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Lime Tonics posted:Every time something happens on the ship, to the ship, etc, it updates the server and every client. Croberts thinks one day 1000 people will be on the same instance. So when Chris was talking about the complexity of the ships and the number of individual components on them in a past 10FTC, he was referring to each ship being composed of a number of flat XML files? And those files contain both the details and the state of each object and have to be synced in real time between the server and all the clients? And the server is ticking at 10-15 frames? Have I got that right? 
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Apr 5, 2016 02:02
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Tippis posted:That works as an excuse on the surface, but it becomes patently ridiculous if you think about it for two seconds. The net/ops teams would have (or should have) spotted that problem and done something about it the first time they saw the code for updating the client. Maaaaaybe the second, if they had been out partying heavily all night and were too coked up to see straight the first time. Blithering idiocy and drool-filled keyboards may have bought them a third and forth look before doing anything, but beyond that, they failed completely at their job and should no longer be on the project. This is a good post and directly relates to stuff that shitizens have been saying ever since 2.0 came out, namely: now that the engine is "done" and the frame work is all laid out, all they have to do is add (a shitload of) content. But it just isn't true. It seems like at the very least the engine requires MASSIVE work (the stuff mentioned by you, plus things like only 24 people per instance, plus the fact that the instance merging/managing system is likely completely non-existent since all they have now are completely separate instances, etc). And at "worst" they really need to start over from scratch.
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Apr 5, 2016 02:03
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runsamok posted:
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Apr 5, 2016 02:04
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A Neurotic Jew posted:It will start with the former. People have alot saved up over all this time. They'll be worth pennies though. There's currently no method of acquiring the former, so unless they implement one, it will entirely be the latter. The ones they've "saved up" have been through buying them with RL cash or them being included with packages purchased for RL cash.
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Apr 5, 2016 02:05
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Hey Lando, i know which account on here is yours, I sent you a PM. Ive got a question that i would seriously like given to Chris. For all the lovely questions he gets, i know you can slip one real one in.
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Apr 5, 2016 02:07
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SomethingJones posted:So when Chris was talking about the complexity of the ships and the number of individual components on them in a past 10FTC, he was referring to each ship being composed of a number of flat XML files? And those files contain both the details and the state of each object and have to be synced in real time between the server and all the clients? And the server is ticking at 10-15 frames? Somehow he has the magic netcode to make it work. Just got to have faith. I had to write a simple netcode thingy for school once, gently caress that. Netcode for mmorpgs is like 70~80% of the game, how some people make it work they are modern day wizards.
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Apr 5, 2016 02:08
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Star Citizen : Procedurally Generated Failure.
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Apr 5, 2016 02:09
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Ragequit posted:Lol what in the world are you even saying. All I am getting at is you are a million times more invested in the outcome of this game compared to anyone else, and that most people honestly do not care. And because of that, the thread will not continue on for months after the company dissolves or whatever supposed catastrophic dinosaur-ending-event is supposed to hit. oh-ok. From your "The magnitude of cares for most people is still the same, which is the point." I get what you mean now. But still, I don't think I'm the only one who cares this much though. Surely someone heavily invested in JPEGs cares a LOT more than me 
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Apr 5, 2016 02:09
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Guys I don't think Chris Roberts understands cloud storage.
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Apr 5, 2016 02:10
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FrankieGoes posted:There's currently no method of acquiring the former, so unless they implement one, it will entirely be the latter. The ones they've "saved up" have been through buying them with RL cash or them being included with packages purchased for RL cash. well that's the "UEC", they also have "REC" that can be acquired through Arena Commander. I'm basing this off of Lesnick responding to criticisms of the in-game car dealership by saying that it will only take in game currency, and then later mentioning that the currency won't correlate exactly to "real world prices".
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Apr 5, 2016 02:11
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FrankieGoes posted:This is a good post and directly relates to stuff that shitizens have been saying ever since 2.0 came out, namely: now that the engine is "done" and the frame work is all laid out, all they have to do is add (a shitload of) content. But it just isn't true. It seems like at the very least the engine requires MASSIVE work (the stuff mentioned by you, plus things like only 24 people per instance, plus the fact that the instance merging/managing system is likely completely non-existent since all they have now are completely separate instances, etc). And at "worst" they really need to start over from scratch. None of the shitizens even blink when Croberts farts out "massive back-end re-write": A Neurotic Jew posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6g-ECx-7xw&t=1256s
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Apr 5, 2016 02:12
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SomethingJones posted:Guys I don't think Chris Roberts understands cloud storage. No need to specify cloud storage.
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Apr 5, 2016 02:12
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Tequila Sunrise posted:Guy who believes China is world's new financial center is, shockingly, Star Citizen backer and Chris Roberts fan. Despite this person's misgivings about Star Citizen they are not far off. Perhaps we should all take a look at China's economy. GDP China 19+ trillion United States 17.4 Trillion Growth Rate (Real) China 6.8% US 2.4% Gross National Savings China 47% US 18% Labor Force China 804 million US 154 million Exports China 2.27 Trillion US 1.6 Trillion Debt (external) China 949 billion US 17.62 trillion Exactly how is he wrong? Keep in mind I teach economics for a living. They beat the U.S. in every category that matters. Hell even their inflation rate is healthier than ours.
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Apr 5, 2016 02:15
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Quavers posted:Star Citizen: A It's more ephemeral than temporary, given that it's in maintenance mode so it'll be staying as-is for a while…
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Apr 5, 2016 02:16
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Galarox posted:On this day in History: thread gold
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Apr 5, 2016 02:16
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Whatever happened to that German auditor person???
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Apr 5, 2016 02:17
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Loiosh posted:There's not much the net/ops team can do about data structures that are bad. I posted about this earlier, but the problem is the way CryEngine serializes loads and how complex the ship objects are in Star Citizen. For a developer who is not delivering much, they sure are doing a ton on the back-end and part of that shows up on the network side when you see how complex the ship loads are. To fix it, they're moving to a much easier design where the server and client understand ship objects as a whole, then the delta (difference between standard ship and the player's current loadout) is sent. Right now, it sends the entire loadout every time. No, they can't do that because it would break the server loading of assets that require textures. The only way they can fix it, is to have the server stream in the assets and maintain a specialized server-side cache. In fact, Chris explained (which I'm sure came from his engineers explaining it to him) the problem in this latest 104TC, but he botched it (the explanation) - as usual, and probably because he doesn't understand it enough to explain it adequately. The issue is that the server, like the client, needs to load all those loving complex assets. And guess what, if the server is loading it - when each client logs on - it will cause lag spikes due to the server loading those assets, while still trying to serve data packets. Remember, CryEngine has a very rudimentary networking kernel that was designed for games like Crysis and it's ilk which use a peer-to-peer style networking layer; though you can hack in a client-server approach if you wanted to. The end result is that, there is no way under the Sun whereby they are going to build an MMO game out of the StarEngine. They are going to, at best, wrangle 16-24 players *per instance* out of it, and call it a day. Good luck getting NPCs in there, other than the scripted drones (see pirates). So that much-touted Starfarer? hosed. All those Spergs who bought one, will be lucky to be flying around with 3 people, let alone the full screw complement. I can't wait to read the part where they decide to either port to Unity5 or to Lumberyard, Amazon's version of CryEngine4. Not to mention CryEngine5 which is more advanced/modern than CryEngine4.
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Apr 5, 2016 02:17
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MeLKoR posted:If we are going to wait for Derek's predictions to come true before creating a new thread then we'll have a new thread in... two weeks? Derek Smart posted:Two weeks. Derek Smart posted:It won't. Derek Smart posted:Bookmark this page... Derek Smart posted:Let me loving finish! Derek Smart posted:Derek Smart posted:and so it begins.
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Apr 5, 2016 02:18
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Darkpriest667 posted:
You teach economics and you don't understand how China is basically prolonging their inevitable financial collapse, and the subsequent social upheaval that will come from it. 
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Apr 5, 2016 02:19
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Darkpriest667 posted:Despite this person's misgivings about Star Citizen they are not far off. Perhaps we should all take a look at China's economy. He's wrong because the only info on China is put out by the Chinese and you can't take their word for it. China is the national version of CIG. It's like when Mao demanded China produce the most steel out of any country in the world, so everyone melted down pots and pans and farming implements in their backyard. Technically they did produce the most steel in the world- except most of it was completely unusable. China is constructing entire ghost cities right now but you'd have to be willfully ignorant to think that constitutes progress.
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Apr 5, 2016 02:20
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Darkpriest667 posted:i am an economist Wrong thread
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Apr 5, 2016 02:20
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In response to people saying that Derek's code thing hyped us up for nothing, just like Chris Roberts, at least Derek didn't charge $15,000 for it. Also a new theory I want to call is that Ben has some ridiculous salary. It wouldn't come out until after this all collapses but when you see how they buy expensive cars, restaurant grade coffee machines, tens of thousands in airplane furniture and you hear stories of five figures in first class international flights and limited edition Porsche and mansions? Of course they would have nepotism like that. Ben is Chris' biggest fanboy and he and his wife get jobs to literally do nothing and they both gain a million pounds directly afterwards? They are probably clearing like 10x the wage of some of the actual workers there. People with no willpower are being given enough money to eat unlimited amounts of whatever they want. Like before he maybe couldn't eat pizza every five minutes and had to have a budget and couldn't get that disgusting but now he is pulling down like $14,000 a week and can eat literally anything and everything he wants whenever he wants. I know people are speculating that it's the stress or the knowledge of what a scam this whole thing is that causing him to be unhealthy, but he is still a huge loving rear end in a top hat to everyone so I don't think there is any remorse or stress there.
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Apr 5, 2016 02:20
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"we can't let china get ahead of us in space races" Lmao, yeah, that matters soooooooooooooo much right now.
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Apr 5, 2016 02:21
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Jesus loving Christmas.
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Apr 5, 2016 02:21
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Ragequit posted:99.99% of people care about this exponentially less than you. A vocal minority might have stake, but that's a tiny subset of people. How many is "Far too many"? Personally, I'm really looking forward to followup screenshots of the most notorious shitizens' reactions post-collapse. I'm hoping a few enterprising goons will go so far as to track them spouting disbelief/frustration/rationalization on sites outside reddit or RSI. I also wanna see what happens to all of the principal figures of CIG, especially C-Robz, Sandi, Ben, Jared, and Ortwin. Not to mention other devs commenting on it, or how it affects crowdfunding as a whole. The OUYA thread was still entertaining for a good while post-implosion for the same reasons. E: I see I was soundly beaten to expressing this sentiment, because i didn't refresh and missed literally four full pages of posts.
Wise Learned Man fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Apr 5, 2016 |
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Apr 5, 2016 02:22
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Hey toops I've got a couple of my old 3d models that I could fix up and donate to SP, This fighter right here:  And this massive BC (normals are busted on this model and need to be fixed, that's why you see weird rear end shading in places.): https://sketchfab.com/models/3b0ecf6c9ab649c187ff7c1f00b19a05
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Apr 5, 2016 02:22
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A Neurotic Jew posted:well that's the "UEC", they also have "REC" that can be acquired through Arena Commander. We will see how it all goes over once the champagne trays are flying around the ship showrooms...
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Apr 5, 2016 02:22
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Chrome it out and it'd make a good Sperg fighter.
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Apr 5, 2016 02:23
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A Neurotic Jew posted:the complete sparsity of patch notes since March fits pretty well with Derek claims of SC going into total maintenance mode. That's PRECISELY what he has been preparing them for in the recent AtV appearance (first ever IIRC) and now this 104TC. They CANNOT be making ANY major changes to the PU, while doing these changes he is talking about. If they do, they're back in "Star Marine" gently caress-up territory where swathes of code had to be dumped since it couldn't be merged effortlessly. So yes, the current 2x is totally in maintenance mode and they're only going to make minimal fixes/tweaks which can easily be merged into the new ( v3.x?) stuff he claims they're working on. Here is the kicker. They have 200 people worldwide building massive game. Only 4 (!!!!!) network engineers. Seriously, that should be a massive Red flag for a $111M project.
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Apr 5, 2016 02:23
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D_Smart posted:Here is the kicker. They have 200 people worldwide building massive game. Only 4 (!!!!!) network engineers. Seriously, that should be a massive Red flag for a $111M project. i think you'll find this is completely normal, you must just not understand game development, and furthermore
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Apr 5, 2016 02:25
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Tippis posted:…and in doing so, the answer back to the coders is “we cannot make this diarrhoea pass through the network stack — make it stop.” Ok, it's a white lie — you actually mean “let” rather than ”make” but the effect is the same. To be fair to the rank and file the problem could entirely be the cokehead in charge. I can't imagine trying to get anything productive done with a Genius Visionary hovering his well-sanded nostrils over my shoulder and telling me that my code should use the letter X more often to make it X-TREME.
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Apr 5, 2016 02:26
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The ele is switching to a new engine, bookmark this post.
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Apr 5, 2016 02:26
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Tippis posted:That works as an excuse on the surface, but it becomes patently ridiculous if you think about it for two seconds. The net/ops teams would have (or should have) spotted that problem and done something about it the first time they saw the code for updating the client. Maaaaaybe the second, if they had been out partying heavily all night and were too coked up to see straight the first time. Blithering idiocy and drool-filled keyboards may have bought them a third and forth look before doing anything, but beyond that, they failed completely at their job and should no longer be on the project. ^this same
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Apr 5, 2016 02:28
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Bolow posted:You teach economics and you don't understand how China is basically prolonging their inevitable financial collapse, and the subsequent social upheaval that will come from it. Financial collapse? They are the largest exporter in the world, they are in a recession RIGHT NOW and have a better growth rate than we do. How exactly are they doomed to financial collapse oh wise one?
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Apr 5, 2016 02:29
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Justin Tyme posted:Chrome it out and it'd make a good Sperg fighter. The big ship is probably gonna fit in as "Smart" Class battlecruiser 3000 with a fancy name like "Let Me loving Finish"
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Apr 5, 2016 02:29
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Justin Tyme posted:He's wrong because the only info on China is put out by the Chinese and you can't take their word for it. China is the national version of CIG. The information is from the CIA factbook not the Chinese government. They report from a different source. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ch.html Have you been to China in the past 5 years? I have and you can tell it's booming.
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Apr 5, 2016 02:32
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Fat Shat Sings posted:In response to people saying that Derek's code thing hyped us up for nothing, just like Chris Roberts, at least Derek didn't charge $15,000 for it. We're not making up stuff for the fun of it here. That's what RSI forums are for.
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Apr 5, 2016 02:32
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D_Smart posted:
I'm sure there's going to be plenty of screwing and complimenting but has anybody everprofessed a burning desire to be 2nd under lieutenant shitbird sitting at the engineering screen or in the cargo bay while captain jackass does all the flying and has the actual fun? It's more likely that there will be 20 different Starfarers flying around with brain-dead NPC crew clipping out of the ship during hard turns.
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Apr 5, 2016 02:32
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D_Smart posted:^this I said their netcode was crap 2 years ago and was not listened to. They knew about the problem at the end of 2013 and have done gently caress all about it. There is no way they can fix it now.
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Apr 5, 2016 02:33
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Wise Learned Man posted:Personally, I'm really looking forward to followup screenshots of the most notorious shitizens' reactions post-collapse. I'm hoping a few enterprising goons will go so far as to track them spouting disbelief/frustration/rationalization on sites outside reddit or RSI. I also wanna see what happens to all of the principal figures of CIG, especially C-Robz, Sandi, Ben, Jared, and Ortwin. Not to mention other devs commenting on it, or how it affects crowdfunding as a whole. Wasn't there a video game awhile back that made the Kinect take a picture of you the moment you were killed or your car crashed or something? Implement that post haste for the game client and then when this goes tits up make the client crash to desktop, display a rude message about the state of everything, and take a picture. It may even trump the Nightmare Fear Factory Flickr.
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Apr 5, 2016 02:33
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