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Deyonta Davis's lack of bounce hurts his pnr finishing potential a bit, but he still looks like he could be a real late lottery valueRick posted:Manu needs a replacement. Kaiser Lindemann wrote a few articles about the last decade of drafting, and found that all the true star players from the draft fit the criteria of being two way players if they weren't pgs, and that outside the top of the lottery, sophmores-seniors had a better chance of being stars than freshmen. I want to agree with him, because it sounds good, and it sounds true. quote:6. The draft from 2006 to 2016 hasn’t changed that much. You might as well substitute Jaylen Brown for Rudy Gay, Buddy Hield and Grayson Allen for Adam Morrison and J. J. Redick, and Demetrius Jackson for Marcus Williams. And pencil in their failure or semi-moderate success. On the whole, the NBA hasn’t seemed to learn anything despite the growth in analytics and statistical analysis. Initiation skills or real defensive potential. If the player doesn’t have one or the other, why draft them? http://www.deepishthoughts.com/kaisers-draft-notes-iii/ I don't know where I'm going with this, but I think it's worth figuring into the draft matrix. Dejan Bimble fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Jun 11, 2016 |
# ? Jun 11, 2016 01:33 |
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# ? Mar 28, 2024 12:37 |
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I would wager $100 with someone that Deyonta Davis has more career WS than Marquese Chriss
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# ? Jun 11, 2016 02:14 |
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Dejan Bimble posted:Deyonta Davis's lack of bounce hurts his pnr finishing potential a bit, but he still looks like he could be a real late lottery value He seems to be basing his conclusions on the labels he throws on players years into their careers. It obviously makes sense to hunt down two-way players but the hard part about drafting is figuring out whose skills will translate.
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# ? Jun 11, 2016 02:17 |
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i really hate everything that 'deepish' thoughts guy says
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# ? Jun 11, 2016 02:23 |
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straight up brolic posted:i really hate everything that 'deepish' thoughts guy says Almost all of his points are beyond generic and can be dismissed with sample size. He's also up on guys he's down on. You could also say that the successful later lottery and beyond players were two way players because anyone who's successful in the NBA is a two way player. It's not an incredible insight to say that bigs who don't play defense are a big risk, that's NBA common sense. Wing players who don't play defense and can't create usually become valuable is also common sense. If the point is that players who don't play defense in college, aren't top 5 picks, and aren't pgs, don't become superstars, that's fair enough. It's also refining a field of hundreds to 7 people. The point that stars from later in the draft aren't freshman goes against the model based logic of younger = more improvement, and is worth saying.
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# ? Jun 11, 2016 04:00 |
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he somehow thinks marquese chriss will be good despite the fact that he's the definition of an 'offense only big'
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# ? Jun 11, 2016 04:02 |
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I'm not sure if stars is the right word but I do feel like smarter teams generally draft upperclassmen later in the draft. Not because more college seasons is the equivalent of spending that same amount of time in the NBA, but because they're more likely to get best value out of the rookie contract
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# ? Jun 11, 2016 04:02 |
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Dejan Bimble posted:Deyonta Davis's lack of bounce hurts his pnr finishing potential a bit, but he still looks like he could be a real late lottery value This is definitely interesting to me. I think a lot of the reasons that a lot of these guys finally develop when changing teams is because teams are financially incentivized to not bring back a player who doesn't look like a regular starter. So a guy llike Wes Johnson who needs 4 years of working with NBA level development to become passable, is going to have to go somewhere else to get that 4th year. I know from an anecdotal perspective, I feel like a player drafted late with experience tends to be more comfortable playing a role out of college, and that might be why they have more success. Also, it might be why the Spurs, and the Lakers when they were good, had success in the draft, because they are usually looking for someone to fill a role. Maybe it's the same for higher lottery players?
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# ? Jun 11, 2016 04:10 |
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straight up brolic posted:he somehow thinks marquese chriss will be good despite the fact that he's the definition of an 'offense only big' His combination of eyeball post hoc reasoning of draft fields doesn't mesh at all with his 'if every possible thing goes right' discussions of prospects. Really great athleticism is not an end in itself at players who aren't big enough to be centers. Offense only stretch fours who can finish are great, but bigs who don't defend are the sorts of players playoff losses and .500 teams are made of. There's no assurance his 3p% will hold up, either. It would be awesome if he panned out and became great, I wouldn't bet my favorite shirt on it. He's also down on Buddy Hield as a potential star because he doesn't initiate offense and doesn't project to be a great defender. I'd like to agree with him, because of all the stuff Hield doesn't do. I don't really want to doubt anyone who can shoot threes that well off the dribble since it opens up everything else. I think if he can improve his handle enough to consistently make space for himself, he 'll be a good player. Dejan Bimble fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Jun 11, 2016 |
# ? Jun 11, 2016 04:14 |
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i don't know what his stance on Murray is, but he initiates offense less than Hield and is a worse NBA level defender imo
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# ? Jun 11, 2016 04:24 |
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straight up brolic posted:i don't know what his stance on Murray is, but he initiates offense less than Hield and is a worse NBA level defender imo He really doesn't like Murray for those reasons, no defense, lack of ball skills. People wanted to compare him to Devin Booker, but Booker was a more versatile scorer, and longer.
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# ? Jun 11, 2016 04:28 |
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Rick posted:Lakers Ingram workout reportedly went well, but they usually do (Mudiay is the only one I can remember it being leaked that he played poorly). Top 40 here
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# ? Jun 11, 2016 07:37 |
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Next week should be when Simmons does private, team controlled workouts but I kind of get the feeling he isn't going to do those for some reason. Awesome, thank you. So at least according to that analytic, the talent really falls off for starters but stays pretty tight below that.
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# ? Jun 11, 2016 08:41 |
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wrote an article on the Bucks draft that features small profiles on Henry Ellenson (hate him), Skal Labissiere (could be a good fit for the bucks), Denzel Valentine (ditto), and Timothe Luwawu (love him) http://thesportsquotient.com/nba/2016/6/10/why-the-milwaukee-bucks-must-find-an-identity-in-the
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# ? Jun 11, 2016 22:39 |
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Nice article. Although I felt you should have mentioned the Bucks will most likely trade Monroe, with Portland and New Orleans the most often mentioned as partners.
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# ? Jun 12, 2016 01:09 |
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Hand Row posted:Nice article. Although I felt you should have mentioned the Bucks will most likely trade Monroe, with Portland and New Orleans the most often mentioned as partners.
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# ? Jun 12, 2016 01:15 |
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I think the general thought is plenty of teams have a ton of cap room but no one to sign so they would take him, especially with at most 2 years left on his contract. Every team needs a Kanter!
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# ? Jun 12, 2016 01:23 |
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Hand Row posted:I think the general thought is plenty of teams have a ton of cap room but no one to sign so they would take him, especially with at most 2 years left on his contract. Every team needs a Kanter! Kanter owns
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# ? Jun 12, 2016 01:38 |
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straight up brolic posted:I haven't heard anything about this beyond rumors. It would make a ton of sense (I obviously hate him) but I don't know what they could even get for him. I guess I could see him working in New Orleans. Monroe is a hopeful wish for people with a fetish with having native Louisianians on the team. He doesn't fit for any other reason.
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# ? Jun 12, 2016 03:29 |
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Kibner posted:Monroe is a hopeful wish for people with a fetish with having native Louisianians on the team. He doesn't fit for any other reason. What type of big men would be the best compliment to Davis in your opinion
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# ? Jun 12, 2016 03:34 |
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Metapod posted:What type of big men would be the best compliment to Davis in your opinion Someone who can defend the rim and bigs, rebound, and able to finish at an average level. e: Oh, and set hard screens.
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# ? Jun 12, 2016 03:53 |
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Kibner posted:Someone who can defend the rim and bigs, rebound, and able to finish at an average level. Sounds like gentry needs to unleash perk
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# ? Jun 12, 2016 04:14 |
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Metapod posted:Sounds like gentry needs to unleash perk Perk can't defend the more agile bigs anymore and isn't a good enough finisher. Maybe if you could somehow combine all three of Asik, Ajinca, and Perkins you would get the ideal non-max big to put next to Davis.
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# ? Jun 12, 2016 04:56 |
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straight up brolic posted:wrote an article on the Bucks draft that features small profiles on Henry Ellenson (hate him), Skal Labissiere (could be a good fit for the bucks), Denzel Valentine (ditto), and Timothe Luwawu (love him) Good stuff. What do you think about Cawcaw Mccaw? He's a bit intriguing as a second round pick. Here's Chad Ford's latest big board quote:Chad Ford NBA draft 2016 Big Board 9.0 - Ranking Ben Simmons, Brandon Ingram, Jamal Murray
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# ? Jun 12, 2016 22:01 |
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Seems consistent with what a lot of the guys on the internet with dubious claims of insidership are saying. If Simmons doesn't go #1 it's because of his refusal to do team-lead private workouts, but it probably won't stop him from going #1. There is a general thought that him refusing to work out hurts him with the Lakers more than the Sixers but they also wouldn't pass on him if given an opportunity unless somehow Ingram is also on the board (see: hilarious Sixers drafting Murray rumors).
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# ? Jun 12, 2016 22:09 |
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Thank you Bimble. l can't imagine Luwawu dropping out.
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# ? Jun 12, 2016 22:09 |
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Rick the Sixers are taking Simmons. It's not even close.
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# ? Jun 12, 2016 22:10 |
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Malik Beasley apparently taking meetings with the Magic. Seems a little high for him but I can also see them trading down, they've got a weird mishmash of players at this point and maybe don't need another project.
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# ? Jun 12, 2016 22:14 |
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RE: Hield When the hell did 6"5", 215 become undersized at the shooting guard position? Not every wing player is going to be 6'8" with a 7'4" wingspan.
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# ? Jun 12, 2016 22:17 |
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euphronius posted:Rick the Sixers are taking Simmons. It's not even close. I agree with your first sentence, your second sentence, not so much. They are at the very least trying to make Simmons think they're looking another way to get him to workout. At the most they are actually looking in other directions.
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# ? Jun 12, 2016 22:18 |
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Crazy Ted posted:RE: Hield For atleast my lifetime anything under 6'6" has been undersized for a sg
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# ? Jun 12, 2016 22:18 |
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Rick posted:I agree with your first sentence, your second sentence, not so much. They are at the very least trying to make Simmons think they're looking another way to get him to workout. At the most they are actually looking in other directions. No they are doing due diligence which they always said they would do. The night of the draft they said they would look at a couple guys. Plus it's I guess vaguely possible they could trade for 2 or 3. Every local beat writer and insider has said with out qualification it's Simmons and it's not close.
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# ? Jun 12, 2016 22:21 |
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Pelicans have considered kibners advice and now they have decided perry ellis will be Davis's partner in crime
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# ? Jun 12, 2016 22:26 |
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Due diligence is one thing. Trying to use the media to get across the idea that you're not convinced is another. The Lakers have looked at 10 players at #2, they aren't talking about them to the media.
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# ? Jun 12, 2016 22:30 |
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Metapod posted:For atleast my lifetime anything under 6'6" has been undersized for a sg
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# ? Jun 12, 2016 22:53 |
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Crazy Ted posted:I've always been under the impression that 6'4" with an average wingspan for that height has been the cutoff. Yeah, I always thought of "ideal" size as 6'2, 6'6, 6'9, 6'10, 7'
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# ? Jun 12, 2016 22:55 |
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now it's just 6'9 at every position
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# ? Jun 12, 2016 22:56 |
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straight up brolic posted:now it's just 6'9 at every position Nice
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# ? Jun 12, 2016 22:57 |
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If Eric Gordon and Bradley Beal can play SG, I think Hield will be okay.
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# ? Jun 12, 2016 22:58 |
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# ? Mar 28, 2024 12:37 |
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Blame Jordan (and then Kobe) for messing up what people expect out of height and length for SGs. Only Wade has really bucked the trend to being an "undersized" superstar SG.
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# ? Jun 12, 2016 23:20 |