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Doresh posted:tokusatsu heroes (because what else are magical boys gonna look like All of them look like Tuxedo Mask. All of them.
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Mar 8, 2016 23:10
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Also note that the 'darker moments' parts of various magical girl shows tend to be because: A. the villains are incarnations of literal despair/hopelessness and/or B. the world is literally going to end or be destroyed if they win. Cardcaptor Sakura is actually fairly unique in that neither is true and the darkness comes from the fact that the loss condition, such as it is, is that everything goes on as it would have had nothing happened, except no one truly and deeply loves the protagonist any more. Which is actually pretty drat creepy, when it is revealed, but fortunately never happens.
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Mar 8, 2016 23:10
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Lynx Winters posted:Because nerds can't just let a thing be earnest. Gritty realism = maturity, and we gotta show everyone that roleplaying brightly-colored schoolgirls can be mature. Someone once said Watchmen gave the comics industry a 15-year-long grimdark hangover. I think Madoka had a similar effect, just for something even more ridiculous than superhero comics.
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Mar 8, 2016 23:13
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Night10194 posted:Are they legitimate heroes who are actually trying to face a dark universe to make things better? If so, yes. Since most of them already grew up on those kinds of shows: Yes. Lynx Winters posted:As long as you don't include a sanity system of any sort, you're off to a good start. The only SAN to be lost is on the side of the Eldritch abominations, because their advanced minds have problems with the concept of moe. senrath posted:All of them look like Tuxedo Mask. All of them. Only with a 50% chance at character creation. The rest look like Kamen Riders or Sentai dudes. Kavak posted:I think Madoka had a similar effect, just for something even more ridiculous than superhero comics. Though Madoka seems to have largely affected fan works like Princess and Magical Burst. It didn't seem to have much of an impact on the juggernaut that is the Precure franchise (though that's a given considering the target audience). Doresh fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Mar 8, 2016 |
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Mar 8, 2016 23:15
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With Princess: the Hopeful, it's not really surprising that it was dark. It was an attempt at creating a Magical Girl fangame for the World of Darkness, which meant there was a push by several of its contributors to make it tonally appropriate for the new World of Darkness, than to emulate the genre of magical girl animated series. It's then rather unsurprising that Sparks is much the same, since it seems like it was created either to be a game divorced from the WoD license or because of some schism between authors over some detail (which happened several times on Princess; for example, whether the tone should be WoD-esque fatalism or about rejecting the WoD-esque fatalism.)
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Mar 8, 2016 23:22
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Madoka has largely affected the fans, because the genre itself is divided into two parts - the part aimed at preteen girls primarily and the part aimed at post-adolescent men primarily. Madoka deeply influenced the latter half, but the former half is the earnest and non-creepy half in the first place, and has been ruled by Precure for a decade. This doesn't appear to be changing any time soon, and Madoka's a drop in the bucket compared to Precure. That said, Madoka's influence on the Western fanbase and fan materials are part of why I hate it deeply, even more than I hate Nanoha, despite it being a much better show. E: Also, magical boys clearly resemble Sinbad from Kaitou Jeanne and the dudes from Pretear. Mors Rattus fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Mar 8, 2016 |
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Mar 8, 2016 23:22
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I'd say a deconstruction is fine by it self, but not if it becomes the standard.LatwPIAT posted:With Princess: the Hopeful, it's not really surprising that it was dark. It was an attempt at creating a Magical Girl fangame for the World of Darkness, which meant there was a push by several of its contributors to make it tonally appropriate for the new World of Darkness, than to emulate the genre of magical girl animated series. It's then rather unsurprising that Sparks is much the same, since it seems like it was created either to be a game divorced from the WoD license or because of some schism between authors over some detail (which happened several times on Princess; for example, whether the tone should be WoD-esque fatalism or about rejecting the WoD-esque fatalism.) I'd say that would've been all the more a reason to make it the one game in the WoD universe filled with love and happiness.
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Mar 8, 2016 23:26
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Mors Rattus posted:Madoka has largely affected the fans, because the genre itself is divided into two parts - the part aimed at preteen girls primarily and the part aimed at post-adolescent men primarily. Madoka deeply influenced the latter half, but the former half is the earnest and non-creepy half in the first place, and has been ruled by Precure for a decade. This doesn't appear to be changing any time soon, and Madoka's a drop in the bucket compared to Precure. Nanoha? I've heard of Madoka, but not Nanoha.
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Mar 8, 2016 23:31
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Nanoha is an older series that is very firmly aimed at the adult market. Its first season aped Cardcaptor Sakura almost shot for shot in its early stuff, and eventually moved away from being about preteen girls to some kind of weird transdimensional magical police thing and like very big lasers. I hate it because I was made to sit through the first season, and the parts that weren't badly trying and failing to be CCS were creepy as gently caress. It's better than a lot of adult-aimed magical girl stuff, but it suffers a lot from creepy fanservice that plagues that part of the genre and it...well, it is nowhere near as good as CCS. Also the production values are awful. It often runs on giant robot show cliches rather than magical girl ones. I understand the compilation movies fix the production value part.
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Mar 8, 2016 23:38
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Mors Rattus posted:I understand the compilation movies fix the production value part. They also multiplied the awful creepy fanservice by a factor of a thousand. Never watch the Nanoha movies.
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Mar 8, 2016 23:40
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It's also got, as I understand it, some very interesting philosophy on the nature of family and loved ones. But it's kind of hard to see that past two seasons of unnecessarily detailed prepubescent transformations.
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Mar 8, 2016 23:47
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I think the big issue is that it seems like there's no reason why you can't do magical girls with a superhero rule set, possibly with some kind of house rule or invoked subsystem to reflect the typical presence of the power of friendship. So you gotta have some kind of selling point, man! Or maybe we need Magical Hero(ine): Now With DeviantArt Magical Girl Pictures.
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Mar 8, 2016 23:48
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Covok posted:Why do Magical Girl TRPGs always always seem to be either grimdark or involve court politics or both? It's because they don't have any young girls in the audience.
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Mar 8, 2016 23:49
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Doresh posted:The only SAN to be lost is on the side of the Eldritch abominations, because their advanced minds have problems with the concept of moe. This is without a doubt the best idea any SAN system has ever had, and I wish to know more.
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Mar 8, 2016 23:56
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I'll admit I've never gotten into either genre, but a game where characters of either gender can be magical "girls" or kamen riders, their choice, would be pretty cool.
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Mar 9, 2016 00:33
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Mors Rattus posted:Nanoha is an older series that is very firmly aimed at the adult market. I had Nanoha recommended me by a friend who I no longer take recommendations from. It's just... dull. I don't even remember most of it. I may have fallen asleep? Mors Rattus posted:E: Also, magical boys clearly resemble Sinbad from Kaitou Jeanne and the dudes from Pretear. There's always the ambiguity of the Sailor Starlights. Evil Mastermind posted:I'll admit I've never gotten into either genre, but a game where characters of either gender can be magical "girls" or kamen riders, their choice, would be pretty cool. Here you go.
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Mar 9, 2016 00:53
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This is all ignoring some historical stuff, of course - battle magical girls date from around the 90s and are the ones with the closest resemblance to toku heroes. Cardcaptor Sakura's a pretty far departure from toku-style stuff, but even more than that, the 80s and before were the home of magical girls who didn't do violence so much as wish-granting. You got stuff like Creamy Mami, where the girl's superpower was 'can turn into an adult' with a few other tricks added along the way to help out friends or get into mischief - and generally that kind of show was about the girl's adult form becoming famous, as with Creamy Mami, which was an idol vehicle. Then you get stuff like Little Witch Doremi which are basically 'girl has magic powers, tries to grant witches with varying degrees of secrecy.' Both of which are magical girl, but would be rather odd to play. The latter kind can fit pretty well into Golden Sky Stories, though. (And can be quite fun to watch - Doremi's cute, but my favorite for this is Princess Comet, which is goofy as poo poo.)
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Mar 9, 2016 00:57
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Kai Tave posted:Also Toon doesn't reek of being someone's fetishbait. The art in Toon Tales gets a little furry-esque (complete with a cameo by some indie press' totally original horse-as-Red-Sonja character, which would make more sense if she didn't show up in an illustration for a Western scene.)
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Mar 9, 2016 01:10
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Night10194 posted:For the Ironclaw review, I had a question: Would people prefer if I went into the nitty gritty of what each Gift and Skill does, full, gameplay wise? It's going to make the Gifts section quite long if I do, but I'm torn because showing off the system and the variety of characters it can build is one of the goals of my review. Would it be better if I just wrote up a couple sample characters or asked for concepts then showed how they could be made in system? Asking for concepts usually gets some good stuff.
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Mar 9, 2016 01:26
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I should have known Ewen would have me covered.
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Mar 9, 2016 01:27
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Lynx Winters posted:As long as you don't include a sanity system of any sort, you're off to a good start. The concept of San could work if it is more like a stress meter. As in spend too long fighting off evil without having a chance to hang out with your friends or go watch a movie or whatever and you start to burn out.
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Mar 9, 2016 01:28
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Nessus posted:I think the big issue is that it seems like there's no reason why you can't do magical girls with a superhero rule set, possibly with some kind of house rule or invoked subsystem to reflect the typical presence of the power of friendship. So you gotta have some kind of selling point, man! Or maybe we need Magical Hero(ine): Now With DeviantArt Magical Girl Pictures. I never liked that argument of "you could also do x with y so why make a game for x!?" It ignores the importance of theme and recognizing a game is more than just stats that measure your character's physical/mystical abilities. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but this is just one of my pet peeves. For example, for a cardcaptor game (since that is the only MG thing I've ever seen), you could do it using FAE where every card had an aspect and stunt that became always true for the character until the end of a scene when a fate point is spent on it. Have them be physical cards players could pass around to each other (with perhaps some difficulty in combat). You could also do a playbook thing to reinforce some of the narrative roles like having a main heroine and supporting cast. That's not including some mechanics to handle friendship and the clear romantic tension in that show. Just some thoughts on how you can push the themes with the mechanics while still having it all be earnest and honest.
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Mar 9, 2016 01:34
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LeSquide posted:Asking for concepts usually gets some good stuff. It'd also let me demonstrate that the creation system supports a ton of variety. So, give me a few swashbuckling or scheming or heroic early modern/renaissance ideas and I'll show how they can be made with IC2e. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Mar 9, 2016 |
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Mar 9, 2016 01:36
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Otter Captain Ahab. Basically the embodiment of the badass picture in the Otter racial entry.
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Mar 9, 2016 01:43
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Hunt11 posted:The concept of San could work if it is more like a stress meter. As in spend too long fighting off evil without having a chance to hang out with your friends or go watch a movie or whatever and you start to burn out. A stress meter is a sanity system. Don't.
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Mar 9, 2016 01:44
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Lynx Winters posted:A stress meter is a sanity system. Don't. Put in a stress meter but when it fills up you're gripped with heroic virtue and resolve because of the terrible evil in front of you and may now use your superest attack. No downsides, only 'This is how close I am to snapping and going EVEN MORE HEROIC.'
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Mar 9, 2016 01:45
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Hunt11 posted:The concept of San could work if it is more like a stress meter. As in spend too long fighting off evil without having a chance to hang out with your friends or go watch a movie or whatever and you start to burn out. Lynx Winters posted:A stress meter is a sanity system. Don't. Night10194 posted:Put in a stress meter but when it fills up you're gripped with heroic virtue and resolve because of the terrible evil in front of you and may now use your superest attack. No downsides, only 'This is how close I am to snapping and going EVEN MORE HEROIC.' 
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Mar 9, 2016 02:10
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But seriously I really want to take those ideas and what Covok said about FAE and make a "magical teens fighting evil with the power of LOVE" game. I mean, I know I won't. But I want to.
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Mar 9, 2016 02:16
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Covok posted:I never liked that argument of "you could also do x with y so why make a game for x!?" It ignores the importance of theme and recognizing a game is more than just stats that measure your character's physical/mystical abilities.
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Mar 9, 2016 02:27
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I would totally play "Meduka Meguca: The Rol Plaeyng Gaem"
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Mar 9, 2016 02:29
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I want to know who's onboard with my vision of a CCG that competes with magic by including five extra cards per pack that can be used for short duration bonuses by being torn up, having stickers on them, or having scratch off sections. I just want a CCG that can be destroyed to win.
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Mar 9, 2016 02:34
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Evil Mastermind posted:See, poo poo like this is why I love you guys/gals. Don't call it a stress meter. Call it the Outrage Meter. When the forces of Darkness have pushed you too far and expect you to break, they are now going to have a Bad Time.
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Mar 9, 2016 02:37
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Night10194 posted:It'd also let me demonstrate that the creation system supports a ton of variety. So, give me a few swashbuckling or scheming or heroic early modern/renaissance ideas and I'll show how they can be made with IC2e. The most obvious possible answers are Constable Judy and Nick the charlatan.
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Mar 9, 2016 02:49
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Mr. Maltose posted:I don't care if it's decades before the reference would make sense, I'll never not be a fan of a literal Wolf of Wall Street. I just adore the image of a giant werewolf playing pretend business man. He should have a bunch of underlings who have to play along on pain of evisceration.
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Mar 9, 2016 02:54
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Evil Mastermind posted:But seriously I really want to take those ideas and what Covok said about FAE and make a "magical teens fighting evil with the power of LOVE" game. Nessus posted:Oh, sure, I just meant like "this may be why the meguca games all wedge in poo poo like gratuitous darkness and courtly political wrangling." That's a good idea for a Card Captor style game though. Half tempted to write up a quick FAE handbook for it. Might do it as a fan thing. I'm not actually that into Magical Girls except for liking Cardcaptor a lot when it used to air on the Kids WB when I was 7.
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Mar 9, 2016 02:55
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Night10194 posted:Don't call it a stress meter. Call it the Outrage Meter. When the forces of Darkness have pushed you too far and expect you to break, they are now going to have a Bad Time. I'm already thinking in my head that this FAE thing would have a seventh approach that depends on your type; magical boys/girls get Compassion, and the tokusatsu action types get Bravery. That's pretty much what your hero type embodies. You can add that stat to rolls when directly fighting the forces of Darkness on top of your normal approach, but you can pass that bonus along to someone else with Create Advantange, or when you're Taken Out instead off you big honkin' attack. Because while compassion and bravery are powerful, when combined they become even stronger, and one isn't as effective without the other.
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Mar 9, 2016 02:58
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i suggest going and watching the original CCS - it's a really good show, and the WB version skipped a huge chunk at the start because they wanted to skip to when Li was introduced, so they could pretend he was the main character. Plus, IIRC, the stuff after the first arc never got brought over, where Sakura makes the cards into Sakura Cards rather than Clow Cards and Clow's reincarnated rear end in a top hat self starts loving with her for shits and giggles.
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Mar 9, 2016 03:00
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Mors Rattus posted:i suggest going and watching the original CCS - it's a really good show, and the WB version skipped a huge chunk at the start because they wanted to skip to when Li was introduced, so they could pretend he was the main character. Plus, IIRC, the stuff after the first arc never got brought over, where Sakura makes the cards into Sakura Cards rather than Clow Cards and Clow's reincarnated rear end in a top hat self starts loving with her for shits and giggles. No, that second part got brought over. I remember the butterfly lion and the risk of the cards going masterless. Though, I did watch it less and less during part 2: the fight with moon angel really felt like the climax.
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Mar 9, 2016 03:04
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Maxwell Lord posted:I just adore the image of a giant werewolf playing pretend business man. quote:He dresses in tailor-made suits designed for his massive frame. His offices are populated by about a dozen corrupted individuals who serve him. They work at desks and function as a typical office. This is part of Skutharka's style: the dog-eat-dog world of business held great appeal for him as soon as he heard about it. He mimics the mannerisms of capitalists - going so far as to pick up phones not in use, speaking into them and laughing the whole way through an imaginary conversation.
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Mar 9, 2016 03:05
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Oh, did it? That's good. (The show's actual ending also involves a movie, as I recall, to cap everything off.) But yeah, definitely worth watching, if only for adorable stuff. Part 2 is less heavy on the action tension, but it has some really solid character stuff in it, and oh my god Tiny Reincarnated Clow is an rear end in a top hat.
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Mar 9, 2016 03:05
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