Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Thoatse
Feb 29, 2016

Lol said the scorpion, lmao

Risc1911 posted:




You really need to let this sink in. You unlock the ability to spend more money... /smh

Congratulations, achievement unlocked!



e: janky picture liink

Thoatse fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Mar 17, 2016

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

D_Smart
May 11, 2010

by FactsAreUseless
College Slice

RattiRatto posted:

Not many things make me laugh as this thread, and it always delivers
God the thing of the twitter incident made me truly fall down my chair.
Thanks for being here uncle Derek

I'm also quite amused by all the redditors that see and read this thread as a global effort to destabilize whatever dream they have now.
Reading this place without grasping the overall hilarity and sense of humor which comes out every post must be... well something like reddit i guess

Indeed. Except here on SA, there is no echo-chamber. And we tend to eat our own; just by flipping a switch in some bastard's head.

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/6468930/#Comment_6468930


https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/6460233/#Comment_6460233

A Neurotic Jew
Feb 17, 2012

by exmarx
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15246-Note-From-The-Chairman

quote:

Greetings Citizens,

As you know, I like to use this space to highlight crowd funding efforts that I feel are deserving of your attention. Today, I’d like to point you to a project called Star Traders, currently in the midst of its Kickstarter campaign. Another space game? Yes. And like a lot of the games I love, it’s set in a distant future filled with starships, intergalactic trading and epic heroes. Unlike other projects I’ve written about, though, Star Trades doesn’t’ need an overclocked CPU or the hottest graphics card… because it’s a board game!

Star Traders follows the grand tradition of games like Risk and Solarquest by aiming straight at the heart of good game design: it’s simple to play but frustratingly difficult to master. The game is designed to function at a number of different levels, with the end result being a range of game types that will appeal to every skill level. With the most basic rule set, Star Trader can be enjoyed in an hour by all ages, while using the most complex options can make for the kind of legendary all-night game sessions that define the hobby.

Many of you already know the Star Citizen connection: the game’s creators, David Ladyman and Ryan Archer, have done master-class work in helping create our ‘Verse these past three years. David has been responsible for putting together our brochures, manuals and magazine, and Ryan is the artist behind many of our blueprint images and a lot of what appears in Jump Point (his UEE squadron patches are a particular favorite of mine.) I’ve also had the privilege of working with David on almost every title I did at Origin and on the Wing Commander film (he put together a technical manual published alongside the movie.) You can read more about David and his extensive history making games here.

I mention that connection because I believe it’s a key element of crowd funding: supporting good people. I can tell you from many years of experience that David (and Ryan) will go above and beyond to make their dream a reality, and that they’re true artists: interested in creating something new that others will enjoy. They’ve also scattered some Star Citizen Easter eggs in the game itself… and even asked Sandi and I to appear as characters. Good people, good game design and a desire to make something great. What better combination could there be? I’m eager to get my own copy and I encourage you to check out their video below, visit their project page and consider pledging if you enjoy great board games!

— Chris Roberts

P.S. – Don’t worry, David and Ryan aren’t going anywhere! Their work on Star Citizen happens on a contract basis, and so they’ll continue delivering Jump Point and all the art you’ve come to know. We don’t have any stake in Star Traders, but I know that it’s always best to let creative people pursue their dreams!

D_Smart
May 11, 2010

by FactsAreUseless
College Slice

Beet Wagon posted:

Speaking of, I had an interesting interaction with a redditor named doxxed_by_derek yesterday. He would reply to some dumb thing I said with an argument, and then five minutes after each post would edit his post to be nonsenical clips of text, AND THEN like an hour later went back and edited all his posts to just be links to the same post, and then finally went through and deleted everything. Maybe even his account. :tinfoil:

I wish I had screencapped it, it was amazing.

Actually someone was following that and sent me a FB Messenger link. It was surreal.

Toops
Nov 5, 2015

-find mood stabilizers
-also,

Sundowner posted:

just curious but what's the extent of your game dev/coding ability? i ask mostly because i'm actually interested in it because i want to create my Best Great Space Sim Game but i don't know a lick of coding yet.

I started properly "game dev" coding about a year ago, but I've been a programmer for over a decade. I did work for Sierra doing grunt work back in the late 90's/early 2000's but I didn't learn that much, I was really green. There are particular, ehm, NUANCES to programming for games, but if you have coding experience it's really no different.

I will now share my detailed thoughts, apologies if it's overly geeky.

Game programming tends to be centered around your main "update" loop. At a basic level, if you're running at 60 frames per second, every 1/60th a second the game accepts input and decides how to act on it. For example, the FlightController in SP checks whether the user moved their mouse, and if so, sends the mouse movement to the CalculateRotation method where that mouse movement is translated to flight rotation. Then that rotation is delegated to the ApplyTorque method which, as you can guess, applies torque to the ship's "Rigidbody" physics object.

So this example highlights what I consider the biggest challenge of game development: If you're not careful, game logic will wind up tightly coupled to static objects (ships, asteroids, FPS animation rigs, etc). This is bad because objects tend to change a lot, and there are lots of them. "Objects" in this case are typically made by artists, and they're constantly being updated, modified, refined, etc. The hard part of game programming is writing logic that's agnostic to the object(s) it acts on. This allows your artists and level designers to rapidly iterate without you constantly having to change the logic in kind. The bigger your team, the harder this is to maintain. Great communication in big teams is a necessity.

Along these lines, I've found the need to constantly refactor my code. In Unity, they (unfortunately) teach you to directly reference game objects using the editor "drag and drop" model. Basically instead of the code "finding" the object it wants, they tell you to literally drag the object into the script's variable "field." While this is really fast and seemingly convenient, you can wind up with spaghetti code. Change a variable name and forget to re-drag the object to the variable field, and you get null pointers all over.

I decided in a previous game (that I never finished) to use a message bus whenever possible. This allows objects to "subscribe" to the types of messages it cares about, and other objects can "produce" those message types. Basically, instead of the FlightController sending debug info directly to the debug "UI" object, and anyone else who needs it, the FC just plops "DebugInfo" messages on the message bus, and since the UI controller subscribes to it, it just updates the debug info indirectly. This de-couples the FC and DebugInfo UI, and allows me to change things in one place instead of all N places that read debug info.

So you have to have good design rules, and build a flexible architecture, just like with any program. This is my main criticism of CIG.. I can tell they have tightly-coupled code/config/objects, and this (imo) is why they take so long to do anything, why there's no game emerging, and why they're pretty deeply hosed.

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006

Enjoy every sandwich.

Smellrose
KFC Nashville Hot Chicken

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard


https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/6468917/#Comment_6468917

alf_pogs
Feb 15, 2012



every line of that letter from chris roberts is fantastic

also lol at all the mentions of "good game design" like star citizen isn't a broken wank mash

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006

Enjoy every sandwich.

Smellrose
KFC Nashville Hot Chicken

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006

Enjoy every sandwich.

Smellrose
Wait, which thread is this?

Ash1138
Sep 29, 2001

Get up, chief. We're just gettin' started.

pusher42 more like pushing 42 so forget about breaking into hollywood am i rite

WhiskeyWhiskers
Oct 14, 2013


You know I still don't quite understand why they gave Sandi the callsign 'Pusher.' Does her character sling space meth to the other pilots so they can stay alert on long patrols? Or is it actually just a joke that she's VP of marketing and sells Jpegs to addicts?

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

:lesnick: C-Bangin' it :lesnick:

Risc1911 posted:

The most hilarious part is that it's not a complete package at all and you get the privilege to spend more on a Javelin that you "unlock" by buying this package:


You really need to let this sink in. You unlock the ability to spend more money... /smh

There really is a level of disconnect with this poo poo.

Most kickstarters have "hey, toss us $20, get the game." Then it sorta ramps up to the $125-$250 stuff where you are getting jackets, posters, shirts, who knows what else.

Then they might throw in the 0/5 available at around the $1K mark for naming rights or whatever. Perhaps a $5K 0/2 to meet the devs for dinner, a day together, they'll get you there in the first 48. In other words, they'll blow you at this level.

But SC...poo poo, 15K buys you the right to spend another 2.5K.

Madoff couldn't have pulled this one off.

Parallelwoody
Apr 10, 2008


Should build a module for solar plebian called parp marine that's an arena shooter of Chilldanklis vs Stimpire commandos. What's the engine for SP? Maybe I'll start futzing around with teaching myself game development so redditors will stop owning me with sick logic burns.

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard


https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/6453006/#Comment_6453006

Daztek
Jun 2, 2006



WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

You know I still don't quite understand why they gave Sandi the callsign 'Pusher.' Does her character sling space meth to the other pilots so they can stay alert on long patrols? Or is it actually just a joke that she's VP of marketing and sells Jpegs to addicts?

When you're about to defeat the big bad guy she'll push you out of the way and steal your valor in a 35 minute cutscene

Dandywalken
Feb 11, 2014

See ya in the 'verse ;)

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

Dandywalken posted:

See ya in the 'verse ;)

CU in the V.

Daztek
Jun 2, 2006



Toops posted:

I started properly "game dev" coding about a year ago, but I've been a programmer for over a decade. I did work for Sierra doing grunt work back in the late 90's/early 2000's but I didn't learn that much, I was really green. There are particular, ehm, NUANCES to programming for games, but if you have coding experience it's really no different.

I will now share my detailed thoughts, apologies if it's overly geeky.

Game programming tends to be centered around your main "update" loop. At a basic level, if you're running at 60 frames per second, every 1/60th a second the game accepts input and decides how to act on it. For example, the FlightController in SP checks whether the user moved their mouse, and if so, sends the mouse movement to the CalculateRotation method where that mouse movement is translated to flight rotation. Then that rotation is delegated to the ApplyTorque method which, as you can guess, applies torque to the ship's "Rigidbody" physics object.

So this example highlights what I consider the biggest challenge of game development: If you're not careful, game logic will wind up tightly coupled to static objects (ships, asteroids, FPS animation rigs, etc). This is bad because objects tend to change a lot, and there are lots of them. "Objects" in this case are typically made by artists, and they're constantly being updated, modified, refined, etc. The hard part of game programming is writing logic that's agnostic to the object(s) it acts on. This allows your artists and level designers to rapidly iterate without you constantly having to change the logic in kind. The bigger your team, the harder this is to maintain. Great communication in big teams is a necessity.

Along these lines, I've found the need to constantly refactor my code. In Unity, they (unfortunately) teach you to directly reference game objects using the editor "drag and drop" model. Basically instead of the code "finding" the object it wants, they tell you to literally drag the object into the script's variable "field." While this is really fast and seemingly convenient, you can wind up with spaghetti code. Change a variable name and forget to re-drag the object to the variable field, and you get null pointers all over.

I decided in a previous game (that I never finished) to use a message bus whenever possible. This allows objects to "subscribe" to the types of messages it cares about, and other objects can "produce" those message types. Basically, instead of the FlightController sending debug info directly to the debug "UI" object, and anyone else who needs it, the FC just plops "DebugInfo" messages on the message bus, and since the UI controller subscribes to it, it just updates the debug info indirectly. This de-couples the FC and DebugInfo UI, and allows me to change things in one place instead of all N places that read debug info.

So you have to have good design rules, and build a flexible architecture, just like with any program. This is my main criticism of CIG.. I can tell they have tightly-coupled code/config/objects, and this (imo) is why they take so long to do anything, why there's no game emerging, and why they're pretty deeply hosed.

Do you have a repo somewhere or is unity still terrible about those things? I like messing around with stuff

Thoatse
Feb 29, 2016

Lol said the scorpion, lmao

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

Does her character sling space meth to the other pilots so they can stay alert on long patrols? Or is it actually just a joke that she's VP of marketing and sells Jpegs to addicts?

Yes.

Toops
Nov 5, 2015

-find mood stabilizers
-also,

Ravane posted:

What's the difference between C++ and C#? I only need Python for using an electron microscope or really any other equipment.

C# and C++ are both strongly typed languages, so that'll take some adjustment if you're only used to Python. Python is an "interpreted" language (compiled "just in time" by the host machine), C# and C++ are compiled, with differences that are probably not worth mentioning here.

The big difference is C++ is faster, and "closer to the metal" (a term I feel like I invented, but probably didn't). C++ gives you deeper control over how memory is allocated/dereferenced, deeper control using "pointers." I've found this makes C++ a more "difficult" to learn but ultimately more "powerful" language. I haven't written a line of C++ in a long rear end time, but it's something I want to dig deeper into. Some day I'd like to write my own engine from scratch, as an exercise.

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/6451920/#Comment_6451920


https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/6454320/#Comment_6454320

Toops
Nov 5, 2015

-find mood stabilizers
-also,

Ravane posted:

At least it works and is great for phone VR (of which there is not much). But it does it's job and doesn't require the user to pay more than 5 bucks. The same can't be said for star citizen. :(


I hear ya, Java sucks. Python is incredible, the language is hella easy to understand but has enough complexity to it and enough libraries that it's incredibly useful. I prefer doing statistical analysis in it over Matlab and R simply because of the simple interface. On the other hand, it's processing speed can be really slow for anything science-y that takes a while (iteration, etc).

Alternatively, there's Julia which I've started learning that has C++ level of processing speed and is great for statistical analysis. Though the libraries are low, so you'd need to be able to create your own libraries sometimes.

My favorite language for everyday programming? Ruby.

Yeah, I said it.

Toops
Nov 5, 2015

-find mood stabilizers
-also,

omg :five:

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.


It's shock-full of misinformation, deliberate falsehoods, and trivially checked facts that it manages to get wrong…

…so yeah, sure. It would probably be one of the more accurate stickies in the entire brown sea.

Madcosby
Mar 4, 2003

by FactsAreUseless

This is a goon or something, right?

holy poo poo

the government needs to step in. Protect these people from themselves. Chris reads poo poo like this on a daily basis and just loving scams these people

Daztek
Jun 2, 2006



Madcosby posted:

This is a goon or something, right?

holy poo poo

the government needs to step in. Protect these people from themselves. Chris reads poo poo like this on a daily basis and just loving scams these people

I doubt CR goes anywhere near the forums these days

Madcosby
Mar 4, 2003

by FactsAreUseless

Tippis posted:

It's shock-full of misinformation, deliberate falsehoods, and trivially checked facts that it manages to get wrong…

…so yeah, sure. It would probably be one of the more accurate stickies in the entire brown sea.

gently caress you diabolo was awesome

Toops
Nov 5, 2015

-find mood stabilizers
-also,

Daztek posted:

Do you have a repo somewhere or is unity still terrible about those things? I like messing around with stuff

I do have a "sandbox" repo that I (said I would) update weekly, so people can poke around with it. I'll PM it to you. If you emailed me, email me again with your SA user name, I'm having trouble linking emails to the SA person.

Toops
Nov 5, 2015

-find mood stabilizers
-also,

Parallelwoody posted:

Should build a module for solar plebian called parp marine that's an arena shooter of Chilldanklis vs Stimpire commandos. What's the engine for SP? Maybe I'll start futzing around with teaching myself game development so redditors will stop owning me with sick logic burns.

Unity. PM me and I'll point you to the weekly sandbox repo. You'll need to set up git, a bitbucket account, and install Unity, but I can send you a link that walks you through it.

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004
Exciting Lemon



We now know more about gameplay in Star Traders than we ever have in Star Citizen.

kingcom
Jun 23, 2012

Toops posted:

My favorite language for everyday programming? Ruby.

Yeah, I said it.

lol just loving lol. Are you a rear admiral backer too???

Sundowner
Apr 10, 2013

not even
jeff goldblum could save me from this nightmare

TacticalNecromancy posted:

That's some excellent advice there, thank you. I thought I'd give it another shot while considering it:

https://soundcloud.com/user-157864998/compy-v-2/s-W5VZW

If nothing else, it's definitely louder.

much better!

Toops posted:

I started properly "game dev" coding about a year ago, but I've been a programmer for over a decade. I did work for Sierra doing grunt work back in the late 90's/early 2000's but I didn't learn that much, I was really green. There are particular, ehm, NUANCES to programming for games, but if you have coding experience it's really no different.

I will now share my detailed thoughts, apologies if it's overly geeky.

Game programming tends to be centered around your main "update" loop. At a basic level, if you're running at 60 frames per second, every 1/60th a second the game accepts input and decides how to act on it. For example, the FlightController in SP checks whether the user moved their mouse, and if so, sends the mouse movement to the CalculateRotation method where that mouse movement is translated to flight rotation. Then that rotation is delegated to the ApplyTorque method which, as you can guess, applies torque to the ship's "Rigidbody" physics object.

So this example highlights what I consider the biggest challenge of game development: If you're not careful, game logic will wind up tightly coupled to static objects (ships, asteroids, FPS animation rigs, etc). This is bad because objects tend to change a lot, and there are lots of them. "Objects" in this case are typically made by artists, and they're constantly being updated, modified, refined, etc. The hard part of game programming is writing logic that's agnostic to the object(s) it acts on. This allows your artists and level designers to rapidly iterate without you constantly having to change the logic in kind. The bigger your team, the harder this is to maintain. Great communication in big teams is a necessity.

Along these lines, I've found the need to constantly refactor my code. In Unity, they (unfortunately) teach you to directly reference game objects using the editor "drag and drop" model. Basically instead of the code "finding" the object it wants, they tell you to literally drag the object into the script's variable "field." While this is really fast and seemingly convenient, you can wind up with spaghetti code. Change a variable name and forget to re-drag the object to the variable field, and you get null pointers all over.

I decided in a previous game (that I never finished) to use a message bus whenever possible. This allows objects to "subscribe" to the types of messages it cares about, and other objects can "produce" those message types. Basically, instead of the FlightController sending debug info directly to the debug "UI" object, and anyone else who needs it, the FC just plops "DebugInfo" messages on the message bus, and since the UI controller subscribes to it, it just updates the debug info indirectly. This de-couples the FC and DebugInfo UI, and allows me to change things in one place instead of all N places that read debug info.

So you have to have good design rules, and build a flexible architecture, just like with any program. This is my main criticism of CIG.. I can tell they have tightly-coupled code/config/objects, and this (imo) is why they take so long to do anything, why there's no game emerging, and why they're pretty deeply hosed.

that's a cool insight. i actually sat about 2/5ths of a computing course and learned... i think C#? that part of my life is a blur because it was so miserable (the course that is) and i dropped out in short order so i didn't really learn anything so i'd be coming at this as a complete newbie.

i like the idea of Unreal having the more visual based "programming" but i know for a fact this would be problematic if you learned that way because not only would you be tied to their system but you wouldn't be learning what the code is actually doing.

i'm bad for wanting instant gratification on everything so the slow process of learning code is daunting, especially as someone like me whos a fuckin artsy twat who sings and writes sad acoustic songs and makes dramatic black and white short films. i'm not really built to learn and create that way, i'm a very visual person i think.

i am literally ideasguy.

A Neurotic Jew
Feb 17, 2012

by exmarx
Hey Derek, did you notice how Sandi went with the name "pusher42"? Perhaps you are right about it being used so much because its her favorite number instead of a Hitchhiker's reference. v weird.

Ravane
Oct 23, 2010

by LadyAmbien

D_Smart posted:

Ah yeah, it was hilarious. In truth, I only figured out last night, that's what had happened after I went back - and much to my chagrin - looked at Travane's poo poo-posting.

He's doing the /r/DerekSmart thing where he doesn't use my name, but uses something vaguely similar or some kind of terrible portmantaeu, and I can't tell if this is him being serious or smugly reverse trolling me again. :tinfoil:

Ravane fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Mar 17, 2016

Ghostlight
Sep 25, 2009

maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me



WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

You know I still don't quite understand why they gave Sandi the callsign 'Pusher.' Does her character sling space meth to the other pilots so they can stay alert on long patrols? Or is it actually just a joke that she's VP of marketing and sells Jpegs to addicts?
She drives the space bulldozer.

Ravane
Oct 23, 2010

by LadyAmbien

Toops posted:

My favorite language for everyday programming? Ruby.

Yeah, I said it.

Everyday programming, lol. I would die.

A Neurotic Jew
Feb 17, 2012

by exmarx
Bugsmashers up, godspeed to those of you who can sit through this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_aBGl0nvnU

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Xaerael
Aug 25, 2010

Marching Powder is objectively the worst poster known. He also needs to learn how a keyboard works.

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

You know I still don't quite understand why they gave Sandi the callsign 'Pusher.' Does her character sling space meth to the other pilots so they can stay alert on long patrols? Or is it actually just a joke that she's VP of marketing and sells Jpegs to addicts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_t2HDFM4nQ

  • Locked thread