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The real problem with estates is that they overwrite autonomy, or at least that's what I've been told by people circumventing the administrative system I've set up in my mod by handing over high tax provinces to the clergy and so on. Actually, that's probably more an issue with the autonomy system though, which should really be a malus to every single thing a province grants before any other bonuses/maluses are applied. That is, the malus should be multiplicative, where the rest are additive. It's actually quite strange to me that this isn't how it works already, since it seems by far the most intuitive way for it to work.
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Mar 20, 2016 10:06
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The real problem with estates is that they overwrite autonomy, or at least that's what I've been told by people circumventing the administrative system I've set up in my mod by handing over high tax provinces to the clergy and so on. That's actually not a problem but a feature. Estates set the minimum authority to 25% but at the same time the autonomy of that province is ignored when calculating their corresponding value (e.g. nobility = manpower, burghers = tradepower).
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Mar 20, 2016 10:10
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GaussianCopula posted:That's actually not a problem but a feature. Estates set the minimum authority to 25% but at the same time the autonomy of that province is ignored when calculating their corresponding value (e.g. nobility = manpower, burghers = tradepower).
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Mar 20, 2016 10:33
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Yeah, that part makes sense, since if you're effectively handing the entire province over to the nobility (to the exclusion of the clergy and burghers) you should get more of the stuff the nobility grants (manpower) and less of the stuff the clergy and burghers grant (taxes and trade).
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Mar 20, 2016 10:35
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A Buttery Pastry posted:That's a petty inflexible feature though, that directly undermines another. Given that Mare Nostrum is going to mean a bunch of territory could end up with a minimum autonomy of 75%, the minimum autonomy of 25% isn't going to matter either, but being able to get around that 75% malus for one of the categories certainly will. You can't give overseas provinces to estates.
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Mar 20, 2016 10:37
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Gort posted:Yeah, that part makes sense, since if you're effectively handing the entire province over to the nobility (to the exclusion of the clergy and burghers) you should get more of the stuff the nobility grants (manpower) and less of the stuff the clergy and burghers grant (taxes and trade). GaussianCopula posted:You can't give overseas provinces to estates.
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Mar 20, 2016 10:54
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Autonomy implies that you don't actually have full authority in the province in question, meaning you wouldn't be able to hand over the entire province to a single faction. Which is why the other factions aren't entirely eliminated from the province. Their effect is limited to the normal autonomy rating, with a floor of 25%.
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Mar 20, 2016 10:58
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Gort posted:Which is why the other factions aren't entirely eliminated from the province. Their effect is limited to the normal autonomy rating, with a floor of 25%.
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Mar 20, 2016 11:08
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Being able to get 100% of the manpower/tax/trade power out of a province with autonomy still implies that the estate in question is extending its authority beyond its own borders and into the lands of other groups. Sorry, I'm lost. Is this a problem?
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Mar 20, 2016 11:11
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Actually, that's probably more an issue with the autonomy system though, which should really be a malus to every single thing a province grants before any other bonuses/maluses are applied. That is, the malus should be multiplicative, where the rest are additive. It's actually quite strange to me that this isn't how it works already, since it seems by far the most intuitive way for it to work. That is how autonomy works. It was a change with I believe 1.17.
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Mar 20, 2016 11:23
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I haven't played EU4 with estates at all. What's the new poo poo to look out for if I wanna do a random new world as Denmark?
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Mar 20, 2016 11:28
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With the Random New World, you should be fully prepared for the possibility that New World trade might not come towards your home trade node at all.
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Mar 20, 2016 11:39
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Gort posted:Sorry, I'm lost. Is this a problem? Come to think of it, the source of the (as I see it) problem is probably that the two features are kinda modelling the same thing, in different ways. Like, what is autonomy but local estates running poo poo rather than a place being directly governed by the crown? I'm not sure I know an elegant way to combine the two though, but from a realism perspective it would make sense to basically replace autonomy with an estate system entirely. So like, you'd have a Crown Estate, Noble Estate, Clergy Estate, and Burgher Estate (or whatever estates are applicable for your country), all of which together would total 100%. Crown Estates would give you full standard benefits from the province values, while the relative value of manpower/tax/trade power under control of the other estates would increase their influence but not grant you any direct benefit in the province. YF-23 posted:That is how autonomy works. It was a change with I believe 1.17.
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Mar 20, 2016 11:48
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A Buttery Pastry posted:But that's post-Mare Nostrum? In any case, that doesn't seem to be the case for estates at least. 1.16 was the Cossacks release, 1.17 was the major balancing patch after that. Mare Nostrum will be 1.18.
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Mar 20, 2016 11:53
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A Buttery Pastry posted:It's not really consistent with the autonomy system, where reducing autonomy pisses people off, aside from the fact that it weakens the autonomy system/makes it inconsistent as a source of balance. In my mind estates are not local institutions but the organized representatives of their class. Giving them authority over a province guarantees you that the local representatives cooperate fully with you, at the expense of everything else.
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Mar 20, 2016 12:01
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YF-23 posted:1.16 was the Cossacks release, 1.17 was the major balancing patch after that. Mare Nostrum will be 1.18. GaussianCopula posted:In my mind estates are not local institutions but the organized representatives of their class. Giving them authority over a province guarantees you that the local representatives cooperate fully with you, at the expense of everything else.
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Mar 20, 2016 12:50
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A Buttery Pastry posted:As far as I know, those were and will be 1.14, 1.15, and 1.16. poo poo you're right. I dunno what got me thinking 1.17 was the latest one. Amend what I said to say 1.15 then! As for estates in theory, I'd treat it as the granting of extra privileges and land to those estates in the specific provinces. So in nobility estates the crown doesn't tax the feudal lords in the province as much and tends to make judicial rulings to their favour over laymen, in burger estates it abolishes monopoly rights or customs taxes, in clergy estate provinces it elevates the importance of ecclesiastical law or grants more land to the church and so on.
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Mar 20, 2016 13:00
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A Buttery Pastry posted:As far as I know, those were and will be 1.14, 1.15, and 1.16. Estates are good but its probably a toe over the line of too much things to do in a 400 year long game. They also expose how garbage some of the at a glance data modes are at communicating important sized differences between provinces and lacking distinctions between modified and base values.
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Mar 20, 2016 13:28
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Going by these posts, I am not regretting my decision not to buy any EUIV expansions. Even without them, it's become a Frankenstein game (though still a really good one).
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Mar 20, 2016 13:35
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Phlegmish posted:Going by these posts, I am not regretting my decision not to buy any EUIV expansions. Even without them, it's become a Frankenstein game (though still a really good one). This has become a problem since they moved to their new dlc model with (I guess) CK2 - the games become these disjointed, lumpy messes that feel very incoherent and unwieldy after a few major content additions. No point complaining about it because it's probably where they make most of their money and it isn't going to change, but personally I think the old expansion pack model of fewer but larger and more coherent additions was better from a gameplay perspective, and probably better value for money for the player.
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Mar 20, 2016 13:43
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I wish the minimum percentage of provinces given to estates didn't exist (and that there were more than just the usual Burghers / Nobility / Clergy estates). Feels like I'm intentionally gimping my country.
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Mar 20, 2016 13:51
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Darkrenown posted:There's a sale on our webshop this weekend: Aww, I wanted to buy the CK2 mousepad since it was just €3.59, but even the cheapest shipping option to Norway triples the total cost. 
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Mar 20, 2016 14:50
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Long shot but I'm trying out Warlock2 with the big fan-expansion pack and I'm getting some weird texture seams: It's worst around the spinning Selected Plane animation in the lower right. But you can also see it on the UI at the top. There's also a lot of issues with icons not looking clean, and fonts being blurry unless I turn off AA in game. I have no idea if this is a bug with the Renaissance mod or not because if I try to disable it the game just crashes 
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Mar 20, 2016 20:23
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I happened to be skimming through old documents for reasons on my computer and I found the NDA I signed with regards to East vs. West. It expired last month. So if anyone still had interest in the development of EvW, stories, or questions, just ask. It's been a very long time, and I've had a lot happen in my life since. I don't have anything but memories at this point, and keep in mind all I did was work on ministers...and eventually sorta lead that department towards the end. I'll start off by saying I wouldn't have worked on it if I thought it would have been crap, I had ample chances to jump ship. Refining it definitely needed, but back then Paradox still had shaky releases. I didn't agree with all decisions on the game but they weren't mine to make. I still like paradox and support them as a company. I do not hold any conspiracies regarding paradox and using EvW ideas in other games. Can't say the same for teammates though. Bel Monte fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Mar 20, 2016 |
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Mar 20, 2016 21:28
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Were they actually going to include all those ridiculous fan-made ministers and was there controversy about that within the team?
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Mar 20, 2016 21:29
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Huh, I thought that expired next year. Was the cancellation a surprise and was Paradox genuine about releasing the game in early access or whatever before Steam said no? Who was behind the focus on straits and why did they ever think that deserved a dev diary?
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Mar 20, 2016 21:38
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What sort of discussions were there around what seems like the central dilemma of EvW-- the adaption of a game meant to model a huge WW2 between great powers into a game of Cold War politics?
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Mar 20, 2016 21:40
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Chief Savage Man posted:Were they actually going to include all those ridiculous fan-made ministers and was there controversy about that within the team? Not exactly. Any of the weirder ones got the lowest of the low priority for the game to pick them as an option. You had to assasinate a lot of people to get some of the fan-made ones for certain countries. I think when I finished one country, for a particular ideology you had to kill like 20 people to get a fan made one. So, all fan-made ministers took a second seat to historical/real people. If it was outright awful, it never made it in or was scheduled to be removed (I had a LOT on my plate by the time we did fan-made entries). Yes, we/I quietly dumped certain fan-ministers if they didn't win. We voted based on how well written descriptions were along with any extras like photos. Longer stories wasn't better. Oh god the Mary Sue stories I had to read... Very few photos made it in to the game too. I was in charge of those, and I made an effort to age the photo make it fit in the game more seamlessly. More so than slapping a black and white filter over it. If I couldn't, they weren't going to get in. Lots of controversy though initially. Everyone kinda calmed down, especially those not in the ministers team, after that whole process was explained. Oh, yeah, THAT ONE minister everyone cringed over? The "Nazi" "german" in Soviet uniform? He wasn't going to make final release. We all disliked it.
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Mar 20, 2016 21:41
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Morholt posted:I like that it's just simple enough that you can reasonably micromanage everything by yourself, and it has enough granularity that every decision becomes important. The game really starts to shine on Normal difficulty and above, since you have more scarcity leading to more interesting decisions each turn. On the highest difficulty you do need to rely on imports a lot more to super-charge your industry and that can be a bit micromanagey.
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Mar 20, 2016 21:50
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Kavak posted:Huh, I thought that expired next year. Mine says the obligations of the agreement expire after three years. I signed it in Feb, 2013. Some people on the team expected a cancellation, but others were hopeful Paradox was going to step in and whip it into shape. It didn't have that much further to go I thought. The cancellation was surprising either way, I recall waking up to check messages from the team only to read about everyone needing a drink. I wasn't in charge of those, but I recall we needed to delay certain topics. I'm not entirely sure why, but we needed filler. Empress Theonora posted:What sort of discussions were there around what seems like the central dilemma of EvW-- the adaption of a game meant to model a huge WW2 between great powers into a game of Cold War politics? That was probably before I came in. At the point where I came into the team, most of the discussions were over refining what was in the plan or already there. For example, before I came in we had no system in place to prioritize ministers. So the UK might allow people to change which monarch is the Head of State on the fly, back and forth. We locked that ability out too, while I worked there. I recall lots of discussion over whether or not to model fallout in great detail and such, but plenty of the team liked and I personally pushed for the Shadow President approach. It just wasn't thought to be fun to be forced to quit a game because nuclear winter kills everything. edit: I have work, but I'll keep answering questions when I can!
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Mar 20, 2016 21:53
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Bel Monte posted:Oh, yeah, THAT ONE minister everyone cringed over? The "Nazi" "german" in Soviet uniform? wait what fakeedit: this is going to be even worse than I am imagining, isn't it?
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Mar 20, 2016 22:05
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What was the feedback you guys were getting from whomever was allowed to touch it? Did people like it?
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Mar 20, 2016 22:20
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Bel Monte posted:Some people on the team expected a cancellation, but others were hopeful Paradox was going to step in and whip it into shape. It didn't have that much further to go I thought. I'm going to have to seriously disagree. IIRC a lot of critical things weren't that detailed, like diplomacy and elections, and things like asymmetrical and nuclear warfare weren't in there at all, so I think it had a lot further to go than that. You also had things that made no sense at all, like elections for leadership of NATO that could put Italy or Belgium in charge of the entire alliance. Paradox weren't up for developing it for another year or more, and it simply wasn't finished enough to whip into shape. I don't think they should ever have let it get to that state, but they did what they had to do in the end. Keep in mind that this was a year after CK II, the first truly solid Paradox release, and they didn't want to lose their new reputation by releasing something that was going to require several expansions to reach quality.
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Mar 20, 2016 22:27
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GSD posted:wait what That's I believe when EvW became the laughing stock it is on this forum. And yes. It would only have been worse if he wore a fedora. Koesj posted:What was the feedback you guys were getting from whomever was allowed to touch it? Did people like it? Not many got to play it. Early on, I heard the folks at paradox were pleased with what was there, but were pretty much always disappointed in the progress. I don't think I saw what any beta testers thought about it. I played it a few times to test things. But play is probably the wrong word. Certain things were turned off while people worked on major stuff and wanted people to report of system XYZ did this or that. I recall one person (keep in mind it was in alpha) regularly testing the AI was able to stomp all over China because the soldiers kept pacing between the borders of all of mainland China. >_> That got fixed but then we had trouble where Commie China was no match for a human player Nat China
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Mar 20, 2016 22:29
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Bel Monte posted:That's I believe when EvW became the laughing stock it is on this forum. And yes. It would only have been worse if he wore a fedora. What got me about the game is that it didn't feel like it had much of a design direction at all. It didn't seem to be "about" anything at all, it just had a bunch of different things going everywhere.
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Mar 20, 2016 22:30
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Wasn't one of the successful entries some Communism-obsessed teenager one goon knew IRL? Or did that one mercifully get rejected?
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Mar 20, 2016 22:33
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Just redownloaded Victoria 2, which mods have been updated to work with the beta patch from December? I think when I last played Vicky 2 I went with New Nations Mod - basically, I just want something with more countries, more events, and tweaks, rather than NWO or a mod that adds 20 more market goods. edit: 
The Narrator fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Mar 21, 2016 |
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Mar 21, 2016 02:42
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I can't wait til they remake Victoria with Stellaris-style pops and I can move my Jews to harvest industry-mana in the Rhineland.
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Mar 21, 2016 03:04
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Kavak posted:Wasn't one of the successful entries some Communism-obsessed teenager one goon knew IRL? Or did that one mercifully get rejected? iirc our very our Gorgo Primus won with a self-entry as a Spanish minister.
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Mar 21, 2016 04:32
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I think Patter Song got in as well.
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Mar 21, 2016 04:40
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