Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

we're all black friends
Plaster Town Cop
Deyonta Davis's lack of bounce hurts his pnr finishing potential a bit, but he still looks like he could be a real late lottery value

Rick posted:

Manu needs a replacement.

But seriously, my thinking was that they could throw Chip Engelland at them like they did Kawhi. Especially with Dejounte who is being characterized as a guy who would be a top 5 pick if he could shoot.

Kaiser Lindemann wrote a few articles about the last decade of drafting, and found that all the true star players from the draft fit the criteria of being two way players if they weren't pgs, and that outside the top of the lottery, sophmores-seniors had a better chance of being stars than freshmen. I want to agree with him, because it sounds good, and it sounds true.

quote:

6. The draft from 2006 to 2016 hasn’t changed that much. You might as well substitute Jaylen Brown for Rudy Gay, Buddy Hield and Grayson Allen for Adam Morrison and J. J. Redick, and Demetrius Jackson for Marcus Williams. And pencil in their failure or semi-moderate success. On the whole, the NBA hasn’t seemed to learn anything despite the growth in analytics and statistical analysis. Initiation skills or real defensive potential. If the player doesn’t have one or the other, why draft them?
He also makes the point that unskilled highly athletic guards and forwards who eventually develop into decent players tend tochange teams before they do. Also seems true. It seems like the spurs draft more defense playing solid and unspectacular upperclassmen than anyone else.

http://www.deepishthoughts.com/kaisers-draft-notes-iii/

I don't know where I'm going with this, but I think it's worth figuring into the draft matrix.

Dejan Bimble fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Jun 11, 2016

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

straight up brolic
Jan 31, 2007

After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit

:homebrew::homebrew::homebrew:

I would wager $100 with someone that Deyonta Davis has more career WS than Marquese Chriss

morestuff
Aug 2, 2008

You can't stop what's coming

Dejan Bimble posted:

Deyonta Davis's lack of bounce hurts his pnr finishing potential a bit, but he still looks like he could be a real late lottery value


Kaiser Lindemann wrote a few articles about the last decade of drafting, and found that all the true star players from the draft fit the criteria of being two way players if they weren't pgs, and that outside the top of the lottery, sophmores-seniors had a better chance of being stars than freshmen. I want to agree with him, because it sounds good, and it sounds true.

He also makes the point that unskilled highly athletic guards and forwards who eventually develop into decent players tend tochange teams before they do. Also seems true. It seems like the spurs draft more defense playing solid and unspectacular upperclassmen than anyone else.

http://www.deepishthoughts.com/kaisers-draft-notes-iii/

I don't know where I'm going with this, but I think it's worth figuring into the draft matrix.

He seems to be basing his conclusions on the labels he throws on players years into their careers. It obviously makes sense to hunt down two-way players but the hard part about drafting is figuring out whose skills will translate.

straight up brolic
Jan 31, 2007

After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit

:homebrew::homebrew::homebrew:

i really hate everything that 'deepish' thoughts guy says

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

we're all black friends
Plaster Town Cop

straight up brolic posted:

i really hate everything that 'deepish' thoughts guy says

Almost all of his points are beyond generic and can be dismissed with sample size. He's also up on guys he's down on. You could also say that the successful later lottery and beyond players were two way players because anyone who's successful in the NBA is a two way player. It's not an incredible insight to say that bigs who don't play defense are a big risk, that's NBA common sense. Wing players who don't play defense and can't create usually become valuable is also common sense.

If the point is that players who don't play defense in college, aren't top 5 picks, and aren't pgs, don't become superstars, that's fair enough. It's also refining a field of hundreds to 7 people.

The point that stars from later in the draft aren't freshman goes against the model based logic of younger = more improvement, and is worth saying.

straight up brolic
Jan 31, 2007

After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit

:homebrew::homebrew::homebrew:

he somehow thinks marquese chriss will be good despite the fact that he's the definition of an 'offense only big'

chunkles
Aug 14, 2005

i am completely immersed in darkness
as i turn my body away from the sun
I'm not sure if stars is the right word but I do feel like smarter teams generally draft upperclassmen later in the draft. Not because more college seasons is the equivalent of spending that same amount of time in the NBA, but because they're more likely to get best value out of the rookie contract

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

Dejan Bimble posted:

Deyonta Davis's lack of bounce hurts his pnr finishing potential a bit, but he still looks like he could be a real late lottery value


Kaiser Lindemann wrote a few articles about the last decade of drafting, and found that all the true star players from the draft fit the criteria of being two way players if they weren't pgs, and that outside the top of the lottery, sophmores-seniors had a better chance of being stars than freshmen. I want to agree with him, because it sounds good, and it sounds true.

He also makes the point that unskilled highly athletic guards and forwards who eventually develop into decent players tend tochange teams before they do. Also seems true. It seems like the spurs draft more defense playing solid and unspectacular upperclassmen than anyone else.

http://www.deepishthoughts.com/kaisers-draft-notes-iii/

I don't know where I'm going with this, but I think it's worth figuring into the draft matrix.

This is definitely interesting to me. I think a lot of the reasons that a lot of these guys finally develop when changing teams is because teams are financially incentivized to not bring back a player who doesn't look like a regular starter. So a guy llike Wes Johnson who needs 4 years of working with NBA level development to become passable, is going to have to go somewhere else to get that 4th year.

I know from an anecdotal perspective, I feel like a player drafted late with experience tends to be more comfortable playing a role out of college, and that might be why they have more success. Also, it might be why the Spurs, and the Lakers when they were good, had success in the draft, because they are usually looking for someone to fill a role. Maybe it's the same for higher lottery players?

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

we're all black friends
Plaster Town Cop

straight up brolic posted:

he somehow thinks marquese chriss will be good despite the fact that he's the definition of an 'offense only big'

His combination of eyeball post hoc reasoning of draft fields doesn't mesh at all with his 'if every possible thing goes right' discussions of prospects.

Really great athleticism is not an end in itself at players who aren't big enough to be centers. Offense only stretch fours who can finish are great, but bigs who don't defend are the sorts of players playoff losses and .500 teams are made of. There's no assurance his 3p% will hold up, either. It would be awesome if he panned out and became great, I wouldn't bet my favorite shirt on it.

He's also down on Buddy Hield as a potential star because he doesn't initiate offense and doesn't project to be a great defender. I'd like to agree with him, because of all the stuff Hield doesn't do. I don't really want to doubt anyone who can shoot threes that well off the dribble since it opens up everything else. I think if he can improve his handle enough to consistently make space for himself, he 'll be a good player.

Dejan Bimble fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Jun 11, 2016

straight up brolic
Jan 31, 2007

After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit

:homebrew::homebrew::homebrew:

i don't know what his stance on Murray is, but he initiates offense less than Hield and is a worse NBA level defender imo

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

we're all black friends
Plaster Town Cop

straight up brolic posted:

i don't know what his stance on Murray is, but he initiates offense less than Hield and is a worse NBA level defender imo

He really doesn't like Murray for those reasons, no defense, lack of ball skills. People wanted to compare him to Devin Booker, but Booker was a more versatile scorer, and longer.

morestuff
Aug 2, 2008

You can't stop what's coming

Rick posted:

Lakers Ingram workout reportedly went well, but they usually do (Mudiay is the only one I can remember it being leaked that he played poorly).

--

ESPN posted a bit of the 538 projection (I guess they're calling it the ESPN projection model now) http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/119567/a-guide-for-espns-nba-draft-projection-model

We haven't had enough time really to see how good these are yet, despite ESPN's claim that it's effective, but it does project Simmons as probably the 4th best collegiate pick of the draft, with the highest bust potential of the guys they featured.

Hopefully they post more than the top 5 projections at some point.

Top 40 here



Rick
Feb 23, 2004
When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.
Next week should be when Simmons does private, team controlled workouts but I kind of get the feeling he isn't going to do those for some reason.


Awesome, thank you. So at least according to that analytic, the talent really falls off for starters but stays pretty tight below that.

straight up brolic
Jan 31, 2007

After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit

:homebrew::homebrew::homebrew:

wrote an article on the Bucks draft that features small profiles on Henry Ellenson (hate him), Skal Labissiere (could be a good fit for the bucks), Denzel Valentine (ditto), and Timothe Luwawu (love him)


http://thesportsquotient.com/nba/2016/6/10/why-the-milwaukee-bucks-must-find-an-identity-in-the

Hand Row
May 28, 2001
Nice article. Although I felt you should have mentioned the Bucks will most likely trade Monroe, with Portland and New Orleans the most often mentioned as partners.

straight up brolic
Jan 31, 2007

After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit

:homebrew::homebrew::homebrew:

Hand Row posted:

Nice article. Although I felt you should have mentioned the Bucks will most likely trade Monroe, with Portland and New Orleans the most often mentioned as partners.
I haven't heard anything about this beyond rumors. It would make a ton of sense (I obviously hate him) but I don't know what they could even get for him. I guess I could see him working in New Orleans.

Hand Row
May 28, 2001
I think the general thought is plenty of teams have a ton of cap room but no one to sign so they would take him, especially with at most 2 years left on his contract. Every team needs a Kanter!

Metapod
Mar 18, 2012

Hand Row posted:

I think the general thought is plenty of teams have a ton of cap room but no one to sign so they would take him, especially with at most 2 years left on his contract. Every team needs a Kanter!

Kanter owns

Kibner
Oct 21, 2008

#1 Pelican Fan

straight up brolic posted:

I haven't heard anything about this beyond rumors. It would make a ton of sense (I obviously hate him) but I don't know what they could even get for him. I guess I could see him working in New Orleans.

Monroe is a hopeful wish for people with a fetish with having native Louisianians on the team. He doesn't fit for any other reason.

Metapod
Mar 18, 2012

Kibner posted:

Monroe is a hopeful wish for people with a fetish with having native Louisianians on the team. He doesn't fit for any other reason.

What type of big men would be the best compliment to Davis in your opinion

Kibner
Oct 21, 2008

#1 Pelican Fan

Metapod posted:

What type of big men would be the best compliment to Davis in your opinion

Someone who can defend the rim and bigs, rebound, and able to finish at an average level.

e: Oh, and set hard screens.

Metapod
Mar 18, 2012

Kibner posted:

Someone who can defend the rim and bigs, rebound, and able to finish at an average level.

e: Oh, and set hard screens.

Sounds like gentry needs to unleash perk

Kibner
Oct 21, 2008

#1 Pelican Fan

Metapod posted:

Sounds like gentry needs to unleash perk

Perk can't defend the more agile bigs anymore and isn't a good enough finisher. Maybe if you could somehow combine all three of Asik, Ajinca, and Perkins you would get the ideal non-max big to put next to Davis.

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

we're all black friends
Plaster Town Cop

straight up brolic posted:

wrote an article on the Bucks draft that features small profiles on Henry Ellenson (hate him), Skal Labissiere (could be a good fit for the bucks), Denzel Valentine (ditto), and Timothe Luwawu (love him)


http://thesportsquotient.com/nba/2016/6/10/why-the-milwaukee-bucks-must-find-an-identity-in-the

Good stuff. What do you think about Cawcaw Mccaw? He's a bit intriguing as a second round pick.


Here's Chad Ford's latest big board

quote:

Chad Ford NBA draft 2016 Big Board 9.0 - Ranking Ben Simmons, Brandon Ingram, Jamal Murray
by Chad Ford on 0006-06-02 14:20:03 UTC (original: http://espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/15992819/chad-ford-nba-draft-2016-big-board-90-ranking-ben-simmons-brandon-ingram-jamal-murray)

How is the new top 30 shaping up?

Our board has the latest intel on how NBA teams see the top draft prospects, based on conversations with general managers and scouts.


With less than three weeks to go before the draft, it is still a challenge to come up with a consensus ranking. Teams remain all over the place on their respective boards.

Draft workouts and interviews are in full swing. Although performance on the court can have a small effect on a player's final rating on each team's draft board, it's the performance in interviews that often seals the deal.

Here are the latest draft prospect rankings:

1. Ben Simmons
Previous rank: No. 1
LSU
Freshman
Forward

Simmons has spent the past two months out of the spotlight working on his game in Cleveland. The no-distractions move appears to be paying off.

I was in Cleveland last week at one of his private workouts. He has added strength, improved his jump shot and worked hard to prepare for summer league.

The Sixers remain very high on Simmons even though he hasn't given them (or anyone else) the chance to work him out. If the draft were held today, he'd be Philly's choice.

2. Brandon Ingram
Previous rank: No. 2
Duke
Freshman
Forward

Ingram has been in New York working out in preparation for the draft.

When I caught up with him right before the lottery, I was really impressed with how his jumper was coming along. The transition from the college 3 to the NBA line is often challenging, but Ingram seems to be making the move effortlessly.
His physique is still a major work in progress, though. He's a wiry kind of strong but clearly needs to continue to fill out.

While there appears to be a gap between him and Simmons for the No. 1 pick, if Simmons continues to refuse to work out in front of scouts, a switch is possible. Much more likely, though, Ingram will go No. 2 to the Lakers. From what I can gather, Simmons and Ingram are the only two guys on their board.

3. Jamal Murray
Previous rank: No. 3
Kentucky
Freshman
Guard

Murray brings two things to the table that NBA teams are really looking for: shooting (and he was absolutely lights-out shooting the NBA 3 in a workout I saw in New York) and positional versatility. More and more coaches want players whom they can plug and play at different positions, and most teams feel confident that Murray can play and excel at both the 1 and the 2.
His age (19) and that versatility give him the slightest of nods over Kris Dunn. He should end up in the No. 3-8 range. The Celtics, Wolves, Pelicans and Kings have the most interest.
4. Kris Dunn
Previous rank: No. 4
Providence
Junior
Guard

Dunn really ranks as 3B on our Big Board. Although Murray brings shooting and versatility, Dunn's athleticism, defensive ability and floor vision make him the favorite of teams that want an instant-impact point guard who can lock down other opponents and run a team.

His so-so jump shot, lack of aggressiveness scoring and age (22) are his biggest question marks. He's in the same No. 3-8 range as Murray, and the same teams -- Celtics, Wolves, Pelicans and Kings -- are the most likely destinations.

5. Dragan Bender
Previous rank: No. 5
Croatia
Age: 18
Forward/center

Teams have been traveling to Tel Aviv, Israel, to catch Bender and are hoping that he'll get over to the U.S. for at least a week to conduct workouts here.

While his play in games has been sporadic, the chance to see him in practice and workouts abroad has been telling. Some are convinced he's the third-best player in the draft. Others feel like he's a pretty big gamble when there are, in their opinion, more proven American players on the board.

He could go as high as No. 3 and as low as No. 9. The Celtics, Suns, Wolves, Pelicans, Nuggets, Kings and Raptors all have interest.

6. Marquese Chriss

Previous rank: No. 8
Washington
Freshman
Forward

Chriss has been in our top eight for the past few months. His combination of size, athleticism, shooting ability and shot blocking is rare.

While he's still a major work in progress, the upside makes him incredibly attractive to teams outside the top two trying to hit a home run in this draft. The Celtics, Suns, Wolves, Pelicans, Nuggets, Kings and Raptors all have strong interest, putting his range at No. 3-9.

7. Buddy Hield
Previous rank: No. 6
Oklahoma
Senior
Guard

Hield may be the best shooter in the draft, but the shine from his terrific senior season is beginning to wear off slightly as teams come to grip with the idea that he's undersized (6-foot-5, 212 pounds), he's not an elite athlete and he may be a bit one-dimensional. Upside is so valuable in the top five, and while Hield possesses enormous talent, most teams don't see a lot of upside left for the 22-year-old.

His range probably starts at the Wolves at No. 5. The Pelicans have strong interest at No. 6, and I don't think he'll slide past the Kings at No. 8.

8. Jaylen Brown
Previous rank: No. 10
Cal
Freshman
Forward

Brown's quirky personality hasn't done his draft stock any favors. Nor did his play on the court at the end of the season for Cal.

But he's starting to rise a bit now in workouts as teams realize that his athleticism and NBA-ready body could give him more upside than most of the players who will be left on the board.

If his game can catch up to his physical tools, he'll be very difficult to handle in the NBA. That's a big if, but it's a bet that some teams may be inclined to make.

Brown has the widest range in our top 10. He could go as high as No. 3 or slip into the teens. The Celtics, Suns, Pelicans, Nuggets and Kings will all give him looks in the top 10.

9. Dejounte Murray
Previous rank: No. 19
Washington
Freshman
Guard

Murray would be the biggest gamble in our top 10, but every time you watch him play, he seems worth it.

He's a tough guard with elite size for the position who can get to the basket with a quick first step. He also sees the floor well. His lack of a consistent jump shot and a high turnover rate are the only things keeping him from passing Dunn on our board.

But the race gets much closer when you watch tape of Dunn at 19 and Murray at 19, as scouts are doing now. Murray is significantly better than Dunn was at the same age. He has the most upside of any point guard in the draft.

He's now in the No. 8-17 range. The Kings, Bucks, Jazz, Bulls or Grizzlies seem like his most likely destination on draft night.

10. Domantas Sabonis

Previous rank: No. 15
Gonzaga
Sophomore
Forward

Sabonis really helped his cause at a pro day in Los Angeles two weeks ago. Allowed to show skills outside Gonzaga's structured offense, Sabonis did two things that really sold scouts -- he shot it very well from beyond the arc (a shot he rarely took in college) and showed off some explosiveness athletically. Those are the two biggest knocks on Sabonis' game. If he can improve those, he should be a terrific pick.

Based on my conversation with teams in Las Vegas, he's looking more and more like a lottery pick, starting as high as the Kings at No. 8, the Raptors at No. 9, the Bucks at No. 10 and the Magic at No. 11. The Suns at No. 13 and Bulls at No. 14 are also possibilities in the late lottery.

In the middle of the first round, the Celtics, Grizzlies, Pistons and Pacers all seem like potential homes. Look for him to land in the No. 8-20 range.

11. Henry Ellenson
Previous rank: No. 7
Marquette
Freshman
Forward/center

Ellenson's ability to stretch the floor at his size brings major appeal, although scouts openly question just how great a shooter he really is.

He shot the ball extremely well at a workout that I saw last week, and his midrange game is the best among the stretch 4s in the draft.

His lack of explosive athleticism limits his upside somewhat, but Ellenson has the tools to be a terrific NBA stretch big.

The Wolves, Pelicans, Raptors, Bucks and Magic are all possible landing spots for him.

12. Jakob Poeltl
Previous rank: No. 9
Utah
Sophomore
Center

Poeltl is the best center prospect in the draft, although in an era of small ball, that doesn't mean as much as it used to.

He's very skilled, but his lack of strength and questions about his ability to stretch the floor limit teams' enthusiasm.

He has a pretty narrow draft range of No. 9-13, with the Raptors, Bucks, Magic, Jazz and Suns all showing interest.

13. Skal Labissiere
Previous rank: No. 15
Kentucky
Freshman
Center/forward

Labissiere is doing his best to shake off a very rocky freshman season at Kentucky. He generally played to positive reviews in a workout for scouts this past weekend.

His ability to shoot the ball and play in the paint makes him a very attractive option for a team that's willing to take a risk.

Whether he has the toughness or feel for the game to be a meaningful contributor in the NBA is very much up for debate. But at this point in the draft, he's probably worth the risk.

The Nuggets, Raptors, Bucks, Magic, Jazz and Suns are all showing interest, putting him in the No. 7-13 range.

14. Furkan Korkmaz
Previous rank: No. 12
Turkey
Age: 18
Guard

Korkmaz remains the consensus second-best international prospect in the draft behind Bender. His shooting ability and international experience at Efes make him an attractive option. So does the flexibility that comes with being able to either stash him or bring him over this year.

The Kings, Raptors, Bucks, Jazz, Suns, Nuggets and Celtics are all looking at him. If he can't get a commitment in that range, though, he could pull out of this year's draft and try again next year.

15. Malachi Richardson
Previous rank: No. 13
Syracuse
Freshman
Guard

Richardson drew very positive reviews from scouts in a big workout in Las Vegas for multiple NBA teams on Tuesday. He has terrific size for his position, a quick first step and he really shot the ball well from 3 in the workout.

The consensus really starts to break down when you get to this point in the draft, leaving a lot of doubt around players like Richardson who aren't surefire lottery picks.

Teams as high as the Jazz at No. 12, Suns at No. 13, Celtics at No. 16 and Pacers at No. 20 are interested in him. The Sixers have a lot of interest with both their No. 24 and No. 26 picks if he slides.

16. Deyonta Davis
Previous rank: No. 16
Michigan State
Freshman
Forward

Davis has all the physical tools to be a terrific low-post defender in the NBA. Does he have the offensive tools to make him a lottery pick? That's the question right now.

Again, it depends on whom you ask. The Magic, Suns and Bulls all have interest in the late lottery. But he could also slide into the 20s, where teams like the Hawks and Celtics could grab him.

17. Malik Beasley
Previous rank: No. 18
Florida State
Freshman
Guard

Beasley is crossing his fingers that in a league that's hungry for elite shooters, teams will look past the fact that he's undersized (6-foot-4.5, 190 pounds) for a 2-guard and focus on his deep range and athleticism.

Working against him? He just had surgery three weeks ago to repair a stress fracture in his right leg. While he was able to do shooting drills at a workout in Vegas on Tuesday, he won't be able to play against other prospects before the draft and may not be ready for full 5-on-5 until training camp. That might hurt him a bit on draft night. If he falls, there's the reason.

Because every team needs shooting, it's hard to say who isn't interested. The Bucks at No. 10, Jazz at No. 12, Bulls at No. 14, Celtics at No. 16 and Grizzlies at No. 17 are on the high end. The Hornets at No. 22 and Sixers at No. 24 round out the low end.

That's a range of No. 10-24, which sums up the parity of the draft right now.

18. Wade Baldwin IV
Previous rank: No. 20
Vanderbilt
Sophomore
Guard

Baldwin is already starting to receive some positive reviews in workouts. He has elite size, length and strength. He's a good shooter and athlete. It's his on-court decision-making and leadership at the point that are issues.

His ceiling is probably the Jazz at No. 12 or the Bulls at No. 14, with a floor that dips all the way into the mid-20s with the Clippers.

19. Thon Maker
Previous rank: No. 24
Australia
Age: 19
Forward

Maker is the biggest mystery in the draft. He drew strong reviews from teams at a group workout in New York a couple of weeks ago, and the skepticism about him seems to be waning, especially among teams that think his long-term position in the NBA is the 5.

Finding his draft range right now is challenging. There's a lot of interest, but few teams are willing to commit.

The Bucks are probably his ceiling at No. 10. Then, every team that has multiple first-rounders -- Phoenix, Denver, Boston and Philly -- is a good possibility. Detroit is another dark horse for Maker. The Pistons feel like they're in a position to take a swing at someone with major upside at No. 18.

No. 10 to the second round seems like a huge range, but it's where Maker stands.

20. DeAndre Bembry
Previous rank: No. 21
St. Joseph's
Junior
Guard/forward

Bembry continues to draw praise from every team that sees him. In a draft filled with "potential," there are few players who can actually play the game as well as he can.

And the more teams watch the playoffs, the more passing becomes a coveted skill. Next to Simmons, he's the best passing non-point guard in the draft.

Scraped at insider2text.xyz, brought to you by HeheStreams — No Bullshit

The Jazz, Suns, Bulls, Celtics, Grizzlies, Nuggets, Hawks and Clippers appear to be the most interested suitors, putting him in the No. 12-25 range.

21. Ante Zizic
Previous rank: No. 22
Croatia
Age: 19
Center

Zizic has a couple of things working in his favor. One, he's having a great season for Cibona in the Croatian league, averaging 17.7 PPG, 10.2 RPG and 1.3 BPG in 28 MPG. Two, there are four teams with multiple first-round picks in the draft.

If they can't trade them, draft-and-stash is a very good alternative. That puts the Suns, Nuggets, Celtics and Raptors as likely candidates in the No. 13-27 range.

22. Denzel Valentine
Previous rank: No. 14
Michigan State
Senior
Forward/guard

Valentine has been flirting with being a late lottery selection for the past few months, but there seems to be a slight cooling effect lately as teams start to get more excited by the idea of upside than they are by Valentine's proven ability.

The Jazz, Suns and Bulls all like him in the late lottery. But if he slid to the Pistons at No. 18, Pacers at No. 20, Hawks at No. 21 or Hornets at No. 22, it wouldn't shock me.

23. Tyler Ulis
Previous rank: No. 17
Kentucky
Sophomore
Guard

I'm a huge Ulis fan, but the number of teams willing to draft him in the late lottery to mid-first round seems to be shrinking as upside triumphs production at this stage of the draft.

Ulis has also suffered from the workout process, as many pass-first point guards do. It's not ideal for a player like him who thrives in real 5-on-5 action.

The Bulls at No. 14, Pistons at No. 18, Pacers at No. 20, Sixers at No. 24 and Clippers at No. 25 appear to be the best fits.

24. Damian Jones
Previous rank: N/A
Vanderbilt
Junior
Center

Jones looks the part of an NBA lottery pick. Blessed with size and elite athleticism, he could easily end up going that high.

But teams worry about his lack of production at Vanderbilt -- combined with a reputation of being almost too nice.

The Bulls at No. 14, Celtics at No. 16, Hawks at No. 21, Celtics at No. 23 and Warriors at No. 30 seem like the best bets for him.

25. Ivica Zubac
Previous rank: No. 25
Bosnia
Age: 19
Center

Zubac has a lot of fans, and on some boards he's ahead of Zizic among centers.

Zubac's offensive potential at his size is his biggest appeal.

The Bulls at No. 14, Grizzlies at No. 17, Hawks at No. 21, Celtics at No. 23 and Spurs at No. 29 are all possibilities.

26. Demetrius Jackson
Previous rank: No. 23
Notre Dame
Junior
Guard

Jackson continues the trend of prospects who could go in the late lottery or in the late first round.

His athleticism, ability to play at both ends of the floor and toughness all bring major appeal, although his lack of size and aggressiveness offensively hurts him somewhat.

The Bulls at No. 14, Grizzlies at No. 17, Pistons at No. 18, Hornets at No. 22, Sixers at No. 24 and Clippers at No. 25 are all in the picture.

27. Cheick Diallo
Previous rank: No. 28
Kansas
Freshman
Forward

Diallo is really hard to place right now and may make a major jump leading up to the draft. He was originally No. 10 on our Big Board in July. After not getting real minutes at Kansas this year, he's helped himself a lot in workouts over the past few weeks.

His motor and athleticism are great for a big his size, and he's showing more and more potential offensively.

The Celtics at No. 16 and No. 23, Pistons at No. 18, Hawks at No. 21 and Raptors at No. 27 all are potential spots for him.

28. Juan Hernangomez
Previous rank: No. 29
Spain
Age: 20
Forward

Hernangomez impressed NBA teams with a workout in Florida over the weekend.

Since so many teams with multiple picks, draft-and-stash guys are going to be very popular in the 20s and Hernangomez's ability to stretch the floor makes him worthy of a first-round selection.

29. Ben Bentil
Previous rank: No. 26
Providence
Sophomore
Forward

Bentil's ability to stretch the floor and score anywhere is a major plus for him. He's a bit undersized and may try to shoot too much, but there just aren't that many players with his offensive polish and size in the draft.

Between the Pistons at No. 18, Celtics at No. 23, Raptors at No. 27, Suns at No. 28, Spurs at No. 29 and Warriors at No. 30, one could call his name on draft night.

30. Guerschon Yabusele
Previous rank: N/A
France
Age: 20
Forward

Yabusele has been really good in workouts, and with so many teams in the late teens and 20s looking to stash picks, he has a really good shot at the first round. Players with his strength, athleticism and skill are hard to come by.

The Nuggets at No. 19, Celtics at No. 23, Sixers at No. 24 and No. 26, Raptors at No. 27, Spurs at No. 29 and Warriors at No. 30 could all grab him in the first round.

Next five in
Patrick McCaw, G/F, So., UNLV; Diamond Stone, C, Fr., Maryland; Timothe Luwawu, G/F, France; Taurean Prince, F, Sr., Baylor; Chinanu Onuaku, C, So., Louisville

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.
Seems consistent with what a lot of the guys on the internet with dubious claims of insidership are saying. If Simmons doesn't go #1 it's because of his refusal to do team-lead private workouts, but it probably won't stop him from going #1. There is a general thought that him refusing to work out hurts him with the Lakers more than the Sixers but they also wouldn't pass on him if given an opportunity unless somehow Ingram is also on the board (see: hilarious Sixers drafting Murray rumors).

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

Thank you Bimble.

l can't imagine Luwawu dropping out.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

Rick the Sixers are taking Simmons. It's not even close.

morestuff
Aug 2, 2008

You can't stop what's coming
Malik Beasley apparently taking meetings with the Magic. Seems a little high for him but I can also see them trading down, they've got a weird mishmash of players at this point and maybe don't need another project.

Crazy Ted
Jul 29, 2003

RE: Hield

When the hell did 6"5", 215 become undersized at the shooting guard position? Not every wing player is going to be 6'8" with a 7'4" wingspan.

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

euphronius posted:

Rick the Sixers are taking Simmons. It's not even close.

I agree with your first sentence, your second sentence, not so much. They are at the very least trying to make Simmons think they're looking another way to get him to workout. At the most they are actually looking in other directions.

Metapod
Mar 18, 2012

Crazy Ted posted:

RE: Hield

When the hell did 6"5", 215 become undersized at the shooting guard position? Not every wing player is going to be 6'8" with a 7'4" wingspan.

For atleast my lifetime anything under 6'6" has been undersized for a sg

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

Rick posted:

I agree with your first sentence, your second sentence, not so much. They are at the very least trying to make Simmons think they're looking another way to get him to workout. At the most they are actually looking in other directions.

No they are doing due diligence which they always said they would do. The night of the draft they said they would look at a couple guys.

Plus it's I guess vaguely possible they could trade for 2 or 3.

Every local beat writer and insider has said with out qualification it's Simmons and it's not close.

Metapod
Mar 18, 2012
Pelicans have considered kibners advice and now they have decided perry ellis will be Davis's partner in crime

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.
Due diligence is one thing. Trying to use the media to get across the idea that you're not convinced is another. The Lakers have looked at 10 players at #2, they aren't talking about them to the media.

Crazy Ted
Jul 29, 2003

Metapod posted:

For atleast my lifetime anything under 6'6" has been undersized for a sg
I've always been under the impression that 6'4" with an average wingspan for that height has been the cutoff.

morestuff
Aug 2, 2008

You can't stop what's coming

Crazy Ted posted:

I've always been under the impression that 6'4" with an average wingspan for that height has been the cutoff.

Yeah, I always thought of "ideal" size as 6'2, 6'6, 6'9, 6'10, 7'

straight up brolic
Jan 31, 2007

After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit

:homebrew::homebrew::homebrew:

now it's just 6'9 at every position

Metapod
Mar 18, 2012

straight up brolic posted:

now it's just 6'9 at every position

Nice

Redgrendel2001
Sep 1, 2006

you literally think a person saying their NBA team of choice being better than the fucking 76ers is a 'schtick'

a literal thing you think.

If Eric Gordon and Bradley Beal can play SG, I think Hield will be okay.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Kibner
Oct 21, 2008

#1 Pelican Fan
Blame Jordan (and then Kobe) for messing up what people expect out of height and length for SGs. Only Wade has really bucked the trend to being an "undersized" superstar SG.

  • Locked thread