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So as Chaos do you only get replenishment from sacking/awakening? The encampment stance says it provides replenishment like it does for every other race but I'm not getting it.
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Jun 14, 2016 04:25
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Decus posted:edit: wait, what, if I'm reading this right apparently the black coach can only collide with 3 targets max? It's the same value as any other chariot though the steamtank has a 4 there. Not sure what that number actually, actually means since it can't mean 3 mens I don't think. Unless it's 3 on the lowest unit size? Though every other value that means number of men traditionally is based off of ultra sizes. It means they can punch through 3 rows of infantry. If a unit has 4 rows it will stop when it hits the 4th row, get surrounded, and die. Edit: Coincidentally, this is also why I make sure my units have at least 4 rows. It makes them invincible to chariots. McGavin fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Jun 14, 2016 |
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Jun 14, 2016 04:27
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Nasgate posted:I've always killed the dwarf hold by turn 8, and you should be deep enough into norscan territory that kislev won't bother you yourself. They might gently caress your first tribe but that's whatever. i'm curious how. like, seriously, i feel retarded, i need step by step instructions. what always happens is i flip the bearsonlings, head up, sack that other skraeling city, then head to the dwarf lands and then they have their doomstack sit in it staring at me behind their walls and if i try to attack they gently caress me and if i try to just run past them they either catch me in the open and cripple my army (although without their garrison i can usually beat them) or march directly into the other city's garrison. i can deal with them with chaos warriors but that's a ways away since i have to upgrade my army a bunch to recruit them in enough numbers to deal, and by then the other skraelings will have rolled through them and start hitting me with their own doomstacks President Ark fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Jun 14, 2016 |
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Jun 14, 2016 04:31
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Yeah, I'm guessing Cairn Wraiths really are better in multiplayer where you'd actually have to worry about cost and where terror isn't competing against the AI having +10 base leadership + veterancy bonuses. Do you keep them bunched up for movement and then spread their file out before a charge? McGavin posted:It means they can punch through 3 rows of infantry. If a unit has 4 rows it will stop when it hits the 4th row, get surrounded, and die. Aha, that makes much more sense. The issue with the black coach getting stuck must be from another value I found elsewhere--they have a timer for how long a unit ignores collisions after a charge in order to get out and re-charge and currently it seems to be zero.
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Jun 14, 2016 04:34
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Captain Beans posted:Don't use wraiths as infantry to fight other units in brawls. They are spooky ghosts so you must use them in a spooky manner (they are one of the cheapest units causing terror). Engage stuff from the front with skellymans and deploy wraiths to where ever enemy moral is lowest, terror can cause routs at 1/4 moral even for high leadership units. Make sure your skeletons, bats or zombie dogs chase the terror routed unit so they can't recover then move your spooky wraiths over to haunt some new friends. In quick battle I usually include 3-4 wraiths as VC. I dunno man. Taking a very low dps unit with terrible charge bonus and that's pretty bad in combat to be your flanker just because it has terror does not seem ideal. They're still moderately pricey too. I'm sure you can make it work, but I think you'd be better off with cav or some crypt horrors. Maybe a varghulf or a terrorgheist which also inflict terror. They may have issues in a straight up fight against anti-large, but wraiths have issues in a straight up fight against almost everything and get unbelievably owned by non-physical damage.
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Jun 14, 2016 04:43
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Vargs posted:I dunno man. Taking a very low dps unit with terrible charge bonus and that's pretty bad in combat to be your flanker just because it has terror does not seem ideal. They're still moderately pricey too. I'm sure you can make it work, but I think you'd be better off with cav or some crypt horrors. Maybe a varghulf or a terrorgheist which also inflict terror. They may have issues in a straight up fight against anti-large, but wraiths have issues in a straight up fight against almost everything and get unbelievably owned by non-physical damage. The thing with vargulf and to a lesser extent the terrorgheist is that they straight beat things with anti-large that they should lose to because cycle charging is amazing combined with free regen. The ai loves to spam slayers as the dwarves but my large monsters only army can still win without casualties easily because they couldn't close and force my units to stick in melee. When you bring those two units to compare to wraiths, it's just not really fair.
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Jun 14, 2016 05:00
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Deified Data posted:So as Chaos do you only get replenishment from sacking/awakening? The encampment stance says it provides replenishment like it does for every other race but I'm not getting it. Encampment does give you replenishment, but it's pretty slow. Are you in some kind of terrain that gives you attrition or have stacks close enough together to trigger infighting? That might cancel it out.
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Jun 14, 2016 05:06
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WarpedLichen posted:The thing with vargulf and to a lesser extent the terrorgheist is that they straight beat things with anti-large that they should lose to because cycle charging is amazing combined with free regen. The ai loves to spam slayers as the dwarves but my large monsters only army can still win without casualties easily because they couldn't close and force my units to stick in melee. When you bring those two units to compare to wraiths, it's just not really fair. It's not fair to compare one unit to others that fill a similar role because the others are better at it?
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Jun 14, 2016 05:09
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Vargulfs and Terrorgheists are just a bit more expensive than wraiths.
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Jun 14, 2016 05:11
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wiegieman posted:Vargulfs and Terrorgheists are just a bit more expensive than wraiths.
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Jun 14, 2016 05:22
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Wafflecopper posted:It's not fair to compare one unit to others that fill a similar role because the others are better at it? I don't think it's fair to compare anything to things as broken awesome as varghulf/terrogeist. I don't think it's fair that any unit gets to do this to its counter (varghulf started with 0 exp, never fought with the lord): 
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Jun 14, 2016 05:31
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Pornographic Memory posted:Encampment does give you replenishment, but it's pretty slow. Are you in some kind of terrain that gives you attrition or have stacks close enough together to trigger infighting? That might cancel it out. Yep infighting was the culprit, seems the attrition from that cancels replenishment entirely. Maybe I'll see if I get lucky with a single horde of 20 for now.
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Jun 14, 2016 05:33
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So, armies in forced March should not deny the area around them in movement. Got stuck behind marching orcs in a valley and since I couldn't get around them they could reach my settlements before I could and raze them, marching out of my normal stance reach.
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Jun 14, 2016 05:37
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WarpedLichen posted:I don't think it's fair to compare anything to things as broken awesome as varghulf/terrogeist. This is definitely a bit much. Wonder how big a factor regeneration is in those results.
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Jun 14, 2016 05:40
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WarpedLichen posted:I don't think it's fair to compare anything to things as broken awesome as varghulf/terrogeist. But ultimately, broken or not, you have a choice (assuming you have sufficient money) of which unit to use to fill the linebreaking flanker role in your army. In order to choose you have to compare the units which might fill that role. Fair has nothing to do with it unless you're playing some kind of self-imposed challenge rules.
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Jun 14, 2016 05:42
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Reik posted:So, armies in forced March should not deny the area around them in movement. Got stuck behind marching orcs in a valley and since I couldn't get around them they could reach my settlements before I could and raze them, marching out of my normal stance reach. e: Without agents.
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Jun 14, 2016 05:43
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wiegieman posted:I've found that Vargulf leadership literally does not matter because they win every fight they're in unless it's elite dedicated anti large like demigryph helberds or something. And it regens as long as it isn't crumbling.
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Jun 14, 2016 05:44
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So are there just some settlements that can't be awakened? The first city I came across I was able to sack and then awaken, but the next Varg city I found only let me sack.
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Jun 14, 2016 05:52
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Dandywalken posted:This is definitely a bit much. Wonder how big a factor regeneration is in those results. Whole fight took around 20 minutes game time so it saved the varghulf a ton of health. The biggest factor was the enemy lord was using foe seeker and the aoe buff on the slayers. Each time you try to cycle charge them with the buff on the varghulf eats around 200 return damage. Wafflecopper posted:But ultimately, broken or not, you have a choice (assuming you have sufficient money) of which unit to use to fill the linebreaking flanker role in your army. In order to choose you have to compare the units which might fill that role. Fair has nothing to do with it unless you're playing some kind of self-imposed challenge rules. Given a choice you would never use anything non varghulf or terrorgeist in your vampire count army. There's no reason to bring anything else because vamps have no ability to bring balanced armies. But given the tech constraints, I don't think it's really fair to compare them the same reason you can't empire knights to demigryph knights on a pure cost basis either.
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Jun 14, 2016 05:54
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As VC I have a pretty good mix between armies but the Monster armies (even the non Mannfred+Dragon one) feel like easy mode compared to the Wraith-heavy army where I need to actually use my brain to win. On the other hand Drakenhof is the only province I've been able to build the full tech tree for Varghulf + Terrorgheist and have anything else going on. Wraiths I can stand up as easily as Graveguard if I plan for them, but then again I can get loving Crypt Horrors out of even a minor region. Deified Data posted:So are there just some settlements that can't be awakened? The first city I came across I was able to sack and then awaken, but the next Varg city I found only let me sack. Shumagorath fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Jun 14, 2016 |
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Jun 14, 2016 06:01
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Shumagorath posted:As VC I have a pretty good mix between armies but the Monster armies (even the non Mannfred+Dragon one) feel like easy mode compared to the Wraith-heavy army where I need to actually use my brain to win. On the other hand Drakenhof is the only province I've been able to build the full tech tree for Varghulf + Terrorgheist and have anything else going on. Wraiths I can stand up as easily as Graveguard if I plan for them, but then again I can get loving Crypt Horrors out of even a minor region. Is there a list of these cities anywhere?
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Jun 14, 2016 06:25
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Note that auto resolve accounts for speed. So fast units (your monsters) will ram right into the enemy and grind against them and take massive damage before the slow poo poo shows up. However as vc, why are you not having your lords and heros do literally everything? The only difficulty I have found is getting those huge casuality battle to produce the body piles for better recruitment... then I just started looting and occupying and letting rebellions of vc units build up then brutally murdering THOSE for the bonuses. But if you get a good battle site or multiples (they stack!) you can easily recruit a full army of good units in one turn from nothing. for example on 1.5k Spawn lord, raise 1 black cav with barding 4 ghouls 1 horrors 2 wraiths 3 grave guard 1 vargheists and some spear skeletons for filling out and because I do not like wolves and bats. Apparently military buildings in the region will change your stuff. I mostly use chaff, if they crumble I literally go "eh" and keep killing poo poo with the vamp lord who is amazing on cycle charges into flanks at whim because if he get stuck? WELP regenerating hp in melee and I got magic if I ever take any damage. course mannfred is just entirely his own insane thing as he can solo entire full armies
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Jun 14, 2016 06:30
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Shumagorath posted:You had vamp generals around long enough to get Vargheists? A while back, but yeah. I tech directly to Vargheists and the green vamp guys ended up being my bros for a little bit while I killed some Empire dudes. When i eventually killed them I got to snipe their lord. Also, sometimes you get to kill rebellious armies like that, too.
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Jun 14, 2016 06:37
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President Ark posted:i'm curious how. like, seriously, i feel retarded, i need step by step instructions. what always happens is i flip the bearsonlings, head up, sack that other skraeling city, then head to the dwarf lands and then they have their doomstack sit in it staring at me behind their walls and if i try to attack they gently caress me and if i try to just run past them they either catch me in the open and cripple my army (although without their garrison i can usually beat them) or march directly into the other city's garrison. i can deal with them with chaos warriors but that's a ways away since i have to upgrade my army a bunch to recruit them in enough numbers to deal, and by then the other skraelings will have rolled through them and start hitting me with their own doomstacks Basically there are 3 options. 1. luck into getting the sorcerer early and use block movement to get your two stacks a good 2v1 on open ground. 2. Abuse the fact that he will chase down a single unit that is weaker than him and keep your other stack just out of sight(basically ghetto ambush tactics using the mountains to block los) 3. Have two full stacks, take a turn of infighting as an acceptable loss to murdering that bearded bastard.
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Jun 14, 2016 07:12
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Was checking mods on the steam workshop, there is a mod to make Mannfred stronger because he is a "ancient vampire" because he can't already able to solo armies hard enough I guess?
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Jun 14, 2016 07:42
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:Was checking mods on the steam workshop, there is a mod to make Mannfred stronger because he is a "ancient vampire" because he can't already able to solo armies hard enough I guess? I mean Lore wise either him or Vlad died when they were grabbed and thrown off the side of some battlements into wooden spikes in an awesome murder suicide plan by the arch lector of the time. Can't be that bad rear end.
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Jun 14, 2016 09:29
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Is Manny that much more dangerous in melee than a regular Vampire Lord? I thought LLs generally had similar stats to normal lords with just a couple of special skills and their legendary equipment.
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Jun 14, 2016 09:49
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Apparently someone datamining uncovered that beastmen and wood elves will be DLC races in the current game. Not unexpected, but good to have even dubious confirmation.
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Jun 14, 2016 09:51
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Awesome, I'm interested to see how they are implemented. Wood elves for how small an area they occupy and beast men for their campaign mechanics. Maybe horde-style armies that can go into the previously impassable heavy forests, or need to be in the forests to recruit?
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Jun 14, 2016 09:59
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My completely baseless speculation is that there will be a separate Athel Loren map that you can enter at certain points on the main map. Time and space is meant to be all weird in Athel Loren so it wouldn't be a stretch to make it bigger on the inside. Beastmen would work best as perma-stealthed hordes. If you go charging into a forest without agents going ahead to scout then you can expect to be ambushed and cut to pieces in lovely terrain that favours fast moving hit and run tactics.
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Jun 14, 2016 10:15
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No reason for Athel Loren to be a big contested map really. It's a secure home province/region for the wood elves, even if it is pretty weird. The big question is how they plan on having them interact with the main map.
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Jun 14, 2016 10:42
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I guess they could have a "Wild Hunt" type mechanic similar to grudges that requires them to hunt down and kill certain lords and their stacks. Then again Athel Loren has seen pretty big invasions from Greenskins, Beastmen and Dwarfs in the fluff so I wouldn't discount a detailed forest map.
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Jun 14, 2016 11:06
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Athel Loren is contested by the beastmen, the feral forest spirits and sometimes by the forest goblin tribes. I'm thinking they're going to introduce a forest settlement type, somehow squeezed into the forested parts of the map, or possibly overlaid on the human settlements, with something like a "wild/settled" slider deciding who gets benefits from the province.
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Jun 14, 2016 11:06
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Deified Data posted:I would kill for some sort of function that let you save custom formations, at least on a per army basis. I don't know how swapping out units or losing units would effect that. Or at least some means of automatically entering checkerboard. Yeah, I use the same formation in the vast majority of battles and having to spend a few minutes setting it up before every battle is a bit infuriating.
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Jun 14, 2016 12:00
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Dragging four priests along with your army to hang out in the same region is kind of amusing. Hit the Encamp button for one turn, all that attrition damage you took vanishes. Thanks to whoever pointed out the +recuperation skills as being really valuable.
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Jun 14, 2016 12:01
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Wood Elves and Beastmen are cool to me as the first DLC; a threat that can help unite Bretonnia or stop Estalia from running a train on the not-French all the drat time is fine by me.
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Jun 14, 2016 12:08
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I'd imagine Wood Elves and Beastmen would populate Forests instead of Cities and would have their own Provinces and Regions completely separate to the main city map.
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Jun 14, 2016 12:22
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I made it to turn 60 as chaos (all in one sitting) and pretty much made it from the starting location to the tip of Norsca, sacking and razing every target along the way. I still only have one stack but I think I have a bit of breathing room with the momentum my sacking has created. Varg and Skaelings are still around and I didn't bother finishing off the northern dwarves either, I just razed two of their settlements and left them in their capital for the vikings to feud with while I'm away. I guess my plan, if I have one, is to work my way through Norsca from west to east and destroy any Varg or Skaeling in my way, hopefully eradicating them for good. Autoresolve is a godsend. I think I've done like 1 manual battle so far, against the dwarfs, and just autoresolved every fight with the norse.
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Jun 14, 2016 12:50
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toasterwarrior posted:Wood Elves and Beastmen are cool to me as the first DLC; a threat that can help unite Bretonnia or stop Estalia from running a train on the not-French all the drat time is fine by me. I suspect the first DLC will be Brettonia, Beastmen, and Wood Elf campaigns. Then they need to add High Elves, Dark Elves, Lizardmen, and the Skaven. Maybe there will be an Elf DLC that focuses on the fighting around the elf continent, and then one that focuses on the Skaven invasion of the lizard men cities in the end times. Skaven will be the most difficult to implement because they are everywhere but it's all underground.
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Jun 14, 2016 13:04
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It may be that the forests are the first test of the map on map thing we've been floating. I really like that idea and I hope they go with it. The skaven underground could have events where holes to the surface open for pillaging opportunities.
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Jun 14, 2016 13:14
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