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Also when you want to take the one belt you carry in your pocket and shift-drag a new swath of bus, and the personal bots snatch it out of your hands to go install it.  Speedball posted:Hmm, so if I want to pave huge areas with pre-designed stuff, I'm gonna need to have all the stuff that will be built either in my inventory already, including facilities, or in Logistics storage. Looks like I might need to automate a hell of a lot more stuff, then. You can just stamp down the blueprint and then check the tooltip on the warning next to your hotbar to see what things it can't find. Then build those things and logistics-trash them and the problem solves itself! But yes, assemblers building assemblers are good to have.
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Apr 4, 2016 20:03
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Yup. Sometimes it's easier to automate the really common stuff, like pipes, belts and inserters, so that the construction robots can immediately place those. Then you handle the other things, like assembling machines or chem plants, by hand and let your personal 'bots take those. (Or throw the items in a trash slot and let the logistics network take care of it.) But I really do strongly suggest automating those other components! I have an assembling machine factory, it's pretty cool and really simple to make. I noticed that a lot of items have similar dependencies -- for example, inserters, long-arm inserters and fast inserters need similar base components, which assembling machines 1 and assembling machines 2 also need! So you can make one long chain of factories for those. The same with chemical plants, pumpjacks and refineries -- they all need pipes, iron gear wheels, green circuits and steel.
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Apr 4, 2016 20:04
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Crafting is peasants' work. You know you've really made it as a captain of industry when instead of deigning to put a couple things together in your inventory, you just create a whole new assembly line for it. The closest you ever get to peasants' work should be setting the requester chests up on your modular batch manufacturing line.
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Apr 4, 2016 20:07
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Speedball posted:Looks like I might need to automate a hell of a lot more stuff, then. This is always the answer
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Apr 4, 2016 20:22
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"A section of straight rail costs 5.5 iron plate equivalents and one unprocessed stone, covering two tiles. A section of basic transport belt costs 3 iron plates per tile. Factor in the cost of the engine, power, and stations (including unloaders) and you'd probably looking at rail being a novelty until you're sending stuff over dozens of chunks," is a dumb thought I've had before. The REAL saving in rail is pushing multiple belts worth of goods in two directions along the same line, provided your distance to density ratios hold (and if they don't, just build more trains to run on the same tracks for a hell of a lot less than entirely new belts!) Does the second campaign cover Smartgear, Oil, etc? I only did the first one to get the basics down before diving in for my first game. 31 hours to the rocket. I noticed a couple of distinctly painful 'beats' in the game which ALMOST got me to go to bed on time:
The flamethrower, shotgun and HE tank shells are useless in the current version. AP tank shells are many, many, many times better than HE and cheaper to boot. Even with AP ammo (at the final level of miltech for some stupid reason) the only time you'll want to use the shotgun is against small biters where the SMG serves just as well. The SMG outright beats the shotgun against larger biters, and the ammo runs double duty for turrets and vehicle machineguns. I guess the flamer is situationally useful in forestry, but grenades work just as well. Power armour kicks rear end, and it's a shame that it's so hard to have exo and night vision on a suit prior to a fusion reactor. Tanks need to be similarly upgradable so they're not simply mobile sniper rifles in the late game. The curve gets smoother when you've played a game to completion and know what to expect, but oil is still really rough. Storage or cracking or basically anything other than just solid fuel (or hell, a tool tip to store your solid fuel for later conversion into rocket fuel) should be a pre-req to actually getting pumpjacks running. RIght now the oil tech is a trap to get you depleting your first few rigs for almost no benefit. I half want a randomised tech tree to keep things fresh. And a (highly inefficient) recycling plant where I can just throw my old armour and junk. And a hard mode which occasionally replaces attacks with worms exploding out of the ground to randomly regurgitate a bunch of biters inside your walls, which I would probably never play.
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Apr 4, 2016 20:47
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Advanced oil processing should not require blue science. And blue science in general uses too much oil related stuff in relation to how early it comes out. Even now, after playing hundreds of hours over 11 games, that oil jump is just THE WORST.
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Apr 4, 2016 20:55
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Upgraded autoshotgun with AP shells kills nests faster than you can run them over in a tank. Robo and/or poison capsules take care of large worms and large biters/spitters. I've never actually seen a behemoth to say if it keeps working, but the tank seems widely regarded as a trap compared to the power armor shotgun capsule god or laser turret creep methods by the end of the game. Circuits are generally ignorable but can have niche uses like limiting production to less than 1 stack, or limiting production where several lines feed into the same supply chest where restricting slots just isn't foolproof. You can also rig up stuff like stock level gauges with lights. I've taken to avoiding oil issues by building all the infrastructure to make (severely choked back, slow rate) blue science before I even drop a pumpjack. e.Having your poo poo together to get blue science going is not without its hazards. I ran into a fairly unique situation where I didn't have my poo poo together to get module production started and really guzzle that gas so I ended up filling up on gas of all things. zedprime fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Apr 4, 2016 |
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Apr 4, 2016 21:03
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PRO-TIP: If you've got excess light/heavy oil weighing you down early on and you don't have chemical plants handy to convert it to solid fuel, stick a steam engine on those outputs. It will auto-magically make those liquids disappear, letting the other gases flow unimpeded. You can also attach a chemical plant to the steam engine when you want to use one of the outputs again and the steam engine will stop disappearing the liquid!
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Apr 4, 2016 21:53
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The trick to tanks is to rush them. They slaughter medium biters wholesale and AP rounds fly straight through them, into spawners. Plus there's nothing big enough to kill your momentum so you can just use the most powerful weapon the tank has: its front bumper 
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Apr 4, 2016 21:54
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A tank is really a battering ram with a gun attached.
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Apr 4, 2016 22:10
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zedprime posted:Upgraded autoshotgun with AP shells kills nests faster than you can run them over in a tank. Robo and/or poison capsules take care of large worms and large biters/spitters. I've never actually seen a behemoth to say if it keeps working, but the tank seems widely regarded as a trap compared to the power armor shotgun capsule god or laser turret creep methods by the end of the game. Tanks are what you use before power armor comes online. End game shotgun + power armor + destroyers is much stronger, but that requires a lot more research and investment than just getting a tank online does. Also, running around with 50-75 destroyer bots deployed is amazing and I recommend people try it. You get a little flying deathball that fries anything nearby instantly.
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Apr 4, 2016 22:17
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Tenebrais posted:A tank is really a battering ram with a gun attached. Dirk the Average posted:Tanks are what you use before power armor comes online. End game shotgun + power armor + destroyers is much stronger, but that requires a lot more research and investment than just getting a tank online does. I've never actually made tank ammo, just use it as a battering ram, carpet bomb the big worms with poison capsules if its one of those worm sea bases that you can't hope to run over everything in time.
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Apr 4, 2016 22:23
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zedprime posted:I've never actually made tank ammo, just use it as a battering ram, carpet bomb the big worms with poison capsules if its one of those worm sea bases that you can't hope to run over everything in time. The explosive tank shells kind of suck but the AP ones are amazing. You basically just fire one at a spawner and it will smash through any bugs in its way and hit it. The tank cannon never stops being an incredible weapon but unfortunately once you start getting lots of big biters and spitters the tank itself dies immediately.
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Apr 4, 2016 22:51
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Dirk the Average posted:Also, running around with 50-75 destroyer bots deployed is amazing and I recommend people try it. You get a little flying deathball that fries anything nearby instantly. Wait, is there a way to automate deploying bots so you don't have to drop each one individually? With their limited lifespan I would think the first ones would start dying before you ever got that many.
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Apr 4, 2016 22:57
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The tank cannon starts sucking when it takes 5+ shots to kill a single biter which is only blues - even worse on green behemoths. Then you can't even ram things without just dying and it's basically the worst.
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Apr 4, 2016 22:58
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Obama 2012 posted:Wait, is there a way to automate deploying bots so you don't have to drop each one individually? With their limited lifespan I would think the first ones would start dying before you ever got that many.
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Apr 4, 2016 23:04
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Indecisive posted:The tank cannon starts sucking when it takes 5+ shots to kill a single biter which is only blues - even worse on green behemoths. Then you can't even ram things without just dying and it's basically the worst. Yeah once you get to behemoths it's definitely time to move on to power armor.
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Apr 4, 2016 23:06
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Until they change combat it just boils down to tedium collecting artifacts. Play with robots, tanks, capsules but I found it got boring real fast. Turrets work quickly, efficiently and I don't need to build consumables with lasers. Even Bobs warfare mods only up the ante a little and turrets still win the 'no mess, no fuss' competition with the fire and poison spitters around. Personal roboports, repair packs and a blueprint - plop, pew pew, robots fetch artifacts, on to the next.
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Apr 4, 2016 23:18
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I was chatting with a friend yesterday and inadvertantly stumbled on to a possible future for oil patches. Part of the silliness with oil is that no matter what, all patches eventually drop to 0.1/s, and eventually your oil rate becomes a product of how many speed modules you have, not how many pumpjacks you have. If/When the game moves to include water movement, how about in the water oil patches that require an offshore drilling platform, and some sort of oil tanker (which can be automated along a route like some sort of water train) to transport it to the shore, where you then transfer it to rail or whatever and transport it to your base. Basically provide a reason for oil barrels to actually be used. In exchange for this the water patches never drop below a certain rate or something. And specifically do not allow underwater pipes because then the player is getting the added benefit of the water patch with no new logistics challenge. Not sure if it would be worth it efficiency wise in the end, but the flavour works in my head at least. Thoughts? I wouldn't be surprised if someone has thought of this same thing before either.
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Apr 4, 2016 23:21
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What could Factorio do to have better combat? I feel like it's an essential feature of the game, but when it comes to the balance between "easily automated" and "actually interesting" it falls shy of the mark. Does anyone have any ideas?
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Apr 4, 2016 23:21
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Change the dynamic so that biters drop artifacts which you can belt in so artifact collection isn't a chore you need to go out of your way to complete. In exchange, resource patches are almost always under spawners so warfare is a matter of space clearing and resource input expansion, which you need to leave the base for anyway. Add more military infrastructure like better radar, leading up to a late game robo barracks that eats robot frames and destroyer capsules and spawns and marches robots to points within your radar coverage to automate all out warfare if you want to exterminate every living thing in your smog cloud but don't want to give the bugs the pleasure of you doing it personally. Being the worlds worst RTS hero unit with autofire and capsules is charming at first, but let me turn my factory into a mechanized automated font of bug death.
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Apr 4, 2016 23:34
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Travic posted:I'm laying down lots of concrete using blueprints so I tried putting a concrete requester chest down at the work site so the construction bots wouldn't have to head allllll the way back to central storage. But obviously the construction bots won't pull from a requester chest. Is there a better way to handle this than replacing it with a provider chest when it's full? I haven't tested it, but I think this will work: Have a requester chest feeding via smart inserter to a smart chest feeding via smart inserter into a passive provider chest. Connect the requester chest to the second inserter (feeding into the provider chest) with a red wire. Connect the first inserter to the smart chest and passive provider chest with green wires. Set the requester chest to ask for 50 units of concrete. Set the first inserter to pull while its circuit condition (not logistics condition) is less than 200 concrete. Set the second inserter to pull while its circuit condition is greater than 50 concrete. (You may have to set it to 49... I forget if they're strictly > or >=.) The robots will try to fill the requester chest, but the inserter immediately pulls out its contents into the smart chest, until you have 200 units in the smart chest. When there's enough buffer in the smart chest, the inserter will stop pulling out of the requester chest, letting it fill up. The provider chest won't start filling up until the requester chest is full, so robots won't try to fill up the requester chest with the provider chest, so it avoids robots being stupid and looping forever. When you start pulling out of the provider chest robots might start filling up the requester chest from the provider chest, but eventually the provider chest will empty and the requester chest will have to pull in new items from across the map before the provider chest starts filling up again. You can do this with repair packs or other items too, obviously.
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Apr 4, 2016 23:35
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Tenebrais posted:What could Factorio do to have better combat? I feel like it's an essential feature of the game, but when it comes to the balance between "easily automated" and "actually interesting" it falls shy of the mark. The devs have already said a few times in the Friday facts that they are aware combat is pretty sucky and they want to redo the whole late game research as well. They asked for player input so go tell them what you think. The turret revamp was a beginning but sadly cut short in 0.13 due to time constraints.
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Apr 4, 2016 23:57
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Psawhn posted:I haven't tested it, but I think this will work: Thanks. I'll give this a try too.
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Apr 5, 2016 00:03
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Has anyone else tried the science cost tweaker mod? The late game research costs are pretty mental, Rocket Silo has been going almost 3 hours already and it's just over halfway (with 8 labs). All you do is shovel materials into the maw of the science beast which limits the amount of labs you can throw at it along with the power cost - 8 tier 4 labs draw 15.9MW. I like the science revamp and the new intermediaries but good grief it's hard at the end of the research tree. I'm glad the newer Bobs map I started I set it down to roughly the same costs as stock.
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Apr 5, 2016 03:13
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zedprime posted:Change the dynamic so that biters drop artifacts which you can belt in so artifact collection isn't a chore you need to go out of your way to complete. In exchange, resource patches are almost always under spawners so warfare is a matter of space clearing and resource input expansion, which you need to leave the base for anyway. This actually sounds pretty good. I'd say if you're increasing the number of spawns by making it so resources are under spawners, then it'd probably be a good idea to reduce their aggression a tad. Or even remove the current invasion mechanic entirely and make it so bugs try and reclaim resource sites, requiring you to build turrets to keep them away. Make pollution spread further so it actually reaches more spawners and have pollution evolve enemies directly, as opposed to increasing some global evolution factor. Essentially as you grow, you get more borders to defend as opposed to how it is now where it just seems like enemies rush your main base when there's a spawner nearby because your main base is where all the pollution is. Mining and oil pumping outposts don't seem to be getting attacked, it would be interesting to actually need to defend them rather than plopping them down and only coming back when the ore flow stops because you exhausted your supply. I'm finding the mechanic of destroying spawners to get alien artifacts really annoying. Most of the time, it's pretty necessary for you to cheese things. I have power armour and shields and big worms still completely ruin me, so most of the weapons in the game I'll never ever use except for using a shotgun right at the start. The ways I can handle them are by dropping turrets just within range, firing rockets, firing tank shells, or if there's not too many just ramming my goddamn tank right into them for a one hit kill. Slime fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Apr 5, 2016 |
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Apr 5, 2016 03:46
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Slime posted:I'm finding the mechanic of destroying spawners to get alien artifacts really annoying. Most of the time, it's pretty necessary for you to cheese things. I have power armour and shields and big worms still completely ruin me, so most of the weapons in the game I'll never ever use except for using a shotgun right at the start. The ways I can handle them are by dropping turrets just within range, firing rockets, firing tank shells, or if there's not too many just ramming my goddamn tank right into them for a one hit kill. Two reactors + 5 advanced shields = can be hit by a train safely 2 + 6 = bugs have a poo poo time breaking your shield 2 + 7 + batteries = only Sea Of Worms bases can even hope to ever break your shield
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Apr 5, 2016 04:19
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Evilreaver posted:Two reactors + 5 advanced shields = can be hit by a train safely Add to that that the shotgun upgrades with AP shotgun shells on the auto-shotty will melt even the huge worms, and you're basically invincible. Or you can throw poison caps at them. Isn't it 4 or 5 poison capsules in a short time will kill any worm outright? Doing them sequentially (waiting until the cloud disappears before throwing another one) allows them more time to regenerate. The range is big enough on the cloud that you can just never get hit by the worms either.
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Apr 5, 2016 04:37
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Has anyone just stacked exoskeletons for maximum speed? I have two right now. Gotta go fast
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Apr 5, 2016 04:40
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Someone in this thread had 6 exoskeletons and concrete all over their factory. Apparently it turns Factorio into pinball. Personally I prefer stacking roboports.
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Apr 5, 2016 04:46
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PYF Mk 2 Armor Builds
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Apr 5, 2016 04:51
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I go with four batteries, five exoskeletons and three shields (or four exos five shields if there's a bad biter base) with two roboports and fusion cores. But I do gotta go fast. I never liked the night vision though; it felt too awful when you can just either place lights or let the warm glow of your furnaces light your way in the night.
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Apr 5, 2016 05:33
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I've been trying to use deciders and circuit networks more but for the stock game there's only really oil stuff where it's useful (aside from just reporting counts). I thought this picture might help the newer folk get into it. On the left pump, it's a simple wire condition of light oil > 1000 - this send light oil off for cracking to LPG. On the right pump, the top 2 deciders are set as follows. Left is red wire and if light oil > 500, sets output A = 1. Right is green wire and if LPG > 2300, sets output A = 1. Those both connect to the 3rd decider which does an AND operation by being set to output green square = 1 if A > 1 (deciders automatically sum the inputs from both networks, that's how this works). The pump is connected to the output of the 3rd decider and has the wire condition of green square = 1. This lets me always have LPG topped up but if there is spare light oil, turn it into fuel cubes for the rocket later. If your tanks are further apart you can transmit the signals by hooking into poles and running it to where it need to go. My biggest problem with these deciders is telling which side is input and what is output, they really need some sort of markings.
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Apr 5, 2016 05:40
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I like to throw one regular shield in with the advanced shields. It has less capacity, but it recharges faster.
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Apr 5, 2016 05:46
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It seems like you don't need the third combinator - just wire the pump to both outputs and set it to run if A > 1? For that matter, the input sides don't need to be separate wire colours, and could actually all be a single network.
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Apr 5, 2016 05:57
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Jabor posted:It seems like you don't need the third combinator - just wire the pump to both outputs and set it to run if A > 1? Try it and see, setting A = 1 on the same colour would logically not result in it becoming > 1 at any point but it could be worth trying. I'll give it go tomorrow if you don't post again but right now it's 6am and I'm going to get some kip.
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Apr 5, 2016 06:07
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Dootman posted:Resident goon GotLag has a great mod to fix that: https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=14258 Does anyone know how this interacts with RSO?
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Apr 5, 2016 07:03
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Solumin posted:Does anyone know how this interacts with RSO? The ore patches are richer than GotLag intended, and RSO (1.51 at least) throws an error on map generation, presumably because it doesn't recognize the new ore type, but otherwise it obeys RSO's rules and they play fine together.
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Apr 5, 2016 07:56
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Thanks for the suggestions earlier about the piercing cannon round over the explosive one. Clearing out alien bases is way faster.
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Apr 5, 2016 08:24
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| # ? Apr 19, 2024 12:35 |
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I started a new map with SCT, RSO, Fat Controller, Greenhouse, the full bobs package (with config set to normal steel cost and cobalt mined from galena deposits), and 5dim decorations to top it off. Biter bases freq was set to low. bobs is the only mod i've used previously. Things I did in this game that I almost never did in previous games: - build a car - set a production line for ammo to get delivered to the perimeter defense - load ammo on to a train to send to a mining outpost Things I did that i never did before: - dedicated radar outposts - concrete. I started just by laying a concrete path by my perimeter wall. now it's CONCRETE EVERYWHERE - monitoring lights and pump-tank combos. this second thing is a game changer. - rudimentary bussing. large factories with lots of empty space and organised lines of belts and assemblers bore me, but I have found having dedicated space for the movement of stuff is usefull. Things I am not doing in this game that I used to do. - Crossing the streams. (having a yellow underground belt occupy the same space as a red one going the other way) - relying on the robots to ferry stuff around my factory. The robots supply my needs, the belts supply my factory. the odd requester chest is so stuff I pick up goes back to where it is used. all the provider chests do is store stuff until I request them with my personal slots. other thoughts: - my next game i'll put biters back to normal, and set the resource field richness lower - make me even more reliant on expanding my train network - 11 tier 4 labs and 11 advanced boblabs suck 44MW - except when they have sucked the blue science buffer dry. so many brownouts until I upgraded my steam stack.  - my steam stack is solid fed until that runs dry for whatever reason, then switches to coal. when the solid fuel comes back, the coal supply stops. This is automated. - I have a blueprint for my monitoring lights that I plop down, set the constants to number of chests and size of item stack, wire the chests to the lights and walk away. - I have reached the limit for supplying basic components to my basic circuit makers:  The two marked inserters hardly move even though the rest are flat out, the fourth electronic assembler off-screen to the north just doesn't get enough to operate at peak. This is what is limiting my blue science. I'm going to have to redesign this section, the current one has been outgrown. It seems 2k/m of these things is just not enough, and I've tweaked every other thing.
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Apr 5, 2016 08:47
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