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There's zero question that PbtA is good for beginners who are creative and able to handle improv, but not every beginner is like that, and PbtA does demand an experienced DM. That said, the less complex the PbtA game, the smaller the strain on the DM and the easier it is to get people who aren't very good at improv to get better at improv, which is why you should stay away from stuff more complicated than AW/MH/Urban Shadows. There's also a wealth of AW or MH PbPs on SA to hit up for ideas/examples, as well a several discussion threads. Again, though, the GM should really be checking with their players what kind of game they want (RP-heavy vs. rules-heavy). e; while I'm at it, Feng Shui 2 is also a really good beginner game. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Apr 25, 2016 |
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Apr 25, 2016 00:30
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Lemon-Lime posted:Again, though, the GM should really be checking with their players what kind of game they want (RP-heavy vs. rules-heavy). Related to the post I made earlier, the way I would frame the question would be to try to find the kind of game not from a rules-heavy/rules-lite spectrum, but from a subject matter and theme POV. When I introduced one group of friends to TRPGs, I used Basic D&D but started emphasizing the combat rules and the tactical combat once it became clear to me that that was more what they were interested in, but for a different group I simplified the combat and played up the RP aspect when they kept wanting to talk to and negotiate with everyone and kept avoiding conflict. The former group would probably have enjoyed 4th edition more, while the latter group maybe could have a better time with DW or even FATE. chaos rhames posted:Just remember as a GM to use all that clunky-seeming stuff about threats and agendas because it's real hard to do everything on the fly without something concrete to fall back on. This was a mistake I made trying to run PBTA, so yeah, seconding this.
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Apr 25, 2016 01:13
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gradenko_2000 posted:When I introduced one group of friends to TRPGs, I used Basic D&D but started emphasizing the combat rules and the tactical combat once it became clear to me that that was more what they were interested in, but for a different group I simplified the combat and played up the RP aspect when they kept wanting to talk to and negotiate with everyone and kept avoiding conflict. While this is good up to a point if everyone has already agreed on a specific game they want to play and you're doing this to tailor that game to their tastes, I wouldn't recommend doing it over just picking a system that will do what your players want it to do out of the box, without requiring the DM to kludge it (especially if the DM is also new). No edition of D&D is a generic system, and they're all very bad at doing certain types of things. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Apr 25, 2016 |
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Apr 25, 2016 01:26
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Lemon-Lime posted:While this is good practice if everyone has already agreed on a specific game they want to play and you're doing this to tailor that game to their tastes, I wouldn't recommend doing it over just picking a system that will do what your players want it to do out of the box, without requiring the DM to kludge it, especially if the DM is also new. But I think we do end up recommending "what's a good beginner game?" even when it's supposed to be a more specific question than that because you won't know what if a player likes until they start somewhere, and even then they'll probably play along with whatever you throw at them unless you go out of your way to find out what kind of fun they like, or it's completely unenjoyable.
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Apr 25, 2016 01:31
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Siivola posted:Ooh, gossip! Any particular reason, or just the sad fact he writes like a goon? He's got a mixed reputation on the FGC for popularizing the tournament rear end in a top hat attitude but he did good work balancing SF2 HD Remix
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Apr 25, 2016 02:52
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DalaranJ posted:Ettin, please change the title of the board game thread to "Monopoly's actually ok if" Give me Chutes & Ladders, that's a real classic. It's better if you roll two dice, though, the game moves a lot quicker. TheLovablePlutonis posted:He's got a mixed reputation on the FGC for popularizing the tournament rear end in a top hat attitude but he did good work balancing SF2 HD Remix Yeah, Playing to Win rubbed some people the wrong way with its bluntly pro-competitive attitude. But I really do wish more fighting game developers had learned from HD Remix's design lessons, the fact that Capcom completely ignored the innovations it made was pretty disappointing.
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Apr 25, 2016 03:10
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Someone really needs to make a Monopoly/ GTA Vice City crossover. Board expansions, hitmen, arson, electing corrupt officials, the whole nine yards. Edit: because the version of Arson and Bankrobbery Monopoly when I was a kid was basically one player (always someone who was losing strangely) getting bored and punching the banker for extra dough. Then it devolved into negotiations with other players for burning down apartment buildings. 
Helical Nightmares fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Apr 25, 2016 |
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Apr 25, 2016 03:18
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There was a houserule I read once for playing Double Monopoly: you'd expand the board by overlapping them at the GO square, and then you'd make figure-eights around the track.
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Apr 25, 2016 03:24
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gradenko_2000 posted:Related to the post I made earlier, the way I would frame the question would be to try to find the kind of game not from a rules-heavy/rules-lite spectrum, but from a subject matter and theme POV. When I introduced one group of friends to TRPGs, I used Basic D&D but started emphasizing the combat rules and the tactical combat once it became clear to me that that was more what they were interested in, but for a different group I simplified the combat and played up the RP aspect when they kept wanting to talk to and negotiate with everyone and kept avoiding conflict. As has been said, PbtA is way better in that regard IMO in that only the MC has to really know what they're doing. The rest of the players at the table just need to describe what they do and maaaaybe have some idea what their moves do (though a MC familiar with the game probably has a decent idea when the players are triggering one of their moves).
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Apr 25, 2016 04:50
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ImpactVector posted:Not picking on you in particular, but I personally think it's a big mistake everyone makes equating Fate with rules-lite improv roleplaying stuff. Its mechanics are really involved, and everyone at the table actually needs to utilize them in a thoughtful way to make the system sing. That's fair, I'll cop to it, having said the same kind of thing before myself. My mind was just grasping for examples at the time.
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Apr 25, 2016 05:01
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If you guys don't already know about Karl the Deranged, well let me introduce Karl the DerangedHelical Nightmares posted:Warhammer 40k the Musical by this Karl guy I want to thank Cooked Auto for posting Karl in Grey Hunter's new Rogue Trader thread Cooked Auto posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo5ro1nWsPU Karl's 40k lovecraftian noir episode. https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLFxUO3AdwmnXoaGMfvZahdagQFgJ3Cnt2&v=X_dLcq6gyTk Chaos Descends: a chaos guardsman sitcom https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5enLrHSMuIs
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Apr 25, 2016 06:46
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Helical Nightmares posted:Someone really needs to make a Monopoly/ GTA Vice City crossover. Board expansions, hitmen, arson, electing corrupt officials, the whole nine yards. https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/59302/lordz-hood I played a ton of this when I was younger, but it never received wide distribution... The rules are similar to Monopoly, but you can chose to burn down properties rather than pay rent (with a random chance of screwing up and having to pay for repairs), set up illegal operations rather than building houses and hotels, and can hire Murder Inc to assassinate other players. It's not balanced at all, but it's quite fun.
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Apr 25, 2016 07:52
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Interesting. /tg/ is having a debate with the moderator about creating a quest only board /qst/
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Apr 28, 2016 01:04
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Isn't that practically the only thing that place is these days?
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Apr 28, 2016 01:06
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For someone on the outside of this, what the hell are you talking about?
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Apr 28, 2016 01:27
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Kwyndig posted:For someone on the outside of this, what the hell are you talking about? 4chan's /tg/ board has long been plagued by "Quest" threads, a form of interactive fiction, the vast majority of which is incredibly mediocre and a waste of board space
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Apr 28, 2016 01:31
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4 chan's traditional games subforumn /tg/. Quest Threads are
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Apr 28, 2016 01:31
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Helical Nightmares posted:Interesting. /tg/ is having a debate with the moderator about creating a quest only board /qst/ I remember making a thread asking for that poo poo back in loving 2012 when it was all over the place (still is). Even the Monstergirl and Elf porn threads were better than that.
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Apr 28, 2016 01:32
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/tg/, the traditional games board on the image board 4chan, is cluttered with quest threads and they're proposing a board specifically for those threads. Quest Threads are just a less archived and more filled with white supremacist version of those chose your own adventure threads on SA. Except they don't archive, are never finished, and are bad. But at least there's a lot of them!
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Apr 28, 2016 01:32
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Dorf Quest was funny but there wasn't a single good one other than it.
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Apr 28, 2016 01:33
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Ominous Jazz posted:/tg/, the traditional games board on the image board 4chan, is cluttered with quest threads and they're proposing a board specifically for those threads. Quest Threads are just a less archived and more filled with white supremacist version of those chose your own adventure threads on SA. Except they don't archive, are never finished, and are bad. But at least there's a lot of them! So the /pol/ containment plan didn't work out so well?
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Apr 28, 2016 01:37
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Nah. Lord Quest, Vampire Bride Quest (after the new OP picked up the game), Evil Quest (initially) and Corp quest were rather memorable. There are several that were good actually. I haven't checked the archive for several years though. Lord Quest is 2009. The others are older. Edit: I had a list of quests I read and enjoyed somewhere. Helical Nightmares fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Apr 28, 2016 |
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Apr 28, 2016 01:43
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Well then, that sounds boring. Lately I've been just playing games on my PC in the limited amount of time I can stand to be awake and active each day so I haven't been keeping up with off forums drama.
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Apr 28, 2016 01:43
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Helical Nightmares posted:Interesting. /tg/ is having a debate with the moderator about creating a quest only board /qst/ People have been asking for a board just for quests since before MLP got their own. I'd be honestly surprised if it got one at this point.
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Apr 28, 2016 04:00
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they're going to keep /tg/ as the primary quest forum and make /tgd/ for actual discussion
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Apr 28, 2016 04:05
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So do we hold SA CYOAs in higher regard is what I'm getting here?
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Apr 28, 2016 04:12
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gradenko_2000 posted:So do we hold SA CYOAs in higher regard is what I'm getting here? We have people who pay real money to display ads of CYOAs here, which is an obvious display of superiority,
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Apr 28, 2016 04:21
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gradenko_2000 posted:So do we hold SA CYOAs in higher regard is what I'm getting here? Beer for the Beer God's CYOA and Tias' were very good. Also LowellDND's. I know there are more.  Thanks for this man.
Helical Nightmares fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Apr 28, 2016 |
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Apr 28, 2016 04:38
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Okay, but are the people who are asking for quests to have their own forum the people that like them or the people that hate them?
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Apr 28, 2016 04:45
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DalaranJ posted:Okay, but are the people who are asking for quests to have their own forum the people that like them or the people that hate them? Does it really matter?
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Apr 28, 2016 05:10
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I'm not seeing why news about how the site even more full of racist/homophobic manbabies than SA organises its image boards is interesting.
Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 12:19 on Apr 28, 2016 |
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Apr 28, 2016 09:20
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i mean i dont tell other people to stop talking about things that dont interest me in a chat thread but w/e
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Apr 28, 2016 09:21
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Lemon-Lime posted:I'm not seeing why news about how the site even more full of racist/homophobic manbabies than SA is organises its image boards is interesting. Ah I see. Okay, next caller.
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Apr 28, 2016 11:36
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I was around for Ruby Quest, which I remember fondly. Other than that, I don't think I saw any other Quest threads that were even half as interesting.
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Apr 28, 2016 12:01
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Ominous Jazz posted:/tg/, the traditional games board on the image board 4chan, is cluttered with quest threads and they're proposing a board specifically for those threads. Quest Threads are just a less archived and more filled with white supremacist version of those chose your own adventure threads on SA. Except they don't archive, are never finished, and are bad. But at least there's a lot of them! There's sup/tg/ and 4plebs, both of which are archival services. TheLovablePlutonis posted:We have people who pay real money to display ads of CYOAs here, which is an obvious display of superiority, Hahaha, oh wow.
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Apr 28, 2016 12:14
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Bedlamdan posted:
Hey man, "Murder bronze age peasants because you are stronger than them" is a fine piece of advertising. Also Diogenes sure does know how to spin a yarn.
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Apr 28, 2016 13:29
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How okay would you be if your GM added a new rule when it became relevant, and not before? What prompted this question was Dreadful Secrets of Candlewick Manor. You play as creepy orphans with creppy body parts that give you creppy skills, right? And a big focus of the game is creating relationship with people even though you are creepy and unlovable. Relationships in that game can give you boosts, but if you fail the roll even with that boost that relationship is damaged. Now, the game proposes as an optional rule that if that happens to one of your players, you award them bonus points to their Creepy Skills, representing them becoming more monstrous as they become more isolated from humanity. If you were a player and this rule was not mentioned before it becomes relevant, which in my mind sounds like a great, exciting revelation, would you be mad that this rule was not made clear from the beginning? I'm afraid to look at things too much from my personal taste. This is all hypothetical of course, good luck finding an actual group willing to play that game. paradoxGentleman fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Apr 28, 2016 |
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Apr 28, 2016 13:51
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paradoxGentleman posted:How okay would you be if your GM added a new rule when it became relevant, and not before? As a GM I tend to only add/change rules at the end of sessions, and only with the consent of the entire group, and then also let players modify their characters fairly extensively in response to whatever consequences the rules change might have uncovered.
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Apr 28, 2016 16:20
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I say you can give people secret bonuses and twists, but not secret penalties.
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Apr 28, 2016 17:13
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Alternatively, be honest with them. Tell the players up-front that there are some mechanics that you'd like to keep invisible to them in the beginning but which may trigger during play, and you're keeping them secret because they're cool, interesting surprises that lose some of their emotional impact if you know they're coming. If you get serious pushback, talk it out and maybe reconsider this plan; otherwise, you're good to go.
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Apr 28, 2016 18:11
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