Star Citizen: Big MoMA's House

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Scruffpuff: Dec 23, 2015; Fidelity. Wait, was I'm working on again?

Tippis posted:

Yeah, it's like every new thing that is revealed, either in gameplay or patch notes or 10ftc or� anywhere, raises the immediate question of �but� this is a solved problem � how can it even be happening in a mature engine (even if it is CryEngine)?!� Every nonsensical non-excuse for lack of design that CRobber comes up with on the spot just reeks of him not having been in the industry for a decade or two, because he keeps trying to solve problems that should no longer exist � not just this far into the development cycle, but this far into the history of computer gaming.

Fundamental issues such as how to design an economy or how to make objects move around (or not move around) or how to interact with the environment and other players. It's all being treated as if no-one has ever even thought about, much less come across, these problems before.

And ok, fair enough, he has been out of the industry for a decade and a half, but even then, a rational person with any kind of interest in the genre would at least be able to realise that there is other stuff out there that can be researched, studied, dissected, copied� but not even that little nugget of realisation seems to have set in. How is it even possible?

His absence from the industry also reveals a very flawed understanding of gaming from his backers as well. Not taking into account the fact that he sucked out loud back then as well, being absent from the industry for that long is complete suicide. If I interviewed a sysadmin whose last experience with PCs was Windows 95, there is no way in hell I would hire that guy - his knowledge is practically useless today (barring some amazing aptitude potential, which Chris sorely lacks). If I want to hire someone to paint a chapel ceiling, I'm not going to hire a 25-year old mechanic whose last drawing was on his mom's fridge 20 years earlier, and was lovely even for a kid's drawing.

Yet that's exactly what the backers did. "Here's a guy who sucked in his prime, failed at nearly everything he's ever done aside from the one lucky hit, has literally been doing gently caress-all for the better part of a decade while the industry moved along at the speed of light, we know for a fact he hasn't kept up with it, and he wants to make a game now, planting his starting flag firmly in the 90s, and willfully ignoring every single lesson learned by hundreds of thousands of people across the world over 10 years. Seems legit - hand this fucker $2500."

There's a similar event happening in the U.S. right now, where you have a large contingent of out-of-touch people who feel they've been ignored, their glory days are in the past, and this messianic figure comes out of nowhere with vague promises of fulfilling some past greatness that never actually existed except in their own minds - where they are all heroes and awesome and respected by default, even if they've never accomplished anything of note in their lives.

Of course I'm referring to Star Citizen...

# ? Mar 15, 2016 19:31

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 18:15

Tippis: Mar 21, 2008; It's yet another day in the wasteland.

Thanks Obama. :colbert:

# ? Mar 15, 2016 19:35

Scruffpuff: Dec 23, 2015; Fidelity. Wait, was I'm working on again?

Tippis posted:

Thanks Obama.

Now I'm picturing an Obama stylized poster of Chris Roberts with the text "No we can't."

# ? Mar 15, 2016 19:39

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013

Scruffpuff posted:

His absence from the industry also reveals a very flawed understanding of gaming from his backers as well. Not taking into account the fact that he sucked out loud back then as well, being absent from the industry for that long is complete suicide. If I interviewed a sysadmin whose last experience with PCs was Windows 95, there is no way in hell I would hire that guy - his knowledge is practically useless today (barring some amazing aptitude potential, which Chris sorely lacks). If I want to hire someone to paint a chapel ceiling, I'm not going to hire a 25-year old mechanic whose last drawing was on his mom's fridge 20 years earlier, and was lovely even for a kid's drawing.

Yet that's exactly what the backers did. "Here's a guy who sucked in his prime, failed at nearly everything he's ever done aside from the one lucky hit, has literally been doing gently caress-all for the better part of a decade while the industry moved along at the speed of light, we know for a fact he hasn't kept up with it, and he wants to make a game now, planting his starting flag firmly in the 90s, and willfully ignoring every single lesson learned by hundreds of thousands of people across the world over 10 years. Seems legit - hand this fucker $2500."

There's a similar event happening in the U.S. right now, where you have a large contingent of out-of-touch people who feel they've been ignored, their glory days are in the past, and this messianic figure comes out of nowhere with vague promises of fulfilling some past greatness that never actually existed except in their own minds - where they are all heroes and awesome and respected by default, even if they've never accomplished anything of note in their lives.

Of course I'm referring to Star Citizen...

Palingenetic ultra-space-cultism?

# ? Mar 15, 2016 19:39

Iglocska: Nov 23, 2015

Scruffpuff posted:

His absence from the industry also reveals a very flawed understanding of gaming from his backers as well. Not taking into account the fact that he sucked out loud back then as well, being absent from the industry for that long is complete suicide. If I interviewed a sysadmin whose last experience with PCs was Windows 95, there is no way in hell I would hire that guy - his knowledge is practically useless today (barring some amazing aptitude potential, which Chris sorely lacks). If I want to hire someone to paint a chapel ceiling, I'm not going to hire a 25-year old mechanic whose last drawing was on his mom's fridge 20 years earlier, and was lovely even for a kid's drawing.

Yet that's exactly what the backers did. "Here's a guy who sucked in his prime, failed at nearly everything he's ever done aside from the one lucky hit, has literally been doing gently caress-all for the better part of a decade while the industry moved along at the speed of light, we know for a fact he hasn't kept up with it, and he wants to make a game now, planting his starting flag firmly in the 90s, and willfully ignoring every single lesson learned by hundreds of thousands of people across the world over 10 years. Seems legit - hand this fucker $2500."

There's a similar event happening in the U.S. right now, where you have a large contingent of out-of-touch people who feel they've been ignored, their glory days are in the past, and this messianic figure comes out of nowhere with vague promises of fulfilling some past greatness that never actually existed except in their own minds - where they are all heroes and awesome and respected by default, even if they've never accomplished anything of note in their lives.

Of course I'm referring to Star Citizen...

To be fair, in his prime he really did make some great games. WC1-4, Privateer, Freelancer (ok this one was great despite him not because of him) is more successful titles than most successful game devs could dream of (Carmack had a total of 6 really successful games and is pretty much THE god of game devleopment).

You are absolutely right though, having a 10 year long break from gaming is a massive red flag.

# ? Mar 15, 2016 19:40

Zteuer: Nov 8, 2009

Renon Vesir posted:

I'm a lurking lurker that always lurks, but this this thread has brought me such joy that I felt compelled to draw a little something for it.

Your typical Star Citizen backer.

I wish it had a narwhale poster in the background.

# ? Mar 15, 2016 19:40

orcinus: Feb 25, 2016; Fun Shoe

Happy Sisyphus posted:

why dont real planes use kb+m controls?

Environmentally unfeasible and unreliable.
Can you stop a mouse from flying in your face when you roll?
Can you rely on a pilot finding the right key in a featureless array of keys under duress?

Unrelated to mouse and keyboard, but there's also the fact joysticks and yokes have been in use pretty much since day one as input.
Changing that in any significant way would meet the same amount of negative response as replacing a wheel in a car with a joystick.

In fact, look at what happened when they've introduced a "dead" immovable joystick with force sensing in F-16s.
They had to go back and add fake, placebo movement range to keep pilots happy.

orcinus fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Mar 15, 2016

# ? Mar 15, 2016 19:40

Tippis: Mar 21, 2008; It's yet another day in the wasteland.

Scruffpuff posted:

Now I'm picturing an Obama stylized poster of Chris Roberts with the text "No we can't."

It'll happen in a page or three.

# ? Mar 15, 2016 19:40

eonwe: Aug 11, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

Ravane posted:

drat, I only went to sleep for five hours and now this thread is being archived like Oswald's personal notes on the JFK assassination.

I'm a little surprised that the redditor said I had been stalking Sandi since april of last year. I literally only sent her two tweets and both were in the last week. But facts aren't a redditor's weapon of choice, I guess.

Being taken seriously as Derek Smart's nephew is something I've been trying to pointlessly achieve since october. I'm so happy.

ahahah holy gently caress

# ? Mar 15, 2016 19:41

DigitalMocking: Jun 8, 2010; Wine is constant proof that God loves us and loves to see us happy.
Benjamin Franklin

orcinus posted:

I just realized I have my entire office packed up in those exact crates. :stonklol:

Evidently I own a lot of lube oil destined for the Fora System.

# ? Mar 15, 2016 19:42

orcinus: Feb 25, 2016; Fun Shoe

darkarchon posted:

I really like how all the ships rotate to the left at any time. Great physics.

It's due to Paarpiolis force.

# ? Mar 15, 2016 19:43

Thoatse: Feb 29, 2016; Lol said the scorpion, lmao

quote:

[PSA] Help deal with trolls and improve your Reddit experience at the same time. self.starcitizen

submitted 3 hours ago * by drizzt_xGrand Admiral

I (like many others) get tired of slogging through the troll comments on this sub-Reddit (which seem to have slowed down recently - Yay mods!), and having to constantly second guess whether a semi-innocent sounding question is just that, or a troll trying to be clever.

As everyone knows, the best way to deal with trolls is to just ignore them, but that's often easier said than done, and I occasionally find myself getting suckered into replying with something snarky, which only exacerbates the problem.

Since I'm super lazy and bothered by the minute inconvenience of having to click a user name to see their karma scores, I wanted to find a web plugin that would put a user's two karma scores directly after their name, so that I could quickly and easily note any (1/-100) and just ignore them and move on.

It seems that there was such a plugin called Reddit Reveal, but it's massively out of date and doesn't appear to work anymore.

Continuing to search revealed a plugin called the "Reddit Enhancement Suite" and holy cow this thing is awesome.

It still doesn't do exactly what I wanted (always showing karma scores by user names) but it does show the karma scores if you mouse over the user name, along with handy buttons such as "+friends" "message" and "ignore." Just click the last one and never see posts from that user again. No more attention = no more troll.

In addition to this, it grants a TON of new functionality for editing posts, allows you to scroll pages infinitely without ever hitting next page again, allows you to preview images and video inline, etc, etc.

If everyone already knew about this plugin and I'm just late to the party, please ignore. :P

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/reddit-enhancement-suite/

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/4aitcv/psa_help_deal_with_trolls_and_improve_your_reddit/

reddit noob discovers res, news at 11

# ? Mar 15, 2016 19:52

Hobold: Jan 10, 2012; I love my Cutlass
I love big stompy mechs
I love my HOTAS
I love to salvage wrecks
I love Star Citizen, and all it's craziness
GOONDEYADA, GOONDEYADA, GOONDEYADA; College Slice

I know its been asked too many times but :effort:

What hotas do you Elite players use? I'm toying with the idea of getting one, as much as I'm toying with the idea of actually playing Elite.

# ? Mar 15, 2016 19:52

Daztek: Jun 2, 2006

Hobold posted:

I know its been asked too many times but

What hotas do you Elite players use? I'm toying with the idea of getting one, as much as I'm toying with the idea of actually playing Elite.

I use a Thrustmaster T-Flight Hotas X Flight Stick, it's really cheap, good quality and a great starter hotas

# ? Mar 15, 2016 19:55

Decrepus: May 21, 2008; In the end, his dominion did not touch a single poster.

Hobold posted:

I'm toying with the idea of getting one, as much as I'm toying with the idea of actually playing Elite.

Are you already married?

# ? Mar 15, 2016 19:56

Yolomon Wayne: Jun 10, 2014; You call it "The Big Bang", but what really happened is; Grimey Drawer

FrankieGoes posted:

Those are the ships that are actually IN SC right now. If you add up all the ones that have been sold, including variants, it's well over 100 for SC IIRC. And there's more on the way.

Oh yes i forgot, we are comparing actually delivered content vs. promised dreams.

# ? Mar 15, 2016 19:57

Berious: Nov 13, 2005

Brazilianpeanutwar posted:

Tell him he's been scammed, do the right thing.

Just be prepared for when he gets really mad and calls you Derek Smart

# ? Mar 15, 2016 19:57

Orcs and Ostriches: Aug 26, 2010; The Great Twist

DigitalMocking posted:

I just realized I have my entire office packed up in those exact crates.

Evidently I own a lot of lube oil destined for the Fora System.

The crates look like they're a pretty good storage container when they're not filled with robo-vagina. They're probably the only one of this guy's good decisions.

# ? Mar 15, 2016 19:57

Tippis: Mar 21, 2008; It's yet another day in the wasteland.

Hobold posted:

I know its been asked too many times but

What hotas do you Elite players use? I'm toying with the idea of getting one, as much as I'm toying with the idea of actually playing Elite.

KB+M and TrackIR, because HOTAS and VR is silly.

_{_{Silly expensive that is}}

# ? Mar 15, 2016 19:59

Thoatse: Feb 29, 2016; Lol said the scorpion, lmao

orcinus posted:

Environmentally unfeasible and unreliable.
Can you stop a mouse from flying in your face when you roll?
Can you rely on a pilot finding the right key in a featureless array of keys under duress?

Unrelated to mouse and keyboard, but there's also the fact joysticks and yokes have been in use pretty much since day one as input.
Changing that in any significant way would meet the same amount of negative response as replacing a wheel in a car with a joystick.

In fact, look at what happened when they've introduced a "dead" immovable joystick with force sensing in F-16s.
They had to go back and add fake, placebo movement range to keep pilots happy.

It's not fake placebo motion, the stick moves +/- a few mm at the tip and even that tiny amount makes all the difference for a humey to be able to *efficiently gauge their inputs. You can do without, but the fatigue and stress of using a static stick is completely avoidable by allowing a tiny amount of displacement for pilots to build preconception.

The good force sensing joysticks replicate this perfectly (FSSB 1-3 TM mods, Ribbstick), however Saitek didn't get the memo or thought they could fake it and made a lovely static stick (X-65f), and because of that it never achieved real popularity. Ironic and sad, because the tiny pittance of displacement needed is so incredibly easy to achieve (mechanically very low hanging fruit) it made no sense for them to go 95% of the way there, only to make those efforts moot.

# ? Mar 15, 2016 20:00

A Neurotic Jew: Feb 17, 2012; by exmarx

Thoatse posted:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/4aitcv/psa_help_deal_with_trolls_and_improve_your_reddit/

reddit noob discovers res, news at 11

I'm convinced this is because of my posts warning newcomers about the red flags surrounding this game. that really pisses people off for some reason.

# ? Mar 15, 2016 20:03

kikkelivelho: Aug 27, 2015

Some of the ship UIs in this game are loving atrocious. Flying the freelancer you have no way of knowing what your or the enemy ship's condition is. You have no way to tell what's going on. Also, your ammo count isn't even in view so if you want to know how much ammo you have left you need to alt free look to your left to check. Excellent design. I also can't tell how damage/health actually works in this stupid thing. Sometimes ships survive for 10 minutes without any problems, sometimes they suddenly explode 10 seconds into a fight.

The FPS and EVA stuff has actually improved since I last played and they're now passable to such a point that I don't really have any critical problems with them. Now if only flying and fighting in a ship was fun. Playing this tech demo makes me angry cause clearly some of the devs have tried to make a game out of this and there are short moments where I'm somewhat enjoying it, but it all falls apart constantly because it's a cobbled together mess of random ideas and designs.

# ? Mar 15, 2016 20:04

trucutru: Jul 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

Thoatse posted:

1) no kinematic feedback

2) kb has no proportional control ability

3) mouse would not work in an environment subject to accelerations without causing unintentional inputs/complete loss of control

4) plane's axes operate in first-order (proportional velocity) control, mice are made for zero-order (direct positioning)

5) paaarp

6) Double dare you to use a mouse when you're clenching your butthole under 6 G's

# ? Mar 15, 2016 20:04

Brazilianpeanutwar: Aug 27, 2015; Spent my walletfull, on a jpeg, desolate, will croberts make a whale of me yet?

Berious posted:

Just be prepared for when he gets really mad and calls you Derek Smart

He'd still be morally right (and also not be derek smart which is *delete as applicable*)

# ? Mar 15, 2016 20:04

darkarchon: Feb 2, 2016; My name is a trolling word

Thoatse posted:

(mechanically very low hanging fruit)

You know what else is mechanically very low hanging fruit?

Only platinum members can see this content

:smuggo:

# ? Mar 15, 2016 20:05

Norefund14days: Feb 2, 2016; NO ONE CAN HEAR YOU PARP IN SPACE.

Not enough catte.

Have two.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

# ? Mar 15, 2016 20:07

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

Hobold posted:

I know its been asked too many times but

What hotas do you Elite players use? I'm toying with the idea of getting one, as much as I'm toying with the idea of actually playing Elite.

X52 Pro and it's been really good, I know there are some quality concerns out there but mine has been cool

# ? Mar 15, 2016 20:10

darkarchon: Feb 2, 2016; My name is a trolling word

I also give you progress of catte

December

Today

# ? Mar 15, 2016 20:10

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

Norefund14days posted:

Not enough catte.

Have two.

god dammit look at these fuckin cats

# ? Mar 15, 2016 20:10

Galarox: Sep 23, 2015; Fun Shoe

Tippis posted:

He was in the Vietnam War, not the French Revolution.

_{Probably Iwo Jima or something}

This is one of the pieces of art I am tinkering with

Not sure if anything will comeof it though

# ? Mar 15, 2016 20:12

orcinus: Feb 25, 2016; Fun Shoe

Thoatse posted:

It's not fake placebo motion, the stick moves +/- a few mm at the tip and even that tiny amount makes all the difference for a humey to be able to *efficiently gauge their inputs. You can do without, but the fatigue and stress of using a static stick is completely avoidable by allowing a tiny amount of displacement for pilots to build preconception.

The good force sensing joysticks replicate this perfectly (FSSB 1-3 TM mods, Ribbstick), however Saitek didn't get the memo or thought they could fake it and made a lovely static stick (X-65f), and because of that it never achieved real popularity. Ironic and sad, because the tiny pittance of displacement needed is so incredibly easy to achieve (mechanically very low hanging fruit) it made no sense for them to go 95% of the way there, only to make those efforts moot.

It is placebo motion because motion itself has 0 effect on control surfaces.
Once you reach the end of movement range, you can continue pushing on it with an increased force and that input will get interpreted as part of the output range.

But never mind that. Have you actually tried X-65F?
It feels �weird� for all of half an hour it takes you to get used to no motion. After that, it's absolutely fine, and in fact, once you unlearn the muscle memory required for movable sticks, let's you do way twitchier and faster corrections. Especially near the deadzone. Try playing a helicopter sim with it, it's a pretty nice match.

Not sure what you've meant by �they could fake it�. Fake what?

# ? Mar 15, 2016 20:14

Sundowner: Apr 10, 2013; not even
jeff goldblum could save me from this nightmare

Thoatse posted:

It's not fake placebo motion, the stick moves +/- a few mm at the tip and even that tiny amount makes all the difference for a humey to be able to *efficiently gauge their inputs. You can do without, but the fatigue and stress of using a static stick is completely avoidable by allowing a tiny amount of displacement for pilots to build preconception.

So if I'm understanding this right, they tried to implement a stick system where it didn't actually physically move but rather the input was how much pressure you pushed/pulled onto the stick? How in the gently caress... why is that better than a traditional stick?

fake edit: i know nothing about fighter jets or really any aircraft stuff.

# ? Mar 15, 2016 20:14

orcinus: Feb 25, 2016; Fun Shoe

Sundowner posted:

So if I'm understanding this right, they tried to implement a stick system where it didn't actually physically move but rather the input was how much pressure you pushed/pulled onto the stick? How in the gently caress... why is that better than a traditional stick?

1) mechanical reliability
2) less user-error prone under heavy Gs
3) faster response

Unfortunately, also very much at odds with decades of pilot training, hence not very well accepted.

# ? Mar 15, 2016 20:16

Galarox: Sep 23, 2015; Fun Shoe

Daztek posted:

Order a hotas or joystick in advance

peter gabriel posted:

Just a DK2 while I wait for the CV1
It is great, totally transforms Elite into something I think is genuinely special. I have a Gear VR as well and it is an awesome bit of hardware but most stuff out for it is pretty much demos at the moment, along with experiences, some of which are cool.

VR makes a lot of games better, driving games especially, but for Elite it totally transforms it in a huge way.

This as well

I have a hotas. I got it for SC. It was poo poo in SC. It's in the cupboard now. I will get it out. Checking out the ones you recommended :pgabz:

Does anyone know if the samsung one (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B016OFYG...X8XT6H3HTPFD0QJ) is any good BTW?

e: to add link

# ? Mar 15, 2016 20:17

flyboi: Oct 13, 2005; agg stop posting; College Slice

ZenMaster posted:

gotta admit looks like he gives a good backrub

i think you meant reach around :quagmire:

# ? Mar 15, 2016 20:18

eonwe: Aug 11, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

cats are good

my cat went up to my wife's collection of records and decided it was a scratching post

she yelled at the cat, and then later on, the cat crawled over to her to apologize

p cute

# ? Mar 15, 2016 20:19

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

Galarox posted:

I have a hotas. I got it for SC. It was poo poo in SC. It's in the cupboard now. I will get it out. Checking out the ones you recommended Does anyone know if the samsung one is any good BTW?

A hotas is poo poo for sc, like complete loving rear end. It is also by far the best controller for sc such are the sheer shitness of everything about it.
The only Samsung controller I have is the pad for the Gear VR, do they make a hotas?

# ? Mar 15, 2016 20:19

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

Eonwe posted:

cats are good

my cat went up to my wife's collection of records and decided it was a scratching post

she yelled at the cat, and then later on, the cat crawled over to her to apologize

p cute

Cat stories are good

# ? Mar 15, 2016 20:20

Ash1138: Sep 29, 2001; Get up, chief. We're just gettin' started.

Viscous Soda posted:

Wow... the station rings keep "popping" into a slightly orientation. You can see a pretty clear example at 2 minutes in.

That is the weirdest drat thing, but so very CIG. Why spin on one axis when you can spin on ALL THE AXISISISISES?!

# ? Mar 15, 2016 20:21

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 18:15

iron buns: Jan 12, 2016

Hobold posted:

I know its been asked too many times but

What hotas do you Elite players use? I'm toying with the idea of getting one, as much as I'm toying with the idea of actually playing Elite.

TM Warthog, Saitek pedals and TrackIR.

# ? Mar 15, 2016 20:21

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