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I'll definitely be talking more about the hyper-conservative Mormon stuff when we get to the Towns chapter.
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May 13, 2016 17:53
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The hyper-conservative Mormon stuff is the whole point. I always enjoyed Apocalypse World despite thinking that a collapse of global civilization would be unpleasant to live through. I'm not about to get squicked out roleplaying a preacher telling kids premarital sex causes demon possession.
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May 13, 2016 18:53
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I dunno, I suppose I just have a hard time getting into that mentality without a certain knowing wink and smile that it's satire or actively acknowledging that you're playing the bad guy (see Warhammer). Maybe it's that this stuff strikes closer to home.
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May 13, 2016 18:57
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At the same time people are totally in the right if they have problems doing so to not play the game. It's designed to be a point of stress because it's something that people are dealing with actively in the real world now.
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May 13, 2016 19:00
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Mr. Maltose posted:You can escalate at first go to lethal force, by giving at the first raise then escalating all the way up to gunplay. It probably won't end well, but you definitely can. There is actually a slight issue in the system here. If you pull your gun, and the other guy says "whoa, there, calm down!" and you decide you actually should calm down and you put your gun away, there's no rules for clawing back the dice you got that you were supposed to be using for shooting. So suddenly, you become better at arguing because you pulled your gun and put it away again. It's a bit pedantic, but it's there. And ugh, Shadowrun 4e characters. Half of the sample characters are allergic to gold for no reason at all - thus giving every munchkin player justification to take irrelevant disadvantages because "it's in the example!". I keep wondering if I should write up Ghost Cartels but just its characters would be enough: Me ranting on a Shadowrun forum years ago posted:- Chikao, a Yakuza lieutenant, has a Shotgun with no skill in using it. His description states he may use "a submachine gun", but he doesn't have one nor the skill to use one. His Yakuza soldiers have Assault Rifles and SMGs, none of which they have the skills to use. The only firearms skill they have is "Long Arms", which doesn't exist, and none of them is armed with a gun that could reasonably be inferred to be a long arm.
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May 13, 2016 19:00
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Yeah, I have a hard time talking about DitV without bringing up my own views on Mormonism, which aren't really fit for this thread.
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May 13, 2016 19:04
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In Dogs, are the "demons" expressly a real supernatural force or is it left ambiguous/real world religion-y? Or even, is the default assumption that you are always and obviously dealing with purely human struggles that people try to justify theologically, with that feeding into the conflict?
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May 13, 2016 19:06
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Cythereal posted:I dunno, I suppose I just have a hard time getting into that mentality without a certain knowing wink and smile that it's satire or actively acknowledging that you're playing the bad guy (see Warhammer). I feel like the text gets across the wink and smile a bit better - as I understand it the whole point of the game is for your Dogs to run up against the limitations and injustices of the faith of the King of Life (and thus Mormonism). Maybe that comes from looking at it charitably, though? Mover posted:In Dogs, are the "demons" expressly a real supernatural force or is it left ambiguous/real world religion-y? Up to the GM, but the book discusses both alternatives and I think pushes the ambiguous interpretation. Flavivirus fucked around with this message at 19:15 on May 13, 2016 |
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May 13, 2016 19:12
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Flavivirus posted:Up to the GM, but the book discusses both alternatives and I think pushes the ambiguous interpretation. DitV posted:Anyhow, assign one of the possessed person’s Relationships to a demon. The number of dice in the Relationship indicates how chronically the person has been possessed. Seems pretty explicit to me.
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May 13, 2016 19:25
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hyphz posted:And ugh, Shadowrun 4e characters. Half of the sample characters are allergic to gold for no reason at all - thus giving every munchkin player justification to take irrelevant disadvantages because "it's in the example!". I keep wondering if I should write up Ghost Cartels but just its characters would be enough:
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May 13, 2016 19:29
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 Dogs in the Vineyard: Conflict & Resolution (cont'd) Fallout When the conflict ends, roll all your Fallout Dice. Find the highest two and add them together to get your Fallout Sum. If your Fallout Sum is 1-8, you suffer only short-term consequences. Pick one:
If your Fallout Sum is 9+, you suffer lasting harm. Pick one:
If your Fallout Sum is 12+, you're also injured. Choose a second item from the lasting harm list. Also, roll Body - if you can See your Fallout Sum in three dice or less, that's the extent of the damage. Otherwise, increase your sum to 16 and continue. If your Fallout Sum is 16 or higher (impossible unless you bust out weapons for d8/d10 fallout), you're badly injured. Getting medically treated is a conflict - you roll Body plus your healer's Acuity, the GM rolls fallout dice plus Demonic Influence (more on that later). The stakes are your life. Any Fallout from this conflict go to your healer. If you and your healer win, you'll live. Otherwise, increase your sum to 20 and continue. If your Fallout Sum is 20 or higher, choose one:
If your Fallout Dice include any 1s, you get something good out of the conflict. Choose one:
As an example, going back to the previous sample conflict. Zeke took 7d6 of Fallout Dice during the conflict, so I roll them - 1 1 2 4 5 5 6. Summing the top two, the Fallout Sum is 11. Lasting harm, but no injury. I choose to change the die size of my relationship with your character - Zeke's brother - to d4s. After that falling out, it hardly needs explaining. I rolled 1's, so Zeke also gets to grow. From the list I choose a new Relationship at 1d6 - the shopkeeper's supposed wife. Zeke isn't shooting her, but he hasn't let go of his grudge. Follow-up Conflicts A follow-up conflict is a conflict that follows immedately and logically from another conflict. The stakes have to follow directly from the stakes of the previous conflict, and can only be the exact same stakes if the participants, stage, and method are all different. If I try to talk your character into admitting their sin, and fail, I can't just try again as-is - I already lost that battle. So, instead, I come back at another time, with two friends backing me up, and this time it can't just be a conversation. If you cut your losses before, you get your reserved die for this conflict. If nobody cares about a given NPC's Fallout, the GM doesn't calculate it out as normal. Instead. You roll Fallout and just give the side that beat them the highest two dice for their pool in the follow-up conflict. Their loss becomes your advantage. Multiple Opponents If you have more than two people in a conflict, things get a bit more complicated. Everyone goes in order by Best Roll (the sum of the highest two dice in your pool). When you Raise, you explicitly call out who your Raise affects. For your Raise to affect someone, it has to be an action they can't ignore. When you Raise, everyone who is affected by your Raise has to See it individually. Helping If you and a friend are both in a conflict, you can help them on their turn. Take an action that directly contributes to their action, and give them one of your dice for a Raise. However, the die you lend them is spent, and comes out of your next Raise - on your next turn, you only Raise with one die. You can help someone on a See, not just on a Raise. If you do, your die doesn't count towards the blow's impact - if they See with two of their own dice and one of yours, it's still just a Block or Dodge. Because helping someone takes one of your next Raise dice, and you can't Raise with zero dice, you can only help someone once per round. Using Ceremony Ceremony is weaponry against demons, the possessed, and corrupted souls. You can use ceremony to See and Raise when you're dealing with such things. What kind of ceremony you use affects the fallout of the blow, as per weapons:
Demonic Influence Some rules call for Demonic Influence to be rolled. If a character is critically injured, the opposition in the conflict to heal them rolls all Fallout Dice plus Demonic Influence. When there's no clear opposition in a conflict, the opposition dice are 4d6 + Demonic Influence. When a Sorcerer calls upon demons for aid, roll Demonic Influence as escalation. Demonic Influence is based on the worst manifestation of demonic power the PCs have seen in this town:
Please remember this for future chapters.  What is going on in this picture GMing Conflicts As GM, you help establish the stakes of the conflict - and you should push for small stakes. Players well try to set them big, and you want to wrestle them back down. Two reasons for this: First, this gives you a source of follow-up conflicts, because it's easier to set up outcome scenes if the conflict isn't totally make-or-break. Second: If the stakes are huge, Escalating is always worth it. With more down-to-earth stakes, deciding to Escalate, Give, or Take the Blow is always a meaningful decision. Next: Some examples of what conflicts can look like.
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May 13, 2016 19:42
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hyphz posted:And ugh, Shadowrun 4e characters. Half of the sample characters are allergic to gold for no reason at all - thus giving every munchkin player justification to take irrelevant disadvantages because "it's in the example!". I keep wondering if I should write up Ghost Cartels but just its characters would be enough: The Gold thing might be a reference to the bizarre randomly rolled allergies metahuman PCs had to roll for in SR1e, one combination of which could get you a Street Samurai deathly allergic to their own cyberware. And I'm pretty sure if you followed the book in order you rolled for this after doing the rest of chargen. I have no idea how they survived that long. Still a dumb thing to bring back in SR 4e.
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May 13, 2016 19:57
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gourdcaptain posted:The Gold thing might be a reference to the bizarre randomly rolled allergies metahuman PCs had to roll for in SR1e, one combination of which could get you a Street Samurai deathly allergic to their own cyberware. And I'm pretty sure if you followed the book in order you rolled for this after doing the rest of chargen. I have no idea how they survived that long. 
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May 13, 2016 20:07
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ProfessorProf posted:
Snakes are often associated with the devil and controlling them could be an allusion to sorcerey. I think the man is being intimidated or attacked by another through sorcerous control of the snake. Least that's my take on the picture.
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May 13, 2016 20:14
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Look, that dude's just wearing his styish new Snecktie(TM)! Snecktie(TM) - for when you need to look your best, live snakes!
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May 13, 2016 20:27
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Again I understand what DiTV is doing and think its really neat, just glad that I am not going to have to do it with any of my friends.
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May 13, 2016 21:11
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Maybe you'll prefer my upcoming game, where Mormon missionaries visit a town full of horny teenage monsters...
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May 13, 2016 21:15
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Halloween Jack posted:Maybe you'll prefer my upcoming game, where Mormon missionaries visit a town full of horny teenage monsters... I'd play Monsterhearts: Wild West edition. One of my last games with my old gaming group before I moved was a sci-fi version of Monsterhearts based on the kind of sci-fi where it's a small group of people isolated a long way from Earth and the meat of the story is the interpersonal drama, leavened in some cases by strangeness from alien ruins or whatnot. Worked pretty well, transposing all the skins onto sci-fi reflavorings and renaming the moves to match: The Angel = The Experiment The Chosen = The Explorer The Fae = The Agent The Ghost = The Staff The Ghoul = The Guard The Hollow = The Awakened The Infernal = The Compromised The Mortal = The Civilian The Queen = The Chief The Serpentine = The Visitor The Vampire = The Officer The Werewolf = The Marine The Witch = The Tech
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May 13, 2016 21:24
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I really want to play Danites in the Vineyard but my friends are a bit more squeamish about religious dystopias than I am. I didn't get a lot of enthusiasm for Montsegur 1244 either.
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May 13, 2016 22:09
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I could imagine it if the setting was a bit more based in the past and/or the threat was both external and internal. I am sorry about this but I can't help but think of men of all from Glorantha, you need to retain your immortality and in order to do that you are sent round each community to watch for things that may lead to mortality and death.
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May 13, 2016 22:28
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re: the deadname business in mage, it seems like this could just as easily be "Squirt," "Bug," "Sparky," or "The curse that restrictive birth control laws has saddled me with" in such environments. If anything that seems better, and I don't understand quite why they didn't use the 'real' occult solution of 'there is a True Name, which is often but not always related to the one the person actually uses.' My guess is either they specifically wanted to avoid using "real" occult ideas even in passing or that it was just not thought through. At least it's no mystic hermaphrodite 
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May 13, 2016 22:34
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hyphz posted:There is actually a slight issue in the system here. If you pull your gun, and the other guy says "whoa, there, calm down!" and you decide you actually should calm down and you put your gun away, there's no rules for clawing back the dice you got that you were supposed to be using for shooting. So suddenly, you become better at arguing because you pulled your gun and put it away again. It's a bit pedantic, but it's there. I can buy this as intimidating the other guy by drawing down on him and getting a bonus to your argument for "whoa this guy is willing to shoot me". Of course, you only get that once, so if you draw, reholster, and draw again you've already played the killer card once so your opponent can't be surprised again and you get no further bonus.
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May 13, 2016 23:25
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So has anyone tried running a DitV game set in modern not-Africa? :iamafag: Planescape Monstrous Compendium: Tanar’ri  Like the Baatezu, the Tanar’ri are a group of monsters that share common qualities. They are native to The Abyss and are That Player in monster form. So they probably smell like cat piss. Overall their motives are similar to the Baatezu (kill the other guys, and tempt mortals to act like us), but unlike the Baatezu they have no overall structure. In fact they fight amongst each other as much as they fight their mortal enemies. It’s really just the True Tanar’ri that care about the Blood War. If the Baatezu war machine is a Korean pro-Starcraft player, the Tanar’ri forces are a pubbie Molten Core raid circa 2005. This is offset by the Tanar’ri outnumbering the Baatezu 100 to 1. One Vrock to another upon sighting the next attackers posted:*smack* Nupperibo! I just love Nupperibo! *smack* You can tell that the intro to the Tanar’ri was freshly written for Planescape (the rest of entries are imports-you can tell because there’s no acknowledgement of how quixotic it is giving Chaotic Evil fiends specific roles in Tanar’ri society). For one, it opens with an in-setting blurb (tl;dr-The Abyss is terrible). It also notes that the 5 categories of Tanar’ri, holdovers from 1st Edition, mean little to the Tanar’ri themselves. Like my Baatezu write-up, I’ll be discussing the different types of Tanar’ri from weakest to strongest.
Tanar’ri share several traits. They have a few common spell-like abilities, the powerful being Teleport Without Error. Unlike Baatezu, there’s no restriction on traveling to the Prime Material and Upper Planes (or at least none is mentioned). Like the Baatezu, Tanar’ri can attempt to gate other Tanar’ri once a day, with varying chances of success. Tanar’ri have a number of resistances and immunities, but are vulnerable to cold-iron weapons (Least, Lesser and Guardian take full damage, Greater and True take half damage) and magic weapons (stronger Tanar’ri require stronger bonuses). Tanar’ri magic resistance ranges from 10% to 90%. Like Baatezu, Tanar’ri can communicate telepathically. One thing this section mentions is that any specifically described magic weapon disappears on the Tanar’ri’s death. If it doesn’t disappear, then the fiend got it for somewhere else.  Warning: A few of these entries are for Tanar’ri-mortal halfbreeds, and all that implies. Also: Succubus in general. It’s not nearly as gross as Cthulhutech, but some might find it  still. Manes (975 xp) are the weakest of the Tanar’ri, and are technically Petitioners rather than Planars. They’re only semi-intelligent and are used by stronger Tanar’ri as big dumb hordes. They are immune to mind-affecting spells, and their only notable offensive ability is when they die they explode into a noxious mist. Anyone within 10 feet must make a Poison Save or take 1d6 damage. After 24 hours the Manes will reform. The only way to destroy a Manes permanently is to be eaten by another Tanar’ri. If formed into armies, they are given maces, even though they are too stupid to use them. The fluff section says, “[mortals] who were particularly cruel and evil in life are confined to the Pits of Despair on the 400th layer of the Abyss. Of this place, wizards and sages know only the name, because none have ever seen it.”  Unlike Manes, Dretch (1400 xp) are proper Tanar’ri. They have enough intelligence to know how much they suck. When in the presence of Greater or True Tanar’ri, they never run away. Dretch get a few spell-like abilities, including Stinking Cloud 1/day. Once a day they can Gate 1d4 Dretch at 50% success, and they do this in an attempt to summon a horde on the spot. Like Manes Dretch often serve as food for stronger Tanar’ri. The fluff says that Dretch “have concern for their position,” which makes them more reliable than Hordelings.   Rutterkin (2000 xp) fight using a variety of strange weapons, which have stats provided in the monster entry. They can attack unarmed, but prefer not to as this causes them pain. Their spell-like abilities include Fly. Rutterkin are outcasts, never impressed into Blood War armies. They patrol the layers of the Abyss attacking any non-Tanar’ri. When they summon others, it raises the alarm on the layer. “The nalfeshnee might create the rutterkin directly from the life forces of evil but incompetent beings who come before them for judgment.” The fluff part also suggests that Rutterkin were originally planes-traveling humans that were enslaved by the Tanar’ri, “who had never encountered beings other than themselves”. You know, despite being at war with the Baatezu since time immemorial.  Cambion are the male Tanar’ri-human offspring, and come in two variety depending on the father. Lesser and Greater Tanar’ri father a Major Cambion (4000 xp) while True Tanar’ri father a Baron/Marquis Cambion (6000 xp). In either case the mother dies in childbirth. Cambion get a full set of attributes like player characters. If a Cambion’s charisma is 18 or above, they can use Charm Person at will (or more accurately, produce a reaction identical to Charm Person). Cambions are never surprised, are usually equipped with magic armor and weapons, and have Thief abilities that can be used without armor penalty,and if their intelligence is 16 or above, they can cast spells as a wizard of equal level to their HD (so 4th or 6th level). Cambion serve as assassins in the Blood War, but 1-in-10 Cambion are Planescape-Drizzt because their mother was good-aligned.  By contrast, Alu-Fiends (4000-6000 xp) are the offspring of a Succubus and human, and are always female. Alu-Fiends can avoid being surprised 75% of the time. Like Cambions they are usually equipped with magical weapons. They can restore their hit points on “a normal melee hit” which does 1d8 damage and restores half rounded up. It’s not clear if the damage replaces or is in addition to weapon damage. Their spell-like abilities include Dimension Door 1/day and Suggestion. 10% of Alu-Fiends have 18 intelligence and can cast magic as a wizard of up to 12th level. Unlike Cambions, other Tanar’ri see Alu-Fiends as lowly and without purpose because of their dual nature. In turn, Alu-Fiends are hateful even by Tanar’ri standards. 20% of Alu-Fiends are CN or N because they had a non-evil dad.  Bar-Lgura (8000 xp) inhabit the jungle layers of The Abyss. They use ambush tactics, and can either camouflage themselves (Hide In Shadows 95%) or as one of their spell-like abilities cast Invisibility twice a day (some Tanar’ri entries, including Bar-Lgura, have the line ‘uses these as an xx spell user. This is not consistently applied). When they attack, they can spring 40 feet and “attack savagely” in the same round, which I assume is exceptional? Another notable spell-like power Bar-Lgura get is Dispel Magic. Bar-Lgura live in tribes, “the only government in the Abyss.” They try to avoid participating in the Blood War or the rest of The Abyss. In fact, the entry says they’re “the closest thing to animals among the tanar’ri.” When they do get shanghaied into Blood War armies, they serve as scouts.  So, Succubus (11000 xp). To 2nd Edition’s credit, this entry does mention that Incubus are also present, but are far less common. The reason is unknown, but “Sages suggest that mortal men are far more susceptible to the temptations of beauty than are women.” Well, okay, at least that’s given as an in-setting theory. They usually polymorph into human or demihuman form, but “they do not often deal with demihumans, because humans’ fiery nature makes them easier prey.” Their main ability is Energy Drain. I’ll just quote the book on this: Combat posted:The kiss of a succubi drains energy from its victim, causing the loss of one level of life energy. The succubus lures a mortal man into activities of passion and then drains energy from him. Even after a drain, the heat of the moment is so strong that most men do not notice (Wisdom check at -4 penalty to notice each drain). If he fails the check, he continues, heedless of danger.   Another gargoyle-devil (um, -demon), another portrait. Nabassu come in two varieties. Fledging (8000-11000 xp) and Mature (16000 xp). Nabassu spawn in the Abyss, but they grow and gain power on other plains by killing humans. The entry gives the mechanics for how Fledgling Nabassu mature, because that is something a DM will keep track of. Fledglings don’t get the standard Tanar’ri spell-like abilities, but they get a death gaze 1/day. The target has to make a Spell Save or turn into a ghast (or ghoul if demihuman) over 1d10 days. Killing the Fledgling or Remove Curse will reverse the process if it hasn’t reached maturity. Fledglings also get thief abilities, including 2x backstab. At maturity, a Nabassu loses the Fledgling abilities, but gains the standard Tanar’ri Suite as well as some new abilities, including Energy Drain (by touch). While in The Abyss, Mature Nabassu can automatically summon 2-5 ghasts once per day. Any living creature coming within 10 feet must make a Paralyzation Save or be paralyzed for 1d10 rounds (once per encounter). Both Fledglings and Mature Nabassu have 19 Strength. Nabassu have no role in the Blood War. Once they return from the Prime Material, they live in a fortress for all eternity.  Chasme (14000 xp) search for Tanar’ri trying to evade participating in the Blood War. Wounds from their claw attacks can victims to bleed profusely (2 hp/round until magically healed). Chasme also get a weirdly worded ability that can put living creatures to sleep (Spell Save to avoid). Chasme’s ability to blood drain is tucked into the description. Chasme have an always-active Detect Invisibility and Detect Good, and can also cast Ray of Enfeeblement once a round. Chasme can somehow tell if a Tanar’ri has gone AWOL, and punish them with murder. Chasme reproduce from eggs, and I’m disappointed that they aren’t laid in deserters or something. Oh, and Chasme Wings can be used to make Potions of Flying.   Babau (17000 xp) recruit Lesser and Least Tanar’ri for the Blood War. Which is totally different from what Chasme do. Babau get a Ray of Enfeeblement gaze attack. They use weapons (20% chance of being magical) and have 19 Strength. Their skin is covered in a corrosive oil that halves Slashing and Piercing damage and has a chance of ruining normal weapons or reducing the bonus of a magical weapon. Babau get Thief abilities (including backstab x4), and some useful spell like abilities. In addition to the chance to summon weaker Tanar’ri, there’s a 20% chance a True Tanar’ri will come to their aid when attacked.  Wastrilith (19000 xp) I strongly suspect weren’t originally Tanar’ri before this book, because the description says they inhabit the watery parts of the Lower Planes, and “rarely” other planes. I put that in quotes because the rules provided are focused on encountering one in a normal setting. They use minions to fight, which include sharks, sahuagin, water elementals, and ixitachitl. Wastriliths themselves can use a breath weapon attack 3 times a day, and when facing water elementals, have a 50% chance of wresting control of them from the summoner. Most of the fluff talks about what Wastriliths do on the Prime Material, and there’s just one line that says that many live on the 88th layer of the Abyss.  Hezrou (14000 xp) oversee the formation of armies on the Abyss. Hezrou can never be surprised, have 120 feet infravision, and “have double human normal auditory and olfactory senses.” If a Hezrou hits an enemy with both claws, it bear hugs them and does 2d4 damage a round and their bite attack (4d4) automatically hit. The victim must make a Strength check at half their score to escape. Anyone within 10 feet of the Hezrou must make a Paralyzation Save or be overcome with nausea (no duration given). Their spell-like abilities include Unholy Word and Wall of Fire. In addition, “at certain times in a century” Hezrou can Plane Shift and go make pact with mortals. Hezrou enforce the directives of the Nalfeshnee and other True Tanar’ri, being too dumb to come up with their own ideas.  Vrock (19000 xp) are the elite troops of the Tanar’ri. They can never be surprised, always attack first and have 19 strength. They have 5 attacks, and can direct them at different opponents. Once every three rounds, Vrock can shoot out “stringing ejection of spores” that automatically hit every opponent within 5 feet. This causes 1d8 damage plus 1d2 damage per round for the next ten rounds. Once per battle, Vrock can emit a screech that stuns everyone within 30 feet (constitution check to avoid). Aside from individual spell-like abilities, a group of 5 Vrock can get together to perform the Dance of Ruin. It takes 3 rounds, and on completion does 2d20 damage to anyone within 100 feet, including the Vrock (Two saves are given-Death to avoid, Spell to take half damage). There’s very little fluff, just that they fight in groups of 8 and eat their enemies after battle.  Awwww, who’s a good orgy demon? Yesss you are! Glabrezu (12000 xp) don’t participate in the Blood War, but instead spread the influence of The Abyss on the Prime Material by tempting mortals with power. That or face licks. If forced into combat, Glabrezu have five attacks, and on successful attacks, they can pick up an opponent “up to 150 pounds”. Glabrezu have a bunch of spell-like abilities including an always-active Detect Magic and True Seeing, Reverse Gravity and Power Word Stun 7 times a day, but the main Glabrezu strength is narrative. Glabrezu have vast hordes of gold and magic items in their lairs in The Abyss, and use these to tempt mortals into summoning them. Glabrezu are content to play the long game when corrupting mortals. They don’t get along well with Mariliths.  Nalfeshnee (17000 xp) are from the 400th layer, the Mountain of Woe, and judge the souls that pass into the Abyss. They can never be surprised, and their big gimmick is a full round attack that shoots out rainbows that can a set amount of damage and cause victims to wander aimlessly for 1d10 rounds (-2 Spell Save) while they see their greatest fear. They can use this ability 3 times a day. They have a bunch of spell like abilities, many of which are always active (such as Detect Invisibility, ESP and Protection from Good). Nalfeshnee have the highest intelligence of any Tanar’ri (Godlike, or 21+) and feel like they are the bestest Tanar’ri and take every opportunity to show up other True Tanar’ri like Balors. Also: Ecology posted:Nalfeshnee feed on hatred and despair, emotions they can draw out of any being they see. They devour these feelings from the life forces they judge, leaving empty husks of useless thoughts. These husks then transform into other forms tanar’ri in ceremonies involving unimaginable torture.  Marilith (23000 xp) are supposed to be the tacticians for the Tanar’ri. I’m picturing this is how their strategies work in practice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWh-2db3ml0. Despite being the brains of the war effort, Mariliths love to fight. They can attack up to seven times (six weapons and a tail constrict). Most if not all of a Marilith’s weapons will have a magic bonus of some sort. On top of damage (4d6) anyone caught in the tail constrict must make a constitution check to avoid falling unconscious. Finally a Marilith gets several spell like abilities including Cloudkill and Cause Serious Wounds. The fluff section is self-aware to admit that trying to strategize for Tanar’ri is pretty much impossible. In spite of this, Mariliths believe they are the real leaders of the Tanar’ri. They especially hate Glabrezu, possibly because their role makes sense as opposed to theirs.  Balor (26000 xp) are the reason the Tanar’ri involvement in the Blood War extends beyond putting up a wall at the edge of the Abyss with a sign that says “gently caress off Baatezu!” They’re basically the Balrog from Fellowship of the Ring, or at least the movie version (if you want to argue about whether the Balrog is just a guy with a big shadow, there’s a thread for that in TBB). They have a Vorpal Sword and a many-tailed whip. A Balor can use the whip to drag enemies into its body flames. Alternatively, a Balor can just punch dudes, which causes enemies to flee in terror if they fail a -6 Spell Save Despite being the most powerful Tanar’ri, a Balor doesn’t get a strength score (so no damage bonus). Balor can use any Symbol spell once a round and can automatically gate other Tanar’ri once an hour. If killed in the Abyss, Balor explode and do 50 damage to everyone within 100 feet (Spell Save for half damage). Like Glabrezu, Balor make pacts with mortals on the Prime Material, performing services in exchange for power. “At least twenty-four Balors are known to exist.”  Molyneux is a game developer from the early nineties responsible for classic games like Populous and Dungeon Keeper but is now known for making overblown promises about-wait, sorry, let me start over. Molydeus (21000 xp) are the only Guardian Tanar’ri. They “enforce the war effort as a sort of political officer.” Because sure, that’s something the plane of Chaotic Evil needs, another bloody policeman. Molydeus uses a +5 great axe that does 2d10 base damage. This axe has the abilities of a Vorpal and Dancing weapon. Its snakehead injects a poison that turns victims into a Manes in 1d6 rounds (Poison Save, Neutralize Poison or Remove Curse can reverse if transformation isn’t complete). Molydeus also get a lot of spell like abilities, including Evard’s Black Tentacles, Improved Invisibility, Polymorph Other, always active True Seeing and Vampiric Touch. Cold-iron weapons are the only type that can damage Molydei (yes that’s the plural). In theory, you can steal a Molydeus’ axe, but this requires leaving the fiend you robbed alive (remember, weapons disappear when owner dies). A Molydeus will not rest until it recovers its axe and horribly kills the thief. A Molydeus are loyal only to the cause of the Blood War, and will  any True Tanar’ri that strays from this dedication. On the other hand, Molydeus don’t care about non-True Tanar’ri, since they assume they’re just disloyal by nature.Next Time: Remind me why we hired these guys SirPhoebos fucked around with this message at 21:52 on May 14, 2016 |
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May 14, 2016 00:30
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Man, the Arcanum are so much more interesting than the oMage Spheres. I don't think oMage Prime was useful for much of anything other than messing with other spells or Quintessence but new Prime has a bunch of cool effects you can use without involving any other Arcanum. Just to pick the most dramatic example.
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May 14, 2016 01:44
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Sometime I'd like to try working the DitV conflict system into Nobilis. (I've been trying to figure out a fix for the way that conflict, although fun, nearly always stops short of anybody being Defeated because combatants will just fold before it ever gets there, probably because "lose narrative control of your character" is worse than death for a lot of people.)
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May 14, 2016 01:58
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So right now i kinda have to wonder if like a 90s game with modern design is worth making. The world is not as you see dark urban fantasy? drat straight. All the "poo poo getting done" is centered on these super conspiracies and the super beings that run them? Ok, the player's are playing at that level. Morality and Willpower and the beggings of meta mechanics? Ok why separate them, Karma is meaningful. doing awful poo poo burns your meta currency. Being a good person is what separates you from the other big players. Everyone has half a dozen actions to compete? Ok, every powered charecter has half a dozen actions per round. There's a grand secret a truth behind the truth? Give three examples in the book, let the GM pick one for his campaign and character's. Etc. Etc.
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May 14, 2016 03:48
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WhitemageofDOOM posted:So right now i kinda have to wonder if like a 90s game with modern design is worth making.
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May 14, 2016 03:51
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Nessus posted:I believe what you are looking for is http://somanykatanas.com/ Yes and no, definitely a lot of what I mean but that's still taking the piss. I was thinking of trying to take the game at least somewhat seriously. (As much as brooding immortals with katanas, trenchcoats and magical powers can be taken seriously.)
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May 14, 2016 04:00
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Covok posted:Snakes are often associated with the devil and controlling them could be an allusion to sorcerey. I think the man is being intimidated or attacked by another through sorcerous control of the snake. Least that's my take on the picture. Snake handling is a popular test of faith in a lot of fictional depictions of Pentecostal churches, looking at things from the opposite angle. Basically, the idea is that if you have enough faith, you can get bit by vipers and shrug it off. Comes up as a plot point in Justified season 4. So, uh... that just makes things more confusing, I suppose.
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May 14, 2016 04:39
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Yeah but that's more of a Pentacostal/Southern Baptist thing. It also tends to go hand in hand with glossolalia. There's a lot of different beliefs in the various sects of Christianity so I could imagine that falling under a False Worship from Back East that the Dogs would have to put an end to in a neighboring town. Trying to make a sincere peak 90s RPG feels like it would be an exercise in headache and annoyance.
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May 14, 2016 04:45
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Snake handling and glossolalia and in general ecstatic Charismatic type worship sounds like a great "false teachings" to rail against as one of God's Watchdogs and a means by which demons can pretend to be angels, so to speak.
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May 14, 2016 05:38
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Was DitV made for Mormons, former Mormons, the Mormon-adjacent, or some other group I can't quite conceive of? As a former youth group kid I can see the interest in a game that asks hard questions about faith and conviction, but it definitely doesn't seem like something that anybody outside of that fairly narrow niche would find appealing. The idea of people getting squicked out (for good reason) about playing a game where the entire group consists of people who fundamentally believe that god is on the side of their guns reminded me of a failed RPG attempt inspired by this thread: a Day After Ragnarok game focused around the Chinese resistance to Japanese occupation in World War II. To me it sounded like a super cool idea full of intrigue and mystery, but to folks who had no idea what I was talking about it was just a history lesson they didn't want to take.
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May 14, 2016 05:39
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It was actually made by the same bloke who did Apoc world, and he is apparently no fan of the Mormons. I believe it may actually be a commentary on playing misguided people trying to do their best and not being especially good about it. Also, why are succubi so disliked in that review? Seduction seems like a fairly bog standard thing for demons to do and sex is kind of standard?
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May 14, 2016 07:01
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Josef bugman posted:It was actually made by the same bloke who did Apoc world, and he is apparently no fan of the Mormons. I believe it may actually be a commentary on playing misguided people trying to do their best and not being especially good about it. Their implementation doesn't do much to make the game feel like it's targeted at all humans rather than lonely nerdy straight dudes. They're walking sex stereotypes in lots of ways, including being physically inept for their theoretical level but capable of destroying you with their feminine wiles. As OP noted, it helps that Incubi are noted to exist and implied to be identical, but the game basically treats that as a realism note and clearly doesn't expect you to play with them. (Which to be fair might be good, I'm not sure we want the Alu-Fiend/Cambion sexual dimorphism repeated.) Mechanically they're no fun either. Pretty much everything they do that's remotely threatening removes character agency. No one's going to enjoy fighting one, even if they don't get the 40% Balor chance and cause a TPK. Finally, using sex demons in a game that's not explicitly (hurr) about sex demons rarely ends well. How does this thing actually function in play? The stand up fight sucks, as noted, and the fluff doesn't encourage that anyway. So what happens? The best case next scenario is they teach your players to avoid all romance because the lady you're into might just want your delicious character levels. Worst case you have impromptu erotic role-play going on in your dungeon crawler. None of that's good. Their use in published adventures IIRC pretty much matches this pattern. I also felt like the OP overstated how bad they were compared to lots of nerd stuff, they probably are pretty standard, but they're still problematic.
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May 14, 2016 07:32
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My standard line on succubi and the like in games is that they're more useful as political manipulator type threats than outright seducers, and I usually note if the players go hunting that they are shapeshifters - incubi as such don't exist because succubi can take male or female form as they prefer or as they feel appropriate to their task at hand. Then again, in one game I also introduced houri, a celestial counterpart who champion true love and affection and often seek out mortals who have been badly emotionally wounded to teach them to open up and learn to love again.
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May 14, 2016 14:00
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Zereth posted:Man, the Arcanum are so much more interesting than the oMage Spheres. I don't think oMage Prime was useful for much of anything other than messing with other spells or Quintessence but new Prime has a bunch of cool effects you can use without involving any other Arcanum. Yeah, a lot of the Arcana got a major face lift in 2nd edition, Prime used to be much, much less sexy even in 1e. Speaking of sexy - the historic succubi and incubi were typically the same creatures - shapeshifting demons that would approach you in the night, often in the form of your spouse if you had one, for sex. They were often blamed for wet dreams...or mysterious pregnancies, because a favorite trick was reputedly taking on female form, collecting a man's sperm, then taking on male form and depositing it elsewhere. Their job was to tempt people to sin that never got repented of because they thought it was dreams, or...well, to cause mischief because demons.
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May 14, 2016 15:22
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Ultiville posted:Their implementation doesn't do much to make the game feel like it's targeted at all humans rather than lonely nerdy straight dudes. They're walking sex stereotypes in lots of ways, including being physically inept for their theoretical level but capable of destroying you with their feminine wiles. As OP noted, it helps that Incubi are noted to exist and implied to be identical, but the game basically treats that as a realism note and clearly doesn't expect you to play with them. (Which to be fair might be good, I'm not sure we want the Alu-Fiend/Cambion sexual dimorphism repeated.) I wanted to err on the side of caution-there were a couple of reviews that had similar warnings and sometimes my thought was "I don't see what the big deal is".
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May 14, 2016 16:19
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Mage the Awakening: 2nd Edition Spirit is the Arcanum of Essence, spirits, Shadow and the Gauntlet. This may seem narrow, until you realize: spirits can do anything. A spirit can be a spirit of basically anything. Everything can potentially have a spirit except for human beings. The flow of Essence that empowers spirits and the Gauntlet that holds them out of the world are yours to control as well. The Gauntlet is a sort of membrane between worlds, a medium through which you cross to move from material to Shadow or vice versa. Its strength varies on a variety of factors, not all of which are known or even knowable. The presence of humans usually strengthens it, likely due to the tumult of human emotion and activity, which simultaneously hardens the Gauntlet and births new spirits and the Essence they use as food. Any spell targeting something on the other side of the Gauntlet or targeting the Gauntlet itself is Withstood by the local Gauntlet Strength, or the lower if the target and your area have different strengths. If you target something you can see in real time across the Gauntlet, it counts as remote viewing.  Spirit 1 spells include: Coaxing the Spirits, which forces a spirit or its physical representation to take a single instant action in accordance with its nature. Note that this works even on slumbering motes of spiritual energy lacking will or sapience - and everything except humans has a spirit. You can make a frightened dog bite or flee, a car start, a cliff cause an avalanche, so long as it's in the nature of the thing. The spell is Withstood by the Rank of the spirit or the Composure of its living representation, whichever is higher. Exorcist's Eye allows you to perceive and speak the language of any spirits in the physical world, either roaming in Twilight, slumbering in an object or discorporate, or possessing a living being. You can also sense any spirit-related Manifestation conditions in the area, and you can see the conduit of any spirit with the Reaching manifestation, but cannot communicate across the Gauntlet. For 1 Reach, you may shift your perceptions to view the world on the opposite side of the Gauntlet from you, Withstood by the local Gauntlet strength. With Death 1 or Mind 1, these benefits extend to ghosts and Goetia, respectively. Gremlins causes spirits of objects to hinder. When someone fails a roll using the spell's target as equipment, it is a dramatic failure, for (Potency) failures in the duration. If the user is a PC, they gain a Beat as normal. For 1 Reach, as long as you can perceive the object, you choose which failures become dramatic. Invoke Bane makes a spirit avoid its Bane even more than it normally would, forcing it to spend a Willpower to even come near the Bane, with near defined by the Area factor, and cannot touch it at all. If the spirit is already in the area of its bane and doesn't spend Willpower, it must flee immediately. Spirits over rank 5 are immune. Know Spirit reveals (Potency) facts about a target spirit from among these:
Spirit 2 spells include: Cap the Well, which wards an Essence source, making it harder to feed on but harder to sense. Any attempt to feed on the Essence or otherwise siphon it causes a Clash of Wills. Channel Essence lets you draw Essence into your Pattern from a Resonant condition or channel it to a spirit or suitable container. You may transfer (Potency) Essence, but no more than your Mana limit per turn. Essence stored in your Pattern stays even after the spell ends, but it takes up space in your Mana pool as if it were Mana. With Death 2 or Mind 2, you can channel to a ghost or Goetia respectively. For 1 Reach, you may siphon Essence directly form a spirit, which Withstands via Rank. Command Spirit allows you to command a spirit to take up to (Potency) actions, though the compulsions lasts only for the duration. Commands that go against its self0interest, such as abandoning a host or Fetter, provoke a Clash of Wills. Spirits over rank 5 are immune. Ephemeral Shield protects against the Numina, Influences and Manifestations of spirits, forcing a Clash of Wills for them to harm the target. For 1 Reach, Spirit spells and the magical powers of werewolves are also blocked. For 1 Reach, the physical attacks of spirits are also blocked. With Death 2 or Mind 2, the shield also affects ghosts or Goetia, respectively. Gossamer Touch renders the target's flesh solid to spirits in Twilight. With Mind 2 or Death 2, this also applies to Goetia or ghosts respectively. For 1 Reach, anything the target carries is also solid to spirits. For 1 Reach, the target's unarmed attacks count as a weapon against spirits with (Potency) as the damage modifier. Opener of the Way lets you shift the Resonant condition on the target to the Open condition or vice versa. Shadow Walk makes the target invisible to spirits and Spirit magic. Any supernatural effect that would detect them causes Clash of Wills. Slumber slows a hibernating spirit's Essence gain. Instead of 1 Essence per day, it gains only one Essence per (Potency) days for the duration. Spirit 3 spells include: Bolster Spirit heals (2*Potency)B damage to a spirit. For 1 Reach, you may instead spend potency one for one to raise one of the spirit's Attributes for the duration, though its Rank-based maximums apply. For 2 Reach and 1 Mana, you can increase the spirit's Rnak by 1, giving it higher attribute caps, more Essence pool and one free Numen for the duration. Erode Resonance removes the Open or Resonant condition from its target. This is Lasting. For 1 Reach, any future attempt to reestablish the same Resonant condition while the duration is in effect is done at -(Potency). Howl From Beyond floods the target with spiritual Essence, draining their soul's power. This deals (Potency)B, and can target physical beings or spirits in Twilight. For 1 Reach, the target also gains the Open condition. For 1 Reach, you can target across the Gauntlet, Withstood by Gauntlet strength. Place of Power raises or lowers the local Gauntlet strength by (Potency) in its area. For 1 Reach, you can alter the Gauntlet independently from either side - it may be easier to cross from material to spirit, say, then the other way around. Reaching allows oyu to physically and magically interact with anything on the other side of the Gauntlet from you. For 1 Reach, you open an Iris between Shadow and the physical, through which anyone or anything may pass, with the Scale factor determining its size. With another Reach, you may assign a Key to the Iris to restrict access. Rouse Spirit prematurely awakens a hibernating spirit, requiring Potency equal to the difference between its current Essence and total Corpus. The spirit awakens immediately, with only its rightmost Corpus box cleared. For each Reach applied, an additional box is cleared. Spirit Summons calls the nearest spirit in sensory range, a spirit you know personally or the nearest spirit that matches the type of Resonance you specify. This does not work on spirits over Rank 5. For 1 Reach, you also create the Open condition on the area even if it doesn't match the spirit's Resonance. For 1 Reach, you can give the spirit a single, one-word command for the duration. For 1 Reach you can summon spirits from across the gauntlet, though if there is no Iris open nearby the spell is Withstood by the greater of Rank or local Gauntlet strength. Spirits can only cross the Gauntlet if they'd normally be able to. For 2 Reach you can give the spirit a complex task for the duration. Spirit 4 spells include: Banishment strips (Potency) Manifestation conditions from a spirit or its host. This is Lasting, but the spirit can try to reestablish them. This does not work on spirits over rank 5. With Mind 2, this also works on Goetia. For 1 Reach, the target can't recreate the destroyed conditions until the duration ends. Bind Spirit grants the target up to (Potency) Manifestation conditions, and must create any prerequisite conditions for the one you want. The target immediately enters the Manifestation of your choice and may not leave it until the spell ends. This has no effect on spirits over Rank 5. With Mind 2, this also works on Goetia. Craft Fetish binds a hibernating spirt into a Fetish, an object that works like an Imbued Item, but it is fueled by Essence instead of Mana and instead of a spell it holds one of the bound spirit's Influences or, possible, some Numina. This requires one Potency per dot of Influence the object will have, plus one Potency per Numen. A fetish need not have all of its spirit's abilities, however. Activating the fetish is an instant action using the spirit's dicepool. The fetish uses the spirit's Essence pool and can recharge Essence in a resonant location like a hibernating spirit or by receiving Essence from another spirit, Channel Essence or similar powers. The user can pay Essence from the fetish's pool to use its powers, but if the bound spirit ever gains Essence equal to its Corpus, the spell ends. You may also make a simpler fetish that has no spirit but can hold Essence, holding (10+Potency) Essence maximum. Triggering the bound spirit's Ban or Bane immediately destroys a magically created fetish. Familiar creates a Familiar bond between a mage and a spirit, both of which must be targets of the spell. The spirit cannot be over Rank 2. The mage gains the Familiar merit and the spirit gains the Familiar Manifestation condition for the duration. Both targets must be willing, and they can end the bond whenever they want. You may instead cast this with Death 4 or Mind 4 to bind a ghost or a Goetia respectively. Shadow Scream channels raw Essence and half-born spirits in to the target, which is torn apart, taking (Potency)L. This can target physical beings or spirits in Twilight. For 1 Reach and 1 Mana, it deals Agg damage. For 1 Reach, you can split Potency between damage and destroying Essence, 1 for 1. For 1 Reach, the target also gains the Open condition. For 1 Reach, the spell can target across the Gauntlet. Shape Spirit lets you perform (Potency) of the following effects on a target spirit:
Twilit Body causes the target and any of their equipment to become Spirit-attuned ephemera in Twilight. For 1 Reach, the target's form is so refined that they become immaterial even in realms without Twilight. World Walker lets you shift the target across the Gauntlet, either to or from Shadow, without a portal. For 1 Reach, you may grant a conjured spirit or ephemeral object the Materialized Condition until the duration ends. Spirit 5 spells include: Annihilate Spirit utterly destroys a spirit. The target can spend 1 Essence to roll Power+Finesse as a Clash of Wills in a last ditch attempt to not die. If it fails, it's gone. Boom. It does not retreat to hibernation, it's loving gone. Without archmastery, this cannot affect spirits over rank 5. Birth Spirit creates a Rank 1 spirit from raw Essence. It is not under your control, but most do feel some respect or gratitude toward their maker. For 1 Reach and 1 Mana, the spirit is Rank 2. Create Locus lets you create a Locus at a location with the Resonant condition. (A Locus is an area in which the Shadow is particularly close. Spirits need not use the Reaching manifestaiton to cross the Gauntlet there, attempts to cross are at +2, and spirits that match its Resonant condition heal at twice normal speed.) For 1 Reach, the Locus also generates (Potency) Essence per day. Essence Fountain generates (Potency) Essence within the target's Pattern, with a Resonance of your choice, as long as you've encountered that Resonance before. For 1 Reach you may give the Essence as many Resonances as you want. Spirit Manse carves an extradimensional space into the Shadow, taking any form you like but colored by your Path or Nimbus. For the duration, you gain (Potency) dots of Safe Place. For 1 Reach, you may create an Iris between this Manse and the physical world, allowing anyone to enter the Shadow directly into your Manse. You may make a Key to the door if you want. If you make an Iris, the spell is Withstood by Gauntlet strength. Next time: Time.
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May 14, 2016 18:08
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man they beefed up Spirit this edition. Definitely in favour of that - always thought it took far too long to you to be able to cause effects in the physical world with it.
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May 14, 2016 18:37
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Well, the main power of spirit is still and has always been collecting pokemon, but yeah, now it also does other stuff.
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May 14, 2016 18:38
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