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Crowetron
Apr 29, 2009

Sakurazuka posted:

gently caress playing with Chris and his six item slots in RE1

That sucks, but it doesn't make the game harder per se, just a lot more annoying. Kinda like the hookshot in Zero.

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Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012

Sakurazuka posted:

Oh god, I wish.

Hey, Agent is always there in spirit. When Ada's back is to the corner and all hope seems lost, then Agent will appear again. When Ada met up with Leon and Helena before the Deborah battle, Agent was there securing the perimeter. He's just very silent is all.

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition

Momomo posted:

RE was just harder when I was like, nine, cause now they're pretty easy.

RE in general is based around the initial run, where you don't know what's going to happen next and you're limping from room to room with two bullets and an empty shotgun.

The original survival-horror formula is one of those types of games that tends to test a very different set of skills than typical games do, and they're the kinds of skills that don't often get applied to games and aren't often ones you visibly possess: decision-making, spur-of-the-moment planning, a bizarre sort of personal economy, etc. As such, they're going to be easier as you accumulate life experience and familiarity with the larger genre.

It's also odd in retrospect that the features that got added to later games to combat frustration are also a big part of why people feel like the genre's basically disappeared. A modern game would never have the balls to gently caress you over the way you're hosed over in RE through RE:CV if you're down to just the knife.

SolidSnakesBandana
Jul 1, 2007

Infinite ammo

Crowetron posted:

That sucks, but it doesn't make the game harder per se, just a lot more annoying. Kinda like the hookshot in Zero.

The hook shot is used when you are about to enter an area that's gonna need two inventory slots. I think that's what it's for.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

I remember when Code Veronica came out my dad was trying to play through it and got to the Tyrant fight on the plane and just couldn't finish it. Dude spend literal days pounding his head against the boss fight over and over and over and wouldn't accept my offer to do it for him.

So what I ended up doing was making a second save file where I speedran through the game using only the knife and left him at the exact location he needed to be with a full set of explosive crossbow bolts.

He still died but he got it on his second try. :unsmith:

SuccinctAndPunchy
Mar 29, 2013

People are supposed to get hurt by things. It's fucked up to not. It's not good for you.
I wonder if they're going to retain the A/B scenario thing in RE2Make because honestly, I kinda hope not in a small way? Like, I didn't mind playing one A and then the corresponding B (I did Claire and Leon on my first time), because the B scenario is appreciably distinct enough from A to make it not completely padding. It's then having to do A and B again but with the character order flipped that I started feeling like the game was just padding its runtime past what the content could actually support.

I mean, I didn't hate it because nothing really mandates you do it both ways and RE2 is a Generally Good Game no matter what scenario but by the second A/B loop I was starting to feel like I was going through the motions a bit. Then again, I suppose the point of that was reasonably short scenarios but with a fair bit of replayability in the minor variations of it all and gunning for high ranks and poo poo.

I still feel like RE2Make could benefit from a tighter approach to the scenario system if it's going to have one at all.

Crowetron
Apr 29, 2009

SolidSnakesBandana posted:

The hook shot is used when you are about to enter an area that's gonna need two inventory slots. I think that's what it's for.

Probably, but it's still annoying when nothing in the game telegraphs that you'll need it at any point after the train and the absence of item boxes means there's a pretty significant chance you'll have to run all the way back to the start of the mansion. Which, on the Gamecube, meant crossing a disc transition twice.

SuccinctAndPunchy posted:

I wonder if they're going to retain the A/B scenario thing in RE2Make because honestly, I kinda hope not in a small way? Like, I didn't mind playing one A and then the corresponding B (I did Claire and Leon on my first time), because the B scenario is appreciably distinct enough from A to make it not completely padding. It's then having to do A and B again but with the character order flipped that I started feeling like the game was just padding its runtime past what the content could actually support.

I mean, I didn't hate it because nothing really mandates you do it both ways and RE2 is a Generally Good Game no matter what scenario but by the second A/B loop I was starting to feel like I was going through the motions a bit. Then again, I suppose the point of that was reasonably short scenarios but with a fair bit of replayability in the minor variations of it all and gunning for high ranks and poo poo.

I still feel like RE2Make could benefit from a tighter approach to the scenario system if it's going to have one at all.

I like the scenario system, but I can't help but wonder if they're gonna use this remake to set up a canon order or if they'll retain the old tradition of everything all happened at the same time and please don't ask any questions

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

The canon order was already set up with RE6. It relies on Sherry getting infected and getting her leftover superpowers from the G-Virus antidote so Claire A/Leon B has to be canon. Which made plenty of sense anyway because it also sets up Ada mysteriously throwing Leon the rocket launcher which gets a callback in RE4.

Crowetron
Apr 29, 2009

ImpAtom posted:

The canon order was already set up with RE6. It relies on Sherry getting infected and getting her leftover superpowers from the G-Virus antidote so Claire A/Leon B has to be canon. Which made plenty of sense anyway because it also sets up Ada mysteriously throwing Leon the rocket launcher which gets a callback in RE4.

poo poo, you're right. Does Code Veronica mean Chris's campaign in canon in RE1? Because Barry is alive in Nemesis and Rev2, but he presumably dies offscreen in Chris's game (same for Rebecca in Jill's but she disappears from the series either way, so whatever.)

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Crowetron posted:

poo poo, you're right. Does Code Veronica mean Chris's campaign in canon in RE1? Because Barry is alive in Nemesis and Rev2, but he presumably dies offscreen in Chris's game (same for Rebecca in Jill's but she disappears from the series either way, so whatever.)

RE1 is a way more complex situation and the only real answer is 'both happened." You can try to fudge RE0 into favoring Jill being 'canon' but it just really doesn't fly. RE2 is a lot clearer since it doesn't feature contradictory story beats the way RE1 does. (with Chris or Jill always being locked up and such.)

The easiest answer for each is basically:

RE1: Both somehow happened, the canon version doesn't exist in any video game.
RE2: Claire-A/Leon-B
RE3: "It happened" and Nikolai will remain eternally in plot limbo. The only reference to him post-RE3 was a file that was mistakenly translated to be by him. Everything else happens regardless of your choice so Nikolai's really the only loose end.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Apr 11, 2016

The Dark Id
Aug 13, 2005

Why
you
know
I
LOVE
THIS SHIT !!!!
[citation needed]

Crowetron posted:

poo poo, you're right. Does Code Veronica mean Chris's campaign in canon in RE1? Because Barry is alive in Nemesis and Rev2, but he presumably dies offscreen in Chris's game (same for Rebecca in Jill's but she disappears from the series either way, so whatever.)

Canonically both scenarios happened in Resident Evil 1 somehow. Barry and Rebecca both made it through that game. Rebecca is supposed to be in the newest crappy CGI movie they're putting out next year.

Crowetron
Apr 29, 2009

Really, the big important events in RE1 are just Barry and Becky survive, Wesker 'dies', and at some point Chris and Wesker butt heads.

Also, this canon discussion just reminded me that RE0 mentions Sheena Island in its opening narration, so Survivor is exactly as canon as the other three PS1 games.

Crowetron fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Apr 11, 2016

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012

ImpAtom posted:

The canon order was already set up with RE6. It relies on Sherry getting infected and getting her leftover superpowers from the G-Virus antidote so Claire A/Leon B has to be canon. Which made plenty of sense anyway because it also sets up Ada mysteriously throwing Leon the rocket launcher which gets a callback in RE4.

It's amazing how much better / disturbing Claire A / Leon B is when compared to the opposite. It's just hands-down superior.

Fereydun
May 9, 2008

Sylphid posted:

Hey, Agent is always there in spirit. When Ada's back is to the corner and all hope seems lost, then Agent will appear again. When Ada met up with Leon and Helena before the Deborah battle, Agent was there securing the perimeter. He's just very silent is all.

agent is the only person who shows up to ada's birthday parties because he is her best friend forever and definitely not imaginary

Creamed Cormp
Jan 8, 2011

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

ImpAtom posted:

I remember when Code Veronica came out my dad was trying to play through it and got to the Tyrant fight on the plane and just couldn't finish it. Dude spend literal days pounding his head against the boss fight over and over and over and wouldn't accept my offer to do it for him.

So what I ended up doing was making a second save file where I speedran through the game using only the knife and left him at the exact location he needed to be with a full set of explosive crossbow bolts.

He still died but he got it on his second try. :unsmith:

Explosive crossbow bolts are some of the most bullshit OP "press X to win" non-bonus weapon in any RE ever, I generally just save them up for the entire game and shoot them all on the first phase of the last bossfight so I don't have to bother with the most bullshit annoying fight in the game (seriously, a boss that constantly spawns minions that stun you constantly?).

blackguy32
Oct 1, 2005

Say, do you know how to do the walk?

Crowetron posted:

But the only real dangerous enemy in RE1 is the Hunters, and as long as you don't blow all your shotgun ammo on zombies they're just as easy to deal with. The Chimeras in the labs are super fragile and appear in like three rooms, as opposed to the Ivys which take a load of damage but appear in like two rooms.

RE2 also has Mr X, which is a nasty surprise, and both he and Birkin are tougher end bosses than Tyrant in either form (obviously excluding slug Birkin, who is basically a gimme). Honestly, original RE1 is one of the easiest games in the series, especially if you exclude stuff like the Chronicles games.

No, enemies did a lot more damage in the original. A zombie bite will take you to yellow fine from full health with chris. In comparison you can be bitten several times in re2 and still be in fine condition. Add to that even when start off there are quite a few ammo boxes and you really never need to worry about ammo.

gtrmp
Sep 29, 2008

Oba-Ma... Oba-Ma! Oba-Ma, aasha deh!

ImpAtom posted:

The canon order was already set up with RE6. It relies on Sherry getting infected and getting her leftover superpowers from the G-Virus antidote so Claire A/Leon B has to be canon. Which made plenty of sense anyway because it also sets up Ada mysteriously throwing Leon the rocket launcher which gets a callback in RE4.

Also, the canonical recap of the series in Wesker's Report has Leon as the one who finishes off both Birkin and Mr. X, and the B route character is the one who does that.

And Ada showing up to toss you the rocket launcher in the final fight with X fits better in Leon B than it does in Claire B - is there any other point in the entire series where Claire and Ada interact?

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

gtrmp posted:

Also, the canonical recap of the series in Wesker's Report has Leon as the one who finishes off both Birkin and Mr. X, and the B route character is the one who does that.

And Ada showing up to toss you the rocket launcher in the final fight with X fits better in Leon B than it does in Claire B - is there any other point in the entire series where Claire and Ada interact?
As far as I can recall, Ada and Claire have never met in person. I assume Claire sort of knows about Ada through Leon talking about her off-screen, but that's probably the extent of Claire's knowledge of Ada.

Unless we get some future game where they finally meet, I doubt Claire and Ada will ever properly cross paths.

Professor Wayne
Aug 27, 2008

So, Harvey, what became of the giant penny?

They actually let him keep it.
Don't know why I never played RE0 when it was released, but I finally got around to it. I had a pretty good time playing it. Obviously not perfect. Got really sick of inventory management by throwing things on the ground. But I thought the rest held up all right.

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?

Sylphid posted:

Hey, Agent is always there in spirit. When Ada's back is to the corner and all hope seems lost, then Agent will appear again. When Ada met up with Leon and Helena before the Deborah battle, Agent was there securing the perimeter. He's just very silent is all.

:hfive:

Aces High
Mar 26, 2010

Nah! A little chocolate will do




AradoBalanga posted:

Unless we get some future game where they finally meet, I doubt Claire and Ada will ever properly cross paths.

As was mentioned somewhere else in Darkside Chronicles, due to the co-op nature of the game, Claire is right there with Leon when Ada first shows up and she doesn't take too kindly to her. Some people didn't appreciate how catty Claire was written for that part of the game but what are you gonna do.

blackguy32
Oct 1, 2005

Say, do you know how to do the walk?
I really want a remaster of revelations 1 now. gently caress it Capcom, go all in.

Golden Goat
Aug 2, 2012

blackguy32 posted:

I really want a remaster of revelations 1 now. gently caress it Capcom, go all in.

You mean like remaster as in do it in a REmake style?

blackguy32
Oct 1, 2005

Say, do you know how to do the walk?

Golden Goat posted:

You mean like remaster as in do it in a REmake style?

No honestly I just want to play it without dragging out my ps3. REmaster as in re6.

Golden Goat
Aug 2, 2012

Oh...
Get it for PC?

Selenephos
Jul 9, 2010

Revelations on 360/PS3/PC/Wii U was already a remaster of a 3DS game. You want a remaster of a remaster?

SuccinctAndPunchy
Mar 29, 2013

People are supposed to get hurt by things. It's fucked up to not. It's not good for you.

blackguy32 posted:

No, enemies did a lot more damage in the original. A zombie bite will take you to yellow fine from full health with chris. In comparison you can be bitten several times in re2 and still be in fine condition.

It's not quite that simple and I'm about to bore everyone by knowing too much about video games

A zombie bite in RE1 definitely does not take you to yellow from full health with Chris. Chris has 140 HP, and a zombie bite does 10. You need to hit 104 to hit Yellow status so you'd have to get bit 4 times to reach yellow. Jill, bizarrely, has 96 HP, and gets into caution at 71 HP, so she only needs two.

In RE2, both characters have 200 HP. But a zombie bite does 30HP a pop. This number goes up if you're playing on Hard.

You need to get bit like four times more in RE1 as Jill to die vs anyone from RE2. If you're playing as Chris you can survive an absurd beating.

Meanwhile, the strongest non-boss attack in RE1 is the Chimera's ceiling swipe which does 20HP damage. In RE2, the most damaging attacks besides the ones that just murder you instantly, is the Licker's flying leap swipe thing which does a hundred loving damage and will kill you in two hits.

tl;dr nah it's way easier to die in RE2

Mogomra
Nov 5, 2005

simply having a wonderful time

SuccinctAndPunchy posted:

It's not quite that simple and I'm about to bore everyone by knowing too much about video games

A zombie bite in RE1 definitely does not take you to yellow from full health with Chris. Chris has 140 HP, and a zombie bite does 10. You need to hit 104 to hit Yellow status so you'd have to get bit 4 times to reach yellow. Jill, bizarrely, has 96 HP, and gets into caution at 71 HP, so she only needs two.

In RE2, both characters have 200 HP. But a zombie bite does 30HP a pop. This number goes up if you're playing on Hard.

You need to get bit like four times more in RE1 as Jill to die vs anyone from RE2. If you're playing as Chris you can survive an absurd beating.

Meanwhile, the strongest non-boss attack in RE1 is the Chimera's ceiling swipe which does 20HP damage. In RE2, the most damaging attacks besides the ones that just murder you instantly, is the Licker's flying leap swipe thing which does a hundred loving damage and will kill you in two hits.

tl;dr nah it's way easier to die in RE2

Can't you mash buttons to get the enemies off you quicker so they do less damage? Or is that only a REmake thing? If you let the dog attack you like Dino just realized Fred came home from work, you'll eventually die from one attack.

I can't even remember the last time I played RE1 :-(

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

SuccinctAndPunchy posted:

It's not quite that simple and I'm about to bore everyone by knowing too much about video games

A zombie bite in RE1 definitely does not take you to yellow from full health with Chris. Chris has 140 HP, and a zombie bite does 10. You need to hit 104 to hit Yellow status so you'd have to get bit 4 times to reach yellow. Jill, bizarrely, has 96 HP, and gets into caution at 71 HP, so she only needs two.
Are you saying it takes 14 zombie bites to kill Chris/10 to kill Jill? Because that really doesn't jive with my memories.

Dog Fat Man Chaser
Jan 13, 2009

maybe being miserable
is not unpredictable
maybe that's
the problem
with me

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Are you saying it takes 14 zombie bites to kill Chris/10 to kill Jill? Because that really doesn't jive with my memories.

If memory serves, each actual bite in the attack is separate damage. e.g. if they grab you and bite three times, it's 30 damage. Been quite a while since I actually dug into that poo poo though, I might be totally off.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

Dog Fat Man Chaser posted:

If memory serves, each actual bite in the attack is separate damage. e.g. if they grab you and bite three times, it's 30 damage. Been quite a while since I actually dug into that poo poo though, I might be totally off.
Still seems low, but it could be my memories of it are being influenced by me being real bad at the game when it was still relatively new, so I was getting chomped on like 5 times each time a zombie grabbed me.

SuccinctAndPunchy
Mar 29, 2013

People are supposed to get hurt by things. It's fucked up to not. It's not good for you.

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Are you saying it takes 14 zombie bites to kill Chris/10 to kill Jill? Because that really doesn't jive with my memories.

Yes.

Actually, it takes 15 to kill Chris. You can't die from 10HP. You have to be below it.

Dog Fat Man Chaser posted:

If memory serves, each actual bite in the attack is separate damage. e.g. if they grab you and bite three times, it's 30 damage. Been quite a while since I actually dug into that poo poo though, I might be totally off.

Also yes.

Mogomra posted:

Can't you mash buttons to get the enemies off you quicker so they do less damage?

Yep! It's been in the series from the very start. This doesn't really change my point any since it applies to both games, but yes.

SuccinctAndPunchy fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Apr 12, 2016

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

SuccinctAndPunchy posted:

Yes.

Actually, it takes 15 to kill Chris. You can't die from 10HP. You have to be below it.
140 - 10x14 = 0 ???

SuccinctAndPunchy
Mar 29, 2013

People are supposed to get hurt by things. It's fucked up to not. It's not good for you.

A Buttery Pastry posted:

140 - 10x14 = 0 ???

Yeah. It puts you on 0HP. You then die from the next hit.

You have to be below 10HP when you take the last bite to actually die. The 14th bite hits you on exactly 10HP, so you don't.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012
Man, Remote Bombs are REALLY good. It's so useful you can dive into a crowd of enemies, plant the bomb, then get to a safe distance to detonate just before the enemies start moving away. Even if Leon / Helena gets the worst assault rifle and the worst grenades, they are not entirely devoid of fun weaponry.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

SuccinctAndPunchy posted:

Yeah. It puts you on 0HP. You then die from the next hit.

You have to be below 10HP when you take the last bite to actually die. The 14th bite hits you on exactly 10HP, so you don't.
Aah, I see. You worded it a bit differently than I would have. :) Though you have to admit, 0 health seems like a pretty natural place to die.

Castor Poe
Jul 19, 2010

Jar Jar is the key to all of this.
Be honest guys, how pissed would you be if they replaced Leon's glorious Halloween costume with a proper legit police uniform in REmake2?

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

Castor Poe posted:

Be honest guys, how pissed would you be if they replaced Leon's glorious Halloween costume with a proper legit police uniform in REmake2?
In universe, the costume made sense. “Dress for the job you want, not the job you have.” Leon clearly wanted to join S.T.A.R.S.

Raxivace
Sep 9, 2014

If RE2make doesn't have an extended subplot about Leon getting his jacket from RE4 it will be a complete and total failure, and probably ruin Capcom as a company both financially and ethically.

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Jyrraeth
Aug 1, 2008

I love this dino
SOOOO MUCH

Bring back Leon's white running shoes in RE2make.

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