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I never saw that final twist coming.
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May 18, 2016 04:40
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So uh, should I take Elias out of the fallen section in the op???
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May 18, 2016 04:44
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Zaggitz posted:So uh, should I take Elias out of the fallen section in the op??? YES This was the best thing that could have happened
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May 18, 2016 04:57
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I squealed loudly when they finally showed Elias. I love Enrico Colantoni. I started to think maybe that was what "the huge twist" was when Elias's friend showed up and wouldn't go away. I know CBS is pretending to encourage viewers to watch, but I think they sometimes do the episode a disservice by putting "omg you won't believe the huge twist at the end" in commercials. I would have been completely surprised sans that teaser.
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May 18, 2016 05:29
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 OK that was a hell of an episode.
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May 18, 2016 05:42
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Zaggitz posted:in 5x3 they offhandedly mention the safehouse not being a place they can just take the guy being hunted by the CIA but don't explain why. Aw yeah, then Shaw didn't compromise it in her simulations~
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May 18, 2016 06:18
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I went into the Shaw episode spoiled thanks to the Internet and this thread, and while I'm not complaining about spoilers (I'm a grown-rear end adult who can deal), gently caress that episode was depressing to watch when I had foreknowledge of what was actually going on 
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May 18, 2016 06:59
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THESE LAST TWO EPISODES HAVE JUST KILLED IT. god drat. I was so afraid S5 would feel rushed and/or be lovely due to how short it was, but I'm thrilled so far. Really loved Garvin's character, Fusco was great, Elias is not only back but BEAR HAS BEEN LOOKING AFTER HIM, bless.
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May 18, 2016 07:14
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Awesome episode. Love me some fusco. Anyone think there's some potential for Blackwell to become a double agent? He seems pretty adamant on doing the right thing.
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May 18, 2016 07:15
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buddhanc posted:Awesome episode. Love me some fusco. Anyone think there's some potential for Blackwell to become a double agent? He seems pretty adamant on doing the right thing. Yeah, we were discussing this in my house earlier. Potential for him to be a double agent or even a triple agent, i.e. the team gets him on their side but in the end he betrays them and sets up a Bad Ending by defaulting back to Samaritan. This is one of the only shows where I am picturing a triple-cross plot and not wanting to smack one of the writers up the head. I have faith they could do either really well.
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May 18, 2016 07:26
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My take on Blackwell arc is that he will be the key to taking Samaritan down somehow. It's perfect karma for some irrelevant rando to be the one responsible for taking out the god that thinks so little of humanity that it assumes a do-gooder like Blackwell would let himself be manipulated like that.
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May 18, 2016 07:29
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So happy Elias is alive.
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May 18, 2016 07:35
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I think it's sorta interesting that Samaritan isn't necessarily vindictive, in that when its plan went sideways and the paper was released, it didn't vengeance kill Garvin and instead just kinda went, ah fuckit whatever. That poor Mary girl, though  Fusco rallying the cops to find John was a great hell yeah moment, though. Also, here is an investigative journalism podcast about the real life ShotSpotter that ShotSeeker was based on. I thought it was interesting: https://www.revealnews.org/episodes/guns-and-americas-murder-board/
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May 18, 2016 07:50
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Bruce and Elias were goddamn amazing. The only thing I didn't kinda like was how twisty turny and suspicious things were from the get go and it took Team Machine to suspect Samaritan. I guessed Samaritan from the get go when they revealed the super neat computer system falsely reported gunshots as firecrackers. I'm kinda surprised they didn't jump to Samaritan so quickly. Also at first I thought the cup of tea Finch finds in the safehouse was supposed to be a reference about how long it's been since they used it.Totally didn't expect it to be from Elias. Or Finch visiting Elias.
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May 18, 2016 08:05
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It seems they're pretty outmatched if the Machine loses 10 billion in a row My guess is that the baby Machine will merge with the baby Samaritan at some point, since it can't beat it
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May 18, 2016 08:08
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override367 posted:It seems they're pretty outmatched if the Machine loses 10 billion in a row I'm betting they're going to give this simulation data to the Machine and the Machine will alter it's code to do exactly that. Or will alter itself, run the sims, then try again and again. Unless I missed something, all that sim data is being kept isolated in the faraday cage, so the Machine hasn't been able to access it yet.
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May 18, 2016 08:34
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override367 posted:It seems they're pretty outmatched if the Machine loses 10 billion in a row Yeah it seems to all be building up to this. Roots intro in the beginning is probably going to end up being the Machine's goodbye speech to the team.
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May 18, 2016 09:12
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Zaggitz posted:He remains unconquered, motherfuckers. hail to the king, baby
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May 18, 2016 10:45
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override367 posted:It seems they're pretty outmatched if the Machine loses 10 billion in a row
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May 18, 2016 13:33
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I pretty much expect this to be the season finale. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIRT6xRQkf8 Those simulations are about who can win, the Machine or Samaritan. But if the Machine decides to not win and instead pick a goal sideways to that, it could succeed in that goal instead.
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May 18, 2016 14:09
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buddhanc posted:Awesome episode. Love me some fusco. Anyone think there's some potential for Blackwell to become a double agent? He seems pretty adamant on doing the right thing. Yeah, my gut feeling is that it's going to come down to Samaritan's snap computation judgment of Blackwell vs Reese's more empathetic assessment earlier in that episode (5x02) -- "smart/has a record of violence? SIGN HIM UP! " vs "he's got a history but he's pretty clearly trying to sort his poo poo out, doesn't seem to be a bad guy to me" -- and Samaritan's inability to evaluate people on that level will be (part of) its downfall.
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May 18, 2016 15:25
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override367 posted:It seems they're pretty outmatched if the Machine loses 10 billion in a row I wish they framed that in some way that actually matters to the viewer beyond "this computer's arbitrary DBZ power levels are higher than the other computer's" Like, why and how is Samaritan Jr. defeating Machine Jr.? I have no idea after watching that beyond "it just is shut up." It's like the supercomputer equivalent of Mohinder holding the door shut.
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May 18, 2016 15:35
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Well played Nolan, well played, good job keeping Elias under their hat. It was great having Fusco cover it up by being angry.raditts posted:It's like the supercomputer equivalent of Mohinder holding the door shut. No way the writers is going pull this kind of utter poo poo dreak like this for the ending. Even budget short Season 4 ended well. The whole point of it was to show how drat hopeless poo poo is. This might be one of the few shows that ends with a "bad" ending.
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May 18, 2016 16:50
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oohhboy posted:Well played Nolan, well played, good job keeping Elias under their hat. It was great having Fusco cover it up by being angry. The point is also to show that the Machine can't beat Samaritan unaided. It needs its human component -- the immediate team/assets, the irrelevants, etc. Root talks about 'arming' it against Samaritan, but the only 'arms' it actually needs are its people. It doesn't matter how Samaritan keeps beating TM in these simulations, only that it does when both are completely isolated from any possible external/unpredictable variable, wild cards like Shaw was in If-Then-Else. Wild cards like Elias and Blackwell probably will be.
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May 18, 2016 16:58
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I don't know that it'll be 'bad' , but I'm definitely feeling like it's going to be really open after a big paradigm shift of some sort. I wonder if this episode is doing something to set that up with them releasing the research. It's definitely in keeping with the show that releasing something when you don't understand the consequences is dangerous. I like the Root/Reese parallel in that they're both trying to encourage the person they're protecting to take up arms. Reese trying to teach Harold to shoot definitely has an echo in Root wanting to teach the Machine to push back. Their pacifistic natures are the only thing keeping them from becoming the monsters they're fighting, as evidenced by the Garrison kidnapping. I definitely am interested to see where they take that. Echophonic fucked around with this message at 17:05 on May 18, 2016 |
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May 18, 2016 17:03
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xeria posted:The point is also to show that the Machine can't beat Samaritan unaided. It needs its human component -- the immediate team/assets, the irrelevants, etc. Root talks about 'arming' it against Samaritan, but the only 'arms' it actually needs are its people. Pretty much this. By the way, schedule for next week: Monday, May 23, 10 PM EST: 5.06 A More Perfect Union Tuesday, May 24, 9 PM EST: 5.07 QSO Tuesday, May 24, 10 PM EST: 5.08 Reassortment One of my Canadian brothers can go ahead and confirm that it's the same thing on CTV. Zaggitz fucked around with this message at 17:14 on May 18, 2016 |
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May 18, 2016 17:09
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One neat detail I caught was the Bear wasn't in the subway. They showed his dog bed a couple times and I thought it strange it was empty. They could have just moved the bed and not drawn attention to it if they weren't going to spend the money to have him around. Turns out he's keeping Elias company in the safe house 
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May 18, 2016 17:13
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JossiRossi posted:One neat detail I caught was the Bear wasn't in the subway. They showed his dog bed a couple times and I thought it strange it was empty. They could have just moved the bed and not drawn attention to it if they weren't going to spend the money to have him around. Turns out he's keeping Elias company in the safe house They actually show Bear with Harold at the start of the episode when hes improving safe house security. He immediately dashes across the room to something which I thought was weird at first glance but now knowing he was headed to be Elias' bedside dog is all kinds of .
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May 18, 2016 17:17
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The biggest disappointment for me will be if the show ends with them cleanly defeating Samaritan and returning to the status quo, with the final shot being team machine heading out to save another number, and the machine being chained up again by Harold I'd rather team machine all die in a blaze of glory and Samaritan finally announce that it is our new master via the (firmly brainwashed) president's voice than have it have a status quo ending I am still salty about Stargate Atlantis' ending. override367 fucked around with this message at 20:04 on May 18, 2016 |
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May 18, 2016 20:01
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The AI will merge and through some series of events we get Westworld.
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May 18, 2016 20:27
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override367 posted:The biggest disappointment for me will be if the show ends with them cleanly defeating Samaritan and returning to the status quo, with the final shot being team machine heading out to save another number, and the machine being chained up again by Harold I don't think everybody makes it out alive, but I don't think we are looking at a bad ending either.
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May 18, 2016 20:34
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I believe a comparison of simulated persons projected by Samaritan in 6,741 to those of TM's simulation in If-Then-Else shows how much more advanced and nuanced of a theory of mind and understanding of human motivations and personality TM has than Samaritan, who seems to dabble in cliches and the superficial. Did anyone find the awkward grasping and shirt tearing between Root and Shaw to be reminiscent of pulp romance novel covers? If the story weren't so recent compared to the episode's production I'd wonder if it were a nod to Google feeding romance novels to its natural speaking engine. It may lack in brute force as seen in the cage match shutout, but if TM were in Samaritan's place I doubt she would have taken nearly as many iterations to assemble a simulation that would lead Shaw to the hideouts. I'm also not sure which of the mental flickers or changes in Shaw's affect were not Samaritan but her own subconscious, now given thousands of feedback loops to strengthen the neural connections toward distrusting reality and her own actions that were her only line of defense in the mental hack, which makes me worry what will happen if she ever actually escapes to encounter Root and the others. I'm a tiny bit worried that Samaritan might have detected an actual health risk inherent to the produce preservation process and that they should have asked TM her opinion, but not as worried as I am about Samaritan having ears everywhere, presumably even encroaching deeper into the dark zones where the gang often discusses matters relatively out in the open.
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May 18, 2016 21:34
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Zaggitz posted:Pretty much this. Hold the phone. We get three episodes next week????
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May 18, 2016 22:02
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GrandpaPants posted:I think it's sorta interesting that Samaritan isn't necessarily vindictive, in that when its plan went sideways and the paper was released, it didn't vengeance kill Garvin and instead just kinda went, ah fuckit whatever. That poor Mary girl, though I hope there are repercussions for them just releasing her research like that. I mean Finch hinted at that they don't really know what Samaritan is planning, but I would love it if Samaritan was trying to think of the greater good and had reasons for wanting to hold onto that data for now. They save one life but get thousands killed because they couldn't think ahead.
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May 18, 2016 22:14
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override367 posted:The biggest disappointment for me will be if the show ends with them cleanly defeating Samaritan and returning to the status quo, with the final shot being team machine heading out to save another number, and the machine being chained up again by Harold What is it with goons and their lust for movies / TV shows ending with everyone dying for no good reason?
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May 18, 2016 22:38
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:I hope there are repercussions for them just releasing her research like that. I mean Finch hinted at that they don't really know what Samaritan is planning, but I would love it if Samaritan was trying to think of the greater good and had reasons for wanting to hold onto that data for now. They save one life but get thousands killed because they couldn't think ahead. It runs the scary implication that something like the Correction from the last season didn't just target criminals but maybe also people conducive to positive change but didn't align with Samaritan's view of the world.
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May 18, 2016 22:51
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They hosed up by putting the Shaw-Vs-Samaritan simulation episode before the one where they introduce the concept of Machine-Vs-Samaritan simulations. I'm not overly fond of how that episode seems to be a bit of a shaggy dog, and suspect it might have seemed a little more fitting in production order, where you get the reveal that, oh gently caress, Samaritan has its own laptop in a faraday cage and its Shaw.
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May 18, 2016 22:57
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Flea Wars posted:They hosed up by putting the Shaw-Vs-Samaritan simulation episode before the one where they introduce the concept of Machine-Vs-Samaritan simulations. Having these ep back to back is brilliant because it actually shows the viewer that where Samaritan struggles is the human element, Shaw wins in the sim every time, the Machine conversely loses every time. Zaggitz fucked around with this message at 23:09 on May 18, 2016 |
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May 18, 2016 23:03
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raditts posted:What is it with goons and their lust for movies / TV shows ending with everyone dying for no good reason? There's plenty of good reason for people who spend most of their time being shot at by goons of a near-omniscient AI to die. While I don't necessarily agree with the bits past the first statement, if everything returns to how it was it will thematically conflict with the rest of the series. It wouldn't ring true, either, since there's no potential way for us to magically write away the idea of a surveillance state in real life. It would also mean that all of the changes in philosophy of the main characters over the series was a red herring if everything returns to exactly as it was in S1/2/3, since Finch was right all along. Samaritan could be eradicated, every member of Team Machine could walk out of this alive, but the team has to suffer some form of permanent change--even if it's mostly mental.
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May 18, 2016 23:22
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There's a pretty wide gulf of possibilities in the spectrum between "everybody dies, whether or not Samaritan wins" and "nobody dies, Samaritan is cleanly defeated, reset button effectively pushed".
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May 18, 2016 23:28
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