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You ever see the inside of a PBY Catalina, where they've inexplicably crammed 10 people into a 60 foot long airplane? Well, if the saucer is mainly composed of seating, you could probably fit about 200 people in it!
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May 4, 2016 04:39
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Wee Bairns posted:A couple of bad Excelsiors. Part of the blame might be a lack of source material at the time, part of it might just be laziness... Actually part of the blame is alcoholism. Tom Sutton pencilled nearly the entire run of DC's Star Trek (the 1984-1988 Volume 1), which had only reverted to DC because Marvel* had somehow hosed up their TMP based series in Paramount's eyes. Tom was normally a horror comic artist, but looked forward to the chance to branch into sci-fi. But as time went on, he began to literally resent doing Star Trek even though it was his bread and butter (for 50+ issues.) In an interview with Gary Groth of the Comics Journal, he cited two reasons: one, he began developing a drinking habit during drawing the series. The bar was only a block away from his studio. Two, he prided himself on being a complete artist, he often preferred to ink his own art, but due to the pressures of delivering a monthly comic, they gave the inking duties to a fellow called Ricardo Villagran. In the TCJ interview, he refused to even name him, because Tom would often go all out and throw in lavish background details that he painstakingly added for realism, only to see in the finished art that Ricardo had literally erased or blotted out his details. DC liked Ricardo because he worked fast and could ink multiple books simultaneously, and didn't care what got blotted out so long as it was handed in on time. Tom said that his DC contacts told him that Ricardo was 'so good that' he literally inked his work while watching TV in bed. Tom (who unfortunately passed away in 2002) went to the trouble of obtaining a Constitution refit model, photographed it from almost every possible angle, and cited that as the only reason for him being able to draw the Enterprise at all. Although he didn't mention getting an Excelsior model, it may have been him just deciding to phone it in by the time the Excelsior was being written into the story. I believe early issues will bear this out if you ever thumb through any of the reprints they did of Vol. 1. * From what I recall of the Marvel series, they literally pulled new alien races out of their asses and concentrated on TMP-like stories and hardly ever showed Klingons or Romulans, one issue ends literally with Kirk, Spock and McCoy going up in an elevator spewing some dumb platitudes while some alien that's supposedly achieving its form of nirvana just gives them the evil eye. It's like Paramount only licensed them the ship's crew, technology, and the Feds and nothing else. Binary Badger fucked around with this message at 04:50 on May 4, 2016 |
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May 4, 2016 04:45
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Wee Bairns posted:I've always got a chuckle from this image from the old Gold Key comics that while claiming that the ship had hundreds of people onboard, it could really hold about twenty... I love the idea of the Enterprise being this cramped, hot space constantly beset with frenetic activity. Crewmen shout from the saucer section to the men stoking the warp engines in stardrive: "We need more power! Warp 3 isn't fast enough to outrun the Abcdefghi warship !!!" Binary Badger posted:
Nice! Depressing as gently caress! Brawnfire fucked around with this message at 04:52 on May 4, 2016 |
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May 4, 2016 04:49
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MikeJF posted:I don't, but I kinda want a shelf of little golden Enterprises. I wonder if polystyrene can survive bronzing.
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May 4, 2016 05:16
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Tom often got poo poo about how the characters didn't look quite like their real life actors, but IMHO it was Villagran's inking that made everybody look the same. One last thing I'll mention about Tom Sutton and the DC Trek.. oh actually, I think you'd probably want to hear his version, which is a little funny when you realize who might be accosting him. Tom Sutton and Gary Groth posted:GROTH: You were not happy with your professional career at this point. Also the same reason I kind of stopped going to cons.. there was a period where the 'backup four' (Nichols, Takei, Koenig, Doohan) had less and less interest in doing shows and the cons were doing poo poo like having super bit players as honored guests (Come meet Ensign Garrovick or Red Shirt guy from Arena) or stuff like having Angelique Pettyjohn from the Gamesters of Triskelion literally spend half an hour talking about her bit role and the other half dancing with her warmed over Amok Time prop. She was also selling a standup cardboard cutout of herself for, what, I think it was $50? She also offered a nude version for $200. BTW, Angélique passed away in 1992. Binary Badger fucked around with this message at 05:26 on May 4, 2016 |
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May 4, 2016 05:23
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Binary Badger posted:Tom was normally a horror comic artist, but looked forward to the chance to branch into sci-fi. Oh, I thought someone had had some fun drawing what happens when that nick-of-time transport away from disruptor fire is just a fraction of a second too late...  Also this spread is pretty boss:  Also: Binary Badger posted:"I said, Robin works for Batman. Go away. Oh, she was loving severe. She was going to kill me." That's loving hilarious. I'm afraid in my ignorance I'm still unsure who that was, though.
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May 4, 2016 06:07
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Cythereal posted:Does anyone seriously want to see that movie? We're not lacking for generic sci-fi action schlock. Are you high? I'm pretty sure you can count the number of tv shows and movies set in outer space released in the last calendar year on one hand.
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May 4, 2016 06:25
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Binary Badger posted:A great many of the Gold Key Trek comics, from which this image is lifted, was done by a fellow named Alberto Giolitti. He was an Italian comic book artist who lived in Italy and he also churned out comics adaptations of other TV shows, especially westerns, for which he learned to ride a horse and kept lots of Western paraphernalia around for reference. Ah yeah, that's where that bit where the Enterprise lands and the crew is lowered from the little glowy thing on the bottom of the saucer is from.
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May 4, 2016 06:27
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bull3964 posted:Regardless, from a strategy standpoint, this whole effort has been a failure for Paramount. They couldn't make it their billion dollar franchise despite geek culture being mainstream. They didn't go into this with the intent of their movies grossing double their budget. They wanted something to capture a slice of what Disney is building with Marvel and Star Wars. It should have been theoretically possible, at least on a certain scale, but the execution was fumbled. At least they didn't lose their shirt over it completely. The problem is that they haven't even loving paid their dues. Yeah, sure, The Avengers grossed 1.5 gigabucks, but that film was the culmination of a very deliberate plan that spanned several years and several other movies building up fanbases and hype. Look at the precursor films - Iron Man, Captain America, etc - they pulled in roughly the same numbers that ST09 and STID did. But where Marvel released five movies in three years prior to The Avengers, Paramount will have only done three movies in seven years. Plus Marvel's got other properties running at the same time - comic books, television - whereas Paramount had some super lovely video games and one comic book miniseries. There's no loving comparison when it comes to who's been actually trying to build a brand. Paramount basically expected to pull in gigabucks just because everyone's heard of Captain Kirk and Mr. Spock and phasers on stun. It's bullshit, it was never that big a moneymaker, and it certainly wasn't going to be after only one or two movies. Star Trek's cultural peak happened at a time when the TV and film markets were incredibly different from what they are today, and when in any major television market in the US you could expect to see both TOS reruns and TNG episodes somewhere on the dial on any given week. If Paramount's unhappy with the money they've pulled in, that's on Paramount's grossly unrealistic expectations. As much as I might bitch and quibble about the new movies, I don't think better writing would have really made them so wildly profitable as to push a billion dollars at the box office. And honestly, given their situation, can they really afford to be so choosy about what they make? What the hell else do they have going for them that's going to make them those gigabucks they've convinced themselves they need (because they're feeling serious penis envy when they go golfing with other movie execs)? Put another way, if you went back in time and told Paramount "hey, this Star Trek reboot is a dead-end, you're not getting the huge cash cow you think you are", what would they have bankrolled instead?
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May 4, 2016 06:38
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:That's loving hilarious. I'm afraid in my ignorance I'm still unsure who that was, though. It was Robin Curtis, the 'second Saavik' herself, she was a guest at the con
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May 4, 2016 06:40
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Man I just remembered a favorite theory I had that First Contact could have been a TNG/DS9 hybrid movie. Imagine, instead of Worf commanding the Defiant at the Battle of Sector 001, it's the motherfuckin' Sisko (and crew). They go back in time with the rest of the Enterprise team, and now you have two crews working together to save the planet. Cue some intense scenes between Sisko and Picard (just hear Avery Brooks' reciting the "Jean-Luc BLOW up the drat SHIP!" line instead of Lily Sloan), some fun character-building between Miles and Geordi while working on the Phoenix, Data and Odo kicking Borg rear end on the ship...
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May 4, 2016 06:55
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Drone posted:Man I just remembered a favorite theory I had that First Contact could have been a TNG/DS9 hybrid movie. Sisko and Picard vs the Borg would be an interesting storyline. Does Sisko try to out PTSD Picard or does Sisko get to be "Man, I used to hate this guy for killing my wife, but I think he actually got more screwed over by the experience"?
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May 4, 2016 07:12
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Instead of replicating Thompsons and shooting the Borg, they just sit in the bar and drink, going "friggin' Borg, man."
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May 4, 2016 07:14
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Cat Hatter posted:Sisko and Picard vs the Borg would be an interesting storyline. Picard was abducted, mutilated/violated, and used as a weapon against his friends, causing the deaths of a bunch of Federation officers. Pretty sure Jean-Luc wins that one.
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May 4, 2016 07:16
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Drone posted:(just hear Avery Brooks' reciting the "Jean-Luc BLOW up the drat SHIP!" line instead of Lily Sloan) I can hear this in his voice and it's glorious. I never knew how much I wanted this.
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May 4, 2016 07:17
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FilthyImp posted:Sisko lost a loved one and saw a bunch of people die. I probably side with Picard having the more traumatic experience too, but I still think it would have been an interesting thing to explore in the hypothetical film since their experiences were both horrible but in very different ways. Picard knows he killed scores of his comrades on an academic level, but Sisco had a much more visceral experience being dragged kicking and screaming from what used to be his wife and the burning rubble that used to be their home. I think they could have easily gotten 2 hours of material out of that.
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May 4, 2016 09:31
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Idris Elba is playing a dude named Krall in the new movie, and he belongs to a species that is apparently new to the Star Trek universe. They're supposed to be very isolationist and have a hatred of the Federation due to a perceived mistreatment.
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May 4, 2016 09:33
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Gonz posted:Idris Elba is playing a dude named Krall in the new movie, and he belongs to a species that is apparently new to the Star Trek universe. They're supposed to be very isolationist and have a hatred of the Federation due to a perceived mistreatment. It's a pity they got Idris Elba but shoved him under so much makeup you'll probably barely be able to see him act. Hopefully it's not too constricting.
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May 4, 2016 09:36
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Drone posted:Man I just remembered a favorite theory I had that First Contact could have been a TNG/DS9 hybrid movie. I've had so many conversations with my friend about this exact thing. Cut Lily from the film, replace with Sisko and Picard crawling through the ship instead. Cut Data/Borg Queen storyline, replace with extended tension between the crews. Kira as an experienced frontline soldier who spent her life fighting a superior force clashes with Riker over Picard's orders before disappearing as being wasteful, risky and indicative of clouded judgment, while Riker chafes over his loyalty to Picard and a non-Starfleet officer who's never fought the Borg (and perhaps reminds him too much of Ro and Shelby) questioning his orders. Worf, O'brien, and Crusher, caught between loyalties but with the luxury of the Chain of Command and the hard work of trying to hold things together on the front lines to insulate them from the leadership crisis, offer their own insights but mostly handle action scenes and roll with various Movie Budget Borg punches. While Riker and Kira's fight remains an intellectual (if still emotional) one, in the bowels of the ship Picard and Sisko get VERY personal, only occasional encounters with drones keeping them from each other's throats as they try to make their way back to the bridge, tension building for their ultimate confrontation in the ready room once they do. Meanwhile down on the planet, the history plot is expanded to account for all of the people that could potentially diffuse this situation trying to fix Zephram Cochrane. Data, Dax, Odo, Troi, Laforge and Bashir all offer their differing views on the various idealism-to-cynicism scale points on the situation as they reconcile Cochrane to his future and their own views of history with its reality. If there's time, throw in a C-plot with Guinan, Garak and Quark in 10-Forward drinking through the crisis. That would own.
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May 4, 2016 09:38
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Welp, there's some fanfic fodder.
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May 4, 2016 09:57
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.....and then.....and then Kirk shows up for some reason and shouts "HEY, EVERYBODY! WE'RE ALL GONNA GET LAID!" while a Kenny Loggins song plays. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rmPckNvD3E
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May 4, 2016 10:00
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What's that? You ALSO want me to talk about the alternate version I outlined where Kira is the Main Character because at the time Avery Brooks despised Star Trek and wouldn't have come back for a movie? I mean, if you really insist...
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May 4, 2016 10:07
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I just want a Star Trek movie that is nothing but corrupt Starfleet admirals planning various crimes against other species, despite the fact that they know it's wrong and they could get court martialed for it. They have a country club just for Admirals and that's where they go to unwind and plot genocides and coups while enjoying real alcohol and strippers and gambling. It's called Star Trek: Cognative Dissonance and it turns out that Nog is the one who eventually uncovers the whole conspiracy. Directed by John Waters.
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May 4, 2016 10:18
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There is no way in hell you could squeeze two full ensembles into a single 2-hour movie without reducing most of them to two-line bit characters. Even in the movies that only have one crew there's still usually a few characters that get cheated out of a proper character arc (like aforementioned 'backup four' in most of the movies). Doubling the crew size just means there's less breathing room for everyone and you have to pay a bunch of semi-famous actors for what are basically nothing parts. Basically the same reason Nimoy wouldn't be in Generations. It's still a shame DS9 never got a movie, but squeezing them into First Contact wouldn't have been much of a consolation prize (and could easily have ruined the only good TNG movie). That's not to say I don't like the mixed crew idea. You just couldn't do it with the full ensembles. If Worf had taken one extra DS9 character with him (like Dax might've been fun), that could have worked for First Contact (though that movie is already a little crowded). Or if you had a few people from each crew stuck together for whatever reason, that could work (though I can't imagine that getting greenlit in the 90s). It's a shame too, because they already had the crossover potential for a true "cinematic universe," but they were too busy stripmining TNG and TOS to recognize their other properties (not that I'd have gone to see a Voyager or Enterprise movie anyway). Who knows, maybe if they ever make that "Captain Worf" show (they won't), we'll get to see both of his former crews acknowledged. Of course, the TNG crew are all a bit creaky these days and most of the best DS9 characters are dead, retired, or trapped in space heaven so maybe there's not much point.
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May 4, 2016 11:15
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Binary Badger, thanks for the comic artist history lesson, that's some interesting information! While, as illustrated, some of the artwork in the old comics was just bad, a lot of it was reaaaaaally good too, especially a lot of the two page spreads. (In the DC run especially, though Gold Key had some decent artwork as well in it's later issues). The first, post-TMP Marvel stories were surprisingly well done based on the restrictions imposed upon them, as well. The Peter Pan comic/record sets were also done by an artist with obviously very limited source materials, as they featured a white, blond Uhura and a black Sulu. (Though I wonder if they simply didn't have a license for those actor's character/image.}
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May 4, 2016 11:23
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Wee Bairns posted:The Peter Pan comic/record sets were also done by an artist with obviously very limited source materials, as they featured a white, blond Uhura and a black Sulu. (Though I wonder if they simply didn't have a license for those actor's character/image.} Sad, but not too surprising. Despite Trek's vaunted ~diversity~, Sulu and Uhura were far and away the least developed regulars on the show (though Scotty is also a contender). The other characters got to have love interests and backstories and lots of character quirks and, you know, first names, but those two were always defined by their jobs except for a few instances of fencing and fan dancing. It's really a credit to Nichols and Takei that they're as well remembered as they are because they got some pretty thankless roles that in the hands of less charismatic actors would have been completely forgettable. Just look at Sulu flying the Huey in The One With the Whales. It's not much of a character arc -- it's barely an aside, but drat it if Takei doesn't sell it.
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May 4, 2016 12:59
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There were several bits of character stuff for Takei in particular that have been cut for time and/or Shatner, especially throughout the movies. Like him getting news of his new posting as Excelsior's commander in WoK and several scenes in IV such as meeting his great-great-whatever grandparent, as well as a scene of him stealing the aforementioned chopper.
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May 4, 2016 13:24
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Duckbag posted:Sad, but not too surprising. Despite Trek's vaunted ~diversity~, Sulu and Uhura were far and away the least developed regulars on the show (though Scotty is also a contender). The other characters got to have love interests Ahem 
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May 4, 2016 13:53
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O'Brien: Well, the aliens hosed over the carbonator on engine number four. Maybe we can refuckulate it and land on Juniper. Hopefully they got some space weed. LaForge: Maybe that's how things work down in the transporter room, but in Main Engineering, we do things by the book. O'Brien: I'm not in the transporter room anymore! Maybe if you every went down there, you'd actually notice I've been gone for four years. I'm the chief engineer of a re-purposed cardassian space station now. I have a best friend and he loves me.
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May 4, 2016 14:06
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Cojawfee posted:O'Brien: Well, the aliens hosed over the carbonator on engine number four. Maybe we can refuckulate it and land on Juniper. Hopefully they got some space weed. It true. I mean, Miles had a wife, a hetero life partner, a fertile Cardassian lusting after his Irish abrasiveness, AND a... we're-legitimately-worried-well-have-an-affair-if-left-alone-in-a-romantic-setting thing with Kira. Geordi couldn't even get a date with his own holographic girlfriend! I think we all know who won the Start Trucks on that score.
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May 4, 2016 14:17
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Sanguinia posted:It true. I mean, Miles had a wife, a hetero life partner, a fertile Cardassian lusting after his Irish abrasiveness, AND a... we're-legitimately-worried-well-have-an-affair-if-left-alone-in-a-romantic-setting thing with Kira. Geordi couldn't even get a date with his own holographic girlfriend! I think we all know who won the Start Trucks on that score. Counterpoint: Geordi doesn't have to sleep next to Keiko.
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May 4, 2016 14:25
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I feel like O'Brien's head would have exploded if he heard Geordi's "Maybe that's how things work in the lab, but out here in the field blah blah blah." Geordi thinks working on the most advanced ship in the fleet is "the field" when O'Brien has to deal with all kinds of weird alien poo poo, not to mention Quark's holosuites held together by spatulas.
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May 4, 2016 14:32
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Well now I want to know what kind of dress Picard would have pulled up for Sisko during the Holodeck scene.
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May 4, 2016 14:35
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Mind you Geordi and O'Brien do have plenty of experience being abducted and mind screwed so they could still find common ground in the nick of time to save the day.
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May 4, 2016 14:37
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Now that I think more about First Contact... so did nobody on Cochrane's existing staff for the Phoenix project suddenly question the appearance of dozens of geniuses who show up out of nowhere to repair the ship and get it launched within an 18 hour timespan, who then just as suddenly disappear after the flight? And was there really nobody there who was like, "um, so why do these two guys nobody knows get to fly with Zeke on the trip, and not Jim and Bob as the project had aligned months ago?"
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May 4, 2016 14:39
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Drone posted:And was there really nobody there who was like, "um, so why do these two guys nobody knows get to fly with Zeke on the trip, and not Jim and Bob as the project had aligned months ago?" Wasn't it meant to be Lily? It feels like the project didn't have much of a staff left, especially with Cochrane being a crazy drunk. Maybe most of it had been pre-WW3 and then it was a few years of Cochrane and Lily and a few others working away to get it finished off afterwards. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 14:53 on May 4, 2016 |
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May 4, 2016 14:45
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Drone posted:Now that I think more about First Contact... so did nobody on Cochrane's existing staff for the Phoenix project suddenly question the appearance of dozens of geniuses who show up out of nowhere to repair the ship and get it launched within an 18 hour timespan, who then just as suddenly disappear after the flight? I think the novelization states that the other pilots of the capsule were killed in the Borg attack.
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May 4, 2016 14:46
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It's been years since I've seen First Contact and while it certainly wasn't the tightest script ever written, I'm fairly certain there was some quick lines while Picard and co were investigating the blitzing of Cochrane's shanty town that most of the main project guys were killed. Which conveniently left a few spaces open on project.
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May 4, 2016 14:49
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I want to see the alternate timeline where Riker convinces Zefram Cochrane to pursue his dream of drinking exotic alcohols and plowing alien babes.
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May 4, 2016 14:58
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Cojawfee posted:O'Brien: Well, the aliens hosed over the carbonator on engine number four. Maybe we can refuckulate it and land on Juniper. Hopefully they got some space weed. Cojawfee posted:I feel like O'Brien's head would have exploded if he heard Geordi's "Maybe that's how things work in the lab, but out here in the field blah blah blah." Geordi thinks working on the most advanced ship in the fleet is "the field" when O'Brien has to deal with all kinds of weird alien poo poo, not to mention Quark's holosuites held together by spatulas. O'Brien already burned Geordi way back in the second season when he called out Geordi for bitching up a huge storm over starbase technicians actually doing their jobs and thoroughly checking over the engine room, Geordi says "oh yeah? how'd you feel if they were inspecting the transporter rooms?" and O'Brien comes back with "cool, i'd be happy to show off how loving awesome we are at our jobs." (also, love the TPB reference) Sanguinia posted:It true. I mean, Miles had a wife, a hetero life partner, a fertile Cardassian lusting after his Irish abrasiveness, AND a... we're-legitimately-worried-well-have-an-affair-if-left-alone-in-a-romantic-setting thing with Kira. Geordi couldn't even get a date with his own holographic girlfriend! I think we all know who won the Start Trucks on that score. I have no evidence whatsoever, but I'm certain that the writers probably had at least a discussion (if not an outright argument) over whether to actually have O'Brien cheat on his wife, and I'm curious how long they spent going back and forth over it. Binary Badger posted:It was Robin Curtis, the 'second Saavik' herself, she was a guest at the con Pffffffthahahahaha
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May 4, 2016 15:48
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