Patrick Rothfuss: Technical Difficulties

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Trammel: Dec 31, 2007; .

BananaNutkins posted:

I will honestly enjoy reading the next book on so many levels. No upcoming fantasy can compete with the meta hate game that Doors of Stone has going for it, except maybe the Trump presidency.

If there was no "meta hate game", could you really "enjoy reading the next book on so many levels"?

I don't think you could argue the book's quality of plot & writing is affected by the number of people that dislike it.

At some point, you could actively dislike the crap writing, and crap plot, but enjoy the experience of reading it, in anticipation of the "meta hate game". You could come out and say, "Subjectively, and objectively, it's crap; but I'm really going to enjoy arguing about this passage on the internet."

# ? May 27, 2016 08:19

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# ? Apr 23, 2024 12:23

Solice Kirsk: Jun 1, 2004; .

Just like the other two books I'm assuming I'm gonna enjoy it just enough to get through it and it won't be until I've finished that I realize it was mostly garbage. It will be good have a lot more to discuss here and with my friends though. Especially because I'm one of like 2 people in the world that doesn't think Ambrose is the king he's gonna kill and my gut is telling me it could be Simm.

# ? May 27, 2016 15:41

MartingaleJack: Aug 26, 2004; I'll split you open and I don't even like coconuts.

Trammel posted:

If there was no "meta hate game", could you really "enjoy reading the next book on so many levels"?

I don't think you could argue the book's quality of plot & writing is affected by the number of people that dislike it.

At some point, you could actively dislike the crap writing, and crap plot, but enjoy the experience of reading it, in anticipation of the "meta hate game". You could come out and say, "Subjectively, and objectively, it's crap; but I'm really going to enjoy arguing about this passage on the internet."

Rothfuss is bad, but not a terribly bad writer in light of the sixty years of bad fantasy that preceeded him. He is only getting so much attention because of the quantity of praise unjustly heaped upon him for the quality of his prose. That plus his obnoxious persona makes him the very best whipping boy.

I also enjoy reading bad fantasy from other authors and underlining particularly egregious segments. It doesnt require anywhere near the same amount of effort as a high-level deconstuction of themes and plot devices, but it is very satisfying.

Here's a two from the last Wheel of Time book that made me laugh:

On Page 227:

Wheel of Time posted:

She had a mature face, aged and wise, with a wise look about her and a smile on her face.

On page 769, Olver is chased as he carries the Horn to safety:

Wheel of Time posted:

The beasts ran behind with howls and yells.

# ? May 28, 2016 04:47

Atlas Hugged: Mar 12, 2007; Put your arms around me,
fiddly digits, itchy britches
I love you all

At least with those you can either say it's because Jordan was on his death bed or because Sanderson is really clunky with his prose.

# ? May 28, 2016 17:53

Blastedhellscape: Jan 1, 2008

That first quote reads like something from a first draft that was just never, ever proofread.

�I�m sleepy,� the sleepy man said sleepily.

# ? May 28, 2016 18:21

Atlas Hugged: Mar 12, 2007; Put your arms around me,
fiddly digits, itchy britches
I love you all

Blastedhellscape posted:

That first quote reads like something from a first draft that was just never, ever proofread.

“I’m sleepy,” the sleepy man said sleepily.

That's how I read it. The last three books are riddled with passages like that because technically Jordan wrote them and Sanderson wanted to leave as much unaltered as possible. But Jordan himself would have gone back and cleaned something like that up. His problem was in bloat, not in prose (at least in comparison to his contemporaries).

Sanderson, on the other hand, is a work horse who lacks even that degree of finesse. Which is fine because he actually finishes his drat books.

# ? May 29, 2016 05:36

RODNEY THE RACEHOR: Jan 1, 2016; i hope my friend dahmer has a happy ending

trash

# ? May 30, 2016 11:43

BravestOfTheLamps: Oct 12, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Lipstick Apathy

LET�S READ THE KINGKILLER CHRONICLE CRITICALLY

Part 25: �But my diligence gained me nothing.�

I�ve pre-emptively cancelled the chapter-by-chapter review of Wise Man�s Fear, first because it�s not going to benefit from the same exhaustive scrutiny, and second because the format itself isn�t that great for critically reading the series. There�s a third reason, too: at this point the books have become boring. No way around it. This next ten or so chapters are probably the nadir of The Name of the Wind because they are the dullest. The ending stretch does not particularly improve upon it. The rest, no matter how bad it gets, benefits from at least a sense of progression in the narrative and from writing that�s funny in a dumb way. At this point it�s an endurance test.

Chapter 60, �Fortune�, picks up next morning, with the lottery for the admission interviews the students will have to pass once again. Kvothe happens to win a late slot, coveted by other students as it gives more time to study. Ambrose conversely receives an early slot, and arrogantly offers to buy Kvothe�s slot. This leads to a very bad battle of wits, which Kvothe wins by leading Ambrose to admit his own deficiency of courtly manners. He sells his slot to someone else, but still needs money. He is unable to make Count Threpe his patron, Devi turns out to be intimidating, but he does get back to work in the Artificery, and he finds an inn to host him as a musician. Now he has a money and a good place to sleep. Of course he will have to downgrade in the next chapter.

Now this chapter is remarkable for its extremely bad structure. It�s centred around four different dialogues that differ thematically and stylistically, held together poorly by Kvothe�s search for more money.

If you can recall the first chapter, it featured a conversation between Kvothe and Bast that also lurched around thematically and stylistically, as if it was three dialogues awkwardly combined. The same principle applies here for the whole chapter. Kvothe speaks with Ambrose, Threpe, Devi, and Kilvin. These are all conversations in the same chapter:

quote:

Ambrose smiled at me. �Tell you what. I�ll give you ha�penny and one of my old shirts for your slot. That way, you�ll have something to wear when you�re washing that one in the river.� A few of his friends chuckled behind him, looking me up and down.

I kept my expression nonchalant, not wanting to give him any satisfaction. Truth was, I was all too aware of the fact that I only owned two shirts, and after two terms of constant wear they were getting shabby. Shabbier. What�s more, I did wash them in the river, as I�d never had money to spare for laundry.

�I�ll pass,� I said lightly. �Your shirttails are a little richly dyed for my taste.� I tugged at the front of my own shirt to make my point clear. A few nearby students laughed.

�I don�t get it,� I heard Sim say quietly to Wil.

�He�s implying Ambrose has the�� Wil paused. �The Edamete tass, a disease you get from whores. There is a discharge��

�Okay, okay,� Sim said quickly. �I get it. Ick. Ambrose is wearing green too.�

Meanwhile, Ambrose forced himself to chuckle along with the crowd at my joke. �I suppose I deserve that,� he said. �Very well, pennies for the poor.� He brought out his purse and shook it. �How much do you want?�

(The above conversation of course ends up with applause for Kvothe from onlookers. Really.)

quote:

�I don�t suppose I might persuade you to pay me a visit at my house sometime?� Threpe asked bashfully. �I�m thinking of having a little dinner, and I know a few people who would love to meet you.� He winked. �Word about your performance is already getting around.�

I felt a twinge of anxiety, but I knew rubbing elbows with the nobility was something of a necessary evil. �I�d be honored to, my lord.�

Threpe grimaced. �Does it have to be my lord?�

Diplomacy is a large part of being a trouper, and a large portion of diplomacy is adherence to title and rank. �Etiquette, my lord,� I said regretfully.

�Piss on etiquette,� Threpe said petulantly. �Etiquette is a set of rules people use so they can be rude to each other in public. I was born Dennais first, Threpe second, and count last of all.� He looked imploringly up at me. �Denn for short?�

I hesitated.

�Here at least,� he pleaded. �It makes me feel like a weed in a flowerbed when someone starts �lording� me here.�

I relaxed. �If it makes you happy, Denn.�

quote:

�I�d think you�d have your fill of books at the Archives,� she said, her voice thick with envy.

I shook my head. �I was banned,� I said. �I�ve spent about two hours total in the Archives, and half of that was getting thrown out on my ear.�

Devi nodded slowly. �I�d heard, but you never know which rumors are true. We�re in something of the same boat then.�

�I�d say you�re slightly better off,� I said looking over her shelves. �You�ve got Teccam here, and the Heroborica.� I scanned all the titles, looking for anything that might have information about the Amyr or the Chandrian, but nothing looked especially promising. �You�ve got The Mating Habits of the Common Draccus, too. I was partway through reading that when I was kicked out.�

�That�s the latest edition,� she said proudly. �There�s new engravings and a section on the Faen-Moite.�

I ran my fingers down the book�s spine, then stepped back. �It�s a nice collection.�

�Well,� she said teasingly. �If you promise to keep your hands clean, you could come over and do some reading now and again. If you bring your lute and play for me, I might even let you borrow a book or two, so long as you bring them back in a timely fashion.� She gave me a winsome smile. �We exiles should stick together.�

quote:

Kilvin made a sound somewhere between a snort and a huff and turned his eyes back to his work. �Elxa Dal�s pridefulness is rubbing off on you.� He drew a careful line on the glass. �Am I correct in assuming that you will no longer be spending evenings in my employ?�

Shocked, it took me a moment to catch my breath. �I�I wouldn�t�I came here to speak with you about�� about coming back to work in the shop. The thought of not working for Kilvin hadn�t crossed my mind.

�Apparently your music has more profit than working here.� Kilvin gave the coins on the table a significant look.

�But I want to work here!� I said wretchedly.

Kilvin�s face broke into a great white smile. �Good. I would not have wanted to lose you to the other side of the river. Music is a fine thing, but metal lasts.� He struck the table with two huge fingers to emphasize his point. Then he made a shooing motion with the hand that held his unfinished lamp. �Go. Do not be late for work or I will keep you polishing bottles and grinding ore for another term.�

As I left, I thought about what Kilvin had said. It was the first thing he had said to me that I did not agree with wholeheartedly. Metal rusts, I thought, music lasts forever.

Time will eventually prove one of us right.

Now you might think this is a quibble, but the problem here is very deep and fundamental: there�s once again no driving idea behind a narrative. So you go from a battle of wits to humouring a wealthy dilettante to flirtatious negotiations to a heart-to-heart with the gruff old master. After this there�s a passage where Kvothe rests in the comfort of the inn, so this all conveys certainty and relief. But there is no pace or rhythm to this chapter. Its once again an awkward combination of tones and motifs that end up cancelling each other out, leaving nothing but Kvothe�s hypnotically droning narration.

It�s very boring, is what I�m trying to say. Structurally, it�s the worst chapter so far, and in writing it�s as bad as usual. The utterly spiritless exchange of wit between Kvothe and Ambrose is the high-light here.

In Chapter 61, �Jackass, Jackass�, Liu Biao calls Sun Qian back and informs him that he has been advised to cut off his head and sent it to Cao Cao � no, Kvothe is looking for Denna in Imre, without success. What he discovers instead is that Ambrose has been busy smearing Kvothe�s reputation among the well-to-do. In revenge, Kvothe performs an insulting and catchy song about Ambrose:

quote:

On the surface, it was a ribald little tune about a donkey who wanted to be an arcanist. Our extraordinarily clever pun on Ambrose�s surname was as close as we came to mentioning him. But anyone with half a wit could tell who the shoe was meant to fit.

It was late when Threpe and I took the stage, and we weren�t the only ones worse for drink. There was thunderous laughter and applause from the majority of the audience, who called for an encore. We gave it to them again, and everyone came in singing on the chorus.

The key to the song�s success was its simplicity. You could whistle or hum it. Anyone with three fingers could play it, and if you had one ear and a bucket you could carry the tune. It was catchy, and vulgar, and mean-spirited. It spread through the University like a fire in a field.

Sun Qian laughs, and tells that if his head is sent to Cao Cao, he will simply invade Liu Biao�s lands sooner for showing fear � no, Kvothe enters the Archives the next morning. He meets one of the librarians, who�s a world-travelling adventurer and a fellow Edema Ruh. This is to make the University seem fantastical again. You might have noticed how prosaic the last few chapters have been. But Kvothe wants to meet Master Lorren, who has reclaimed his book from the bookstore in Imre. More importantly, Kvothe wishes for his ban from the Archives to be lifted.

This leads to the final piece of good writing in the book, high-lighted below:

quote:

�I... I also wanted to say that I was sorry for�� I stalled at the thought of actually mentioning open flame in the Archives. ��for what I did before.�

�I accept your apology, Kvothe.� Lorren looked back down at the book he had been reading. �Good morning.�

[...]

I manage to regain a little of my composure. �I understand your decision, Master Lorren. But is there anything I might do to earn readmittance? Honestly, I would rather be whipped again than spend another term banned. I would give you all the money in my pocket, though it isn�t much. I�d work long hours as a scriv, without pay, for the privilege of proving myself to you. I know you�re short-staffed during exams�.�

Lorren looked at me, his placid eyes almost curious. �All that?�

�All that,� I said,, hope billowing wildly through my chest. �All that and any other penance you desire.�

�I require but one thing to rescind my ban,� Lorren said.

I fought to keep a manic grin off my face. �Anything.�

�Demonstrate the patience and prudence which you have heretofore been lacking,� Lorren said. �Good morning.�

Isn�t it rather good? I�ve once again removed most anything extraneous. The actual passage is much worse (see today�s entry on Rothfussian Attributes). This is an authentic moment of Kvothe meeting his match. In writing it�s no equal to the Vancian first conversation between Kvothe and Abenthy, but it has the advantage in catharsis. It�s also completely irrelevant to the rest of the chapter. In fact, it hinders the principal action of the chapter, which is Kvothe�s and Ambrose�s rivalry. Even when Rothfuss manages to write something decent, he manages to hurt the book with it.

In the next paragraph, Kvothe is woken up and called before the Masters of the University. These weird jumps in narration keep cropping up, even though this whole text is supposed to be a continuous narration. They just don't fit into the premise of this being an oral record. This is compounded by the fact that this episode could be moved to the previous chapter, or the next one, or anywhere else really.

But back to the principal action. Ambrose has charged Kvothe with slander for his catchy song that everybody loves, especially eccentric Elodin! But the Chancellor tears down Ambrose with some pointed questions, and Kvothe will only have to make a public apology.

quote:

�I move the charge of Conduct Unbecoming be replaced with Undignified Mischief.�

�Seconded,� Kilvin said.

�All in favor?� All hands went up except for Hemme�s and Brandeur�s. �Motion passed. Discipline will be set at a formal letter of apology tendered to��

�For God�s sake, Arthur,� Hemme broke in. �At least make it a public letter.�

The Chancellor glared at Hemme, then shrugged. ��formal letter of apology posted publicly before the fall term. All in favor?� All hands were raised. �Motion passed.�

The Chancellor leaned forward onto his elbows and looked down at Ambrose. �Re�lar Ambrose, in the future you will refrain from wasting our time with spurious charges.�

I could feel the anger radiating off Ambrose. It was like standing near a fire. �Yes sir.�

Before I could feel smug, the Chancellor turned to me. �And you, E�lir Kvothe, will comport yourself with more decorum in the future.� His stern words were somewhat spoiled by the fact that Elodin had begun cheerfully humming the melody to �Jackass, Jackass� next to him.

I lowered my eyes and did my best to fight down a smile. �Yes, sir.�

�Dismissed.�

Ambrose turned on his heel and stormed off, but before he made it through the door, Elodin burst out singing:

�He�s a well-bred rear end, you can see it in his stride!
And for a copper penny he will let you take a ride!�

(�Comport� is not actually a typo. I learned a new word!)

But Ambrose is not done yet. After two days, Kvothe is kicked out of the inn that hosted him, and turned away when he offers his services to others. He figures that Ambrose bought out his inn, and let bribes and rumours do the rest. He finally ends up at Anker�s. whose gruff owner doesn�t care for Ambrose and immediately takes a liking to Kvothe. His room is smaller, and his music makes him less money at Anker�s, but he realises that this is a place where he can be happy and appreciated.

That�s basically what the whole chapter is about. Even when he faces setbacks, the world has to applaud Kvothe.

quote:

Looking back, I count myself lucky that I ended up in Anker�s. True, the crowds were not as wealthy as those at the Horse and Four, but they appreciated me in a way the nobles never had.

And while my suite of rooms at the Horse and Four had been luxurious, my tiny room at Anker�s was comfortable. Think in terms of shoes. You don�t want the biggest you can find. You want the pair that fits. In time, that tiny room at Anker�s came to be more of a home to me than anywhere else in the world.

But at that particular moment, I was furious at what Ambrose had cost me. So when I sat down to write my public letter of apology, it dripped with venomous sincerity. It was a work of art. I beat my breast with remorse. I wailed and gnashed my teeth over the fact that I had maligned a fellow student. I also included a full copy of the lyrics, along with two new verses and full musical notation. I then apologized in excruciating detail about every vulgar, petty innuendo included in the song.

I then spent four precious jots of my own money on paper and ink and called in the favor Jaxim owed me for trading him my late admissions slot. He had a friend that worked in a print shop, and with his help we printed over a hundred copies of the letter.

Then, the night before fall term began, Wil, Sim, and I posted them on every flat surface we could find on both sides of the river. We used a lovely alchemical adhesive Simmon had cooked up for the occasion. The stuff went on like paint, then dried clear as glass and hard as steel. If anyone wanted to remove the posts, they�d need a hammer and chisel.

In hindsight, it was as foolish as taunting an angry bull. And, if I had to guess, I�d say this particular piece of insolence was the main reason Ambrose eventually tried to kill me.

ROTHFUSSIAN ATTRIBUTES

quote:

�Enter,� Lorren called from inside. His voice was like a sheet of smooth grey slate, without the barest hint of inflection or emotion.

quote:

Tall, clean-shaven, and wearing his dark master�s robes, he reminded me of the enigmatic Silent Doctor character present in many Modegan plays. I fought off a shiver, trying not to dwell on the fact that the appearance of the Doctor always signaled catastrophe in the next act.

quote:

Lorren looked up at me. �You were caught with live fire among my books,� he said, emotion touching the edges of his voice like a hint of red sunset against the slate-grey clouds.

BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Jan 10, 2017

# ? May 31, 2016 20:08

Trammel: Dec 31, 2007; .

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

In Chapter 61, �Jackass, Jackass�, Liu Biao calls Sun Qian back and informs him that he has been advised to cut off his head and sent it to Cao Cao � no, Kvothe is looking for Denna in Imre, without success.

I always meant to get around to reading Romance of the 3 Kingdoms. Is there a translation you'd recommend?

# ? Jun 1, 2016 01:10

BravestOfTheLamps: Oct 12, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Lipstick Apathy

It's a million words long.

Watch the TV show instead.

# ? Jun 1, 2016 01:15

Come And See: Sep 15, 2008; We're all awash in a sea of blood, and the least we can do is wave to each other.

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

In revenge, Kvothe performs an insulting and catchy song about Ambrose:

Ambrose!
Stupid. Dumb. Useless. Garbage pile,
Light on fire and everybody cheers,
Like a new form of Burning Man!
Burn that waste - toxic, unnecessary,
It's gonna poison children,
Cause you're a big bag of refuse,
Left over by evil Nazis during war!
... Ya' dumb-rear end.

# ? Jun 1, 2016 01:52

Grenrow: Apr 11, 2016

I love that Rothfuss had to have Kvothe's sycophants stand off to the side and explain the joke during the battle of wits dialogue. Even if the joke was funny to begin with, having the idiot friends stand around and jaw about how funny it was would have killed any pacing or rhythm in the scene.

# ? Jun 1, 2016 02:30

HIJK: Nov 25, 2012; in the room where you sleep

Grenrow posted:

I love that Rothfuss had to have Kvothe's sycophants stand off to the side and explain the joke during the battle of wits dialogue. Even if the joke was funny to begin with, having the idiot friends stand around and jaw about how funny it was would have killed any pacing or rhythm in the scene.

But what kind of shonen anime would it be if there wasn't play by play commentary from the audience? Not a very good one!

# ? Jun 1, 2016 03:20

StonecutterJoe: Mar 29, 2016

quote:

�I�ll pass,� I said lightly. �Your shirttails are a little richly dyed for my taste.� I tugged at the front of my own shirt to make my point clear. A few nearby students laughed.

�I don�t get it,� I heard Sim say quietly to Wil.

�He�s implying Ambrose has the�� Wil paused. �The Edamete tass, a disease you get from whores. There is a discharge�"

I don't even understand this poo poo. Isn't a shirt tail in the BACK? And in any case, there's this bizarre disjunction between everyone laughing but thankfully there's one dude in the audience who is all EXPLAIN THIS JOKE TO ME.

# ? Jun 1, 2016 03:55

ulmont: Sep 15, 2010; IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE

StonecutterJoe posted:

I don't even understand this poo poo. Isn't a shirt tail in the BACK? And in any case, there's this bizarre disjunction between everyone laughing but thankfully there's one dude in the audience who is all EXPLAIN THIS JOKE TO ME.

Re: shirttail: usually the back but also counts the front parts below the waist and commonly tucked in.

Re: explain this joke: Rothfuss knows his audience.

# ? Jun 1, 2016 04:18

Arbite: Nov 4, 2009

Trammel posted:

I always meant to get around to reading Romance of the 3 Kingdoms. Is there a translation you'd recommend?

I enjoyed Moss Roberts' work, but there may be something a bit smoother these days.

Arbite fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Jun 1, 2016

# ? Jun 1, 2016 06:17

Atlas Hugged: Mar 12, 2007; Put your arms around me,
fiddly digits, itchy britches
I love you all

Probably the most redeeming sequence of Neal Stephenson's "Reamde" is the exchange between the linguist-slash-fantasy author and the guy in charge of the company making the video game the author is world building for. The conversation centers around a previous, less talented author trying to make everything fantasy sounding by sticking apostrophes everywhere and the linguist explaining that apostrophes actually have to mean something and if the goal is for the world to actually be authentic, then the apostrophes must be dropped.

Looking at the above passages and seeing all those apostrophes stuck into names just to make them sound fantastical might be the thing that annoys me the most about them.

# ? Jun 1, 2016 07:37

RODNEY THE RACEHOR: Jan 1, 2016; i hope my friend dahmer has a happy ending

irredeemable TRASH

# ? Jun 1, 2016 10:01

Strom Cuzewon: Jul 1, 2010

A pizzle deemed to fizzle is probably the funniest phrase Rothfuss has managed to produce, but I can't help feeling he's ripping off Spasticus Autisticus

# ? Jun 1, 2016 11:17

neongrey: Feb 28, 2007; Plaguing your posts with incidental music.

Dammit if it's not true then it is slander.

# ? Jun 1, 2016 11:37

ChickenWing: Jul 22, 2010

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

�Enter,� Lorren called from inside. His voice was like a sheet of smooth grey slate, without the barest hint of inflection or emotion.

This is a little goofy.

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

Lorren looked up at me. �You were caught with live fire among my books,� he said, emotion touching the edges of his voice like a hint of red sunset against the slate-grey clouds.

This is not goofy and actually good, especially in the context of the previous simile

# ? Jun 1, 2016 14:16

Oxxidation: Jul 22, 2007

ChickenWing posted:

This is not goofy and actually good, especially in the context of the previous simile

"Emotion" is too vague a term and that simile is clumsy, overwrought, and far too long for a dialogue attribution, especially without being placed in its own sentence.

# ? Jun 1, 2016 14:55

BravestOfTheLamps: Oct 12, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Lipstick Apathy

it's an example of what I've mentioned previously: the similes and metaphors are so broad that they end up occupying the reader's imagination, and thus distract from the fact that they don't make very much sense.

How is a voice like clouds?

# ? Jun 1, 2016 15:31

ChickenWing: Jul 22, 2010

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

it's an example of what I've mentioned previously: the similes and metaphors are so broad that they end up occupying the reader's imagination, and thus distract from the fact that they don't make very much sense.

How is a voice like clouds?

The simile isn't describing his voice, it's describing how the emotion touches his voice.

# ? Jun 1, 2016 15:38

BravestOfTheLamps: Oct 12, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Lipstick Apathy

ChickenWing posted:

it's describing how the emotion touches his voice.

So it's describing his voice.

# ? Jun 1, 2016 15:42

MartingaleJack: Aug 26, 2004; I'll split you open and I don't even like coconuts.

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

So it's describing his voice.

It's Kvothfuss doing his typical schtick of unpacking the blocking descriptions way too far, and the main reason the word count is bloated and ridiculous yet nothing happens over 1200 pages. Yes, it is just his voice. Specifically, it is how his voice trembles or inflects in an unspecified way (bad writing) when his brain registers emotion.

Maybe in book three Kvothfuss will reach really deep and describe dopamine receptors being lit.

# ? Jun 1, 2016 17:08

ChickenWing: Jul 22, 2010

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

So it's describing his voice.

# ? Jun 1, 2016 18:22

Atlas Hugged: Mar 12, 2007; Put your arms around me,
fiddly digits, itchy britches
I love you all

It's one of those amazing sentences that is grammatically correct but manages to mean absolutely nothing.

# ? Jun 1, 2016 18:45

Oxxidation: Jul 22, 2007

Atlas Hugged posted:

It's one of those amazing sentences that is grammatically correct but manages to mean absolutely nothing.

Not really that amazing, it's a pretty common sight in bad writing. I saw a lot of underclassman stories that did that sort of thing all the time.

# ? Jun 1, 2016 19:02

MartingaleJack: Aug 26, 2004; I'll split you open and I don't even like coconuts.

Atlas Hugged posted:

It's one of those amazing sentences that is grammatically correct but manages to mean absolutely nothing.

At a convention, I met Kvothfuss and heard him speak. He mentioned that he has "literally" hundreds of beta readers, but he had a rule for offering feedback, and the rule is thus: Don't offer advice on the sentence or paragraph level. That's his wheelhouse. He's spent "literally" hundreds of hours pouring over every line so the read goes smoothly "like water rushing over river stones".

Messing with his prose, he said, was a "slapping offense" and a quick way to get you dropped from his exclusive circle of readers.

Then he read articles from his blog and the crappy school newspaper he wrote for for eight years.

# ? Jun 1, 2016 19:28

HIJK: Nov 25, 2012; in the room where you sleep

BananaNutkins posted:

At a convention, I met Kvothfuss and heard him speak. He mentioned that he has "literally" hundreds of beta readers, but he had a rule for offering feedback, and the rule is thus: Don't offer advice on the sentence or paragraph level. That's his wheelhouse. He's spent "literally" hundreds of hours pouring over every line so the read goes smoothly "like water rushing over river stones".

Messing with his prose, he said, was a "slapping offense" and a quick way to get you dropped from his exclusive circle of readers.

Then he read articles from his blog and the crappy school newspaper he wrote for for eight years.

No wonder his prose is so bad the piece of poo poo.

That reminds me of the speech Gurm gave where he whined about how mean editors are and how stupid and evil they are to his precious work and how they get in the way of his VISION

# ? Jun 1, 2016 19:31

BravestOfTheLamps: Oct 12, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Lipstick Apathy

BananaNutkins posted:

At a convention, I met Kvothfuss and heard him speak. He mentioned that he has "literally" hundreds of beta readers, but he had a rule for offering feedback, and the rule is thus: Don't offer advice on the sentence or paragraph level. That's his wheelhouse. He's spent "literally" hundreds of hours pouring over every line so the read goes smoothly "like water rushing over river stones".

Messing with his prose, he said, was a "slapping offense" and a quick way to get you dropped from his exclusive circle of readers.

Then he read articles from his blog and the crappy school newspaper he wrote for for eight years.

I don't believe you.

Or more accurately, I don't want to believe you.

# ? Jun 1, 2016 19:34

Oxxidation: Jul 22, 2007

If they can't point at the "sentence or paragraph level" (a disingenuous way of saying "the writing itself"), then what's left? The plot? Because I'm getting the impression that was also disregarded somewhat.

# ? Jun 1, 2016 19:43

SpacePig: Apr 4, 2007; I'M FEELING JIMMY

Oxxidation posted:

If they can't point at the "sentence or paragraph level" (a disingenuous way of saying "the writing itself"), then what's left? The plot? Because I'm getting the impression that was also disregarded somewhat.

Formatting, maybe? Or he just wants people's opinions on where to drop Chronicler and In-Universe Storytelling chapters.

# ? Jun 1, 2016 19:58

AngusPodgorny: Jun 3, 2004; Please to be restful, it is only a puffin that has from the puffin place outbroken.

BananaNutkins posted:

At a convention, I met Kvothfuss and heard him speak. He mentioned that he has "literally" hundreds of beta readers, but he had a rule for offering feedback, and the rule is thus: Don't offer advice on the sentence or paragraph level. That's his wheelhouse. He's spent "literally" hundreds of hours pouring over every line so the read goes smoothly "like water rushing over river stones".

This is the exact opposite of what I thought his attitude toward sentences was. I pictured him poring over minutia like words and phrases, while completely disregarding the effect of anything larger like sentences, paragraphs, or chapters. Thus him butchering a sentence to force in his "red sunset against the slate-grey clouds" analogy.

Not the disregarding feedback part, though, that's exactly how I assumed he was.

# ? Jun 1, 2016 21:15

RODNEY THE RACEHOR: Jan 1, 2016; i hope my friend dahmer has a happy ending

rubbish!

# ? Jun 1, 2016 22:41

Flattened Spoon: Dec 31, 2007

RODNEY THE RACEHOR posted:

rubbish!

Dumpster poo poo awful!

# ? Jun 2, 2016 01:23

Evil Fluffy: Jul 13, 2009; Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

Trammel posted:

I always meant to get around to reading Romance of the 3 Kingdoms. Is there a translation you'd recommend?

http://store.steampowered.com/app/278080/

# ? Jun 2, 2016 04:14

Solice Kirsk: Jun 1, 2004; .

Evil Fluffy posted:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/278080/

This is the correct answer. Really brings Lu Bu to life. Or any of the RotTK strategy rpgs by KOIE. Those are what taught me about the lowly born "Martin Lawrence" who rose to power and eventually defeated Cao Ren for control of all of China.

# ? Jun 2, 2016 05:11

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Apr 23, 2024 12:23

Smiling Knight: May 31, 2011

Arbite posted:

I enjoyed Moss Roberts' work, but there may be something a bit smoother these days.

Moss Roberts' translation is very good, and also includes a superb appendix that goes into the history and historiography of the historical Three Kingdoms era.

# ? Jun 3, 2016 03:35

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > Patrick Rothfuss: Technical Difficulties

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