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Skandranon posted:I believe it's the controller chips that ends up producing most of the heat, when doing constant read/write activity. The actual storage chips barely heat up at all. Yes this, the controllers are dumping something like 14W I believe. The NAND itself is negligible. NVMe is a bit more intensive than SATA as each drive is a full on PCIe endpoint along with they usually have some significant firmware running on the disk itself. They'll get cooler in the future it was just a shock picking one up that was under load after being used to sata drives and saying "holy poo poo that's loving hot" 
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Apr 11, 2016 16:53
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Just get a P3608 and be done with it. You'll have to take out a loan to build the rest of your system, but hey - it screams!
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Apr 11, 2016 16:55
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This gives a pretty good rundown on how to connect a U.2 drive to current systems, if you were ignorant like me. http://www.tomshardware.com/news/sff-8639-u.2-pcie-ssd-nvme,29321.html
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Apr 11, 2016 16:57
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Also I would put Plextor above a Sandisk. Have been running their drives for a while and put a few in a few friends systems and they continue to perform well and remain reliable. Never really seen anything good come out of sandisk since every SD/Mini/Micro card I have ever gotten from them has been crap and the SSD that is in my Acer W500 is also a piece of crap but upgrading it always seems to break the drat Sleep mode of the darn thing. But I did replace my Plextors with a pair of 850 EVO's so +1 for Samsung I guess. Intel drives are good, but pricey for similar performance. Though I need to contact a few Intel employee buddies and see what they can get them for.
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Apr 11, 2016 17:40
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Skandranon posted:I believe it's the controller chips that ends up producing most of the heat, when doing constant read/write activity. The actual storage chips barely heat up at all. And the NVMe controller chips run hotter? E: hey there new page, sup?
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Apr 11, 2016 19:11
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BangersInMyKnickers posted:This gives a pretty good rundown on how to connect a U.2 drive to current systems, if you were ignorant like me. quote:connect the U.2 to the miniSAS HD cable and then into the M.2 slot The future is now!
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Apr 11, 2016 19:17
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Subjunctive posted:And the NVMe controller chips run hotter? They're supporting a 32gbit bus instead of an 6/12gbit one and you're pulling more of the logic up from the system board directly to the drive.
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Apr 11, 2016 19:39
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BangersInMyKnickers posted:This gives a pretty good rundown on how to connect a U.2 drive to current systems, if you were ignorant like me. this article covers the pcie to m.2 adapters available, turn a 8x pcie port into 2 M.2! http://www.servethehome.com/4-solutions-tested-add-2-5-sff-nvme-current-system/
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Apr 11, 2016 21:00
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There are also things like this: http://serialcables.com/largeview.asp?cat=349&tier=264&id=1669 ($$$ though due to low volume)
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Apr 11, 2016 21:07
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Subjunctive posted:And the NVMe controller chips run hotter? They are capable of producing more heat, and for the M.2 drives, usually do not have any heatsinks like 2.5" drives do.
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Apr 11, 2016 21:30
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Krailor posted:Those parts are fine but if you might as well go all-in and get the NVMe version of the drive instead. Who cares about money. blowfish posted:Intel>Samsung 850 EVO>Sandisk>else. The goon hivemind considers Samsung to be the optimum price/performance point, with little benefit for the average user from moving to intel, but more consistent performance than Sandisk. Oh I know about the SSDs in general, I'm just asking about those parts in particular as a fantasy purchase; I didn't get the NUC preorder in time so I'm not buying any components yet. That Intel 540s is a new, low-end TLC line; Intel in name only. That's why I said it's probably behind the SanDisk in the 1 TB m.2 category. The EVO is probably going to be the best balance of price/performance/capacity. I really would like 1 TB drives as I'll be installing games, doing video transcoding, etc., but it seems like neither of the options is particularly exceptional. 32 GB of RAM is indeed most likely unnecessary, even after 4 GB is reserved for RAPID and whatever the Iris Pro graphics take (at least until the Razer Core is released.) I know that I could be fine with 16 GB and get faster RAM for less money, like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232188 Then again, there's also this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232190 Anyways, like I said I'm just exploring components until the NUC is actually available. Plus, keep in mind that someone building a Skull Canyon NUC isn't necessarily building one out of necessity or practicality. On top of that, I would like my Windows system to have more RAM than my Chromebook! 
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Apr 11, 2016 21:50
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BangersInMyKnickers posted:This gives a pretty good rundown on how to connect a U.2 drive to current systems, if you were ignorant like me. Roight then, the Asus u.2 hyper kit is a thing. Now all that needs to be figured out is how to power the 750 with the NUC's power supply!
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Apr 11, 2016 21:56
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Atomizer posted:Oh I know about the SSDs in general, I'm just asking about those parts in particular as a fantasy purchase; I didn't get the NUC preorder in time so I'm not buying any components yet. That Intel 540s is a new, low-end TLC line; Intel in name only. That's why I said it's probably behind the SanDisk in the 1 TB m.2 category. There's supposed to be a 1TB version of the 950 Pro coming out before too long, I'm just gonna get the 512GB model and leave the other M.2 slot free until I run out of space and there are new drives on the market.
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Apr 11, 2016 22:21
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I've been really pleased with the Samsung 850s, so I'll be getting one of those to throw in the NUC, probably the 500GB one. Probably also getting 32G of ram as well, not so much because I "need" that much ram for reading the forums and playing a few old games. But like was said before this my fun toy so I might as well go all out.
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Apr 11, 2016 23:27
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nostrata posted:I've been really pleased with the Samsung 850s, so I'll be getting one of those to throw in the NUC, probably the 500GB one. Probably also getting 32G of ram as well, not so much because I "need" that much ram for reading the forums and playing a few old games. But like was said before this my fun toy so I might as well go all out. Got two 850 500G's and they are fast as hell in Raid 0. Price is a sweet spot too currently. Also with 32G I think that would call for a Ramdisk if you're not spinning up a few VM's or doing Video/Picture rendering no?
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Apr 11, 2016 23:37
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32GB of RAM on a client machine is a weird place to me. If you could actually have a legitimate need for it all, you're probably not buying enough. 16 GB is totally a good spot for power users still and for a couple more years barring some crazy killer app that needs mass RAM if you ask me. Admittedly, 32 GB of RAM is a great spot for a home server these days if you're able to use just containers and don't give much RAM to your storage like if you were doing lots of dedupe with ZFS.
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Apr 12, 2016 05:14
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I had a Samsung 840 EVO in my most recent desktop (which broke hilariously in about five different ways less than a year after building it, I've learned a lesson about my own competence and willingness with assembling a machine). Do the 850 EVOs fix the performance degradation issues the 840's had? I don't even think the last firmware patch those got fixed that fully (although I stopped paying attention when I gave up on that system except as a source of spare parts.) That last update I did try made the drive for no reason claim to support queued TRIM when it didn't causing an emergency Linux patch to be needed to keep it from randomly corrupting your drive by trying queued TRIM. Samsung was less than helpful, since it didn't cause any problems on Windows, which doesn't support queued TRIM and ignored the faulty support indication. I just have this vision of Microsoft one of these days pushing Queued TRIM support in a Windows 10 mandatory update and all those drives suddenly start shedding data...
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Apr 12, 2016 06:58
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Yes, the 850 EVOs are fixed. Their fundamental architecture is different from the 840 EVO and they will not have any deterioration. That queued TRIM bug was actually a legit bug in Linux, rather than a problem on Samsung's end.
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Apr 12, 2016 09:16
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td4guy posted:Yes, the 850 EVOs are fixed. Their fundamental architecture is different from the 840 EVO and they will not have any deterioration. Ah. Fair enough, I gave up on that system after having a compound failure of the motherboard, power supply, and graphics card at the same time as realizing I'd made deeply suboptimal choices of wireless card, power supply, motherboard, and case. (Among other things, the Asrock mobo was prone to spontaneously turning itself back on after you shut it down due to USB 3.0 controller weirdness. I swear that machine was haunted.) Good to hear the TRIM issue was sorted out too. (Then after this soured me on PC building, I bought a laptop... And it had the same spontaneous reboot issues on Linux until I hit on messing with the ACPI wake settings. Go figure.) gourdcaptain fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 12, 2016 10:33
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necrobobsledder posted:32GB of RAM on a client machine is a weird place to me. If you could actually have a legitimate need for it all, you're probably not buying enough. 16 GB is totally a good spot for power users still and for a couple more years barring some crazy killer app that needs mass RAM if you ask me. I actually just upgraded my machine to 32gigs of RAM. A couple of reasons: A) It was cheap, less than 50 bucks to add another 16 gigs. B) My home machine does all the things, it is also the file server, back up server, plex server, etc. C) I've started using Adobe for work, so now Chrome+InDesign+Photoshop+Illustrator can all live happily together. If you asked me to spec out a machine for anyone else I'd have a hard time justifying it, but for me on the latest round of upgrades another 50 in the cart for another 16 gigs of RAM was an easy decision.
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Apr 12, 2016 14:21
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I have 32G in my X79 system because... Quad Channel memory looks sick when you have 8 full slots, and I have never needed a swap file ever again, even with VM's running. Even works at 2133 with the CPU oc'ed to 4.6Ghz, just can't run 1T which is a bummer. 
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Apr 12, 2016 16:43
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FunOne posted:It was cheap, less than 50 bucks to add another 16 gigs.
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Apr 12, 2016 17:24
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I realize this is entirely speculative, but Microcenter has 5820Ks for $320. They have had them for $300 in the past. If they drop again, should I grab one or wait for the Broadwell-E equivalent? Think it will be significantly more expensive?
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Apr 12, 2016 19:01
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td4guy posted:That queued TRIM bug was actually a legit bug in Linux, rather than a problem on Samsung's end. Slashdot articles are mildly to hilariously wrong all the time and this is one of those times. There were actually two very different bugs related to Samsung SSDs, Linux, and TRIM, not just one. The queued TRIM problem was entirely Samsung's bug. (Maybe still is -- IDK if they've even fixed it yet. At least as of about a year ago support for queued TRIM was basically nonexistent outside of Linux, and Linux had blacklisted Samsung drives so Linux wouldn't try to send queued TRIM commands to them, so there wasn't a huge crisis for Samsung to worry about.) The bug which wasn't Samsung's fault was a Linux kernel bug in the "MD" (software RAID) layer. MD looks like an ordinary block device to layers sitting above it, and distributes / splits incoming IO requests into multiple pieces to pass them on to RAID members. There was a bug specific to splitting TRIM commands (aka "discards" in Linux kernel lingo) that could, if the timing of events was just right, lead to the MD layer issuing TRIMs to the wrong block addresses on members of a RAID 0/1/10 array. It so happened that the timing was "right" with software RAID volumes composed of Samsung SSDs, and nobody else's. This bug happened with ordinary non-queued TRIM -- it was not related to the other bug at all and it was just random chance that Samsung's drives were the ones which triggered it (their firmware was faithfully executing the TRIM commands sent to it in this case).
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Apr 12, 2016 19:30
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Paul MaudDib posted:I realize this is entirely speculative, but Microcenter has 5820Ks for $320. They have had them for $300 in the past. If they drop again, should I grab one or wait for the Broadwell-E equivalent? Think it will be significantly more expensive? If the E5 Xeons are any guidance, big Broadwell is a small improvement over big Haswell, I wouldn't expect the Broadwell refresh to be more than a 200mhz bump, if that. The differences showed up in the high SKU chips where Intel is offering you 20% more cores for the same money, but I'd be shocked if the 5820K successor was more than 6 cores or less than $300. Build when you need a machine, and Broadwell-E almost definitely won't be anything special that's worth waiting for.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:55
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sincx fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2016 20:10
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sincx posted:What about Skylake-E? More than a year away, who knows how big Skylake will compare, maybe they'll stick some eDRAM on server chips to be a big ol L4 cache.
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Apr 12, 2016 20:19
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necrobobsledder posted:Wait, how are you getting it that cheap? It's $65+ normally on Newegg even for desktop DIMMs. Are you using ECC RAM at all? I've seen the error rates on my Xeons and am terrified of screwing up anything with that many transactions happening on a server where I do both serious and non-serious stuff. Nope, good call. Was looking at an order for someone else for 8 gigs, it was 75 bucks to get another 16 gigs. But still, who cares! With just Chrome + other background poo poo I'm running near 16 right now.
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Apr 12, 2016 21:18
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Twerk from Home posted:maybe they'll stick some eDRAM on server chips to be a big ol L4 cache. 
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Apr 12, 2016 21:43
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FunOne posted:Nope, good call. Was looking at an order for someone else for 8 gigs, it was 75 bucks to get another 16 gigs. But still, who cares! With just Chrome + other background poo poo I'm running near 16 right now. Keep in mind that used memory != needed memory; most OSes will happily cache up stuff that was used recently but not at the moment because it's of more potential use than just letting the memory go free, but if there's demand they will dump cached items and free the memory for programs that actively need it. As an example I'm sitting at 9.2GB in use out of 16 right now but while it says there's only 6.8G left "available", 6.5G of what's used is cache so I am actually over 13GB from running out. You may well be already aware of this but anyone reading should know that Windows will happily use as much memory as you give it, within reason. There was a lot of hate about this when it started/ramped up in Vista because people saw all of their memory that was idle in XP suddenly being used and thought "drat, Vista is a memory hog!" when it was just being proactive. Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 12, 2016 21:56
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Is there an AMD CPU megathread?
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Apr 13, 2016 01:35
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Yup. The OP is from 2011 though so read the last couple pages to catch up on Zen. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3380752
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Apr 13, 2016 01:39
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Paul MaudDib posted:I realize this is entirely speculative, but Microcenter has 5820Ks for $320. They have had them for $300 in the past. If they drop again, should I grab one or wait for the Broadwell-E equivalent? Think it will be significantly more expensive? The 5820k is a hell of a chip. If you grab them and the motherboard on sale, you can walk away with a lower total price than you would getting a 6700k. Most 6700k's top out overclocked at 4.6-4.8GHz. Most 5820ks can hit 4.5-4.6Ghz. So single thread performance isn't terribly behind, and you've obviously got two extra physical cores and more cache, so anything multithread is going to benefit. Basically the 5820k is freakin' sweet at the price point it currently occupies, and I heartily recommend it. Broadwell-E isn't likely to introduce much to write home about, and isn't likely to occupy the $300ish price-point for a good while after launch.
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Apr 13, 2016 03:00
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FunOne posted:I actually just upgraded my machine to 32gigs of RAM. A couple of reasons: A) It was cheap, less than 50 bucks to add another 16 gigs. B) My home machine does all the things, it is also the file server, back up server, plex server, etc. C) I've started using Adobe for work, so now Chrome+InDesign+Photoshop+Illustrator can all live happily together. Eletriarnation posted:Keep in mind that used memory != needed memory; most OSes will happily cache up stuff that was used recently but not at the moment because it's of more potential use than just letting the memory go free, but if there's demand they will dump cached items and free the memory for programs that actively need it. As an example I'm sitting at 9.2GB in use out of 16 right now but while it says there's only 6.8G left "available", 6.5G of what's used is cache so I am actually over 13GB from running out. That's another thing, aside from actual uses for tons of RAM like VMs or a RAMdisk, memory is pretty cheap. I'd rather have more than I need right now than have to buy it twice and upgrade down the line. I'm totally OK with letting the OS cache everything and have a system that's as fast as I can make it. SSDs are definitely coming down in price but the high-end stuff (PCIe) is still expensive, so having the right RAM can be the best bang for your buck. I still have time to decide exactly how much I'm going to get, but compared to the other components the RAM for this NUC will be the cheapest component.
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Apr 13, 2016 03:36
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Atomizer posted:That's another thing, aside from actual uses for tons of RAM like VMs or a RAMdisk, memory is pretty cheap. I'd rather have more than I need right now than have to buy it twice and upgrade down the line. I'm totally OK with letting the OS cache everything and have a system that's as fast as I can make it. SSDs are definitely coming down in price but the high-end stuff (PCIe) is still expensive, so having the right RAM can be the best bang for your buck. I still have time to decide exactly how much I'm going to get, but compared to the other components the RAM for this NUC will be the cheapest component. I bought into 16 GB two years ago and I wouldn't feel bad about 32 GB now for a gaming or workstation build. That's like another $100 on top of your build, which is minimal relative to the chance of future-proofing. My AM1 fileserver even has 8 GB in a single DIMM so I could upgrade if needed (2 slots). I am actually just going to upgrade to my Z400 with 16GB ECC RAM.
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Apr 13, 2016 03:44
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That's basically my thinking. I don't have any ram to put into it now so I'll be buying new regardless, might as well spend <$100 more and get 32gb that I don't really need than try to save a little bit now and regret it later. Also just because I can.
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Apr 13, 2016 04:36
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Twerk from Home posted:More than a year away, who knows how big Skylake will compare, maybe they'll stick some eDRAM on server chips to be a big ol L4 cache. Otherwise it's supposed to be getting AVX512 and the fancy new PCH with more lanes (with lane bifurcation!), more/better integrated controllers, etc. And in theory it could come in time to match the small CPU architecture for once, if only for a short time (depending when post Kaby desktop chips come out and what they're like). I figure if you're going to blow a boatload on a setup you might as well wait for it, otherwise jump on whatever deals for older chips now if you want more cores. Off the top of my head the main improvement Broadwell will be getting is working TSX, more cores for the highest end, and some specifically higher clocked parts, but they had a big premium from the price list earlier. japtor fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Apr 13, 2016 |
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Apr 13, 2016 06:00
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DrDork posted:The 5820k is a hell of a chip. If you grab them and the motherboard on sale, you can walk away with a lower total price than you would getting a 6700k. Most 6700k's top out overclocked at 4.6-4.8GHz. Most 5820ks can hit 4.5-4.6Ghz. So single thread performance isn't terribly behind, and you've obviously got two extra physical cores and more cache, so anything multithread is going to benefit. How's the minimum frames with the 5820k?
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Apr 13, 2016 07:18
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PerrineClostermann posted:How's the minimum frames with the 5820k? Either should be just fine for gaming, really.
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Apr 13, 2016 07:54
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Here's a good video comparing 6700k, 5820K and 5960X in multiple games: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocwwaVGUFtk And the article: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-what-is-the-fastest-gaming-cpu Mayne fucked around with this message at 10:14 on Apr 13, 2016 |
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Apr 13, 2016 10:08
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