Star Citizen: Big MoMA's House

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AP: Jul 12, 2004; One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them; Grimey Drawer

Lladre posted:

It started with snipes at "armchair lawyers" in which I said that there is a clear difference on opinions either being dog piled on or let pass depending on whether they are pro-CIG Anti-Derek or the inverse.
To the effect it appeared that people were trying to hold up some sort of precedent in a US case to compare them to proceedings that may be happening in the UK.

It is going to be very interesting in 51 days when their current TOS goes tits up for the US

I said "If you want to argue about rights to a refund in the EU, I'm your man." as you had replied to me talking about a German legal expert who was in for $5k and he'd argued with me about rights to a refund in the EU. He was that upset about it he starting bitching about me on reddit, I miss you Karl, come back. You said "I'll bite." after wanting to play "devil's advocate", go back and reread if you don't understand what happened.

The fact you can't get a refund in the US for your constellation is because you gave up too easily in my opinion, but I don't know anything about US law and don't really care.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 22:39

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# ? Apr 24, 2024 22:23

Daztek: Jun 2, 2006

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/6564787/#Comment_6564787

He should tell that to Croberts :v:

# ? Apr 13, 2016 22:40

Toops: Nov 5, 2015; -find mood stabilizers
-also,

DancingShade posted:

Hey Derek wasn't LoD due for release back in 2012? That's what the trailer says.

Whatever happened to that anyway? You said you were "racing through the last mile" mid 2015.

Actually on the topic of financials have you ever published a breakdown of your own development costs? (apart from your Tesla, I'm guessing that's a "business expense")

Hey friend it's great to see you.

So, how much sweet space shep you in for? We have a special award we give out here at SA for Concierge backers.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 22:40

Toops: Nov 5, 2015; -find mood stabilizers
-also,

Daztek posted:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/6564787/#Comment_6564787

He should tell that to Croberts

That's a legit good post, I like that guy.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 22:41

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Well there's no LoD thread so I figured this would do.

Derek should make a thread for LoD actually.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 22:42

Ponzi: Feb 21, 2016; DEPORTED FROM FLAVOR TOWN

ICSA 67 LOSER; Fun Shoe

Toops posted:

That's a legit good post, I like that guy.

He used to work at Frontier

# ? Apr 13, 2016 22:43

Sperglord: Feb 6, 2016

Colostomy Bag posted:

Yeah, you and I are on the same page. I love the B-1B as well for the reasons you gave.

I'm more of a cold war era type weapons guy myself. Can't forget the F-105 Thud.

I like the late cold war, electronic warfare and high performance meshing together. Hopefully, advances in Russian ADA tech will push US aerospace back into something more high performance.

I would really like to see a space game try and capture late cold war fighter combat. Huge emphasis on electronic warfare, terrain (asteroids and orbital debris rings) masking, long range spoofing, and missiles. That would take one heck of a skilled design team to get it all working...

# ? Apr 13, 2016 22:44

big nipples big life: May 12, 2014

DancingShade posted:

Well there's no LoD thread so I figured this would do.

Derek should make a thread for LoD actually.

He did make one.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3754741

# ? Apr 13, 2016 22:45

AP: Jul 12, 2004; One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them; Grimey Drawer

Daztek posted:

http://www.houzz.com/photos/7479933/K8456-Two-Tone-Grey-and-White-Eco-Leather-Sectional-Sofa-modern-sectional-sofas

Maybe it's a Star Citizen inspired sofa?

Ali Seiffouri

# ? Apr 13, 2016 22:45

A Neurotic Jew: Feb 17, 2012; by exmarx

https://twitter.com/real_lethality/status/719972970404425728

https://twitter.com/real_lethality/status/719973037861388288

https://twitter.com/real_lethality/status/719974537576759296

https://twitter.com/real_lethality/status/720068258653741056

dead.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 22:47

it dont matter: Aug 29, 2008

Beet Wagon posted:

Legman for SP:

(please don't judge me)

"what the hell is that. Is it for blowjobs?" is what my gf said as I scrolled past this thing.

So. Beet. Is it?

# ? Apr 13, 2016 22:48

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Wafflz posted:

He did make one.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3754741

Huh! Well cheers.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 22:48

Sunswipe: Feb 5, 2016; by Fluffdaddy

alphabettitouretti posted:

"what the hell is that. Is it for blowjobs?" is what my gf said as I scrolled past this thing.

So. Beet. Is it?

One face is for blowjobs. You'll note there is a second face for its rear end, so that one allows you to perform oral and anal at the same time. Beet is a sexual genius.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 22:50

TODD BONZALEZ: Jul 3, 2010

Beet Wagon posted:

Legman for SP:

(please don't judge me)

I love legman and hitlerbaby

# ? Apr 13, 2016 22:53

Lime Tonics: Nov 7, 2015; by FactsAreUseless

Beet Wagon posted:

Legman for SP:

(please don't judge me)

These loss edits are getting weirder by the day.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 22:55

ZenMaster: Jan 24, 2006; I Saved PC Gaming

ManofManyAliases posted:

I'm a batshit crazy insane person who likes to sometimes use track belts to choke myself while I frustratingly @#$%&! to high-fidelity space games.

EDIT: CATTE ROBERTS

Dang it you beat me man nioce

# ? Apr 13, 2016 22:55

Runa: Feb 13, 2011

G0RF posted:

Guys, my new serious Effort Post is going to take me longer than I thought. Here is one slightly less so-- or Part 1 of it, anyway.

-----------------

TO: Chris Roberts
FROM: Something Awful
SUBJECT: Not that you needed anything else to worry about but OH CRAP WHAT IS THAT?!

I know, despite outward appearances, these are the times that try men�s souls at Cloud Imperium Games.

The enemies gather, seen and unseen� each seeking in some way to thwart the Great Work underway, each seeking to derail the longstanding plans to build The Best Furnished Space Sim Headquarters Ever. (Oh and there�s that space game you�re working on, too.)

Snooping auditors, disloyal employees, space cat trolls, frenemy competitors, and of course, the Old School Internet Warlord himself. He�s always making new mischief when he should be trying to get the drat cyan out of his puny little space game! (Bloody Floridians, right? So tacky�)

Yet� even as these enemies gather� Goon Scouts have just returned from the front lines of Battlefield PewPew with horrifying intelligence reports� of a threat looming just beyond the horizon-line. It lumbers slowly towards us all, obscured in a cloud of shadows, yet if the rumors we�ve heard are true, it poses a grave threat to all who promise to deliver immersive, agency-rich Space Game experiences, even those without tasteful, rustic furnishings that really do add an touch of old world class to space-ship themed lobbies with wrap-around murals.

In fact, the threat is so gobsmackingly giant that even the Gaming Press picked up on it. They, too, see grave possibilities ahead for Star Citizen...

Troubling thoughts indeed, and it would be tempting, too tempting Sir, to assume Bethesda is simply seeking to ride on the coattails of the Gaming Studio that is without a doubt the Industry Leader in justifying lavish expenditures for its headquarter offices AND princely sums for pre-ordered DLC content while also working to develop a Space Game sometimes.

But yet again, Goon Scouts have uncovered surprising details about the true history of this potentially industry-shaking development, for it has been decades in the making. It would appear that some competitors apparently subscribe to a radically different game development philosophy, one in which games are quietly created in secret in less extravagantly furnished offices...

BETHESDA: Laugh at his functional drone-worker furniture if you want, the threat he represents is real.

Though their offices are reportedly sorely lacking in the artisanal decorative touches that separate the Best Furnished Game Developers from the Rest, Bethesda should not be underestimated... In contrast to your much remarked upon "let's make this up as we go along and tell everybody about it in the process" game design philosophy, Bethesda's legendary secrecy may actually represent a genuine competitive threat.

Given their trademark sophistication, and in consideration of intel uncovered by Goon Spies, it is clear that "Starfield" was a project already in development by the time of their March 2013 filing. We advise you to ignore any claims that their consecration of the Starfield project was reactive to Star Citizen's well-publicized kickoff 6 months prior� they are false. Remember, too, that this is a studio that rebooted a moribund IP in a largely forgotten genre to great success only 4 years prior to that registration-- and reaped enormous critical praise and fantastic commercial success. As with Rockstar's surprising pivot to the all-but-dead Western genre, our spies report that Bethesda was planning a space game long ahead of the rebirth of the genre.

First, we direct your attention to these provocative recent comments by Todd Howard.

Our sources tell us that Starfield is one of these projects. Yet WHAT IS "STARFIELD"? Though few in the industry have a clue, Goontelligence reports indicate that Starfield is, in fact, going to be Bethesda's 3rd attempt at a Space RPG-- and that this time, unlike their little-known prior attempts, they are unlikely to fail.

The following Usenet post marked FOR YOUR EYES ONLY was made by Todd Howard not long after Daggerfall(!) came out, only a couple of years into his tenure at Bethesda Games. There are a couple of interesting things to note here.

Unfortunately, it gets worse. Far worse...

If you are not already sitting down, Chris, we advise you to find your way to the nearest Aviator Chair and gently nestle yourself into it's vintage, leather bomber jacket-like cushions. Allow the aerodynamic curves of the aluminum accented chair to embrace you. Find your strength and flyboy swagger, Chris. We fear you are going to need every last ounce by the time you finish reading this report.

First and foremost, Todd Howard, who now has enough money to sumptuously decorate every single Bethesda Studio office should he choose to, was actually thinking about Space RPGs as far back as two decades ago-- as were many at Bethesda.

In fact, at the time of young Howard's post, Bethesda had been partnering with Centropolis to develop an ambitious (at the time) space game called "The 10th Planet".

Here is the trailer for that abandoned game.

If you are unable to watch this clip right now, gaze for a troubled moment, as we did, at the familiar touchstones...

Chillingly familiar, is it not? As one Goon remarked in sober horror, "I felt like I was watching a Squadron 42 trailer from 1996. Only with better animated reptiles."

----

Indeed, The 10th Planet -- with Draconian alien adversaries, Star Marine corridors, reptilian mother ships, spaceship pew-pew, gratuitous explosions, star maps and more -- seems to have been the Squadron 42 of its time.

As relayed by our agent, "My god, Bethesda even had moon-breaking technology planned as far back as 1996, too!"

Here is how that game trailer is described on Vimeo by an artist involved in its creation:

You certainly must be wondering by this point, as we were, what happened to The 10th Planet? What happened to Bethesda's first planned entry into the Space Game genre? We direct your attention to a quote from yet another former Bethesda developer:

Knowing you as we do, the words above surely read like those of an absolute madman. The project was shelved because Bethesda's XnGine wasn't able to deliver upon the expectations created by the trailer-- and Bethesda lamented the time and money wasted on a cinematic trailer the game could never live up to!

Sheer insanity. Yet Bethesda reportedly took another shot at "The 10th Planet" a couple of years later. It also failed, and apparently for similarly lunatic reasons. They couldn't deliver on the promise of their trailers.

It is difficult-- indeed, drat near impossible -- to imagine what kind of freakish, twisted logic might bring a gaming company to actually kill a project in development simply because they didn't feel the game could live up to a trailer. It seems almost the polar opposite of your own strategy which has brought with it such resplendent appointments. Yet they have succeeded in spite of this strange failure of will� in fact, they are now reaping fantastic fortunes as a result of this highly counter-intuitive strategy and in spite of their fondness for furnishing better suited for peasants.

At the risk of discomfiting you, however, we fear we must draw attention to the stark contrast. Not the stark contrast on display when comparing the exalted $1045 Flatiron Desks of Cloud Imperium with the lowly $100 function-ware of Bethesda's offices-- for here, you will triumph every time...

Instead, we must draw attention to the contrast between your Game Development process-- for here, too, the contrast couldn't be clearer, and yet here, we fear you may be on the losing side in the scales of the market.

Star Citizen-- as it exists today-- remains an unstable tech demo still in a pre-Alpha state 4 years into development. Yet the game that is playable today or will be playable next year is not the game you have been selling since 2012, often with the aid of highly aspirational commercials. Cloud Imperium has achieved its unprecedented financial success by selling "THE GAME THAT WILL ONE DAY BE", and they have done that primarily through 'in engine' trailers for a game that doesn't exist and that you are unlikely to be able to deliver, even with another $100M and 4 more years.

Bethesda, by contrast, generated $750 million dollars in one day with their latest release. And though Todd Howard has high regard for your past work, particularly your interface design on Times of Lore, and though he considers Origin his favorite classic-era development studio-- we fear we must press the urgency of this matter.

The student has become the master, and that master, like you, has set his eyes on the stars. Though he surely sits in an unremarkable chair mass-produced in a factory, one that does not feature intentional nicks, small scratches and other imperfections that add to the character and uniqueness of said chair, his competitive advantages are real. They are the secrecy fostered between employees who trust each other and their employer, a war chest that dwarfs even what remains of your own, and a 20 year desire to branch out into the Space Game genre. If they were creating the equivalent of Squadron 42 in 1996-- it horrifies us to imagine what they might be up to now.

Nevertheless, we have guesses. You will surely want to read them. We have familiarized you already with the competitive threats on the horizon. In our next installment of this report, we will appraise you in disquieting detail of the behemoth cloaked in shadows that soldiers towards you just beyond it. For the earth quakes beneath its feet, though you can not yet feel the tremors, and when it arrives, it threatens to steal glory, customers, and disposable income from millions.

In the interim, we would advise you to consider investing in one of Restoration Hardware's Grand Leather Beanbags ($1150), perhaps with the companion Exotic Faux Fur blankie ($309). Neither is particularly dignified, but the beanbag is generously sized and perfectly plumped with sink-in comfort and portable repose and the blankie re-creates the subtly variegated tones and tipped ends characteristic of natural pelts.

We believe after reading our disturbing follow-up report on Starfield, you will appreciate the cocooning comfort the combination will provide you. As always, you needn't concern yourself with any appearance of impropriety when expensing these indulgences to Cloud Imperium. As you said to Sandi not long ago, "The fans will never know-- and you deserve to be comfortable."

You do, indeed.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 23:02

ZenMaster: Jan 24, 2006; I Saved PC Gaming

G0RF posted:

pure honey in ears and eyes

oh g0rf, my wonderful g0rf. my sweet summer child g0rf

# ? Apr 13, 2016 23:07

NVB: Jan 23, 2010; Grimey Drawer

DancingShade posted:

Hey Derek wasn't LoD due for release back in 2012? That's what the trailer says.

Whatever happened to that anyway? You said you were "racing through the last mile" mid 2015.

Actually on the topic of financials have you ever published a breakdown of your own development costs? (apart from your Tesla, I'm guessing that's a "business expense")

# ? Apr 13, 2016 23:12

Quavers: Feb 26, 2016; You clearly don't understand game development

Ben Parry still frequently posts on the Frontier forums, in the SC thread(s). Very level headed, and knowledgeable of graphics tech (his career). IIRC he moved to Manchester for family reasons, so Braben fixed up a transfer to Foundry42. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/member.php?u=27895

# ? Apr 13, 2016 23:12

AP: Jul 12, 2004; One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them; Grimey Drawer

DancingShade posted:

Hey Derek wasn't LoD due for release back in 2012? That's what the trailer says.

Whatever happened to that anyway? You said you were "racing through the last mile" mid 2015.

Actually on the topic of financials have you ever published a breakdown of your own development costs? (apart from your Tesla, I'm guessing that's a "business expense")

I think he has you on ignore still.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 23:15

Pebergehund: Jan 21, 2010

Samizdata posted:

Also, truthfully, I pretty much have made this clear in some private Discord chats, but I blame almost all of this on Sandi. Chris strikes me as mostly a well meaning schlub who has a really hard time saying no to people (as they would probably stop liking him if he did). I figure Sandi saw some buzz about Chris, had a brainstorm) and dug him out of her phone's contact list. In Chris she saw a chance to revive her flagging personal credibility (we have yet to see any real confirmation of her being the best marketer since she was a little girl) by being attached to THE BIGGEST CROWDFUNDING PROJECT EVA!!!111! By this point in time, it had been established that crowdfunding projects do often fail, usually with mostly minimal legal entanglements. So then, Sandi, Kingmaker (since she was a little princess), had her plan. (And, yes, at this point if this sounds like a heist movie, I am meaning it to).

She reconnected with Chris, locked down their relationship with children, and starting stroking his ego to build him up to act with such audacity. This was her ticket to the big time. Parties, news article, a fuller IMDB page and all. She could be a STAH again!

Then the KS launched. Money started rolling in, but a few people started having questions. BAM! Second big idea - OPEN DEVELOPMENT! There's no secrets here! We'll let you see EVERYTHING during our tours, even if said tours are reminiscent of the fake grocery store windows in North Korea. The development was just open enough to let you see what they wanted you to see. A wacky band of gender and race inclusive misfits, led by a BRILLYUNT! game developer from ages past (because all those drat geeks are awfully nostalgic for people that are supposedly futurists) and the most competent businesswoman since the invention of capitalism (albeit with no real verifiable CV as such - But, then again, DREAMS! don't need CVs), in a funfilled, luxurious workspace, no, hackerspace. And we'll add a splash of creativity and "sticking it to the man" by declaring "NO MASTERS! NO PUBLISHERS!" and going indy. That way they can suck in the malcontents and rebels in the geek crowd, too and steal some...valor?...no...glory from the burgeoning indy development scene.

She's determined to ride this train as long as possible to leach as much money and star power out of it as she can and drat the consequences, as I see it. We've seen some signs of her sociopathy and need for constant ego reinforcement on multiple occasions.

The problem is is that the seams on this ship weren't sealed with proper oakum, but with whatever was lying around and the captain refuses to look at the charts, declaiming instead that he knows the oceans better than anyone else. Even the most loyal sailors are starting to see the leaks overflowing the bilge and are torn between their rum rations and their oaths to the captain and their survival.

Sorry for the recent wall of text effort OpEds. Blame people like AP, G0rf, darkarchon and the Ace Collective for shaming me into it.

A lot of good stuff here, but while Sandy is certainly a bad influence, I still think Chris is the one most at fault here. The two are actually extremely similar in a way; they are both has-beens (or never-was) with grand dreams of being big shot movie producers living in luxury, they both recognize that this requires a lot of cash and hard work and eager are both to let other people supply those.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 23:19

ZenMaster: Jan 24, 2006; I Saved PC Gaming

A Neurotic Jew posted:

https://twitter.com/banditloaf/status/720334600732430337

people are excited about the new couch

that's chris's black turtleneck tummy

:gonk:

# ? Apr 13, 2016 23:19

Tijuana Bibliophile: Dec 30, 2008; Scratchmo

I'm very upset with the way Derek spends his own money developing a non-crowdfunded game while simultaneously criticizing a company that spends other people's money not developing a crowdfunded game

# ? Apr 13, 2016 23:20

Lladre: Jun 28, 2011; Soiled Meat

AP posted:

I said "If you want to argue about rights to a refund in the EU, I'm your man." as you had replied to me talking about a German legal expert who was in for $5k and he'd argued with me about rights to a refund in the EU. He was that upset about it he starting bitching about me on reddit, I miss you Karl, come back. You said "I'll bite." after wanting to play "devil's advocate", go back and reread if you don't understand what happened.

The fact you can't get a refund in the US for your constellation is because you gave up too easily in my opinion, but I don't know anything about US law and don't really care.

Yet you never answered my question.

And I haven't given up on getting a refund.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 23:22

cmdr_vinman: Mar 24, 2016; Alien embryos are yum!!

Toops posted:

That's a legit good post, I like that guy.

That's because this dev is an ex Frontier Elite Dangerous employee, who actually worked on a real game that did see the light of day, I feel sorry for him as he cursed himself by going to work for CIG. LOL

Evidence of working for Frontier developments: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7295

# ? Apr 13, 2016 23:25

tooterfish: Jul 13, 2013

DancingShade posted:

(apart from your Tesla, I'm guessing that's a "business expense")

Why the quotes here, suggesting something nefarious is going on with his Tesla?

If it's his own money, i.e. not ~~crowdfunded~~fleeced from nerds to make a game, I don't see what difference it makes.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 23:25

Adventure Pigeon: Nov 8, 2005; I am a master storyteller.

DancingShade posted:

Hey Derek wasn't LoD due for release back in 2012? That's what the trailer says.

Whatever happened to that anyway? You said you were "racing through the last mile" mid 2015.

Actually on the topic of financials have you ever published a breakdown of your own development costs? (apart from your Tesla, I'm guessing that's a "business expense")

Guess we have a competitor with moma for most stupid.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 23:26

Blunderstorm: Mar 1, 2016; my grandfather just posts and all i got was this lousy joke, so what

did Derek get back from lunch yet?

# ? Apr 13, 2016 23:27

Toops: Nov 5, 2015; -find mood stabilizers
-also,

Ponzi posted:

He used to work at Frontier

Welp, that figures

# ? Apr 13, 2016 23:28

Tijuana Bibliophile: Dec 30, 2008; Scratchmo

Lladre posted:

Yet you never answered my question.

And I haven't given up on getting a refund.

You mean the question about whether US case law can be used as precedent in the EU?

What's legit about it

# ? Apr 13, 2016 23:29

Sunswipe: Feb 5, 2016; by Fluffdaddy

Turd Burglar posted:

did Derek get back from lunch yet?

Let him loving finish.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 23:31

alf_pogs: Feb 15, 2012

Turd Burglar posted:

did Derek get back from lunch yet?

eating the souls of the enemies hes crushed is to be savored

# ? Apr 13, 2016 23:32

Toops: Nov 5, 2015; -find mood stabilizers
-also,

ManofManyAliases posted:

I'm just curious as the actual number of you that are gently and silently trolling Derek to an inevitable nervous breakdown .... sure puts anything I say to shame.

Quoting from the past just to point out how cringey and shill this loving mark is.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 23:34

Toops: Nov 5, 2015; -find mood stabilizers
-also,

FrankieGoes posted:

Also: I now think you're the plant.

Plant detected.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 23:35

Tijuana Bibliophile: Dec 30, 2008; Scratchmo

alf_pogs posted:

eating the souls of the enemies hes crushed is to be savored

I think MoMA is chewing his nails down to the bone writing him an apology letter so grotesquely pathetic that it would embarrass B'Tak's cubs

# ? Apr 13, 2016 23:35

Pope Corky the IX: Dec 18, 2006; What are you looking at?

A Neurotic Jew posted:

https://twitter.com/banditloaf/status/720334600732430337

people are excited about the new couch

Why is Ben looking in every direction but at the camera?

# ? Apr 13, 2016 23:36

AP: Jul 12, 2004; One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them; Grimey Drawer

Lladre posted:

Yet you never answered my question.

And I haven't given up on getting a refund.

If you have a problem with the other conversation take it up with someone in it. I was making a Karl joke when you quoted me.
To answer your question "Can US past case law be used as precedent in EU cases?"

Well that's a poorly phrased question, EU directives have requirements that EU Member States must achieve, it's national authorities then have the choice of form and method to meet them. So any case, to pick the UK as an example would take place in County Court (small claims). As I don't believe CIG would defend I can't see any possibility of High Court or Supreme Court.

Assuming by some miracle our pretend spaceship case reached that far, I imagine the European Court of Justice would treat a reference to a US case in much the same way as a Texas lawman would treat my expired blockbuster video membership card being used as ID.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 23:36