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I might be remembering it wrong but with the Karen stuff, didn't her conversation with Wesley imply that this wasn't the first time she shot/killed someone?Ugly In The Morning posted:They really should have split this season up into 4 episode mini seasons released monthly. I think I would have enjoyed the Elektra stuff more if it wasn't directly after those first four fantastic punisher episodes. 4 episode Punisher arc, 4 episode Elektra and then a 5 or 6 episode Hand finale would have done wonders. Looking back, I think the problem with the pacing only becomes more noticeable since you're able to binge through this stuff and might not have been as noticeable if you were watching it one a week. You stay up late for that amazing first 4 episodes but then the others don't really come that close. Harlock posted:I am just throwing a dart here but I think the future series schedule probably looks something like this: I can't imagine a Jessica Jones coming before Defenders. I mean, where do you go after the first season and the Purple Man?
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Mar 21, 2016 22:54
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I loved the big hole ninja scene and the hospital ninja scene. They really did a good job of ramping up the tension and getting me to feel like anything could happen at this point. It didn't feel disjointed from the rest of the series because we did spend time building up to these confrontations. Like...we meet Elektra, she tells us the Yakuza is still a problem, then we see the Yakuza escalating their efforts, then we keep adding more and more layers to this problem until we get to the whole situation with the Chaste and the Hand, which was already in the first season anyway. I feel like it really does come down to how used you are to the cross-genre narrative style of comic books and how willing you are to accept very different stories in the same overall stories. I remember a lot of people had the same problem with Arrow back in the day when they started introducing more fantastical elements, with these very blunt limits about what kinds of fantastical things are okay and what kinds aren't okay, and at the end it just seemed to come down to whether you were able to cognitively accept the grounded and the fantastical in the same universe.
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Mar 21, 2016 22:57
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Xealot posted:I just hope they don't feel held to NYC as a location, because they could send him anywhere. The Punisher in Baltimore Punisher season one is also The Wire season six
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Mar 21, 2016 22:57
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Kegslayer posted:I can't imagine a Jessica Jones coming before Defenders. I mean, where do you go after the first season and the Purple Man? It will be as good as the rest of JJ s1 that didn't have the Purple Man!
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Mar 21, 2016 23:08
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Eau de MacGowan posted:Why did Wilson Fisk, after stating that the Punisher is superb at murder and that he knows the Punisher is pissed off at him for trying to get him killed and knowing that the Punisher holds grudges, release the Punisher??? Why would Wilson Fisk, after learning how superb the Punisher is at murder and earning himself a grudge, keep the Punisher in the same prison as him? Fisk controls his environment, and stated that he intends to serve his own sentence so he can be a free man upon release. Why risk Frank either killing Fisk inside or telling an unbought guard, when Frank could just go be himself at Fisk's competition more? Rarity posted:Except that was all just an act to attract Matt. Once it comes out she drops that aspect of her character completely apart from the brief interaction with the assassin at the airport. So? The point that most posters in the thread are making is that Elektra is unlikable. Saying "no, I'm actually bland and in love with Matt, because of ninja bullshit" halfway through her appearance on the show doesn't unpoison the well. Mameluke fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Mar 21, 2016 |
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Mar 21, 2016 23:14
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BiggerBoat posted:Overall, it was good, but it needed a bit of tightening, plot wise. A more comprehensive (and SIMPLE) overlap between Frank, Wilson, Elektra, Matt and Karen would have helped the story a lot. The parts where the show did those things and kept the tension simple were the most interesting parts (Karen finding Elektra in Matt's bed, Frank and Wilson in the jail, Fisk adjusting and re-adjusting his level of power and control, Murdock and Fisk conducting an interview, Foggy knowing what Matt's doing but unable to say anything about it)
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Mar 21, 2016 23:14
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The hole was dumb because it was a setup with no payoff. Period. It has nothing to do with how fantastical or mundane it was.
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Mar 21, 2016 23:15
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Spergatory posted:The hole was dumb because it was a setup with no payoff. Period. It has nothing to do with how fantastical or mundane it was.
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Mar 21, 2016 23:19
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coyo7e posted:Where else do you think they found that lazarus machine? I had assumed they found it in ancient Japan, like in Stick's story.
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Mar 21, 2016 23:22
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Mover posted:Punisher season one is also The Wire season six Punisher vs Zombie Omar. David Simon sits in a room quietly weeping.
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Mar 21, 2016 23:23
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Spergatory posted:The hole was dumb because it was a setup with no payoff. Period. It has nothing to do with how fantastical or mundane it was. It's such an odd feeling from me. A ton of great scenes but not a great season. It just needed to follow a single thread more. It felt like i was watching three different shows; and I didn't feel that way in S1.
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Mar 21, 2016 23:25
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The only thing I would've changed with the Punisher story is either have the DA on the Blacksmith's payroll or make it more explicit that he was specifically intending to kill Castle's family. Right now it's just "The Blacksmith called a meeting and he might've orchestrated it so that Frank's family would be killed or he might've just been spooked by the cops and not shown up. Either way, he had nothing to do with the coverup".
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Mar 21, 2016 23:29
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Blazing Ownager posted:
TMNT is a Daredevil parody.
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Mar 21, 2016 23:33
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Lycus posted:I had assumed they found it in ancient Japan, like in Stick's story. It was about the right size of hole for an excavation like that, you'd want a lot of room to lift something like that back up to the surface, on top of probably not being sure down to centimeters, where it was below the building.
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Mar 21, 2016 23:35
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I'm pretty sure the hole/shipped dirt/Hand mysteries are supposed to go unexplained until the next season, when they tell a Shadowland story.
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Mar 21, 2016 23:36
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coyo7e posted:I have no idea how Karen walking in on Elektra in Matt's apartment was any kind of well done or interesting. Did she think he was having some random old blind guy over to have a blind 3-way behind her back? She never even mentioned "Hey, who's this scrawny old guy on your couch, eating apples with a bigass kitchen knife?" It's like Karen was the only blind person in that scene. This scene really struck me as sloppy as hell, yeah. There wasn't anything immediately romantic about what she walked in on either, other than the fact that Elektra happens to be an attractive woman. Like if I went to my boyfriend's house and saw some muscular raisin of a senior citizen and a girl convalescing in his bed I'd think she got hit by a car, and is this guy her dad? But no, Karen, who otherwise spends every season poring over mysteries and yelling IT'S NOT WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE decides that this right here, with this old fucker and some random Asian lady, is exactly what it looks like. It was some Arrow-level nonsense.
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Mar 21, 2016 23:37
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Spergatory posted:The hole was dumb because it was a setup with no payoff. Period. It has nothing to do with how fantastical or mundane it was. Swillkitsch posted:This scene really struck me as sloppy as hell, yeah. There wasn't anything immediately romantic about what she walked in on either, other than the fact that Elektra happens to be an attractive woman. Like if I went to my boyfriend's house and saw some muscular raisin of a senior citizen and a girl convalescing in his bed I'd think she got hit by a car, and is this guy her dad? But no, Karen, who otherwise spends every season poring over mysteries and yelling IT'S NOT WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE decides that this right here, with this old fucker and some random Asian lady, is exactly what it looks like. It was some Arrow-level nonsense.
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Mar 21, 2016 23:43
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question about ep 12 why did Daredevil suddenly lose his fighting skills in the sewers? I thought maybe he went deaf again but he can hear Stick giving him the instructions so he still has super hearing. what happened?
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Mar 21, 2016 23:45
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Pron on VHS posted:question about ep 12 why did Daredevil suddenly lose his fighting skills in the sewers? I thought maybe he went deaf again but he can hear Stick giving him the instructions so he still has super hearing. what happened? It's established earlier that the Hand ninjas conceal their heartbeats, so he starts listening for their swords. But they figure that out, so they stop using their swords too.
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Mar 21, 2016 23:47
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I did like that they were ineffectively punching him for what seemed like an eternity until he leveled up and took Sense: Zombie Breathing so he could fight them some more.
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Mar 21, 2016 23:48
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It really is impressive just how much of a gently caress-up Matt is this season. The whole season felt like him failing repeatedly and alienating everyone around him.
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Mar 21, 2016 23:49
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BrianWilly posted:I loved the big hole ninja scene and the hospital ninja scene. They really did a good job of ramping up the tension and getting me to feel like anything could happen at this point. It didn't feel disjointed from the rest of the series because we did spend time building up to these confrontations. Like...we meet Elektra, she tells us the Yakuza is still a problem, then we see the Yakuza escalating their efforts, then we keep adding more and more layers to this problem until we get to the whole situation with the Chaste and the Hand, which was already in the first season anyway. Honestly I'm kind of surprised at how many were thrown by the giant hole. I was just like "hmmm more magic ninja poo poo,"I'm sure it's something they'll deal with down the line. I also agree that the structure worked well, but I do get why people may not. Netflix shows always get slammed critically because they don't stick to the pacing structure we're all used to, with episodes not necessarily being self contained structurally. So people feel like they are watchin 13 hour movies instead of having setup/payoff within each episode. So, for DD season 2, they put in a few mini-arcs that episodes focus on, that can give us conflict and resolution without solving or changing the season-long plot stakes. But I can see how that would feel like a few seasons in one. There's no reason why Netflix seasons be 13, or 10, or any number of episodes, so it would be cool if they sprung for shorter seasons, not necessarily for DD but for characters that Marvel may not feel could carry their own show. zoux fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Mar 21, 2016 |
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Mar 21, 2016 23:54
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Jerusalem posted:Punisher vs Zombie Omar. David Simon sits in a room quietly weeping. WILSON FISK: (in autistic shouting baby voice) You come at the Kingpin, you best not miss!
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Mar 22, 2016 00:02
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Just finished the season. Kind of disappointed. It really felt like it suffered from a lack of focus and being pulled in too many directions at once. The first season was perfect. You had Daredevil and his nemesis, and everything that happens the entire season is somehow related to those two people's fight against each other. Then it all came together at the end. This season didn't have that one major thread that everything could be written around. Instead we got the Punisher, weird conspiracy with the Hand, legal drama, Elecktra/Stick drama. Daredevil was being pulled in dozens of different directions and while they did an admirable job making that sort of his character struggle of the season, I think overall it dragged everything else down. Nothing feels particularly satisfied by the end. I would have enjoyed it more if they picked one side (Punisher and legal drama) or the other (Elektra/Stick/Mystical ninja crap) and focused on fleshing out that aspect instead of trying to counter balance the two. For the majority of the season the two sides aren't even connected in any way, and the best connection we get is just "The Blacksmith", a mystery dude we get zero info on and is left as a cliffhanger. Maybe I just don't care for the ancient mystical crap. Stick's episode was my least favorite of S1. Elecktra annoyed me for most of this season. The Punisher stuff and arguments on the nature of vigilantism and the legal drama was so much more interesting than some ancient cult of ninjas who don't die. Also man they went gory this season. Did not expect to see multiple throats get cut in detail in my show about a blind lawyer who does ninja flips. I'm fine with gore but it felt unnecessary.
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Mar 22, 2016 00:02
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Febreeze posted:"The Blacksmith", a mystery dude we get zero info on and is left as a cliffhanger. The Blacksmith was Clancy Brown, they were pretty clear about this
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Mar 22, 2016 00:06
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Swillkitsch posted:This scene really struck me as sloppy as hell, yeah. There wasn't anything immediately romantic about what she walked in on either, other than the fact that Elektra happens to be an attractive woman. Like if I went to my boyfriend's house and saw some muscular raisin of a senior citizen and a girl convalescing in his bed I'd think she got hit by a car, and is this guy her dad? But no, Karen, who otherwise spends every season poring over mysteries and yelling IT'S NOT WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE decides that this right here, with this old fucker and some random Asian lady, is exactly what it looks like. It was some Arrow-level nonsense. It wasn't that she thought he was sleeping with Elektra (though I'm sure the thought did cross her mind), it's more that it's yet one more thing that Matt is hiding from his girlfriend and his best friend while constantly flaking out on the Punisher trial that he dragged them into in the first place. Also, people keep mentioning Ben Urich still being dead as a negative so I feel it's worth pointing out that the showrunners thought they only had the rights to him for a single season and never would have killed him off if they had known about the Sony/Marvel Spider-Man deal.
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Mar 22, 2016 00:08
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BrianWilly posted:Nah, there were lots of things in the season that were set up to continue next year -- virtually everything with Foggy and Karen up to and including the literal last scene of the season, unless we're suggesting that the payoff to their arc is "Matt ruined all his friendships forever, the end" -- but the hole sticks out for people because it was fantastical. I agree there wasn't much to it, but it was just there to bolster the whole Elektra/Stick/Hand arc, and there was a lot to that, and people are still complaining. So. If you want to entice people with a mystery, you have to answer questions in addition to raising them. This season gave us almost nothing but questions and the few answers we got weren't terribly satisfying. There was a lot happening with the Hand but without any kind of resolution or hint at what any of it means or why it matters, all I can do is shrug at it. You could replace any conversation about the Hand this season with Matt asking "What are they going to do?" and Stick/Elektra replying "Bad Stuff™" and lose nothing. That's how dumb and vague the Hand is right now.
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Mar 22, 2016 00:11
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zoux posted:Honestly I'm kind of surprised at how many were thrown by the giant hole. I was just like "hmmm more magic ninja poo poo,"I'm sure it's something they'll deal with down the line. I was trying too hard to connect all the plots while I was watching it so my brain went "...ok...drug gang bringing TONS of heroin into the city nobody knows how.... Magical ninjas are creating a hole to nowhere... definitely connected." lmao like the gangs were paying Hand to build a giant freight elevator to China or something? I was throwing everything at the wall. bring back old gbs fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Mar 22, 2016 |
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Mar 22, 2016 00:12
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coyo7e posted:I have no idea how Karen walking in on Elektra in Matt's apartment was any kind of well done or interesting. Did she think he was having some random old blind guy over to have a blind 3-way behind her back? She never even mentioned "Hey, who's this scrawny old guy on your couch, eating apples with a bigass kitchen knife?" It's like Karen was the only blind person in that scene. It wasn't that she thought they were having sex. She walks in, sees that there is so much Matt is withholding from her, and realises that no matter what he says it's probably bullshit. e: ah, beaten
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Mar 22, 2016 00:12
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Subvisual Haze posted:It really is impressive just how much of a gently caress-up Matt is this season. The whole season felt like him failing repeatedly and alienating everyone around him. Well yes, that is the character of Matt Murdock.
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Mar 22, 2016 00:13
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Polaron posted:It wasn't that she thought he was sleeping with Elektra (though I'm sure the thought did cross her mind), it's more that it's yet one more thing that Matt is hiding from his girlfriend and his best friend while constantly flaking out on the Punisher trial that he dragged them into in the first place. This last bit makes it even worse. Ugh.
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Mar 22, 2016 00:13
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So y'all think she's gonna be cool with him being DD?
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Mar 22, 2016 00:13
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Febreeze posted:Also man they went gory this season. Did not expect to see multiple throats get cut in detail in my show about a blind lawyer who does ninja flips. I'm fine with gore but it felt unnecessary. I'm with you. The throat cutting wasn't so bad, but the multiple eye-stabbings and foot drillings and under-the-fingernail bamboo gouging got me to look away a couple times. Unnecessary is a good word. I also was not a fan of the hole, if only because so few things were explained about the Hand as-is. Last season introduced us to Black Sky, which was the ultimate weapon...somehow, and okay, that's a nice mystery leading into S2, spooky magic ninja clan that's only a tertiary player this first season. But this season they were the major antagonists, and it seems a bit unsatisfying to not even have their main goal for the season explained, even if we weren't going to get all our questions answered. We spent a lot of time learning about the train cars full of dirt, had an episode cliff-hanger on Matt discovering how large the hole was, and then no payoff at all. We didn't even really find out what was going on with the blood they were draining. It was just a bit anticlimactic to have Stick kill the bad guy and then end the season with no further explanation.
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Mar 22, 2016 00:14
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Phenotype posted:I'm with you. The throat cutting wasn't so bad, but the multiple eye-stabbings and foot drillings and under-the-fingernail bamboo gouging got me to look away a couple times. Unnecessary is a good word. i think the blood draining and hole will be explained in a later season of Defenders or Daredevil or Iron Fist
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Mar 22, 2016 00:18
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Pron on VHS posted:i think the blood draining and hole will be explained in a later season of Defenders or Daredevil or Iron Fist Sure, but that doesn't make this season any more satisfying, narratively.
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Mar 22, 2016 00:19
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Phenotype posted:Sure, but that doesn't make this season any more satisfying, narratively. Except for all the things that did get resolved....
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Mar 22, 2016 00:20
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zoux posted:So y'all think she's gonna be cool with him being DD? I think she'll call him out on some of his hypocrisy regarding vigilantes during that initial argument they had but it'll be tempered by her realizing just how much it explains. You could see all the pieces slotting into place for her at the very end there.
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Mar 22, 2016 00:23
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My issue was that I was very interested in the hole and bored by the "Elektra is the Black Sky!" stuff, so I was left disappointed with what part of the magic ninjas they chose to focus on.
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Mar 22, 2016 00:24
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All I ask, the only thing I want more than anything else in this show, is that at some point Matt walks into the office Christmas Party wearing a sweater that says,"I AM NOT DAREDEVIL"
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Mar 22, 2016 00:25
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Is it unusual for television shows to leave some things unresolved at the end of a season?
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Mar 22, 2016 00:29
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