|
what about the 6th, willingness to embrace the secret™?
|
#
?
May 13, 2016 23:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 16, 2024 14:22 |
|
|
straight up brolic posted:what about the 6th, willingness to embrace the secret™? The pineal gland
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2016 23:42
|
|
|
Dejan Bimble posted:The pineal gland
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2016 23:48
|
|
|
Crazy Ted posted:Huh? There's still plenty to talk about when it comes to who goes where, but it's just a lot harder to look at a prospective draft class and say "this group of draftees sucks" when some of them aren't even done growing yet. You can talk about it in terms of whether or not there's a lack of players at the top who project out to be superstars, but it's really just guesswork to try to figure out how anyone past the top five or six will work out because players are drafted so much younger now. It seems pretty hard to have any sort of discussion about who should go where and why if you've decided it's impossible to make any sort of judgement about the quality of the players because they're young. I don't know why it'd be too early to start projecting them in aggregate but not as individuals MourningView fucked around with this message at 23:52 on May 13, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 13, 2016 23:49
|
|
|
best case scenario: brandon ingram goes to the celtics worst case scenario: brandon ingram goes to the sixers nothing i've seen from him suggests he can be a primary scoring option at the NBA level, but he could easily come in and be a very good 3 and a little bit of D guy immediately. Think Celtics use picks to try and trade up from 3 to 2 if it goes chalk.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 00:01
|
|
|
Crazy Ted posted:Huh? There's still plenty to talk about when it comes to who goes where, but it's just a lot harder to look at a prospective draft class and say "this group of draftees sucks" when some of them aren't even done growing yet. You can talk about it in terms of whether or not there's a lack of players at the top who project out to be superstars, but it's really just guesswork to try to figure out how anyone past the top five or six will work out because players are drafted so much younger now.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 00:53
|
|
|
straight up brolic posted:best case scenario: brandon ingram goes to the celtics Best case would be Timberwolves. He can shoot and get sweet lobs from Ricky but only be expected to be the 3rd scorer.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 01:32
|
|
|
best case is the bulls bullshitting their way to the #1 pick again and picking the guy with the worst knees
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 01:55
|
|
|
If you don't want to call this a bad draft, instead maybe thinking of it as a draft where the talent doesn't necessarily fit the needs most of the lottery teams have will be easier to wrap a head around. Someone from the Kris Dunn/Buddy Hield/Jamal Murray pile (maybe all of them) are going to be a good NBA player, but most teams already have a 6'4" guy who's not really a PG.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 02:36
|
|
|
Lockback posted:Best case would be Timberwolves. He can shoot and get sweet lobs from Ricky but only be expected to be the 3rd scorer. If we goes to the Wolves does that move Wiggins to the 2 and drop LaVine to the bench? Or can Ingram play the 4?
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 11:40
|
|
|
tanglewood1420 posted:If we goes to the Wolves does that move Wiggins to the 2 and drop LaVine to the bench? Or can Ingram play the 4? Wiggins played better at the 2, he splits hit time there now. He is much better defended by a smaller defender and he's plenty quick to guard 2s. This would move LaVine to the bench but give lots of small-ball lineups. A stud 4 would be a better fit, but the Wolves are still in BPA as long as the guy can shoot.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 12:33
|
|
|
Rick posted:If you don't want to call this a bad draft, instead maybe thinking of it as a draft where the talent doesn't necessarily fit the needs most of the lottery teams have will be easier to wrap a head around. Someone from the Kris Dunn/Buddy Hield/Jamal Murray pile (maybe all of them) are going to be a good NBA player, but most teams already have a 6'4" guy who's not really a PG. The Kings have a glaring hole at SG and possibly a need at PG. While those 3 guys might not be future all-stars, a good NBA player in our backcourt would really help us out. If we get Hield or Murray, I think the org and fanbase would be thrilled. All we need to Skal to continue to rocket up the charts with his amazing new 3pt stroke
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 14:50
|
|
|
Depending on who you ask it's not new, Cal just wouldn't let him use it. Which does seem plausible given how he used his other big guys. Skal isn't even close to their level as a player, but Towns, Randle, and Davis all had a rep for being versatile guys who could face up or step out for a jumper going into college (reps they have vindicated to varying degrees in the NBA) but were mostly confined to playing around the basket in college
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 16:23
|
|
|
lol i just realized the bulls are going to draft niang
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 16:38
|
|
|
MourningView posted:Depending on who you ask it's not new, Cal just wouldn't let him use it. Which does seem plausible given how he used his other big guys. That was the line with WCS, and while I'm happy with him I would describe that shot is as gold as he claimed
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 16:50
|
|
|
When Chad Ford puts together his mock drafts, does he usually have sources for which teams are likely to make which picks, or is he doing the whole guessing thing himself? I ask because it seems like he's had Marquese Chriss to the Raptors for months now.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2016 19:47
|
|
|
Hand Knit posted:When Chad Ford puts together his mock drafts, does he usually have sources for which teams are likely to make which picks, or is he doing the whole guessing thing himself? I ask because it seems like he's had Marquese Chriss to the Raptors for months now. He does have sources, but they're an aggregate. Other gm's think they're going to do x and x makes sense, so they hit Chriss in the mock. Other picks are purely informed guesswork. And if they're wrong, Chad will change them in a couple years.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2016 19:52
|
|
|
Dejan Bimble posted:He does have sources, but they're an aggregate. Other gm's think they're going to do x and x makes sense, so they hit Chriss in the mock. Other picks are purely informed guesswork. And if they're wrong, Chad will change them in a couple years. Alright, that's good, because I've decided that I really want the Raptors to draft Jaylen Brown since in the mush of people available at that area he at least seems cool.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2016 19:59
|
|
|
I can't decide if Marquese sounds more like the title of a guillotined French noblewoman or an unremarked regional soft-ripened cheese
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2016 21:40
|
|
|
WhyteRyce posted:The Kings have a glaring hole at SG and possibly a need at PG. While those 3 guys might not be future all-stars, a good NBA player in our backcourt would really help us out. If we get Hield or Murray, I think the org and fanbase would be thrilled. All we need to Skal to continue to rocket up the charts with his amazing new 3pt stroke It would be interesting to see a Rondo/Murray backcourt although I'm not sure they are complimentary pieces. I don't think it should happen and I'm not predicting it to happen, but if Skal ends up going top 5 I'm not gonna be shocked.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2016 22:18
|
|
|
Rick posted:It would be interesting to see a Rondo/Murray backcourt although I'm not sure they are complimentary pieces. Sixers gonna draft him at 4. All the bigs. Srsly though, if i had #28-60 id take a shot and send him down to d league. He may be 3 yrs away from being 3 yrs away. I need a list of bigs who have been legit @ under 20 yrs old. AD, KAT, Shaq, who else? ButtWolf fucked around with this message at 00:29 on May 16, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 00:26
|
|
|
ButtWolf posted:Sixers gonna draft him at 4. All the bigs. Otherwise you'd be talking about the usual: Wilt, Kareem, Russell, and so on.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 01:11
|
|
|
Steven Adams and Andre Drummond taught me that forget conventional wisdom just take a chance on the raw big guy who turns into a good player despite all the red flags
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 04:15
|
|
|
WhyteRyce posted:Steven Adams and Andre Drummond taught me that forget conventional wisdom just take a chance on the raw big guy who turns into a good player despite all the red flags Hasheem Thabeet.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 05:21
|
|
|
Kibner posted:Hasheem Thabeet. https://youtu.be/YHedUhiG0MY 
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 05:39
|
|
|
Kibner posted:Hasheem Thabeet. If I was a scout, the minimum threshold for a raw toolsy college basketball giant would be him not being pushed around by strong scrappy 6'8 types in college.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 06:14
|
|
|
Dejan Bimble posted:I didn't watch college basketball or pay attention to pre draft scouting back then, but this is what I've read post-mortem. Everyone regarded Thabeet as a pretty big, Anthony Bennett esque, reach. The Grizzlies' owner insisted on it as a win-now move. Hasheem Thabeet couldn't handle NBA caliber athletes in college and would have to learn how to score, because he wasn't a roll man in any way. That year was seen as a weak draft, or at least a sharp drop-off after Griffin and Rubio. Hasheem had a decent body of work in college, he got better every year, was producing well at things he was supposed to be good at, and went to a school that at the time had a good reputation for developing big men. Contrast this with Adams who used to play against his girlfriend because he didn't have anyone else to play basketball against in New Zealand or Drummond who was called lazy by his teammates and talked about how he wanted to be like Kevin Durant or Dirk or some weird comparison. This was before the pace and space craze took over the league and the championship went through that frontcourt of Odom/Gasol/Bynum, so the thinking was that a limited big man who could control the key was worth taking a shot on in a weak draft instead of one of the millions of crappy combo guards that were littering the lottery because everyone knows combo guards are the bane of the league.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 07:13
|
|
|
WhyteRyce posted:That year was seen as a weak draft, or at least a sharp drop-off after Griffin and Rubio. Hasheem had a decent body of work in college, he got better every year, was producing well at things he was supposed to be good at, and went to a school that at the time had a good reputation for developing big men. Contrast this with Adams who used to play against his girlfriend because he didn't have anyone else to play basketball against in New Zealand or Drummond who was called lazy by his teammates and talked about how he wanted to be like Kevin Durant or Dirk or some weird comparison. This was before the pace and space craze took over the league and the championship went through that frontcourt of Odom/Gasol/Bynum, so the thinking was that a limited big man who could control the key was worth taking a shot on in a weak draft instead of one of the millions of crappy combo guards that were littering the lottery because everyone knows combo guards are the bane of the league. Drummond was special, tools wise. There isn't another man of his size who's as quick/bouncy/strong. He was immature in a literal sense, he was just a kid who really missed his family and was new to ball. But his tools were undeniable. He also suffered from lovely guards who refused to pass, like Steven Adams, in fact. Adams was very raw, but he looked like an NBA big. Your theory is right. The toolsy big big is a safe bet. I reason this is because the current era has made their jobs simpler, they don't need to post up, they don't need to shoot from the elbows, they only to run to the rim, set screens, and be large on defense. Offhand, the failure of toolsy bigs seems to be pretty strongly correlated with lack of strength, not only simple physical strength, something like ability to hold a spot on the court. Bebe Nogueria is a crazy athlete but gets easily shoved around. Javale is mobile and can jump to the moon, but he's always been easy to move from his spot. Thin bigs are the true gamble, they need to be rangy and have enough basketball iq and coordination to make up for their lack of stoutness. Thin power forwards without jumpers are bada big risk, that's why Brice Johnson is being mocked at 20 or so, despite being very productive and looking awesome as the year went on. Color commentators love to tell us how an undersized hustle power forward proves that size doesn't really matter, but those guys are almost always long armed, stout, and strong as heck. I feel dirty after using so many cliches. I'll try harder to write with real words next time. Dejan Bimble fucked around with this message at 07:58 on May 16, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 07:53
|
|
|
That draft Thabeet and Curry were the same player. Not position wise, but "Lots of potential to do well or bust". Thabeet because he was so raw and Curry because it wasn't clear if he could play point or defend the 2, or bring enough to the table beyond shooting. Thabeet was maybe a little reach, but not a huge one. I remember being was more surprised at Harden #3. What was funny was Thabeet went right into the D-League which at that time was basically unprecedented. The best "Drafted a Big that everyone knew was a bust" was Jan Vesely.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 12:01
|
|
|
I was on the "Harden is the best player on the draft" train which would sound very impressive had Steph Curry not decided to become an all time great like over night. No one loved Thabeet but I think the appeal was that he was generally seen as fairly low risk because at the very least he was so big people figured he could be a great rim protector in the Hibbert mold and there was hope he could maybe become more because he'd improved so much in college. No one was all that enthused about him going second even at the time though.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 15:05
|
|
|
Wasn't it one of those weirdly telegraphed picks where even the most casual fans knew it would fail? I had similar thoughts when the Hawks drafted Sheldon Williams. He looked like his best case scenario ceiling was roughly like one season at 8 and 5 as a decent backup PF on a mediocre team. While in fairness it was a weak draft, but man did he look out of place in the NBA.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 15:11
|
|
|
iamsosmrt posted:Wasn't it one of those weirdly telegraphed picks where even the most casual fans knew it would fail? Yeah everyone thought that was way too high for Williams. For some reason Atlanta made a promise to him and stuck with it, even with Roy (who everyone knew was good, even with the knee issues) on the board. Atlanta was really bad at drafting at the time. It was the year after they had the number 2 pick, desperately needed a point guard, and took Marvin Williams with Chris Paul AND Deron Williams on the board (which is actually another good example of "literally everyone thought this was dumb even at the time")
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 15:19
|
|
|
MourningView posted:I was on the "Harden is the best player on the draft" train which would sound very impressive had Steph Curry not decided to become an all time great like over night. I'm not sure I'd call Thabeet a safe pick, but maybe a safe risk? He was definitely super-raw and had bust potential, on the other hand athletic 7'3" guy. iamsosmrt posted:Wasn't it one of those weirdly telegraphed picks where even the most casual fans knew it would fail? I think it was one of those things where casual fans were right but for the wrong reasons. Casual fans frequently want you to take the 23 year old who had a good tournament but taking a swing for the fences isn't a bad idea. Thabeet probably should have gone a little later in the lottery though.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 15:30
|
|
|
I remember it being really fun to watch Thabeet play against DeJuan Blair in college. In hindsight that was probably a red flag.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 15:42
|
|
|
I loved the Dancing Bear. Sucks about his knees, though. 
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 15:55
|
|
|
Going back a little further, was there actually an expectation that Robert "Tractor" Traylor would be a decent NBA player? He literally had the body type of someone's middle aged uncle. Adding insult to injury, he was actually valued higher than Dirk Nowitzki by the Bucks.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 16:05
|
|
|
Lockback posted:I'm not sure I'd call Thabeet a safe pick, but maybe a safe risk? He was definitely super-raw and had bust potential, on the other hand athletic 7'3" guy. Not safe in the sense that it was likely he'd be worth a high pick, just safe in that he seemed like someone very likely to be a rotation player at worst because he was so big and he was expected to at least to useful defensively. iamsosmrt posted:Going back a little further, was there actually an expectation that Robert "Tractor" Traylor would be a decent NBA player? He literally had the body type of someone's middle aged uncle. Adding insult to injury, he was actually valued higher than Dirk Nowitzki by the Bucks. Yeah. He was insanely athletic for a guy that big
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 16:13
|
|
|
DeJuan Blair. Whatever happened to him? edit: I had no idea that he was in still in the league until the Suns waived him 3 months ago.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 16:14
|
|
|
Jack's Flow posted:DeJuan Blair. Whatever happened to him? It turns out having literally no ACLs is not conducive to a long NBA career. Dude is legit one of the best college players of the last decade or so though. He was an absolute monster on the boards.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 16:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 16, 2024 14:22 |
|
|
Jack's Flow posted:DeJuan Blair. Whatever happened to him?
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 16:17
|
|