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SnatchRabbit posted:Who was the terrorist guy in the opening sequence? Does he have a comic analogue? I thought Deadshot but that can't be right. That was Crossbones.
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May 8, 2016 23:40
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Just got back from seeing Civil War. Film was missing the perfect pacing of the Winter Soldier. Like Batman vs. Superman it was 30 minutes too long and felt like it was just checking off a list of epic moments that it had to have. I loved seeing the superheroes fight, especially the finale fight sequence, but it felt so hollow and pointless. I liked it because of reasons basically? Iron Man could have just let Captain America go and do his thing uninterrupted and nothing would have changed. Once you get to the ending you come to the realize that this is a blatant setup for Infinity War. The other Marvel movies do this but they still have their own self contained storyline and resolve that point in each film, this didn't have that.SnatchRabbit posted:Who was the terrorist guy in the opening sequence? Does he have a comic analogue? I thought Deadshot but that can't be right. Deadshot is DC Comics. :P That was Crossbones, he was one of the bad guys from Winter Soldier, he almost died when the Shield building was destroyed, but he was rescued. I said come in! fucked around with this message at 00:03 on May 9, 2016 |
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May 9, 2016 00:00
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Eh, I didn't think CW was too bad in regards to setting up for future films. I thought this one told a complete story of the breakup of the Avengers, only hinting about getting the band back together in future films. Spider-Man was probably the most blatant plug for his next film, but Panther was very well woven into the fabric of this one. He got a solid arc that could stand on it's own even if we weren't getting another film next year.
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May 9, 2016 00:59
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Couple questions, mostly ending spoiler stuff Without the trademark shield what's Cap going to use going forward? I'm surface level comic books and all I recall ever seeing him with is the shield so him tossing it aside and leaving had me curious. Similar was War Machine's fate. I don't think they'll completely bench him but is he just going to appear in the future without fully working legs or something?
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May 9, 2016 01:06
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Couple questions, mostly ending spoiler stuff He'll probably either get it back, or simply get a new one. He's in Wakanda now, the source of all the world's Vibranium - Black Panther's suit and claws are made out of the stuff.
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May 9, 2016 01:09
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Cythereal posted:He'll probably either get it back, or simply get a new one. He's in Wakanda now, the source of all the world's Vibranium - Black Panther's suit and claws are made out of the stuff. I imagine Cap's next appearance will be Tony calling him and telling him the current Avengers need the Captain. Tony handing Cap the shield will be a visual "olive branch" to use Tony's own wording.
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May 9, 2016 01:12
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Strangely enough, the climax borrows a lot from the surprise twist of Oldboy, in terms of its emotional beats. The revelation sends the protagonist into a flying rage. The villain doesn't even care if he dies in the end, as long as he gets the protagonists to feel the pain he felt. The pacing of the revelation was very good and it's shameful that did a better Oldboy twist than the US remake of Oldboy.
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May 9, 2016 01:16
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Steve Yun posted:Strangely enough, the climax borrows a lot from the surprise twist of Oldboy, in terms of its emotional beats. The revelation sends the protagonist into a flying rage. The villain doesn't even care if he dies in the end, as long as he gets the protagonists to feel the pain he felt. That's a good observation. I'm glad they didn't go all out with it and reveal (Oldboy spoiler) Sharon Carter was really Steve's grand daughter all along.
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May 9, 2016 01:22
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Cythereal posted:Winter Soldier. Zola said Hydra killed the Starks, and given the movie that means it was Bucky who did the job. I'm pretty sure the flashing newspapers ends focusing on the Winter Soldier, so presumably Cap and Black Widow knew that. How he was projecting those images I don't know you just have to roll with it on that plot point. Other than that great movie, surprisingly self-reflective of American foreign policy for a Hollywood film.
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May 9, 2016 01:32
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DrakePegasus posted:Also, why wouldn't people clap during movies? They're in a theater. The film makers aren't present. You don't deserve a clap for liking a film, even collectively. How gauche. it is a culture thing
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May 9, 2016 01:35
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Couple questions, mostly ending spoiler stuff He did his stint as Nomad without the shield. He had a shield as 'The Captain', but I believe it was inferior to the original. I could see him taking on one of those identities and getting a new shield from Wakanda. I'm also bummed we'll never see Steve take on an insane replacement Captain America, because that would make an interesting movie.
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May 9, 2016 01:54
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Cap knew that the Starks were murdered, but he didn't know it was Bucky who did it. "Did you know?" "I didn't know it was him-" "Did you know?!?" "...Yes." Phylodox fucked around with this message at 02:51 on May 9, 2016 |
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May 9, 2016 02:01
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I'm fairly certain Cap was able to put 2 and 2 together during Zola's bit of exposition in Winter Soldier and come to the conclusion that Bucky killed the Starks, especially when the next dead SHIELD person that Zola popped up was Fury.
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May 9, 2016 02:12
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Phylodox posted:Cap knew that the Starks were murdered, but he didn't know it was Bucky who did it. This really landed and made the finale for me. It's when I knew that poo poo was gonna hit the fan and their relationship was shattered. Cap definitely knows that the Starks were murdered based on what the Zola AI tells him during Winter Soldier, and I feel like at the very least he would have been worried Bucky was responsible. Hydra took credit for killing the Starks, and Bucky was working for Hydra. But my impression in the moment was that Cap was just kind of flabbergasted and doing his best to lie to a friend, but he couldn't do it and admitted that he knew Bucky had done it. I feel like Cap's a smart enough guy to put two and two together, and he has ample time alone with a sensible Bucky to ask him about it. The letter at the end certainly suggests that Cap knew Bucky had killed them and kept that from Tony to spare him, though since it doesn't get overly specific you could read that either way. It'd be nice to hear from the Russos at some point what they intended, though I imagine once it's out on DVD/Bluray you can just re-watch those two scenes at your leisure and it'll be pretty clear what the situation is. Man this was such a drat good movie, but I admit I just want Thor: Ragnarok to be a happy go lucky funtime adventure now to cleanse my mind. NowonSA fucked around with this message at 02:24 on May 9, 2016 |
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May 9, 2016 02:20
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AbsolutelySane posted:He did his stint as Nomad without the shield. He had a shield as 'The Captain', but I believe it was inferior to the original. I could see him taking on one of those identities and getting a new shield from Wakanda. I'm also bummed we'll never see Steve take on an insane replacement Captain America, because that would make an interesting movie. Tony's got the shield and half a team, he might seek a replacement Cap in the mean time. Maybe he'll be pressured by some members of the US/UN to install a few dubious members into the avengers, like Hood or Nuke or Osborne or someone who can escalate and ruin things more leading up to the infinity gauntlet.
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May 9, 2016 02:23
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Goffer posted:Tony's got the shield and half a team, he might seek a replacement Cap in the mean time. Maybe he'll be pressured by some members of the US/UN to install a few dubious members into the avengers, like Hood or Nuke or Osborne or someone who can escalate and ruin things more leading up to the infinity gauntlet. More likely, I think Tony is going to try hanging up the suits again, probably keeping the shield with its claw marks as a symbol of his failure and taking on Spiderman as a protege who will hopefully gently caress up less than Tony himself did when he tried using his inventions and gifts to make the world a better place. Hopefully the narrative will be kinder to Peter than it's been to Tony.
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May 9, 2016 02:27
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I'd love to see some fill-in members on the Avengers when Infinity War comes along. If nothing else he can try to recruit Strange, Panther, Spider-man and Captain Marvel to make a more sizeable team, then when poo poo looks dark Cap's team can basically be Gandalf leading a group of badasses down to save Helm's Deep. There's already a big "too many characters" problem for Infinity War, but I'd be stoked to see at least 1 or 2 new members on Cap's secret avengers squad, they'll have brought in like all the big names they have the license to but there's bound to be some names that would raise some eyebrows.
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May 9, 2016 02:28
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Scyantific posted:I'm fairly certain Cap was able to put 2 and 2 together during Zola's bit of exposition in Winter Soldier and come to the conclusion that Bucky killed the Starks, especially when the next dead SHIELD person that Zola popped up was Fury. If anything, I'm sure Cap just willed himself not to know. He's absolutely dedicated to Bucky, but Tony is his good friend and fellow Avenger. With that conflict of interest there, the second he started making that connection, if he did, his brain probably just said "Nope". Phylodox fucked around with this message at 02:52 on May 9, 2016 |
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May 9, 2016 02:33
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Eh, I think the other way around is more likely - Tony and Rhodey and Vision hang up their hats and go into retirement. It's a huge part of Cap's character is that he never, ever stops fighting whether the fight at hand needs to be fought or not. Tony is the one who sees Iron Man as a job he clocks in and out of, and with as weary and ground down as he his at this point, I think the most fitting dramatic approach would be for him to say "gently caress this, I'm out and maybe people will goddamn let me stay out this time" only for Cap or someone else (Peter would be good for this, or for dramatic irony points Wanda) rekindling Tony's idealism and hope to bring him out of retirement when Thanos comes.
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May 9, 2016 02:34
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Phylodox posted:If anything, I'm sure Cap just willed himself not to know. He's absolutely dedicated to Bucky, but Tony is his good friend and fellow Avenger. With that conflict of interest there, the second he started making that connection, if he did, his brain probably just said "Nope". Yeah, this is probably the middle ground that I can totally get behind. That makes a lot of sense to me. I also just realized that the bad guy's plan completely falls through if Sam doesn't spill the beans and Cap is willing to keep a terrible secret from one friend to protect another. Panther wouldn't have been there either since he followed Tony.
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May 9, 2016 02:41
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NowonSA posted:I also just realized that the bad guy's plan completely falls through if Sam doesn't spill the beans and Cap is willing to keep a terrible secret from one friend to protect another. Panther wouldn't have been there either since he followed Tony. Not really. Doing the big reveal right there wasn't vital to Zemo's plan. That was a cherry on top. He just went there to get the mission footage, presumably to disseminate at his leisure. EDIT: It helps if you think of this movie as Captain America: Everything Goes Insanely Better Than Zemo Could Have Possibly Hoped For. Phylodox fucked around with this message at 02:51 on May 9, 2016 |
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May 9, 2016 02:46
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As the movie presented them I sided with the Accords (I saw it as less "This panel will control everything" and more "Let's work with the Avengers a bit more closely so we're all on the same page a bit more") but gawddamn did Wanda all tied up and sad really got to me.  E: best audience reaction thing I experienced in a long time came from this movie, both times I've seen it so far. Just as the 1991 tape plays, there's this wave of murmurs throughout the crowd : it's his parents... his parents... Oh God... MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 03:05 on May 9, 2016 |
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May 9, 2016 02:48
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Batham posted:
Even if they weren't in the theatre, they still heard it and appreciated it. 
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May 9, 2016 02:51
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What confuses me a bit about Tony not knowing about his parents' murder is that the press already knew the Winter Soldier was Bucky Barnes. So presumably that info was included in what Black Widow dumped on the internet at the end of WS. Wouldn't his mission reports have also probably been in that info? Even if Tony didn't go through all the files himself, I'm sure in the space of 2 years either FRIDAY or some random person would find it.
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May 9, 2016 03:14
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That was really good! The theater applauded at the end lol. Much better than BvS.
RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 04:00 on May 9, 2016 |
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May 9, 2016 03:21
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the Russos did a good job of showcasing how physically tough Cap is once again, from pulling down a drat helicopter to "I can do this all day". continuing what they did in Winter Soldier where Cap barreled through that office building
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May 9, 2016 03:24
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Radio! posted:What confuses me a bit about Tony not knowing about his parents' murder is that the press already knew the Winter Soldier was Bucky Barnes. So presumably that info was included in what Black Widow dumped on the internet at the end of WS. Wouldn't his mission reports have also probably been in that info? Even if Tony didn't go through all the files himself, I'm sure in the space of 2 years either FRIDAY or some random person would find it.
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May 9, 2016 03:28
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Kurzon posted:That Hydra murdered the Starks was not in the files, that was something Arnim Zola told Cap. I guess Cap didn't feel like mentioning that in whatever report he wrote. What report? Who would the report have been for?
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May 9, 2016 03:31
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No, that's a legitimate question. Zemo only knew the details of there being something that could hurt the Avengers from Hydra's files. I can only assume that it was buried or obfuscated in some way that told Zemo what he wanted to know, but the actual video file and proof was only stored on the Siberian base.
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May 9, 2016 03:35
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 oh god I thought that was a water truck
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May 9, 2016 03:37
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It's really bizarre that these films contain basically no indication of how any of these weird-rear end organizations actually work, so this idea that they need oversight is like "they didn't already?". I found the politics of the movie to be an utter mess, due to the questions that were already brought up. I guess after SHIELD collapsed, the Avengers have just been private citizens waging war across the globe with no sanction or oversight. They got away with creating a genocidal robot army and destroying a city, but when 15 aide workers died in a shootout with terrorists in Nigeria, that was the tipping point? Every moral/political dilemma that follows is likewise a mess that produced a lot of "Wait, but weren't they...?" moments for me. For example, when Tony is talking to Hawkguy and Falcon in The Raft and he says "It was your choice, you broke the law." Wait, so everything Tony did after he signed that paperwork was legal? Did I miss that UN panel being convened? I have to admit, it stuck in my craw because I'm a Captain America fanboy and his political stance here is like some weird combination of liberal and sovereign citizen. He doesn't trust government oversight, but it's okay for a cabal to wield immense power as long as he's convinced they're all good guys. That said, I was thoroughly entertained by the dialogue and the action direction in this movie. The big hero vs. hero fights were really satisfying, conveying a sense of each character's unique abilities and personality. I like Zack Snyder but I do zone out after the millionth ton of concrete and glass explodes, and this movie was mercifully light on urban destruction porn.
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May 9, 2016 03:45
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We have private military contractors. "Private citizens showing up and making a bad situation worse" isn't exactly a foreign concept.
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May 9, 2016 03:48
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Clapping after a movie, when the filmmakers are not present, irks me but nothing gets more hot and bothered than nerds who go see an opening weekend showing of an MCU movie and don't even stay for the post-credit scenes. How dare you!
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May 9, 2016 03:53
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MisterBibs posted:
When he starts bellowing laughter after becoming Giant Man I lost it. I loved how.... well.... comic-booky that whole fight scene was, with everybody mostly pulling their punches at first and even showing off a little until poo poo started to get serious. It contrasted so nicely with the final fight which had actual real honest-to-God emotional resonance to it. Airpport fight scene: "Awesome these friends are fighting each other!  "Final fight scene: "Oh God no these friends are fighting each other!  "
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May 9, 2016 03:59
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Classtoise posted:We have private military contractors. "Private citizens showing up and making a bad situation worse" isn't exactly a foreign concept. It also seems to me like they tried to show both sides of the issue as equally flawed by having the pro-Accords side commit individual acts of oppression (such as putting Wanda under house arrest and not even trying to capture the Winter Soldier) whereas Cap's stance is astonishingly stupid in concept.
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May 9, 2016 04:15
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Captain America, hero of Captain America: Civil War, goes to the funeral of a dead ex-girlfriend, looks at the niece of his dead ex-girlfriend giving a eulogy for his dead ex-girlfriend, and thinks, "I want to hit that"
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May 9, 2016 05:09
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FutonForensic posted:Captain America, hero of Captain America: Civil War, goes to the funeral of a dead ex-girlfriend, looks at the niece of his dead ex-girlfriend giving a eulogy for his dead ex-girlfriend, and thinks, "I want to hit that" To be fair, Emily VanCamp is really goddamned cute. e: this isn't genchat. this isn't genchat at all. MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 06:07 on May 9, 2016 |
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May 9, 2016 05:12
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I didn't know there were so many people that want Cap and Bucky to kiss
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May 9, 2016 05:17
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FutonForensic posted:Captain America, hero of Captain America: Civil War, goes to the funeral of a dead ex-girlfriend, looks at the niece of his dead ex-girlfriend giving a eulogy for his dead ex-girlfriend, and thinks, "I want to hit that" To be fair, they (sort of) introduced the pairing in WS. However, that "reveal" made it really awkward and was the worst part of the movie for me.
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May 9, 2016 05:18
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Lots of people sure are rear end mad they assigned Cap's "You move" quote to Peggy.
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May 9, 2016 05:20
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