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Jedit posted:After half a dozen rounds of being killed by lovely collision detection and invisible bullets I uninstalled and got my refund. The game's a piece of poo poo, don't make excuses for it. I have never seen anything like what you're describing, could be you're actually making excuses for your clumsy fingers?
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Apr 10, 2016 12:19
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how me a frog posted:I have never seen anything like what you're describing, could be you're actually making excuses for your clumsy fingers? The game has pacing and balance problems, but the base gameplay has been solid for me. If anything I feel the hit detection is more forgiving than I expected.
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Apr 10, 2016 13:23
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Jedit posted:After half a dozen rounds of being killed by lovely collision detection and invisible bullets I uninstalled and got my refund. The game's a piece of poo poo, don't make excuses for it. It's actually very good and fun with a couple of minor balance wonks, but for some reason a lot of the people who don't like it are simply determined to claim that it's somehow objectively bad and worthless instead of Not Their Cup Of Tea. I don't know why that is, but it's silly regardless. Also, if invisible bullets were happening then your install was hosed. I have gone through 60 rounds of being killed by various things and have never been killed by anything that was not immediately obvious as a thing likely to make me die. I'm glad you are no longer playing a game you don't enjoy, though. Might I suggest Dungeonmans? It is also a good and fun game.
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Apr 10, 2016 13:31
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Yeah Gungeon is pretty fair imo, every time I've died I've known the reason why and it was avoidable although it's more of a death by a thousand cuts than a singular thing that ruins your run. It very much feels like a new Spelunky or Nuclear Throne to me more than an Isaac. Both of those I started out pretty poor, learned the systems then can somewhat consistently beat. That being said I also beat it last night.  Still can't beat the 4th floor boss with 4 dudes who cover the screen in bullets, even staying close... so if I get that boss runs over
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Apr 10, 2016 14:40
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Jedit has a reputation in the board game thread ("This game loving sucks why doesn't it have a rule for X" "Uh, it does."), so I really wouldn't be surprised if his install was broken and he just never thought to check.
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Apr 10, 2016 17:11
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Poison Mushroom posted:Jedit has a reputation in the board game thread ("This game loving sucks why doesn't it have a rule for X" "Uh, it does."), so I really wouldn't be surprised if his install was broken and he just never thought to check. So it's DSP's secret SA account. Good to know.
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Apr 10, 2016 20:58
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Poison Mushroom posted:Jedit has a reputation in the board game thread ("This game loving sucks why doesn't it have a rule for X" "Uh, it does."), so I really wouldn't be surprised if his install was broken and he just never thought to check. The "house rules" guy. Tries to introduce new rules in less than 30 seconds after trying a new game. fe: Our house rules guy tried to change the basic dominion ruleset 
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Apr 10, 2016 21:01
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I don't think Gungeon is bad but I can understand complaints. Rogue-ish games are at their best when they are hard but keep it interesting for players of all skill levels and Gungeon doesn't do a great job of offering an interesting experience to players who are doing poorly. Some patch tweaking might make a big difference as the difficulty is fine just needs some tweaks. What's awesome about Nuclear Throne is all the weapons feel great even the starting one and immediately you start getting new weapons and crazy level up choices. Even if you hit a roadblock the gameplay stays fun. I'm terrible at NT but I enjoy it whenever I load it up. Gungeon's pistols suck and it takes ages to kill the normal enemies with them. Really the game just isn't much fun when using the pistol. I haven't seen much that is difficult besides bosses but stages can be pretty lengthy and loot comes slowly. Then each boss is a huge difficulty spike which is going to send bad players repeating sometimes uninteresting easy content over and over to try their hand at a random boss. Gungeon feels closer to BoI than NT. I also thought the starting BoI weapon (tears) was boring but Gungeon's bosses are harder and has fewer weird items to liven up the early. If you are great at these games you'll buzz through the tedious stuff and probably not notice it as much.
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Apr 11, 2016 00:44
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I've been enjoying Gungeon, and I think it's a good game that was worth the money, but I agree with some of the complaints. I can usually get to level two, but still find the boss difficulty spikes are a bit unpleasant, because although I can usually get through the boss, if I hit Gatling Gull and there's no hard cover and I don't have an OP gun, I can be pretty sure I'm not going to win the fight. Guns are all cool and fun, but there really doesn't seem to be a huge jump in power or playstyle between guns, which is kind of a shame. I've made it to level 3 a handful of times, and I know there's more content out there, but I'm already getting a bit bored with the game because of all the repetition in early floors, and think I might give it a break until there's a patch that fixes some of the issues
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Apr 11, 2016 01:42
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The only problem I have with Gungeon - it is very cool and good - is that it doesn't scratch that Binding of Isaac synergy itch for me and feels a bit too... balanced? Half the reason that BOI was so compelling for me and held my attention for so long was the ability to get completely bizarre combinations of items that ended up doing bizarre things or covering the screen in tiny bullets or whatever the gently caress else. Gungeon, thus far, hasn't really done that. Some of the guns are really fun but then they're usually low damage to compensate or else hamstrung in some other way to provide a tradeoff. I just want a chance to utterly explode the game every 100 tries or something. This is a similar issue I've had with a few different games lately, it feels like a lot of games are going 'gosh we've got to rigorously balance our single-player game' and I keep wanting to answer with 'it's okay to make the player really loving strong once in a while'. Also yeah, the shortcuts are a bit too annoying to unlock / the game is a bit too long to really allow you to get good at the lower floors quickly. Stelas fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Apr 11, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 01:54
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On another topic, I was wondering if anyone had much to say about Dragon Fin Soup I've been following it on steam for a while and it looks fun and interesting, but the reviews are all over the shop. Was wondering if goons had any opinions on it as $20 is a bit much to throw at a game on a whim.
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Apr 11, 2016 02:00
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PotatoManJack posted:On another topic, I was wondering if anyone had much to say about Dragon Fin Soup I got it for free from PS+ and only played an hour tops. Incredibly busy design makes it nigh-impossible to see what's going on, the humour's pretty terrible, the game's pretty forgettable.
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Apr 11, 2016 02:01
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Stelas posted:I got it for free from PS+ and only played an hour tops. Incredibly busy design makes it nigh-impossible to see what's going on, the humour's pretty terrible, the game's pretty forgettable. I wanted to like it more than I did. I felt like DFS was gonna rule and was going be another game sorta like mine where we take awesome art and design ideas to Ye Olde Roguelike, but something... I dunno. It's got nice art. There's a lot of love in the game, you can see it right away, but it didn't grab me. The content itself -- enemies, locations, items -- felt very repetitive and weren't really inspired. I should give it another go.
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Apr 11, 2016 02:07
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Stelas posted:I got it for free from PS+ and only played an hour tops. Incredibly busy design makes it nigh-impossible to see what's going on, the humour's pretty terrible, the game's pretty forgettable. Thanks - glad I dodged a bullet
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Apr 11, 2016 02:08
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God, Dragon FIn Soup has 6,000 owners on steamspy. Making games is like a really, truly awful idea. 
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Apr 11, 2016 02:10
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Unormal posted:God, Dragon FIn Soup has 6,000 owners on steamspy. Making games is like a really, truly awful idea. Yeah but they got a lump sum from Sony for the PS+ deal so they aren't hurting too bad. I talked to one of the stateside guys on their team, they're doing ok mostly because the team is world wide and can accept lower USD salaries, and those who aren't have other jobs.
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Apr 11, 2016 02:17
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madjackmcmad posted:I felt like DFS was gonna rule and was going be another game sorta like mine where we take awesome art and design ideas to Ye Olde Roguelike, but something... I dunno. It's got nice art. I think the best way I can really put the dissonance I felt is that Dungeonmans and Gungeon both feel like they do a similar thing - humour revolving around a single central idea - very effortlessly and to the hilt. There's no wink-nudge memes, there's no 'hyuck hyuck did you get it' to take you out of it, and it felt to me like DFS hit both those problems. Advertising the main character as 'a cheerful but raging alcholic heroine' probably didn't help either because there's automatically a kind of 'oh god' reaction. The art was nice but it felt like there was way too much of it, to the point where the screen was kind of a riot and positions / actions / UI weren't clear enough.
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Apr 11, 2016 02:46
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DFS is just a pile of stuff without any editorial restraint or conveyance on what you should be trying to do. It's like the worst parts of Nethack and loot treadmill RPGs combined.
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Apr 11, 2016 03:02
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Pew pew. 
Unormal fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Apr 11, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 03:05
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Unormal posted:Pew pew. If this is intentionally ripping off of System Shock you have every last one of my attentions.
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Apr 11, 2016 04:25
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Unormal posted:Pew pew. I'm not kidding: http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70540
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Apr 11, 2016 04:27
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doctorfrog posted:If this is intentionally ripping off of System Shock you have every last one of my attentions. It is drinking heavily of the System Shock. (The idea is procgen system shock roguelike, basically) Unormal fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Apr 11, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 04:28
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Well, there's a bit of a lack (imo) of FPS view rogue-ish games that also manage to create a sense of place rather than as a random maze with important rooms stuck here and there. Not that I'm projecting this as a goal of yours, but if the game were to create the sense that you're on a meaningfully designed doomed ship or station, borrowing from System Shock 1 or 2 can give you a leg up there. As basic as themed decks like Med/Sci research type things, living spaces, command stations, etc. Or to something more complex, like fixing something in engineering to aid in clearing a menace elsewhere in the game. However, given how much I played just the demo of Space Beast Terror Fright, a crazy survival maze in space would probably punch just enough of my buttons anyhow. doctorfrog fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Apr 11, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 05:33
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I've yet to play an FPSRL that had a consistent sense of design, or a mapping system that worked well. Ziggurat was terrible as well. That being said, if anyone was going to get it right, Unormal you'd be who I put my money behind.
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Apr 11, 2016 05:43
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Yeah, the current fantasy/vision is to generate a different ship with a different reason for dissolution each time, so you wake up not knowing for sure what went wrong or how each time, with a pretty constrained system shock 1ish kind of scale world. The hope is to procedurally generate a crew and their relationships and the history of the ships fall, so we can lay out a little system/bioshock like environmental mystery around the ship each time. For what it's worth my current initial zone is "medbay1", so we're definitely thinking in the same space as you guys. Meaningful 3D procgen is incredibly hard, really a whole order of magnitude more tricky than traditional 2D levels; but I'm slowly chipping away at it. We'll see if I'm up to the task. I'm just plinking on it on the weekends for the time being, with Qud taking up the weekday work slots. Right now the tech is at the point where you can actually free-roam an infinite, contiguous world of on-demand generated zones like those in the screenshot, enemies can path around them ok, and shoot at you, but it's still got a pretty vast ways to go.
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Apr 11, 2016 06:15
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how long will this thread remain in the hospice
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Apr 11, 2016 06:17
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Yeah 3d proc gen is especially hard to make both proper random and also have some coherence when you want it to. Either you end up with just total noise of random everything or the Ziggurat / BoI style of just mashing together prefabs room by room. I wish Unity at least had support for nested prefabs as that would give me a good base for my room templates but as it is I've had to make a messy overly elaborate system for hand designing room templates that then get populated by prefabs based upon the room style.
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Apr 11, 2016 07:34
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I figure this would be the correct thread to ask. I am very much into this new trend of turning old ROMs into Rogue-Likes by randomizing them. I have found quite a few but I was wondering if anyone knew of any others? There seems to be more every week. These are the ones I know of: Final Fantasy 5: Ancient Cave http://sttb.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_V:_The_Ancient_Cave_translation_patch Turns FF5 into a randomized dungeon. Unlike all of the other programs here they managed to do it entirely in game, no need for external tools. FF5 lends itself well to being turned into a randomized dungeon, with it's class system. Final Fantasy 6: Beyond Chaos https://github.com/abyssonym/beyondchaos This began as a project to randomize the entire game of FF6 (and it does that quite well). But where this program really shines is in the Kefkas Dungeon mode, where it discards the game and uses all of the map screens to construct an enormous maze/dungon out of the empty maps (save for random encounters of course). This program randomizes everything, items, monsters, characters, spells, magicites, etc. Every monster has different behaviors and stats each game. Each character is different, some can be broken and a few are real flops. Figuring out how to use what the games spits out at you, and your very limited resources (steal everything!) is quite a challenge. Universal Pokemon Randomizer http://pokehacks.dabomstew.com/randomizer/ Does exactly what the name says, takes any pokemon game (Original Gameboy up to 3DS) and spits out an infinite number of variations of that game. You can pick you level of random, so maybe you just want th pokemon to be in different areas. You can go nuts though, and randomize their stats/elements too (making you precious guidebook useless, sorry Pikachu is Fire/Ghost type this game  )Zelda Randomizer https://sites.google.com/site/zeldarandomizer/ Basically takes Zelda 1 NES and turns it into the game they were trying to make in the first place. All of the dungeons have randomized layouts and entrances, and all of the items are in random places. Also, it will alternate the secret spots between quest 1/2 to gently caress with you even more. Zelda 2 Randomizer https://bitbucket.org/digshake/z2randomizer/wiki/Home Same idea as the Zelda 1 Randomizer. Shuffles around the over world locations, and the dungeon layouts. I haven't had a chance to try this one personally, it's pretty new. Super Metriod Door Randomizer https://smdoor.codeplex.com/ This one is really awesome It takes every door in Super Metriod and rebinds it to go to a random other room. You can allow back tracking, or go whole hog and generate a game with doors that don't even lead back the way they came! Super Metriod is perfect for something like this, because it requires sequence breaking techniques (like wall jumping and bomb climbing) to get to areas you could normally couldn't.. The items are randomized too of course (except the morph ball and bombs).Super Mario World Randomizer http://authorblues.github.io/smwrandomizer/ Randomizes Super Mario world (obviously). It's not designing any levels or anything, just doing some easy stuff like changing the order of the levels, randomizing the power blocks and swapping the *water level* flag around. Pretty neat!
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Apr 11, 2016 07:45
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Unormal posted:God, Dragon FIn Soup has 6,000 owners on steamspy. Making games is like a really, truly awful idea. DFS was actually a Kickstarter game so it's not all that dark. I got it on PS+ too and it's... It's not all that great. The controls on the Vita version were terrible so I never got that into it.
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Apr 11, 2016 08:33
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General Emergency posted:DFS was actually a Kickstarter game so it's not all that dark. I got it on PS+ too and it's... It's not all that great. The controls on the Vita version were terrible so I never got that into it. Isn't that even worse? That 6000 should include whatever portion of the 4000 backers backed it for a pc copy! I haven't played DFS but its existence is... bewildering. It seems weird in every unappealing way possible and rote in every area indies usually excel. The graphics are excellent quality but they somehow perfectly nailed a style where it looks like a cheap Supercell ripoff in spite of all the work they put in to it. Count Uvula fucked around with this message at 08:43 on Apr 11, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 08:37
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The SM door randomizer seems a tad bit glitchy
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Apr 11, 2016 08:43
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FuzzySlippers posted:Yeah 3d proc gen is especially hard to make both proper random and also have some coherence when you want it to. Either you end up with just total noise of random everything or the Ziggurat / BoI style of just mashing together prefabs room by room. I'm dealing with something similar to this with my game, WASTED (which, similarly to Unormal's game, was originally conceived as Fallout 3: The "Roguelike"). The way I ended up generating levels was to just stitch a bunch of premade room layouts together, generating a main path to the "goal", and then to take each of the remaining doors and then sprawling out from them. I actually got a lot of mileage with a tag-based system to try to mediate what gets spawned where, which I use for my enemies, traps, loot, and the room layouts themselves. It's not the best system (especially if you don't have a big enough stable of room layouts, which is kind of what I'm dealing with now), but you can really end up with some fairly "competent" looking levels with a system like that, and then you can sprinkle in randomized elements of the room layouts themselves, which can help things from getting too predictable. And by helping things not get too predictable, I mean things like a sexy shower rendezvous that's definitely not an explosive barrel trap. 
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Apr 11, 2016 09:44
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Unormal posted:(The idea is procgen system shock roguelike, basically) You definitely have my attention now.
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Apr 11, 2016 09:52
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While I'm thinking about it, the other feeling I get with Gungeon as opposed to BoI is that I'm not really in control of my pickups on a given run. BoI (and Risk of Rain, I guess, kinda similar) gives you enough options that a savvy player will probably want to pick and choose what they collect to work to some kind of 'build'. Gungeon you're basically scrabbling for what you can get. It's still a really good game and I'm at the point where I can consistently get to the 4th boss, but man, that's kind of a wall. (Sometimes literally.)
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Apr 11, 2016 12:01
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Stelas posted:While I'm thinking about it, the other feeling I get with Gungeon as opposed to BoI is that I'm not really in control of my pickups on a given run. BoI (and Risk of Rain, I guess, kinda similar) gives you enough options that a savvy player will probably want to pick and choose what they collect to work to some kind of 'build'. Gungeon you're basically scrabbling for what you can get. Yeah this is a downside, the shop very rarely has more than 1 item/weapon (and usually not even that) so the only choice you make on most runs is "open blue or wait for green chest".
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Apr 11, 2016 12:05
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Stelas posted:I got it for free from PS+ and only played an hour tops. Incredibly busy design makes it nigh-impossible to see what's going on, the humour's pretty terrible, the game's pretty forgettable.
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Apr 11, 2016 13:28
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Mercury_Storm posted:The SM door randomizer seems a tad bit glitchy Sorry, I think I might have linked to a bad randomizer with Metriod in my haste. This is the one I use, and it works flawlessly: http://www.metroid-database.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6141
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Apr 11, 2016 14:56
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Mr. Podunkian posted:I'm dealing with something similar to this with my game, WASTED (which, similarly to Unormal's game, was originally conceived as Fallout 3: The "Roguelike") That looks killer! Is it UE4, Unity or something else?
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Apr 11, 2016 15:27
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doctorfrog posted:I'm not kidding: http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70540 I have in fact thought a great deal about using the ttymor engine to do some kind of traditional (i.e. not FPS) Shock roguelike. I could even import the original SS1 maps into it without too much trouble. I need to finish the engine first, though.
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Apr 11, 2016 17:02
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Unormal posted:That looks killer! Is it UE4, Unity or something else? Unity. It's a total pain in the rear end to set up first, but there are ancient scripts out there that make dealing with the lack of nested prefabs a little bit more bearable. I'm using a modified script I found online that instantiates a prefab at runtime, but renders its MeshRenderers at edit time, so you at least can at least easily assemble a room layout. At that point the only thing you're really missing is the ability to make modifications to the prefabs you place, but that's something you can mostly work around.
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Apr 11, 2016 19:43
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