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Jabor posted:In fact, if you're powering electric furnaces with steam power, they produce just as much pollution and use twice as much fuel as conventional furnaces. Add the (the admittedly even more minor) costs of mining/producing the extra fuel, and it's a bit more yet. So, yeah. Loopoo posted:Radar will scan a 7x7 chunk on the map (to give you an idea of how big this is, run off into an area without a radar and the zone you reveal on the map is a 5x5 chunk). They don't scan outwards forever. It just discovers tiles within a certain radius, and then it'll re-scan the same radius to find if any new biter nests have spawned. Solumin posted:The termites are ridiculous -- like Landfill, they feel like they give too much power to the player, in my opinion. Except Termites are even stronger than Landfill. Ratzap posted:The alien ones explode for about 20 seconds locally then there's like a circular atom bomb shockwave that spreads out for thousands of tiles (if the trees extend that far) and lag your game to hell. If you've never see it, it'd be worth rolling a game just to watch. Watch an alien termite in a very heavily wooded area (like the jungle mod) a little more closely. Jamsque posted:The only mods I would recommend for new starters are Long Reach and Autofill, which are both very simple tweaks that change nothing about the game's balance but make your life easier. WhiteHowler posted:I'll never start a new game without Train Immunity.
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Mar 31, 2016 03:48
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Loren1350 posted:I feel like Long Reach breaks some challenge scenario possibilities, which makes it a balance issue, so I don't like it on that principle. In general, anything that just straight up makes an existing mechanic easier (especially for free) feels cheaty to me. For some reason I have no problem with Autofill, though it does make an already cheesy tactic even easier. I don't think I really agree with this. Making things more convenient without affecting the overall balance of the game is not cheaty. It's still not cheaty even if you can think of a hypothetical challenge scenario where it would break the overall balance. Now if there actually was a challenge scenario that used the limited interaction range as a key part of its balance, using it in that scenario to bypass that restriction would be cheaty. Autofill is actually way more cheaty by any metric, since it's not actually that much of a convenience any more (now that burner inserters start with enough fuel to immediately refuel themselves), and the situation where it actually affects the game balance comes up way more often in real play. But even then, if you have the self-discipline to not do cheesy turret pushes that wouldn't work without autofill, it's still not cheaty.
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Mar 31, 2016 04:02
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I've been reading that Steam power->electric furnaces uses up twice as much coal as burner furnaces...anyone got the math on that because that seems really odd.
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Mar 31, 2016 04:07
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Krysmphoenix posted:I've been reading that Steam power->electric furnaces uses up twice as much coal as burner furnaces...anyone got the math on that because that seems really odd. All furnaces use exactly the same amount of energy per unit smelted. Burner furnaces are 100% efficient, and use all of the joules in the fuel for smelting. The Boiler->Steam Engine chain is 50% efficient, and only turns half the fuel energy into electricity.
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Mar 31, 2016 04:12
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Ratzap posted:5 regular ones plus some stuff make an alien one. The alien ones explode for about 20 seconds locally then there's like a circular atom bomb shockwave that spreads out for thousands of tiles (if the trees extend that far) and lag your game to hell. If you've never see it, it'd be worth rolling a game just to watch. Now with video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku4mFdMEinY
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Mar 31, 2016 04:26
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I know mods have a nuclear reactor already but it'd be pretty neat if something like that was in the base game. Put, I dunno, Alien Artifacts in it to fuel it and it produces gigawatts for hours.
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Mar 31, 2016 04:33
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Node posted:Do I need a huge amount of oil refineries to keep eight chemical plants producing plastic bars? I have the heavy and light oil being poured into storage tanks, and the pipes carrying all the petroleum gas can only keep the first chemical plant fully stocked with it. I feel like I am doing something wrong, unless it really takes that many refineries to feed one chemical plant. Read this guy's post, it's the ratios you're looking for. Loren1350 posted:I can confirm from personal interactions with the author that he did not do it to be balanced, he did it because it looks cool. You can tell him he succeeded, I love setting them off. Overpowered as all get out, outrageously fun - they make you want to grow all the trees back and do it again. The long reach one I don't use either, it's too cheesy for my taste. You have a short reach because arms you know. I got some time to continue the forest game tonight. Finished off oil so I could get blue science going and while advanced oil processing was on the way (always my first blue science) laid concrete over the whole area. Welcome to the concrete Jungle my alien friends. With the oil cracking properly and running nicely I went off to war to the south. The flamethrower made blazing a trail fairly simple and once I got in range the bugs went mad chewing the trees to get to me. Grenades made a nice circular fire base and I ran in dropping turrets to claim areas between healing. It was easy enough (if somewhat drawn out) that I had ammo left to bite a chunk into the big area to the west. This is turning out to be a fun scenario, the start is not too great with so much manual labour but once you have a few tools it's proper jungle warefare. I only lost 1 turret in the attacks when I stumbled over 4 big worms and ran away leaving the turret to kill what it could. You can see the outline of their village (plus a few grenade patches) in the radar view. If I don't get too gung-ho I can win this thing.  
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Mar 31, 2016 04:49
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Whew, the aliens are relentless and on all sides in this new game I'm on. Had to wall off my whole structure and surround myself with turrets and automate armor-piercing ammo, which is a first. I've managed to barely destroy a couple of hives... Time to start working towards researching a tank, methinks.
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Mar 31, 2016 07:47
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Node posted:Do I need a huge amount of oil refineries to keep eight chemical plants producing plastic bars? I have the heavy and light oil being poured into storage tanks, and the pipes carrying all the petroleum gas can only keep the first chemical plant fully stocked with it. I feel like I am doing something wrong, unless it really takes that many refineries to feed one chemical plant. I decided to do more math because I was bored in class today and also I need to start thinking about petro for my own stuff. As said by other posters, it really does take that many. 1 chemical plant making plastic bars consumes 3.75 petro gas per second to produce 2.5 plastic bars per second. 8 factories therefore require 30 petro gas per second. 1 refinery with regular oil processing makes 4 petro gas every 5 seconds. (And light oil and heavy oil, of course.) To get 30 petro gas per second, you need 38 refineries, which will consume 76 crude oil per second. 1 advanced oil processing refinery makes 5.5 petro gas + 1 heavy oil + 4.5 light every 5 seconds. A chemical plant with light oil cracking consumes 3 light oil and produces 2 petro gas every 4 seconds. 5 advanced oil refineries + 6 light oil cracking plants will produce 8.5 petro gas per second and 1 heavy oil per second, with all of the light oil consumed by cracking. You still need 30 petro gas per second, so you're looking at 20 refineries and 24 chemical plants, with plenty of petro gas left over for a sulfer production plant or two. That's a few more buildings, but they're only consuming 40 crude oil per second. What you're doing with 20 plastic per second is your own business.
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Mar 31, 2016 18:04
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Speedball posted:Whew, the aliens are relentless and on all sides in this new game I'm on. Had to wall off my whole structure and surround myself with turrets and automate armor-piercing ammo, which is a first. I've managed to barely destroy a couple of hives... Don't get me wrong, always build a tank just because but as a killing tool they're kinda poor. Get your turret damage upgrades and with AP you can flatten anything. Ditto lasers which do it even easier but you need to take the power poles with you. The tank is good at running poo poo over, the machine gun is ok but the cannon is definitely 'meh'. Shoot a spawner and you'll be waist deep in biters before it's half dead. The tank has lots of trunk space though for extra ammo. I also don't get the 'surround with turrets' bit some people have. Dred does the same in our MP games. I point out that the only places they're coming from are covered but he always wants to build a wall round the whole drat place and have hundreds of turrets packed in.  Solumin posted:What you're doing with 20 plastic per second is your own business. Alien sex toys? Turns them peaceful but they breed like crazy?
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Mar 31, 2016 18:31
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Ratzap posted:Don't get me wrong, always build a tank just because but as a killing tool they're kinda poor. Get your turret damage upgrades and with AP you can flatten anything. Ditto lasers which do it even easier but you need to take the power poles with you. The tank is good at running poo poo over, the machine gun is ok but the cannon is definitely 'meh'. Shoot a spawner and you'll be waist deep in biters before it's half dead. The tank has lots of trunk space though for extra ammo. I also don't get the 'surround with turrets' bit some people have. Dred does the same in our MP games. I point out that the only places they're coming from are covered but he always wants to build a wall round the whole drat place and have hundreds of turrets packed in. spergshaming
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Mar 31, 2016 18:34
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Ratzap posted:Don't get me wrong, always build a tank just because but as a killing tool they're kinda poor. Get your turret damage upgrades and with AP you can flatten anything. Ditto lasers which do it even easier but you need to take the power poles with you. The tank is good at running poo poo over, the machine gun is ok but the cannon is definitely 'meh'. Shoot a spawner and you'll be waist deep in biters before it's half dead. The tank has lots of trunk space though for extra ammo. I also don't get the 'surround with turrets' bit some people have. Dred does the same in our MP games. I point out that the only places they're coming from are covered but he always wants to build a wall round the whole drat place and have hundreds of turrets packed in. The direction the aliens come from changes as new bases are covered by pollution. I only use turrets where I expect trouble too and I end up repairing my power plant at least once a game. Wall of turrets fixes that.
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Mar 31, 2016 18:43
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MrYenko posted:I have probably 300hrs in this godamned game and I've still never even built the rocket defense/launched the rocket. I'm same. Same with minecraft. I also probably have >300 hours in that and never even seen, much less killed the end dragon. There's just too much building to do, and not enough time.
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Mar 31, 2016 18:45
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LLSix posted:The direction the aliens come from changes as new bases are covered by pollution. I only use turrets where I expect trouble too and I end up repairing my power plant at least once a game. Wall of turrets fixes that. Amen to this. New biter nests spawn = new direction of attack. Pollution spreads further out into the map = undiscovered biter nests get aggro and attack from different directions. Wall of turrets are a far simpler solution and easy to maintain. Better than getting attacked from an unknown direction and having biters rampage through your base.
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Mar 31, 2016 18:48
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 Current base; plenty of local resources, for now, anyway, including oil, doing pretty good on research speed, circuits, and so on. Maybe it's not SUPER efficient, but nothing is running out of what it's supposed to be building at the moment, which is all I ask for. Only trouble is, lots of big hives all around me, so as I said, I've got turrets on most sides and have had to wall off mostly everything. Those automatic gates are pretty handy.
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Mar 31, 2016 19:42
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Please guys take screenshots during the day unless you're showing off sweet mood lighting.  That's a good looking base.
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Mar 31, 2016 19:50
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Loopoo posted:Amen to this. New biter nests spawn = new direction of attack. Pollution spreads further out into the map = undiscovered biter nests get aggro and attack from different directions. A wall of turrets is just a pain if you need to push it out for expansion purposes. I find it's better to build little feeler outposts out in directions that your factory is growing towards. Load it up with a cluster of turrets and a radar and it should be the nearest point of pollution for close-by biter nests to prioritize (barring pollution spreading across a large body of water). If you've been doing your pruning properly (ie before pollution overlaps nests) as you built up your factory this should result in newly created nests quickly spotted and then dealt with before their forces build too much for the outpost to handle. At least, this is true for default settings. For my current game I had only one partially assembled wall that was protecting an important iron deposit. It was the only one I had found "nearby" (I had to run a train link over to it) and my starting position's deposit was shortly running out. It certainly helped prevent a couple incursions until I could suit up for the stronger enemies and worms but now it's kind of useless because all those nests are now gone and pollution isn't going to increase in the medium term. Mind this might fall back to how I approach the game: kill problems before they get bigger.  Quick eradication of the nests nearest you before the medium biters/spitters/worms are in force can be done with a shotgun + machinegun with piercing rounds and steel armour. Spray machinegun to clear out the biters, switch to shotgun to blast down the nests and small worms, and then alternate as more biters spawn. Once medium stuff show up sporadically the auto-shotgun and poison capsules can break down small to medium sized nests with some difficulty. Though once you've got medium and then big guys spawning you're basically stuck in a tank doing kiting runs until you can get your power armour assembled and capsules/bots built in force.
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Mar 31, 2016 20:52
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Boogalo posted:Please guys take screenshots during the day unless you're showing off sweet mood lighting. code:I'm sure goons are going to make all sorts of need stuff when the colorable lamps are added.
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Mar 31, 2016 20:55
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Solumin posted:
Oh my god when there are colored lamps you will never see me again as I craft elaborate circuit network monstrosities. Hell, you may never see me again anyway at this rate. I looked at my watch four times last night, it was at least an hour later every time I did, and I only managed to pull myself to bed at 5am. Please send help.
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Mar 31, 2016 21:42
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MrYenko posted:I have probably 300hrs in this godamned game and I've still never even built the rocket defense/launched the rocket.
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Mar 31, 2016 21:56
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I've already started wiring inventory meters to my train station with normal lamps. Colored lamps could mean dangerous things about how much I concentrate on spurious but cool circuit contraptions vs actually expanding so that the inventory in the train station stops mattering so much.
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Mar 31, 2016 22:04
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Dessert Rose posted:Oh my god when there are colored lamps you will never see me again as I craft elaborate circuit network monstrosities. They talk about it in this Friday Facts article: https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-122 It's not explicitly mentioned in the 0.13 roadmap, but since they do mention improving the circuit networks, I think it's in. The first night I played this game, I ended up pulling an all-nighter. It's scary but so much fun...
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Mar 31, 2016 22:09
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Dessert Rose posted:Oh my god when there are colored lamps you will never see me again as I craft elaborate circuit network monstrosities. zedprime posted:I've already started wiring inventory meters to my train station with normal lamps. Colored lamps could mean dangerous things about how much I concentrate on spurious but cool circuit contraptions vs actually expanding so that the inventory in the train station stops mattering so much. Here you go.
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Mar 31, 2016 22:10
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So I'm a bit dim, what's the logic behind having faster belts? It seems like once you get up to saturation it doesn't matter how fast the ground underneath is moving, but I'm totally willing to be wrong on this. Also what's the pro-con on belts vs. trains for long distances?
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Mar 31, 2016 22:21
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Which mod is "RSO"? Searches on the Factorio forum and the factoriomods.com site. Goons seem to recommend it, but I cant work out what it is.
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Mar 31, 2016 22:23
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RSO is Resource Spawner Overhaul: https://forums.factorio.com/viewforum.php?f=79
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Mar 31, 2016 22:25
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Maimgara posted:Which mod is "RSO"? Searches on the Factorio forum and the factoriomods.com site. Goons seem to recommend it, but I cant work out what it is. Resource Spawner Overhaul
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Mar 31, 2016 22:26
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Tulip posted:So I'm a bit dim, what's the logic behind having faster belts? It seems like once you get up to saturation it doesn't matter how fast the ground underneath is moving, but I'm totally willing to be wrong on this. Faster belts move more materials per minute at full saturation. Belts are great for short distances, but inefficient for long ones. Also, one set of tracks can satisfy multiple types of trains.
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Mar 31, 2016 22:27
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Tulip posted:So I'm a bit dim, what's the logic behind having faster belts? It seems like once you get up to saturation it doesn't matter how fast the ground underneath is moving, but I'm totally willing to be wrong on this.
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Mar 31, 2016 22:29
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Tulip posted:So I'm a bit dim, what's the logic behind having faster belts? It seems like once you get up to saturation it doesn't matter how fast the ground underneath is moving, but I'm totally willing to be wrong on this. If your resources are backing up, then no, you don't need faster belts. If your factories need more of a resource, and it's backing up somewhere on the path to them, that's when faster belts are needed. A transport belt can carry about 13 items a second through a given tile. If your factories are using more than (eg) 13 iron plates a second, then it doesn't matter how many more than that your furnaces are producing - the belt is just too slow to carry that many plates to your factories, and it will get backed up in the middle even though the further-out factories are starved. That's when you want either two parallel belts, to carry more items, or one fast belt, to carry twice as many in the same space. There's really not much purpose to fast belts other than that. Getting items through your factory faster doesn't actually affect anything other than how quickly your factory responds to changes in your supplies. I guess having two yellow belts merge onto a red belt can prevent the belts backing up, if you're wanting to get two different resources onto the same belt, but it's still the same basic concept. Tenebrais fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Mar 31, 2016 |
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Mar 31, 2016 22:34
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Tulip posted:So I'm a bit dim, what's the logic behind having faster belts? It seems like once you get up to saturation it doesn't matter how fast the ground underneath is moving, but I'm totally willing to be wrong on this. Faster belts will move more of a resource past a certain point over the same period of time. Thus, you can run more assemblers off of a full blue belt than a full red, and more off of a full red than a full yellow. In practice, of course, there's no reason not to use blues everywhere regardless of what you're doing with the resources on a particular line - loading/unloading buffers, increasing the amount of ore mined/smelted, and increasing the number of assemblers you can run at once all benefit, so why use anything less?
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Mar 31, 2016 22:38
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Kenlon posted:Faster belts will move more of a resource past a certain point over the same period of time. Thus, you can run more assemblers off of a full blue belt than a full red, and more off of a full red than a full yellow. Blues are stupidly expensive, but yeah, once iron isn't scarce, making blue belt is a good use of resources.
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Mar 31, 2016 22:44
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Dirk the Average posted:Blues are stupidly expensive, but yeah, once iron isn't scarce, making blue belt is a good use of resources. If you have the space to bus you could make an argument about 2 red belts next to each other being iron-cheaper for capacity but its not like you have a resource shortage to talk about if you are at the stage where you start wondering how best to fill 2 red belts or 1 blue belt full.
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Mar 31, 2016 22:50
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Ok that thing about pulling resources off the line makes a lot of sense, I'll definitely keep that in mind. I think once I get a second copper line on (oh my god I'm so copper starved) I'll probably have to take advantage of that, even though I've got two lines. Green factories are so goddamn thirsty.Ratzap posted:The tank is good at running poo poo over, the machine gun is ok but the cannon is definitely 'meh'. Shoot a spawner and you'll be waist deep in biters before it's half dead. It takes 2 shots from the cannon to kill a spawner in vanilla. The cannon is mostly useful because it's like 3 shots to kill a big worm from outside the worm's range.
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Mar 31, 2016 22:51
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Solumin posted:What you're doing with 20 plastic per second is your own business. I was following along Negative Root's youtube tutorial, and he built that many, so I thought that was how much I needed. I cut down my plastic plants to two, which is definitely enough for now. Ratzap posted:Read this guy's post, it's the ratios you're looking for. Thanks for this link, that was more or less what I was looking for. My brain still hurts. I don't really like how, if refineries can't output one good, the other two goods stop. The only solution (until I saw this link) was to have a bunch of storage tanks for light and heavy oil, and blow them up to empty them out, rebuild them, repeat. Hopefully that ratio works, since it kinda takes the automation out of Factorio to have to babysit those resources.
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Mar 31, 2016 23:16
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Node posted:I was following along Negative Root's youtube tutorial, and he built that many, so I thought that was how much I needed. I cut down my plastic plants to two, which is definitely enough for now. At least when I'm not trying to find new oil sources. e. its the game designs fault, not new players fault zedprime fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Mar 31, 2016 |
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Mar 31, 2016 23:22
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zedprime posted:Having no good use for light and heavy oil while you figure out blue science is maybe one of the higher profile crimes. If you understand the supply chain in subsequent games you can research advanced processing before a tank even approaches full, and once you get advanced processing, you can trade in ratios for circuit networks using pumps to trim production in crackers without following the one true ratio and that makes it one of my favorite parts of the game. guilty of this first game.
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Mar 31, 2016 23:24
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Node posted:I was following along Negative Root's youtube tutorial, and he built that many, so I thought that was how much I needed. I cut down my plastic plants to two, which is definitely enough for now. Blowing them up is unnecessary, you can just pick them up and they'll empty automatically. (Video games!) Two other options are to attach a steam engine (it'll automatically destroy any liquid you put in it -- attach a couple boilers for extra electricity. Video games!!) or use a mod like GotLag's Flare Stack, which adds a building that burns off extra liquids. zedprime posted:Having no good use for light and heavy oil while you figure out blue science is maybe one of the higher profile crimes of this games design. If you understand the supply chain in subsequent games you can research advanced processing before a tank even approaches full, and once you get advanced processing, you can trade in ratios for circuit networks using pumps to trim production in crackers without following the one true ratio and that makes it one of my favorite parts of the game.  I'm planning how I'm going to build my petrochemical factory, and the current approach is "rush batteries and plastic to get blue science underway so I can unlock advanced oil processing, and then fix the petrochem factory." Oil is weird in that the first tier of research is useless -- you really need fluid handling to get anything useful out of it, and advanced oil processing overshadows it completely.
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Apr 1, 2016 00:00
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Solumin posted:Blowing them up is unnecessary, you can just pick them up and they'll empty automatically. (Video games!) Two other options are to attach a steam engine (it'll automatically destroy any liquid you put in it -- attach a couple boilers for extra electricity. Video games!!) or use a mod like GotLag's Flare Stack, which adds a building that burns off extra liquids. The real solution is to keep expanding your tank farm until you research cracking. Then you crack it, and enjoy the brief window in the game when you have no problems getting enough petro gas. If it's still backing up even then, you need to build more crackers.
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Apr 1, 2016 00:15
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Loopoo posted:Amen to this. New biter nests spawn = new direction of attack. Pollution spreads further out into the map = undiscovered biter nests get aggro and attack from different directions. Pfft, keep an eye on your radar and pre-emptively strike every close base. Walling round your factory makes it a PITA to expand properly, bunker outposts if necessary at most. In our latest MP game Dred was about to start the walls and guns thing again so I went out and killed every base within 3 or 4 widths of our pollution plume. Yes we'll grow and the plume will move/get bigger but I'll just go out and kill all the new nests. Don't need to turtle up. zedprime posted:Having no good use for light and heavy oil while you figure out blue science is maybe one of the higher profile crimes of this games design. This is true unless you make a lot of flamethrower fuel. In 0.13 they are bringing in flamethrower turrets... Node posted:I was following along Negative Root's youtube tutorial, and he built that many, so I thought that was how much I needed. I cut down my plastic plants to two, which is definitely enough for now. Once you have advanced oil processing, build 2 small pumps, some storage tanks and a couple of bits of red/green wire. Put a pump on the output of your heavy and light storage tanks, click the wire on the tank then on the pump. Click the pump and set the wire condition to heavy or light oil depending on which tank you're doing and > 500 (or some other arbitrary number). Then attach all your cracking factories to the pump output and nowhere else. Walk away because you now never need to come back. Heavy will still go to make lubricant but it it builds up over the number you set it gets cracked. Light gets cracked over the number you set. If you have sufficient cracking capacity (1 heavy 6 light I think it was for 5 refineries) the only time it will back up is when the LPG tanks are full.
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Apr 1, 2016 01:03
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