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HoneyBoy posted:poo poo is just not interesting to read Then don't.
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Apr 11, 2016 13:54
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So no criticism allowed in this thread? I like this manga, but I do feel its been dragging a lot lately. Mean no offence to anyone here, of course.
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Apr 11, 2016 13:58
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There's criticism and then there's complaining and whining for the sake of it
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Apr 11, 2016 14:57
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Knowlue posted:There's criticism and then there's complaining and whining for the sake of it I do think is valid criticism to say the story is dragging a bit lately after we've been on the same battle for like, how many issues now? The battle did had its cool moments but I sure wish it could advance a little faster. Last chapter could probably be condensed in 5 pages if wanst for all the winning and "oh we are so hosed" and etc
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Apr 11, 2016 15:09
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Elias_Maluco posted:So no criticism allowed in this thread? Criticism is fine, making poo poo up to justify not liking something isn't. The pace of the manga has been super consistent since it started and every chapter has multiple things happening with character arcs for a few people. The passage of in world time is just once piece of a stories pacing, and a minor one at that. Especially when there is movement in both plot and character every month. Edit: saying the battle is taking too long is kinda silly since every major theme and plot point of the manga is coming to a head. It'd be like watching the wizard of oz and saying they spent too much time on the yellow brick road. Fluffdaddy fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Apr 11, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 15:12
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I think some people have spent too much time on the Netflix and the Twittervine, and no longer have the attention span for reading manga. Now I made myself sad.
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Apr 11, 2016 16:36
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PerniciousKnid posted:I think some people have spent too much time on the Netflix and the Twittervine, and no longer have the attention span for reading manga. Now I made myself sad. You can't really evaluate the pacing of a work while it's being published. It has to be looked at after it's completed to see how each part plays out relative to the entirety of the story.
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Apr 11, 2016 16:54
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Fluffdaddy posted:Criticism is fine, making poo poo up to justify not liking something isn't. Nah is just dragging, come on. Barely anything happened last chapter. The only thing that actually happened (the strike on Colossal) failed and the whole thing lasted 2 or 3 pages Then we had 2 things that only kinda started (Reiner returning, Erwin attack) and the rest was pages and pages of boring overly dramatic dialogue about what happened and what to do
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Apr 11, 2016 17:00
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Elias_Maluco posted:Nah is just dragging, come on. A lot of things has happened in the last two chapters. Erwin convinced a bunch of soldiers to throw their life away even though he was just being hopeless like two chapters ago. That is a huge shift of character for him. He went from being selfish to realizing that he had to die for his ideals and for the sake of his fallen comrades. Eren is comatose, even though the last chapter ended on him looking like he could possibly make it a decent fight. Now we are unsure of his fate. Armin, Mikasa and Jean have almost completed their transition into becoming the new Erwin and Levi, although Armin has completely lost his confidence in his ability to plan. Levi is play a Platinum game and is chopping through a line of Titans. There is a lot to unpack in this entire arc and this pace is no different than when they assaulted Central HQ. There Bias Two posted:You can't really evaluate the pacing of a work while it's being published. It has to be looked at after it's completed to see how each part plays out relative to the entirety of the story. Also this.
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Apr 11, 2016 17:38
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Yes, but like someone mentioned earlier, this is a monthly manga. This battle started, what, around chapter 73? Now it is chapter 80, it's only been around 7 chapters. It's just that 7 months has passed in real time and that's a significant amount of time. I honestly believe if people read these chapters back to back, the pacing will feel a lot better. EDIT For those people that really wanted to see the basement, so does Erwin. He's extremely frustrated that he's only a few meters (?) away from the basement and the answer he's been looking for since childhood, secrets that got his father killed and now there's a chance he'll die before getting to know anything. davidHalestorm fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Apr 11, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 17:40
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People are whining about the pacing because we're near the basement and at this point they care more about the implications of what's in the basement than the battles and character interaction going on right now
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Apr 11, 2016 17:48
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U-DO Burger posted:People are whining about the pacing because we're near the basement and at this point they care more about the implications of what's in the basement than the battles and character interaction going on right now Im not that interested in the basement and I was actually enjoying the battle, I just think its going a bit too slow lately Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Apr 11, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 18:06
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U-DO Burger posted:People are whining about the pacing because we're near the basement and at this point they care more about the implications of what's in the basement than the battles and character interaction going on right now People have been whining about the basement since the first failed expedition to it ended. The basement is the start of the endgame for this manga. The author clearly had other story points he wanted to bring up and people focused on the basement like that is where the next goal should be. It's like if after Tolkien wrote the Fellowship of the Ring he had people whining that the eagles should have flown the ring to Mount Doom and been done with the story.
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Apr 11, 2016 18:23
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Turin Turambar posted:"4 months worth of issues" aren't two dozen of issues. It's just 4 issues. I think this is the more relevant point. Attack on Titan has also been very deliberately paced, and has also made a point to focus on the thoughts and emotions of individual characters, often for pages at a time. These recent releases are no different in that regard. Moreover, viewed on the whole, quite a lot has been happening. 20 chapters ago, Eren was about to sacrifice himself to Historia. 10 Chapters ago, the Survey Corps successfully overthrew the government. Now, they've reached Wall Maria. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Apr 11, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 18:48
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It doesn't help that readers seem to focus on some stupid poo poo. Like their weird fixation on the basement to the exclusion of everything else.
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Apr 11, 2016 20:01
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Schwarzwald posted:I think this is the more relevant point. Attack on Titan has also been very deliberately paced, and has also made a point to focus on the thoughts and emotions of individual characters, often for pages at a time. These recent releases are no different in that regard. I'm waiting for the shoe to drop on that plotline because we've seen that at least some of the people that is in charge of the new government are loving insane. Darius Zackly, for example
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Apr 11, 2016 20:43
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Alls I know is Levi is consistently the worst character in the series.
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Apr 11, 2016 21:01
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Don't understand all this Erwin hate. He's the commander of the survey corps and is always talking about a soldier's sacrifice, and now he too has to lay down his life. Obviously there should be a chapter on his resolve to give his life and die still believing in everything he's believed in.
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Apr 11, 2016 22:25
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CharlestheHammer posted:It doesn't help that readers seem to focus on some stupid poo poo. Like their weird fixation on the basement to the exclusion of everything else. Tell that to Erwin
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Apr 11, 2016 22:33
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No one should ever care what Erwin thinks.
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Apr 11, 2016 22:38
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Elias_Maluco posted:So no criticism allowed in this thread? I think its been going on a hell of alot slower from the starting chapters just to make it last longer. What was their plan for this whole battle again? Get split up, use lightning spears? This series loves to kill red shirts but why does every single character look the same? Tenzarin fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 12, 2016 00:14
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Elias_Maluco posted:Nah is just dragging, come on. If you ignore all the character moments, yeah nothing happened. If you don't like important stuff like that ( if you've been reading this far that literally makes no sense at all because this was never a series just about nonstop action, although the action stuff is a big part of it) fine whatever, but it's really disingenuous to say nothing is happening where there is clearly alot happening outside of just direct battles. You'd have to be trying really hard to ignore that fact.
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Apr 12, 2016 06:43
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At this point, I kind of just want Berthold to inadvertently burn the basement and nobody ever finds outEvil Canadian posted:Alls I know is Levi is consistently the worst character in the series. My most hated AoT characters are, in that order: Mikasa, Levi, Eren That is not a good thing I do like Jean and designated Smart Guy Armin, tho. Also, I love to hate Reiner, that absolute fucker
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Apr 12, 2016 07:14
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Nobody in this thread has read Berserk, that much is clear. 
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Apr 12, 2016 07:53
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Rime posted:Nobody in this thread has read Berserk, that much is clear. Excuse me, Berserk has almost pitch-perfect pacing, with a great balance between action and quieter scenes, and it is amazing how carefully planned the story is for what easily could've devolved into generic fantasy shlock over its long history, yet never did so far <  >It just has an abyssmal release schedule 
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Apr 12, 2016 08:28
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I mean if you dislike AOT pacing, you will loving hate Berserks pacing.
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Apr 12, 2016 08:45
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I had stopped reading Attack on Titan for a while only to binge-read and it's a lot more palatable that way. Reading the speculation here though, it seems like the monthly release is what is bothering you all, because as it is released in compiled volumes, the pacing is really spot on and it doesn't drag its feet like it does if you read it every time a new chapter is released. This is also why some are being led into wishing for a meat-grinder even though that would neither make sense nor make for very interesting reading. While I was catching up, I didn't stop to think "wow, surely I wish Reiner must be dead by now. No, by now. Oh, surely what hell." I just kept reading like "Holy gently caress, they almost got Reiner. Well, maybe Armin can talk some sense into him. No, oh well it was worth trying so we know this guy absolutely must die and there was never any reasoning with him. Ah gently caress, they still didn't get him?!" Sometimes taking a break from reading is the best thing you can do to thoroughly enjoy it. Also the basement will have a basement titan that will just eat Erwin's other arm and he'll eventually becomes the survey corps most crippled soldier.
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Apr 12, 2016 09:24
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean if you dislike AOT pacing, you will loving hate Berserks pacing. AT least they managed to get of that loving boat. HxH haven't even got on it yet!
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Apr 12, 2016 10:41
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Berserk is very deliberately paced for the volume releases and absolutely nails it. Attack on Titan is either less focused on that, or the author is not quite as good at it as one of the masters of the medium. v v
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Apr 12, 2016 10:49
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Say Nothing posted:AT least they managed to get of that loving boat. Awaiting HxH to use the boat as just a fast-forward device.
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Apr 12, 2016 10:53
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Torquemadras posted:At this point, I kind of just want Berthold to inadvertently burn the basement and nobody ever finds out I think this is actually, if not a likely scenario, then at least a possible one. Sorry, Erwin, your resolution is outside the wall.
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Apr 12, 2016 12:11
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LordMune posted:Berserk is very deliberately paced for the volume releases and absolutely nails it. Attack on Titan is either less focused on that, or the author is not quite as good at it as one of the masters of the medium. v Berserk is 37 volumes in and there has been little progression towards the main plot. So if you care about the main plot (which is how this started) AOT crushes Berserk badly.
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Apr 12, 2016 17:33
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Berserk is deliberately paced my rear end.
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Apr 12, 2016 18:25
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The chapters were annie was chasing them was full of action. Same with the first conflict where eren turns into a titan. Why cant it be more like Terra Formers and have 100 chapters of nothing but a single fight.
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Apr 12, 2016 18:27
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean if you dislike AOT pacing, you will loving hate Berserks pacing. Berserk has great pacing... after the chapters are out. Reading the archives you can't tell where the big gaps were, it all just flows really well and never feels like there's any padding or stalling. Of course it helps that it doesn't really have a basement-esque central mystery.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:00
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Begemot posted:Berserk has great pacing... after the chapters are out. Reading the archives you can't tell where the big gaps were, it all just flows really well and never feels like there's any padding or stalling. It doesn't have a mystery but it has a goal that the book barely makes any moves toward. They are identical at least as far as the complaints are concerned. Though what exactly the Godhand are is also a decent mystery.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:32
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I just want to point out that other monthly series do exist where things feel like they're moving at a decent clip even on release. Character dramas rarely have the "drawn out fight" problem because they don't need to devote a lot of real estate to making a visually dynamic action scene, but JJBA from part seven onwards is monthly and is pretty good about this sort of thing. Though the bizarre and varied nature of stand battles means that pacing leading so samey fights becoming stale is never the issue, as the bulk of the difficulty is placed on the author having to come up with interesting new fights in the first place. There's also weekly series that feel plodding when read one chapter at a time but wind up perfectly fine when collected (major series like One Piece can feel this way). There's also weeklies that manage to avoid pacing problems for the most part and when things are moving quickly or slowly they feel naturally so. Personally, I didn't really have a problem with the pacing in the coup d'etat arc, but that had major plot revelations on the regular and the fights tended to mix things up in a way that was very different from the typical titan confrontations we've gotten used to (and even gotten used to the redshirt body count). I get that this current battle has pulled the trigger on character development in a few long-term threads now and on paper a lot of things happened. But when you only have so many pages per month to tell the story you want to tell, it helps to be able to be able to give that one chapter its own emotional ups and downs independent of other chapters. It's not required and readers will usually be understanding if you can't, but it really does help. Ironically, the coup d'etat had very little progress towards the overarching goal the story's set for itself but you had fewer people complaining about "I just want to see what's in the basement gently caress this politics poo poo" because it shook things up in a way that I feel was healthy for the story, and the readers, overall. So the complainers back then looked kind of weird. Isayama isn't as experienced as some of the industry greats so saying he's letting one fight feel a bit drawn out isn't a terrible condemnation, but it also isn't a sin as a reader to point it out. People aren't "making things up" when they feel like the pacing's taken a hit, they really do feel that way for a reason. Good pacing wouldn't be a challenge if people found it easy to accomplish.
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Apr 12, 2016 23:22
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Well, it also helps that we were pointing at anime watchers and laughing at their speculation about the basement getting resolved any time soon, so we realized what a non-goal that actually is. Actually, I think the basement is almost a metaphor for the author in how he sees if he's earned or made it somehow. You'd think he'd be happy with getting an anime, but I'm wondering if he doesn't feel like he's gotten there until season 2 of an anime starts up and then we'll have the basement reveal.
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Apr 13, 2016 07:05
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What. That makes sense.
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Apr 13, 2016 07:18
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CharlestheHammer posted:What. That makes sense. Depressingly so.
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Apr 13, 2016 08:06
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