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I honestly dont even know what a "NATO counter" is. I was wanting to try 4, but HoI is probably not for me really
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Mar 29, 2016 12:55
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Elias_Maluco posted:I honestly dont even know what a "NATO counter" is. It is a symbol that stands in for a military force, and simplified versions of them are used in WW2 strategy games to represent a country's armies. So a box with an X in it stands for infantry, with a diagonal stands for cavalry, with a dot it stands for artillery, and so on. A lot of people love NATO counters. A lot of those people love NATO counters a bit too much.
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Mar 29, 2016 12:59
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considering NATO counters are anachronistic as well for a WW2 game.
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Mar 29, 2016 13:03
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Groogy posted:considering NATO counters are anachronistic as well for a WW2 game. paradox gamers exposed as casuals once again. just can't hang with the real grogs 
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Mar 29, 2016 13:07
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We should use the actual Taktische Zeichen and have the proper icons per year to be proper grogs. Pff have consistent icons? So casual.
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Mar 29, 2016 13:11
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Groogy posted:considering NATO counters are anachronistic as well for a WW2 game. HoI2 had them and they were legitimately the better choice in that game since the soldier sprites didn't allow you to distinguish different types of units as well. Infantry, marines, mountaineers, paratroopers all used the same generic soldierman sprite, with counters you could actually tell them apart. For me at least, that's where my affection for counters over sprites comes from.
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Mar 29, 2016 13:13
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YF-23 posted:HoI2 had them and they were legitimately the better choice in that game since the soldier sprites didn't allow you to distinguish different types of units as well. Infantry, marines, mountaineers, paratroopers all used the same generic soldierman sprite, with counters you could actually tell them apart. For me at least, that's where my affection for counters over sprites comes from. I played HOI2 and DH with counters on, but that's solely because the unit sprites looked like literal turds, unlike HOI4. Also HOI2/DH/iirc 3 had this completely logical and totally aesthetically-pleasing problem with counters: http://believableworlds.tumblr.com/image/136820258055
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Mar 29, 2016 13:19
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These counters are makin' me thirsty!!
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Mar 29, 2016 13:25
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Is there a reason chemical weapons aren't modeled in Hearts of Iron? I don't think it's one of the taboo things (ie weirdos with why can't I have SimDachu). Is it that in the end it would be a pita to model counter measures to make it more detailed then just an artillery bonus and/or morale hit for defenders? Also that's like the one NATO counter that gives you an idea of what it is...cause it looks like dead trees. Also wanted to add that the map and units look so much more pleasing on the eye...same with Stellaris so I suspect I'll just use those. Oh finally watched Japan World War Wednesday and god I love Battle Plans. It's what I've always wanted, especially the ability to "paint areas" on the map and create offensive and defense areas so easily. Marshal Prolapse fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Mar 29, 2016 |
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Mar 29, 2016 15:11
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I just want a realistic picture of my T34 for the unit art as it rolls across Kansas spreading communism.
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Mar 29, 2016 15:35
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gfanikf posted:Is there a reason chemical weapons aren't modeled in Hearts of Iron? I don't think it's one of the taboo things (ie weirdos with why can't I have SimDachu). Is it that in the end it would be a pita to model counter measures to make it more detailed then just an artillery bonus and/or morale hit for defenders? Ostensibly because warcrimes aren't modeled, but gas attack is present in Victoria 2, so who knows.
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Mar 29, 2016 15:38
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gfanikf posted:Is there a reason chemical weapons aren't modeled in Hearts of Iron? I don't think it's one of the taboo things (ie weirdos with why can't I have SimDachu). Is it that in the end it would be a pita to model counter measures to make it more detailed then just an artillery bonus and/or morale hit for defenders?
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Mar 29, 2016 15:42
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Drone posted:Ostensibly because warcrimes aren't modeled, but gas attack is present in Victoria 2, so who knows. It wasn't a crime during that time period, maybe? 
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Mar 29, 2016 15:47
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Drone posted:Ostensibly because warcrimes aren't modeled, but gas attack is present in Victoria 2, so who knows. Victoria 2 also features several genocide buttons. The sort of un-PC fun they won't let us have anymore...
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Mar 29, 2016 15:57
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Bold Robot posted:It wasn't a crime during that time period, maybe? It was, however there was a loophole because the agreement (forgot which one it was) specified the various way to use chemical warfare so simply opening canisters and letting the wind carry the mustard gas was "technically legal".
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Mar 29, 2016 16:05
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When you press the button to use chemical weapons in HoI4, instead you are made to watch Haile Selassie's speech to the League of Nations about the Italian conquest of Ethiopia. After that is complete, the game locks up as Bob Marley's War plays in the background.
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Mar 29, 2016 16:08
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:Yeah I'm on my first real game on Easy (after restarting due to a food death spiral) and it's quite competitive even with all the advantages I'm getting. I think I have to unlearn a lot of my instincts from Civilization, like using my civilian units to build as much poo poo as possible. Very 90s game, in that it provides a bunch of in-game help but you can still shoot yourself in the foot completely. Oh man hell yes, Imperialism II is amazing. It's one of those games that nails its intended thesis really well. All the mechanics come together to produce a really brilliant exploration / conquest / colonization of the new world game and put it into a context of European competition. There should be an Imperialism III ;_;
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Mar 29, 2016 16:30
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I was thinking more of potential uses on different fronts vs Unit 731 Simulator.Groogy posted:It was, however there was a loophole because the agreement (forgot which one it was) specified the various way to use chemical warfare so simply opening canisters and letting the wind carry the mustard gas was "technically legal". Also a lot of nations weren't signatories or didn't ratify it and there were a lot of reservations for each signature. I want to say the US and Japan definitely weren't. The US Signed the 1925 Geneva Protocol but it wasn't ratified until 1975. The US had a reservation basically saying if an enemy, even a signatory, didn't follow the rules, the prohibition wasn't binding on use against them. The UK also had this one along with one about non signer states and even their allies. A LOT of countries did for a long time. Wiki on Geneva Protocol explains it in far greater detail. It was pretty weak, hence why the 1972 Chemical Weapons Convention was concluded. Since you could still make, research, and stockpile it. Use it internally and use it externally pretty easily too. PleasingFungus posted:Victoria 2 also features several genocide buttons. The sort of un-PC fun they won't let us have anymore... Such as? I haven't played Victoria II in a long time and can't remember much about it besides the game being almost on auto run unless there was a war. Marshal Prolapse fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Mar 29, 2016 |
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Mar 29, 2016 16:31
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Dibujante posted:Oh man hell yes, Imperialism II is amazing. It's one of those games that nails its intended thesis really well. All the mechanics come together to produce a really brilliant exploration / conquest / colonization of the new world game and put it into a context of European competition. There should be an Imperialism III ;_; It's a good game dragged down by the fact that I'm not good at it.
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Mar 29, 2016 17:03
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gfanikf posted:Such as? I haven't played Victoria II in a long time and can't remember much about it besides the game being almost on auto run unless there was a war. Patter Song posted:Transvaal also has a Great Trek decision to take many of the Boer pops out of British Cape Colony and into Transvaal, but it doesn't use it. If it did, we could retaliate with the "Attack The Laagers" decision, which massacres the Boer population in Durban and gives us some prestige in return. This is not a joke, this is an actual thing in the game. The US also has the Trail of Tears decision. Those are the two I was thinking of, though it's certainly possible there are others.
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Mar 29, 2016 17:38
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There's a solution to counters that solves everything for everyone. Use 3d models at all levels, but make them Wrestlemania wrestlers, and translate all actions / special attacks / maneuvers into different grapples. Blitzkrieg encirclement needs to be hitting a guy with a chair and then jumping on him, though.
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Mar 29, 2016 17:53
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YF-23 posted:HoI2 had them and they were legitimately the better choice in that game since the soldier sprites didn't allow you to distinguish different types of units as well. Infantry, marines, mountaineers, paratroopers all used the same generic soldierman sprite, with counters you could actually tell them apart. For me at least, that's where my affection for counters over sprites comes from. Yeah plus they look cool and wargamey. I guess its unreasonable to obsess about them but they definitely should be on HoI4
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Mar 29, 2016 18:58
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Having your 10+ counter stacks smash a tiny single enemy counter is one hell of a feel
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Mar 29, 2016 19:01
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I cant believe this thread has not been gassed yet...
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Mar 29, 2016 19:12
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It's incredible that we've had so many counter posts when they're literally an option in HoI IV anyway
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Mar 29, 2016 19:17
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Empress Theonora posted:It's incredible that we've had so many counter posts when they're literally an option in HoI IV anyway
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Mar 29, 2016 19:23
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Re: chemical weapons in world war 2. They were hardly ever used because all parties involved remembered the first world war and didn't want to escalate to normalising chemical warfare and its widespread use. I mean firebombing civilians and mass rape were okay, of course, but introducing clouds of poisonous vapour that were at the mercy of the prevailing winds was a step too far in a war that was already indiscriminate. If chemical weapons were in the game, you'd end up with some kind nightmarish ahistorical situation where they'd be everywhere all the time thanks to the AI. Or, if you restricted their use to human players only in order to preserve versimillitude you'd end up with players absolutely steamrolling the AI if sulphur mustard gave any kind of worthwhile advantage.
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Mar 29, 2016 19:24
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Or they could just already be included in artillery and support weapons. You don't have to select the type of shells each gun or mortar is firing, so just assume that some portion of the mortars and artillery are firing chemical weapons or not. It probably wouldn't make a huge difference given that they weren't that widely used. Does the game model artillery firing smoke bombardments? I honestly don't know that one, but if you're wanting to include some sort of gaseous product fired from support weapons that depends on wind patterns but can be very impactful, you should start there. (Don't actually start there. This game does not need to be that granular)
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Mar 29, 2016 19:37
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TomViolence posted:Re: chemical weapons in world war 2. They were hardly ever used because all parties involved remembered the first world war and didn't want to escalate to normalising chemical warfare and its widespread use. I mean firebombing civilians and mass rape were okay, of course, but introducing clouds of poisonous vapour that were at the mercy of the prevailing winds was a step too far in a war that was already indiscriminate. If chemical weapons were in the game, you'd end up with some kind nightmarish ahistorical situation where they'd be everywhere all the time thanks to the AI. Or, if you restricted their use to human players only in order to preserve versimillitude you'd end up with players absolutely steamrolling the AI if sulphur mustard gave any kind of worthwhile advantage. gas attacks were also considerably useless in the fast moving warfare of WW2, it just ended up neutralizing attacks and making defense a bitch with all the smoke i think.
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Mar 29, 2016 20:07
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:Yeah plus they look cool and wargamey. I guess its unreasonable to obsess about them but they definitely should be on HoI4 HoI4 has counters, they are visible on your army's icons. The only difference is they're there in addition to the 3D models and do not replace them. Bort Bortles posted:Though that Horse/SMG gif was pretty sweet. Horse?
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Mar 29, 2016 20:13
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YF-23 posted:Horse?
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Mar 29, 2016 20:22
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Empress Theonora posted:It's incredible that we've had so many counter posts when they're literally an option in HoI IV anyway it's only the people who hate counters doing this.
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Mar 29, 2016 20:43
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I played HoI3 loads with NATO counters and didn't mind them at all. It is far too funny somebody thought the horse icon could be a cow, zebra or elephant to pass up the comedy posts however.
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Mar 29, 2016 20:50
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Hey, India has War Elephants in CKII, maybe they had them in WWII. 
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Mar 29, 2016 21:44
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Darkrenown posted:Yeah, Waldetoft is still our music dude. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it, I seriously think Waldetoft is the best game composer in the business. It's amazing to me how consistently he turns out really great soundtracks. Hitlers Gay Secret posted:Hey, India has War Elephants in CKII, maybe they had them in WWII. 
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Mar 29, 2016 23:20
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My only HOI experience is Arsenal of Democracy, which I liked. I love EU4 (eu2/3 were pretty good), couldn't get into CK2 or Vicky, and heard HOI3 was bad. Am I gonna like HOI4?
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Mar 29, 2016 23:33
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Azuren posted:My only HOI experience is Arsenal of Democracy, which I liked. I love EU4 (eu2/3 were pretty good), couldn't get into CK2 or Vicky, and heard HOI3 was bad. Am I gonna like HOI4? No one knows because it's not out yet. I couldn't stand Hoi3 and think 4 still has wayyyy too many provinces and micro, but I think it will be good. But I'm not the target audience. I don't give a poo poo about moving troops around on the map or the exact type of tanks I have, I just want cool alt-history. Would be fine with EU4 level province size/count and armies made out of 3-4 soldier types.
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Mar 29, 2016 23:49
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Azuren posted:My only HOI experience is Arsenal of Democracy, which I liked. I love EU4 (eu2/3 were pretty good), couldn't get into CK2 or Vicky, and heard HOI3 was bad. Am I gonna like HOI4?
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Mar 29, 2016 23:54
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WeaponGradeSadness posted:I've said it before and I'll keep saying it, I seriously think Waldetoft is the best game composer in the business. It's amazing to me how consistently he turns out really great soundtracks. Especially the vick2 one!
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Mar 30, 2016 01:29
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Dibujante posted:Oh man hell yes, Imperialism II is amazing. It's one of those games that nails its intended thesis really well. All the mechanics come together to produce a really brilliant exploration / conquest / colonization of the new world game and put it into a context of European competition. There should be an Imperialism III ;_; I really think an indie dev should try their hand at it. Ubisoft has the rights currently but you could just call it something legally safe. Great game.
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Mar 30, 2016 01:31
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