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pram
Jun 10, 2001
scientists and math doers are retarded idiots who like poo poo programming languages le shock

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eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

a cool and new-ish model came along and it's being used for all kinds of stuff

an acceptable new implementation of an existing model came along and it's open source so it's being used for all kinds of stuff

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

eschaton posted:

an acceptable new implementation of an existing model came along and it's open source so it's being used for all kinds of stuff

i'm ok with this summary, too

lesson learned: nothing you do will change the industry unless it's open source

ahmeni
May 1, 2005

It's one continuous form where hardware and software function in perfect unison, creating a new generation of iPhone that's better by any measure.
Grimey Drawer

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

i'm ok with this summary, too

lesson learned: nothing you do will change the industry unless it's open source

this is now weird but true and it's the only good part of our techno dystopia

atomicthumbs
Dec 26, 2010


We're in the business of extending man's senses.
i have a Stupid Linux Question i was wondering if yall might be able to answer

I want to do two things:

1. keep using windows on my desktop, allowing for playing video james and poo poo but:
2. also run linux on it, so I can do GPGPU poo poo simultaneously/when I'm not playing video games

is there any way to do a passthrough thing with windows that I can turn off, or switch windows to intel graphics when I need the GPU for linux

basically just swap the graphics card between two running (or temporarily suspended) VMs

thank

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009

atomicthumbs posted:

i have a Stupid Linux Question i was wondering if yall might be able to answer

I want to do two things:

1. keep using windows on my desktop, allowing for playing video james and poo poo but:
2. also run linux on it, so I can do GPGPU poo poo simultaneously/when I'm not playing video games

is there any way to do a passthrough thing with windows that I can turn off, or switch windows to intel graphics when I need the GPU for linux

basically just swap the graphics card between two running (or temporarily suspended) VMs

thank

With two GPU's it's possible to do this the other way around: https://wiki.debian.org/VGAPassthrough

Linux as the main, windows as the VM.

atomicthumbs
Dec 26, 2010


We're in the business of extending man's senses.

ratbert90 posted:

With two GPU's it's possible to do this the other way around: https://wiki.debian.org/VGAPassthrough

Linux as the main, windows as the VM.

from what i read it's definitely possible to run linux on the intel as the main, with windows getting pci passthrough to the gpu

but i need to be able to switch 'em

alternate option: low-endish nvidia card for linux so I can run CUDA too

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009

atomicthumbs posted:

from what i read it's definitely possible to run linux on the intel as the main, with windows getting pci passthrough to the gpu


This is true, I guess I forget that most new intel motherboards have built in video these days.

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

atomicthumbs posted:

i have a Stupid Linux Question i was wondering if yall might be able to answer

I want to do two things:

1. keep using windows on my desktop, allowing for playing video james and poo poo but:
2. also run linux on it, so I can do GPGPU poo poo simultaneously/when I'm not playing video games

is there any way to do a passthrough thing with windows that I can turn off, or switch windows to intel graphics when I need the GPU for linux

basically just swap the graphics card between two running (or temporarily suspended) VMs

thank

run your videogames on linux.

Shaggar
Apr 26, 2006

atomicthumbs posted:

i have a Stupid Linux Question i was wondering if yall might be able to answer

I want to do two things:

1. keep using windows on my desktop, allowing for playing video james and poo poo but:
2. also run linux on it, so I can do GPGPU poo poo simultaneously/when I'm not playing video games

is there any way to do a passthrough thing with windows that I can turn off, or switch windows to intel graphics when I need the GPU for linux

basically just swap the graphics card between two running (or temporarily suspended) VMs

thank

do the gpgpu poo poo on windows

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

atomicthumbs posted:

but i need to be able to switch 'em

Not going to happen, GPUs are really stateful.

It's possible in principle if both OSes and the hypervisor supported GPU hotplugging but yeah not going to happen in practice.

pseudorandom name
May 6, 2007

well, windows has the whole "stateful" thing solved what with the driver upgrades without rebooting and the recovering from GPU crashes and so on

Cocoa Crispies
Jul 20, 2001

Vehicular Manslaughter!

Pillbug

atomicthumbs posted:

i have a Stupid Linux Question i was wondering if yall might be able to answer

I want to do two things:

1. keep using windows on my desktop, allowing for playing video james and poo poo but:
2. also run linux on it, so I can do GPGPU poo poo simultaneously/when I'm not playing video games

is there any way to do a passthrough thing with windows that I can turn off, or switch windows to intel graphics when I need the GPU for linux

basically just swap the graphics card between two running (or temporarily suspended) VMs

thank

quit playing video games so you don't have to run windows

atomicthumbs
Dec 26, 2010


We're in the business of extending man's senses.

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

run your videogames on linux.

No

Shaggar posted:

do the gpgpu poo poo on windows

No

Mr Dog posted:

Not going to happen, GPUs are really stateful.

It's possible in principle if both OSes and the hypervisor supported GPU hotplugging but yeah not going to happen in practice.

I'm okay with shutting down whatever to switch/reinitialize gpu but it's looking like a secondary gpu will be the easiest way

atomicthumbs
Dec 26, 2010


We're in the business of extending man's senses.
I run Windows not just for the video games, but because it's the industry standard operating system. Also I need to use Adobe products.

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene
get a solaris/sparc workstation for the adobe products then

(photoshop 4 and framemaker should be good enough right?)

Cocoa Crispies
Jul 20, 2001

Vehicular Manslaughter!

Pillbug

atomicthumbs posted:

I run Windows not just for the video games, but because it's the industry standard operating system. Also I need to use Adobe products.

have you tried the world's most advanced operating system, mac os x? you can get the entire adobe creative suite there, and it doesn't come with ads for candy crunch or a defective full-screen calculator app either

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009

atomicthumbs posted:

I run Windows not just for the video games, but because it's the industry standard operating system.

For people who don't want to run servers or make embedded products that doesn't run off of a lovely RTOS.

atomicthumbs
Dec 26, 2010


We're in the business of extending man's senses.
sorry, industry standard for users

Cocoa Crispies posted:

have you tried the world's most advanced operating system, mac os x? you can get the entire adobe creative suite there, and it doesn't come with ads for candy crunch or a defective full-screen calculator app either

I've considered it, but apparently the sound won't work on my computer.

Cocoa Crispies
Jul 20, 2001

Vehicular Manslaughter!

Pillbug

atomicthumbs posted:

sorry, industry standard for users


I've considered it, but apparently the sound won't work on my computer.

take it back to the apple store and they should replace or fix it

Broken Machine
Oct 22, 2010

it was mentioned upthread a while ago, but if you want to run Windows games on linux, provided they're on Steam you can stream them from a windows machine to the linux client. it works quite well.

Suspicious Dish
Sep 24, 2011

2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro
Fun Shoe

pseudorandom name posted:

well, windows has the whole "stateful" thing solved what with the driver upgrades without rebooting and the recovering from GPU crashes and so on

nah it just resets all the state so you see horrible modesets for a bit

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
There's a D3D error code that means "you lost the GPU, reinitialize literally everything, from the beginning" and almost any D3D function can return it

OpenGL doesn't have that error code, but Vulkan does.

seems like kind of a pain in the rear end imo, I thought that got done away with when GPUs gained virtual memory back in like, the Vista days

Suspicious Dish
Sep 24, 2011

2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro
Fun Shoe
except nobody handles that correctly, they just crash. even dwm.exe doesn't handle that.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
It happens when you ALT-TAB out of a fullscreen D3D9 app under XP, although there's some note in the API docs about how if you initialize D3D9 in D3D9Ex mode (which is only available in Vista+) then it's guaranteed to never happen

But I'm pretty sure I've ALT-TABbed out of full screen games in the WinXP days and they didn't crash so :shrug: More to the point I've hosed around with some arcade games written to run on WinXP and those absolutely do crash if you ALT-TAB out of them, although admittedly this D3D9 issue is not necessarily the reason why that happens.

I was just surprised that it's part of the Vulkan spec, because I thought that particular thing was ancient history.

Breakfast All Day
Oct 21, 2004

everybug old is new again

pram
Jun 10, 2001
i think theres maybe something about this in the mythical man month???

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

atomicthumbs posted:

I've considered it, but apparently the sound won't work on my computer.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002R33VWW

problem solved

The_Franz
Aug 8, 2003

Mr Dog posted:

I was just surprised that it's part of the Vulkan spec, because I thought that particular thing was ancient history.

what are functions supposed to return if some bozo uninstalls the drivers or yanks the card out while things are running? the language in the spec makes it sound like it's just for serious hardware malfunctions and not old-style d3d alt-tab bullshit.

ahmeni
May 1, 2005

It's one continuous form where hardware and software function in perfect unison, creating a new generation of iPhone that's better by any measure.
Grimey Drawer
we have legit use cases these days for losing context though like dual gpu systems and lovely keyboard docks with video cards in them

idk what opengl does in that context though

pseudorandom name
May 6, 2007

The_Franz posted:

what are functions supposed to return if some bozo uninstalls the drivers or yanks the card out while things are running? the language in the spec makes it sound like it's just for serious hardware malfunctions and not old-style d3d alt-tab bullshit.

or the much simpler case of "what happens if the GPU crashes?"

which is theoretically hidden from you now in Direct3D or OpenGL, but Vulkan is all about hiding absolutely nothing from the application

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

glad i don't do gpu stuff. sounds like a pain.

RISCy Business
Jun 17, 2015

bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork
Fun Shoe
http://news.softpedia.com/news/meet-ubuntubsd-unix-for-human-beings-501959.shtml

ubuntu... bsd???

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003


like all up and coming open source projects this one is hosted on sourceforge

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?
and has a name dissing systemd

though at least FreeBSD has a claim to eventually having something better, since they'll eventually have launchd

Athas
Aug 6, 2007

fuck that joker

akadajet posted:

glad i don't do gpu stuff. sounds like a pain.

I am a PhD student, and my research involves a compiler for a functional language that generates high-performance GPU code. Many times have I regretted selecting a research field dependent on functioning GPU drivers on Linux.

Although modern Intel GPUs are pretty nice, seem to have even more horsepower than their attached CPUs, and the drivers tend to work well.

atomicthumbs
Dec 26, 2010


We're in the business of extending man's senses.
apparently the HD Graphics 4600 thing attached to my 4790k does 60% as well as a Titan in certain OpenCL things. too bad 3/4ths of the useful poo poo seems to be CUDA

dont skimp on the shrimp
Apr 23, 2008

:coffee:
gonna try the latest nvidia beta, it's supposed to have kms and poo poo

wish me luck!

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
good luck! also don't forget to pass that module parameter to nvidia-kms.ko or whatever it's called because it's not enabled by default rn

i wonder how they integrated with libdrm and gbm in the end because that was always the main sticking point. well, libdrm is just a bunch of wafer thin size-and-malloc wrappers around the base drm ioctls, but gbm is fairly tightly integrated into the whole dri plugin system iirc

Sapozhnik fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Mar 22, 2016

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dont skimp on the shrimp
Apr 23, 2008

:coffee:
thanks!

yeah, it's disabled by default, but the pkgbuild i used seem to include it. the docs mentioned it being experimental and i think without support for gbm right now

i've yet to try it, waiting for a youtube clip to finish

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