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Golden Goat's got the right idea. Build the campaign around single-player, no partner AI, and basically have co-op not change anything except maybe having per-player item drops. If you need to "balance" the game for co-op make the enemies stronger like in Diablo or Borderlands. Rev1 Raid Mode was p much exactly this and it was great and I want more of that but built around a whole campaign not just individual short stages.
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Apr 7, 2016 18:55
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Borderlands scaling is not a good model for anything.
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Apr 7, 2016 19:06
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True, I just mean the enemies get stronger according to how many people you're playing with. That or generate more enemies in co-op, maybe both?
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Apr 7, 2016 22:42
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Anonymous Robot posted:Borderlands scaling is not a good model for anything. Do you have that picture of the BL2 scaling where at a certain point it just becomes 200-800% and even higher than the player's gear because...reasons. Found it: 
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Apr 7, 2016 23:15
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Borderlands' scaling model would be good if the ramp-up was much softer, which would do a lot to provide a more consistent difficulty ramp. Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel does, sort of, but it's not much better. But either way, that's not what he's talking about; he's speaking of how enemies gain a health boost/very slight damage resist when you're playing with more than one person, which has been pretty consistently done well with the exception of bosses which balloon into horrible bullet sponges.
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Apr 8, 2016 01:46
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Scaling enemy HP is bad in a well-designed action game for more reasons than just bullet sponge bloat. Enemies taking a particular amount of ammo to kill is important knowledge for high-level play, and an important part of creating good game balance.
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Apr 8, 2016 03:48
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Anonymous Robot posted:Scaling enemy HP is bad in a well-designed action game for more reasons than just bullet sponge bloat. Enemies taking a particular amount of ammo to kill is important knowledge for high-level play, and an important part of creating good game balance. "Has the entire development team each played at least 100 hours of doom?" should be one of the playstation certification requirements.
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Apr 8, 2016 04:02
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Anonymous Robot posted:Scaling enemy HP is bad in a well-designed action game for more reasons than just bullet sponge bloat. Enemies taking a particular amount of ammo to kill is important knowledge for high-level play, and an important part of creating good game balance. RE4 does it and that's the one everyone says is the best one for knowing your enemies. A whole lot of video games do it and you probably never even notice it.  For a game that does making enemies more competent in co-op poorly, look to RE5 for an example. That game hates you if you're playing in co-op.
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Apr 8, 2016 04:17
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CJacobs posted:RE4 does it and that's the one everyone says is the best one for knowing your enemies. A whole lot of video games do it and you probably never even notice it. If I'm remembering correctly, RE4 scales up the number of plagas monsters when you're doing well. I think that's pretty smart, really. If it also scales HP, I don't recall, but I'd say that scaling as a dynamic difficulty mechanic is a little different from just going "two players, 200% enemy HP" (though I still don't like it).
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Apr 8, 2016 04:24
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I believe RE4 was also one of the first engines for reacting to accuracy as well, sort of like in the Source engine (I think?) where enemies would start wearing more body armour and helmets if your accuracy was too consistent. I mean, I thought this was the case but I might be confusing it with the "scaling" nature of the different locales of the game: in the village the ganados don't have gently caress all for protection, in the castle some of the cultists wear masks and shields start showing up, then on the island we have trained soldiers that are using guns and have armoured legs as well as helmets.
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Apr 8, 2016 08:19
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There's no dynamic scaling in terms of body protection - all the Ganados with Shields and Masks and armour always have them.
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Apr 8, 2016 08:46
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Health bloat is pretty bad for coop and B2 is horrendous for this. I actually wish I could alter B2 to scale it down. More Lazy coop solutions: - Don't scale/increase enemy health, don't increase ammo drops. - Is it too easy in coop? Let them choose hard mode. - Give them the ability to change difficulty per chapter/level (More games should give you this) Seriously though I prefer the games to be centered around coop if they have it and balance it around that.
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Apr 8, 2016 11:22
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I prefer games that are balanced around co-op but perfectly doable solo, it's just harder. I guess the best example is like Minecraft or Double Dragon or something
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Apr 8, 2016 18:48
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CJacobs posted:For a game that does making enemies more competent in co-op poorly, look to RE5 for an example. That game hates you if you're playing in co-op. Huh? In co-op the enemies are if anything even easier because you gain access to combo attacks and distracting enemies so you can perform a throat-slit or neck-break for an instant kill is a piece of cake. Heck, enemy health in RE5 matters relatively little because there are so many ways to instant-kill enemies.
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Apr 8, 2016 19:31
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GUI posted:If there's one game in the old series that'd fit fine with the modern RE gameplay it would be 3. That one was pretty combat heavy compared to the earlier titles and it'd benefit a lot from what RE4 brought to the franchise.
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Apr 8, 2016 19:33
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Definitely agree. I think it'd be neat if they took a cue from the games Japanese subtitle, Last Escape, and made escape the base goal and focus of the game. Raccoon City in this case could be recreated as a randomized maze of sorts, where the chaos of a city being overrun by zombies has created and blocked off paths at random, which could force the player(s) to think on their feet if they're being hunted down by Nemesis and add variety between playthroughs. It could also result in the player arriving in certain locations at different times relative to the progress of the story, or them arriving from different directions, which could put a twist on how they have to approach an area/boss fight. i would play a Jill's Mystery Dungeon title, deffo
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Apr 8, 2016 20:12
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I hope remake 2 is like remake 1. Peace
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Apr 8, 2016 20:36
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man nurse posted:I hope remake 2 is like remake 1. Peace It's by the same team that did the RE1 and RE0 HD remasters and was likely greenlit because of the unexpected success of the former, so I'd expect that's the plan.
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Apr 8, 2016 20:56
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man nurse posted:I hope remake 2 is like remake 1. Peace 
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Apr 8, 2016 21:00
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I think the addition of crimson heads would be a very good thing. Crimson heads are good. (I choose to ignore the existence of ORC)
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Apr 8, 2016 21:27
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CJacobs posted:For a game that does making enemies more competent in co-op poorly, look to RE5 for an example. That game hates you if you're playing in co-op. As someone who beat RE5 on Professional with only the AI let me just say that the game only hates you on Professional. You can get by perfectly well on the lower difficulties except in one or two places where you have to be careful. The one I always remember is the sun-laser-elevator area because if you aren't careful and get grabbed by one of the little spider guys the AI will NOT come and assist you. I don't know why but I learned that the hard way, the AI will just sit on the elevator and wait for you to solve the puzzles yourself and if you die, tough poo poo the AI won't come and save you.
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Apr 8, 2016 22:49
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There's a feature called the Randomizer in RE2 on the N64 that I wished they'd have brought back in other ports of the classic games. When you turn it on, most of the ammunition and health pickups in the game are converted to something else, and it's genuinely random enough that it could give you a serious problem. I was drowning in flame rounds in Claire's scenario but never saw a single blue herb.
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Apr 9, 2016 01:35
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Who designed Jake chapter 2? I'd rather walk around slowly as Leon for an hour.
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Apr 9, 2016 08:18
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Sakurazuka posted:Who designed Jake chapter 2? I'd rather walk around slowly as Leon for an hour. Although the snowy field is pretty boring (and especially that drat ice slide part is the worst, especially combined with tons of rifle guys who keep sending you sliding down the path again), in meager defense of the ATV segment, it's not *that* bad as long as you watch what direction the avalanche is coming in, and know the exact right route to take during the second half when you're riding along that collapsing glacier or whatever that was. I mean, I appreciate what they were trying to do with the snowy field, since there's really no other area in the game like it, but it just didn't turn out all that well in practice. That's honestly how a lot of RE6's insta-death stuff works. It's pretty crap your first time through, but when you're going through again, it's typically much easier to avoid / see coming. But yeah, Jake Chapter 2 is not a particularly popular part of the game. I will say, and I have said this since the PS3 version, that Chris Chapter 4 is my favorite of the entire game. It's just non-stop balls to the wall action (except when you're hunting for the key cards in the holds, but whatever). You just feel like you're plowing through entire hordes of enemies, and it's even better when you're tangoing with Agent Hunt dudes. It's just so much fun, and the aircraft is the best vehicle in the game. Tall order, I know, but it has awesome music and it's fun to fly around and shoot things. Sylphid fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Apr 9, 2016 |
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Apr 9, 2016 10:37
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Sylphid posted:I will say, and I have said this since the PS3 version, that Chris Chapter 4 is my favorite of the entire game. It's just non-stop balls to the wall action (except when you're hunting for the key cards in the holds, but whatever). You just feel like you're plowing through entire hordes of enemies, and it's even better when you're tangoing with Agent Hunt dudes. It's just so much fun, and the aircraft is the best vehicle in the game. yep chris chapter 4 is basically RE6's only section where the concept is realized well in that the core gameplay has nonstop distinct encounters with well communicated concepts where you get to stretch your legs gameplay wise alongside a gimmick section that is actually cool and fun instead of 'what the gently caress is this' it's like a glimpse into some bizarro world where RE6's campaign was good instead of a piece of poo poo but also yes gently caress jake chapter 2 and leon chapter 1 ugh
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Apr 9, 2016 10:39
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On the other hand, the Jake and Sherry section in the opulent Chinese mansion that functions as a weird dungeon crawl is loving amaaaazing and I want a whole game of that.
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Apr 9, 2016 18:03
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Anonymous Robot posted:On the other hand, the Jake and Sherry section in the opulent Chinese mansion that functions as a weird dungeon crawl is loving amaaaazing and I want a whole game of that. yeah if you break it down into chapters it's either that or chris 4-2 (the bridge) as my picks for 'this is probably what re6 should've been'. it's straight up a nonstop close range combat section with no gimmicks and a really high amount of enemy variety due to the increased mutation chance of the neo umbrella soldiers vs. other types of j'avo so you just get to go wild
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Apr 9, 2016 21:11
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Fereydun posted:yeah if you break it down into chapters it's either that or chris 4-2 (the bridge) as my picks for 'this is probably what re6 should've been'. RE6 works best when the combat is front and center. Leon's chapter 1, with the hallway battle or when you get out of the subway tunnels back into the city are both very fun. It's the gimmick levels (MINECART  ) that bog things down.
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Apr 11, 2016 13:28
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Ada's campaign is hilarious just for how badly they incorporated 'Agent' into it.
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Apr 11, 2016 20:09
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Anonymous Robot posted:If I'm remembering correctly, RE4 scales up the number of plagas monsters when you're doing well. I think that's pretty smart, really. If it also scales HP, I don't recall, but I'd say that scaling as a dynamic difficulty mechanic is a little different from just going "two players, 200% enemy HP" (though I still don't like it). RE4 is pretty atrocious with it's scaling if you are doing really well. I never realized it had it until I played it on PS3 recently and had gotten through several parts without dying. All of a sudden enemies took several headshots and kicks to die and enemies went through most of my health bar with one hit. Also, I think RE2 is kind of where the game went away from its survival horror roots. It is so much easier than the original. Enemies such as zombies do much less damage, ammo is much more plentiful, bigger environments to evade enemies, and your weapons are so much more powerful. I am usually swimming in ammo by the end of the game.
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Apr 11, 2016 20:18
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That's only true for Leon though, isn't it? Claire only gets the useless bow gun.
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Apr 11, 2016 20:23
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Playing as agent is hilarious, took me by surprise when my partner went to the next section and warped ahead of them. Kind of wish they were just hanging out in the background during cut-scenes, too, just to make it complete.
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Apr 11, 2016 20:24
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Momomo posted:That's only true for Leon though, isn't it? Claire only gets the useless bow gun. She gets the grenade launcher soon enough which will get her through almost the entire game. It's a bit different from RE1 in that RE1 starts transitioning to different enemies pretty quickly. But RE2 uses zombies throughout the whole game and enemies never really ramp up like RE1 did with Hunters.
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Apr 11, 2016 20:32
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blackguy32 posted:She gets the grenade launcher soon enough which will get her through almost the entire game. It's a bit different from RE1 in that RE1 starts transitioning to different enemies pretty quickly. But RE2 uses zombies throughout the whole game and enemies never really ramp up like RE1 did with Hunters. You get lickers pretty early on, but yeah. They're quite lame compared to the hunters. Edit: Yeah, you're right. They're practically as soon as you get to the police station, so there's little to no "ramp up" there.
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Apr 11, 2016 20:34
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Jyrraeth posted:Playing as agent is hilarious, took me by surprise when my partner went to the next section and warped ahead of them. Kind of wish they were just hanging out in the background during cut-scenes, too, just to make it complete. Oh god, I wish.
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Apr 11, 2016 20:35
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Mogomra posted:You get lickers pretty early on, but yeah. They're quite lame compared to the hunters. Well its not just that, but Lickers are really easy to run past, there aren't that many of them in the whole game, and they are pretty easy to stunlock and in a game where you basically have more health and better weaponry, you will run all over most enemies in the game provided you aren't dumb with your ammo. I think other enemies are spiders which don't stick around for long, the plants which aren't really dangerous unless you make them poisonous, and then dogs and crows which are just as easy to avoid as they have ever been. Really the only difficult spikes are with the bosses which there are a lot more of.
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Apr 11, 2016 20:44
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I don't think I've ever actually bothered killing a spider in either of the first two RE games, apart from the boss in the first one. They're just so slow.
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Apr 11, 2016 20:49
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blackguy32 posted:Well its not just that, but Lickers are really easy to run past, there aren't that many of them in the whole game, and they are pretty easy to stunlock and in a game where you basically have more health and better weaponry, you will run all over most enemies in the game provided you aren't dumb with your ammo. But the only real dangerous enemy in RE1 is the Hunters, and as long as you don't blow all your shotgun ammo on zombies they're just as easy to deal with. The Chimeras in the labs are super fragile and appear in like three rooms, as opposed to the Ivys which take a load of damage but appear in like two rooms. RE2 also has Mr X, which is a nasty surprise, and both he and Birkin are tougher end bosses than Tyrant in either form (obviously excluding slug Birkin, who is basically a gimme). Honestly, original RE1 is one of the easiest games in the series, especially if you exclude stuff like the Chronicles games.
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Apr 11, 2016 21:18
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gently caress playing with Chris and his six item slots in RE1
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Apr 11, 2016 21:23
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I didn't burn a single zombie in the REmake and I don't think I ever had trouble with a crimson head. RE was just harder when I was like, nine, cause now they're pretty easy.
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Apr 11, 2016 21:23
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