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 I'd mentioned it before, but just in case you weren't in on the last thread, I'm immediately following my Let's Play of Breath of Death VII: The Beginning with the following game from Zeboyd Games, the spiritual sequel, Cthulhu Saves The World. I'm going to need a Lovecraft nerd on this one, since I'm pretty sure I won't be able to learn/remember all the various Lovecraft mythos that are going to be referenced here. It's going to be a hell of a lot of them, too, and I can probably spot the major ones, but for the minor and obscure, I'm going to be goddamned clueless. Anywho, with that said, welcome! Released in the rear end-end of 2010 (December 30th, to be exact), on Xbox Live, Cthulhu Saves The World is Zeboyd Games second game. It has an enhanced version of the combat system that was used in Breath of Death VII, as well as better portraits, writing, backgrounds, maps, characters, combat--It's better in every way. I do not mean that as a generalization; Cthulhu Saves The World is an improvement in an absolutely literal sense. They had another guy helping them out with this one, Bill Stiernberg, so maybe he kicked the poo poo out of the other writer and did the good work here. I dunno, but maybe I should try and ask him one of these days. In February of 2011, they held a Kickstarter to create and release an enhanced version for the PC and Xbox, which includes extra game modes, along with other things. We'll be going through the PC version here; it was released in July of 2011, along with BoD, and it was November of that year when they were released in the combo pack available today. This LP is going to run a bit like my BoDVII LP, but it'll take a bit longer. I'll be doing one of the bonus modes, Cthulhu's Angels, as well, but enough of that, let's get crazy. Spoiler Policy Don't spoil poo poo. Just don't do it. It's not cool. Especially since this game deserves to remain unspoiled, whereas it didn't matter in Breath of Death VII. And don't even try that cute poo poo where you tease at potential spoilers. If you're interested in that sort of thing, I announce when I update on Twitter. I don't tweet many other things, so don't expect a lot of bullshit. Something Else To Shut The gently caress Up About H.P. Lovecraft was a racist guy. There, it's been said. Now don't bring that poo poo up in my thread. We're not here for that sort of thing. Updates Update One: Cthulhu Starts The Adventure Update Two: Not To Interrupt... Update Three: Not The Reference I Was Expecting Update Four: A Tower For The Great Old One Update Five: I Can't Think Of A Dunwitch Pun Update Six: In Which We're Dunwitch The Gnarlyhotep Update Seven: I Tried To Keep This Short Update Eight: Something Something Providence Something Something Aliens Update Nine: The Event Horizon Remake Or Something Update Ten: The Graveyard Of Living Memories Update Eleven: Kingsport Hustle Update Twelve: Magic Water: Sounds Like Water Mixed With LSD Update Thirteen: I'll Need Another Lovecraft Nerd Update Fourteen: Volcano! Update Fifteen: Lava It Or Leave It Update Sixteen: Let The Death Reel Roll! Update Seventeen: An Ice Cave And Then Something Vastly More Interesting Update Eighteen: Stranger Things* To Come... Update Nineteen: Not The Worst Factory I've Done Update Twenty: Cthulhu Becomes A True Hero Update Twenty One: In Our House At R'lyeh... Update Twenty Two: ...We Save The World Holy gently caress, This Is Awesome Daigerus posted:Just wanted to give my two cents for you doing a great job with this LP and showing off this underrated indie game before this thread gets closed. Mainly in the form of fanart, of course. Leave fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Jul 31, 2016 |
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Jun 16, 2016 07:52
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Update One: Cthulhu Starts The Adventure Howdy, folks, and welcome! Today, we'll be starting Cthulhu Saves The World, the second game from Zeboyd Games and the spiritual sequel. As this is the first update, I don't have much to say here, so let's get crazy.  Oh, yeah, we're playing the enhanced version. It's going to be loving craaaaaazy.  In motion, that candle is actually flickering. It's extremely simple, but impresses the poo poo out of me for some reason.  Oh, holy Christ, we're playing as Lavos this time around.  Wait, I thought Cthulhu spent a shitload time of sleeping and dreaming around there. And being dead, too. I know there's something about that in there. Lemme check the quote... "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn." Well, that cleared up a lot of nothing. Does Google Translate have crazy squid-face language...Oh, it does. In his house at R'lyeh, dead Cthulhu waits dreaming. Okay, he's not sleeping, but he is dead. I'd reckon it's kind of hard to rule when you're dead. Or dreaming.  Wait, what happened to it?  Those goddamned legends!   Which is what we'll be doing in this game! The rising of Cthulhu. Uh, not raising him ourselves, as we'll be playing as him, but we'll be rising with him.  By saving the world.  Alright, let's get this ball rolling.  Okay, that sounds alright.  While adorable, I have some sort of reputation to maintain here. I think.  Eh, seems like too much work.  And that simply scares the poo poo out of me. Next option!  Nothing to do here quite yet. Normal it is!  This is one of the features of the enhanced edition; we can find various question marks around the world that'll reveal a bit of the development process, which can be really interesting stuff. I'm not sure who the bearded gently caress is, but he'll be our talking head for the commentary. But, let's finally start the game!   R'lyeh, where Cthulhu is dead or whatever, is one of those locations that was supposedly somewhere in the real world, even if Lovecraft never spelled it out. Some other writers did, and if I remember right, the Baltic Sea is where it was finally determined to be. Stroth posted:Yes he did, it's at 47°9'S 126°43'W. Lovecraft was never one to skimp on detail. It was Charles Stross who claim it was in the Baltic. Never mind on that. It was determined, and quite exactly, even. I must have gotten a couple of locations confused, or heard some bad information somewhere.  One fun thing about Lovecraft was that he was friends with quite a few other writers, including August Derleth and Clark Ashton Smith, and he actively encouraged them to use elements of his works, including the various mythos build around the Great Old Ones and alla that; this circle was known as the Lovecraft Circle and they helped build the mythos and stories.  Even if you know nothing of Lovecraft, I'm willing to bet you've heard of at least one New England town that he created; the town of Arkham. The Batman comics have the Arkham Asylum featuring prominently within them, and there's tens of thousands of other references to Lovecraft all around literature. Stephen King, Neil Gaiman, and Alan Moore have drawn inspiration from Lovecraft in their works, as well as writers like Brian Lumley and William S. Burroughs.  If you didn't already know, Lovecraft was a horror writer, and he wrote cosmic horror, featuring beings who were so far above human morality, we couldn't even begin to understand what their motivations are. It'd be along the same lines as expecting an ant to understand why men would fight over an unfaithful partner.  And these beings were so alien, so incredibly incomprehensible, just being around them had incredibly adverse affects on the human psyche; as mentioned in one of the previous screenshots, if you simply looked upon Cthulhu, you'd be driven irreversibly insane.  Anywho, things are about to happen, so I'll keep quiet about that for now. Besides, I'm sure someone else will know far more than I do, and put my little bit of knowledge to shame.  Alright, we're starting the game by getting our poo poo absolutely wrecked. Fantastic.  Ugh, now we need someone to come along and poke us with a stick before we'll do anything.  Oh, never mind, we're good. One thing to notice is the artwork for portraits; characters will actually have different facial expressions and emotions in this game!   I wonder what jackass is going to break that news to him. There's gotta be some Cthulhu groupie around here somewhere...  Urk. I should have guessed Cthulhu would be capable of listening to the narrator...  Don't worry about it, Narrator. Without that, we wouldn't have a game.  I'm sensing a bit of conflict between those two things...  Eh, I once saved the wasteland as a cannibal that murdered everyone. I've seen plenty of different heroes.  Hell yeah, free pointers. That's less I have to explain.  One thing I like about Cthulhu's personality in this game is that he's kind of a dick, and totally cool with it.   Another thing is just how loving happy he looks in that portrait. Seriously, that's just gleeful.  Yeah, that trade-in value drops as soon as you've laid your greasy paws on the door leading into the building.  visited. The Teleport feature is new, and it lets us pop back to cities we've already been. That's mighty handy, and beats the hell out of walking everywhere.  Hey, I've seen your FPS before, Cthulhu. I'm not sure if I'd be talking poo poo.  Here's another major feature of the game, one that's incredibly simple and totally awesome. We'll see more when we actually get to some combat, but for now, just know that we can make any enemy go completely loving crazy.  Maybe not all of them, since there are some enemies that'll beat the living poo poo out of us if they're turned insane.  The combo count makes a triumphant return, and I like boosting that motherfucker just as much in this game as the last one.  At least you're not doing the LP!  Thanks!  ...Squid-faced douchebag...  And we are in control! Let's rock this joint!  That textbox explains it pretty well, but in this game, if we die during battle, we can use a 1-Up to restart the fight, no questions asked.  The menu options are pretty standard. Let's check out our stats.  Much like Dem, Cthulhu is pretty good at giving and taking damage. That's also how I'll be building him in this run.  Oh, that's the Director. Still not sure who that is, but it's good he has a name (of sorts).   We'll learn about that later. For now, we have a beach to travel.  Quite a lot of beach.  ...Alright, let's just skirt by that, I don't want to know what's going on.  Do you really think that's going to--  Yeah, what he said.  Hey, I'm not going to argue.  We get the same little box introduction to battle. I rather like it.  Holy Christ, there are battle backgrounds!  Our menu is the same as Breath of Death, so nothing to explain here. Cthulhu currently has two Techs and no Spells.   And there are battle animations in this game! Sometimes it's just a simple slash, sometimes it's some magic, but they are there! Finally, I can easily denote which enemy is being attacked!  This is the first fight, so there's an extremely small chance we're going to lose. We'd have to be actively trying to lose this fight, and even then, it might not work.  Enemies will get 10% stronger between turns, which can get very scary, very quickly.  Insane Strike is an attack that hits twice, while Deathblow is an attack that grows stronger the higher the combo count is.  If you inflict Insanity upon an enemy, their sprites will change. Each and every one. When they're turned Insane, enemies will not only deal more damage, but take more damage; it's a bit of a question about which enemies are worth turning batshit, since some of them get a whole hell of a lot more dangerous if you turn them Insane.  For a better look at the Insane Gooez, here's one that's not dying. Yet.  These guys don't get that much stronger, but what do you expect?  To show the power of hitting an Insane enemy, this was a regular, one-hit, attack from Cthulhu. The power boost can be incredibly worthwhile.  After battle, we'll always recover full HP and a small amount of MP. The faster we finish battles, the more MP we'll recover.    When you level up, there are two choices for what you can take as your level up bonus. As with Breath of Death, I'll be explaining which choice I made, and why.  Since I'll be making Cthulhu a physical rear end-stomper in this game, we take the Insane Strength bonus. 10% might not sound like a lot, but if we can get two or three enemies Insane'd at the same time, then that's an appreciable boost.   Man, he really kicked the poo poo out of those guys...  ...What?   How in the gently caress is that possible? What the hell else does she see!?  Oh, crap, I just had to ask.  Well, at least he still has pants on.  Wrap it up, we're a hero!  My dog.   Dammit.  Fhtagn means something like along the lines of dreams, sleeps, or waits. It's also Cthulhu's favorite swear word, and about the only one we'll be seeing. The rest of the swearing around here will be provided by yours truly.  If you were going to get killed by those things, I'm not sure if we want you along.   I'm sorry, Aquagirl, but we'll be going a different direction with our party members and won't be requiring your services.  Alternatively, what he said.  Now you're speakin' my language.   Yuck.  ...When you put it that way...     Umi, you scare the poo poo out of me.  In Japanese, "Umi" means sea or ocean. Google also tells me that in the Egyptian language, Umi means life. Which could also work, since she has healing magic.  We'll Chat later. Like next update later.  menu and select the Fight option. Alright, let's take a look at our newest member.  Umi is essentially a less dumbass and annoying Sara from Breath of Death VII. She fills much the same role, including using watery spells and having healing magic.  Is that another question mark I spy?   : group of heroes to serve as an introduction to combat. Basically, let the player have fun being very overpowered right at the start of the game to give them a good demo experience. After the battle, a cut-scene where it sets up the premise of the game (loses his power, has to regain it). In the end, we scrapped this idea. With only 8 minutes for the trial experience (with the XBLIG version), we decided that it was more important to get the player into the main part of the game as soon as possible and so we created the opening that you can see in the game. I got tired of transcribing.  Plus, this amuses me far too much for what he's actually saying.   The Miskatonic University is a school located within the city of Arkham. The library holds a true copy of the Necronomicon, while Dr. Herbert West, the Reanimator, hung around the medical school there.   Next update!  For now, we're taking a break. Next time, we'll get through this introductory dungeon and maybe even hit the town. Who knows? Stay tuned to find out! Leave fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Jun 16, 2016 |
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Jun 16, 2016 07:53
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Iä Cthulhu cf'ayak'vulgtmm, vugtlagln vulgtmm Seriously, rock on. edit: You should totally put links for the soundtrack in this lp. The soundtrack for this game is surprisingly good. 2nd edit: vv That's amazing. Seems Google maps has a good sense of humor mauman fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Jun 16, 2016 |
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Jun 16, 2016 08:05
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R'lyeh was given sufficiently precise locations in the stories that it is listed in Google Maps. This turns out to be very close to the "Pacific Pole of Inaccessibility" - the place on Earth furthest from any land. He was off by a few dozen miles, but still. Not bad for pre-flight cartography. (The placing of R'lyeh in the Baltic seems to have been done by Charles Stross - everyone else keeps it in the South Pacific, which tracks Lovecraft himself.) ManxomeBromide fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Jun 16, 2016 |
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Jun 16, 2016 08:12
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I gotta admit, one of my favorite parts of Zeboyd's games is the descriptions for enemies that start showing up in Cthulhu. I may be a sucker for puns though.
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Jun 16, 2016 08:18
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 I got distracted from playing this at some point, so I'll be looking forward to seeing what bizarre poo poo I missed out on.
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Jun 16, 2016 08:20
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Leavemywife posted:R'lyeh, where Cthulhu is dead or whatever, is one of those locations that was supposedly somewhere in the real world, even if Lovecraft never spelled it out. Yes he did, it's at 47°9'S 126°43'W. Lovecraft was never one to skimp on detail. It was Charles Stross who claim it was in the Baltic.
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Jun 16, 2016 08:52
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I think the "Director" might be Robert Boyd.ManxomeBromide posted:R'lyeh was given sufficiently precise locations in the stories that it is listed in Google Maps. The reviews are pretty great.
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Jun 16, 2016 08:55
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Should I install this and play along with the LP?
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Jun 16, 2016 10:18
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curiousCat posted:Should I install this and play along with the LP? Yes. Hell, that's what I'm doing right now. This game is worth playing. edit: I did some investigation about the google maps bit. Seems they took R'lyeh off the map for a while. I couldn't find why they did or why they put it back though. mauman fucked around with this message at 12:11 on Jun 16, 2016 |
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Jun 16, 2016 10:31
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I actually have this game in my steam account but never played it, I'll follow this insanely entertaining LP.
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Jun 16, 2016 11:28
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I am yet another person who started this game and never finished it. I have... 18 minutes of play time. Hm. Maybe I should play along... If anyone wants to read some Lovecraft to go along with this LP, I'd recommend The Call of Cthulhu, his most famous story that features our protagonist, and The Color Out of Space, which is possibly his best short story and Lovecraft's own favorite. Most, if not all, of Lovecraft's works are in the public domain, so it's pretty easy to find the stories and read them! Solumin fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Jun 16, 2016 |
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Jun 16, 2016 14:30
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This game is awesome. I heard about it while trolling Kickstarter a few years ago and immediately purchased it after hearing the title and premise. Glad I did. You will be too. Hope Zeboyd does something equally masterful eventually. The most entertaining parts of the game for me include the monster descriptions (many hilarious ones coming up) and insane animations (some of them had me LMAO, hope Leave can endure the rear end-kicking tougher-when-insane monsters will bring just to show them off). There's also the high level of Lovecraft research the writers did and how it shows. For those not in the know, HP Lovecraft was a prolific horror writer in the early 20th century. His significant works (short stories mostly, a few novel length) include Call of Cthulhu, Color Out of Space, At the Mountains of Madness, The Dunwich Horror, and The Shadow Over Innsmouth. Lovecraft lacked confidence and suffered from severe depression, so he never really found success with his work while alive. Yet he corresponded with many significant people (including Conan the Adventurer creator Robert E Howard and magician Harry Houdini) enough to be published in pulp magazines a lot and influence many horror writers after his death of cancer in his mid-forties. I don't want to say too much because of spoiler policies, but if you've ever heard of Cthulhu, Deep Ones, Shoggoths, the Necronomicon, doorways between dimensions, or any story with the themes of forbidden knowledge, humanity trying in vain to rise above their insignificance, people doomed to dire inescapable fate, superstition vs. primitive ignorance... chances are this guy has influenced what you've heard. Stephen King has called Lovecraft the greatest inspiration for his own horror stories and other more recent writers have obviously drawn from him too. Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, HR Giger- the list is long. I myself have enjoyed Lovecraft's work enough that I feel I can crib from Wikipedia and other Internet sources to voice the lore as Leave asks. If another goon with more Lovecraft nerd cred wants to step in though, I will gladly let them. Leave can also shut me up or ask me to edit my posts should I get out of control. Some things from the first post- Cthulhu is, as has been said, an ancient being with phenomenal cosmic powers and serious potential for causing insanity in humans. This is not the first video game based on him. Lovecraft started the mythos, others continued it, and today Cthulhu is all over horror literature, TV shows ranging from South Park to Supernatural, and gaming of both tabletop and electronic variety. TV Tropes has a whole list of pages using his name as an abbreviation for conceived beings of unimaginably alien power and personality. Popular culture has Cthulhu depicted in T-shirts, plush toys, and mugs. I first heard of him in the following cartoon by John Kovalic-  After that I read his story and learned one really shouldn't laugh about this guy. Basically the story tells of a young Rhode Island scholar who finds a sculpture of Cthulhu and various notes about his legend among his dead great uncle's personal effects. He investigates out of curiosity and pieces together that Cthulhu is an ancient mythological being worshipped by various deranged cultists and researched by scholars fascinated with obscure literature (like the dead great uncle and now the narrator). A lot of chaos and insanity seem to linger among those who have heard of his image or name. Cthulhu is the high priest (or king according to some) of a horrifying godlike race called the Great Old Ones who died out long ago but are still worshipped by modern day cults. Other tales of his majesty and power are spread via dreams and forgotten lore. Some day, the legends say, Cthulhu will awaken from his present death-like slumber and either conquer or destroy the world depending on who you ask. Cthulhu clearly has an alien morality- most consider him evil, but he holds himself above such primitive ideals. The protagonist of his tale learns that the cult of Cthulhu believes that Cthulhu's home city Ryleh is sunk beneath the ocean somewhere in the uncharted South Pacific and a group of innocent New Zealand sailors discovered its upper reaches on an island only to be baffled by the odd geometry. Then they awakened Cthulhu through exploration and barely escaped after fleeing on their ship, then ramming the monster head on when he gave chase- didn't kill him of course, Cthulhu started regenerating immediately after the ship clipped him. Then he presumably returned to Ryleh and went back to sleep. The sailors were later all killed by Cthulhu cultists and now the scholar-narrator is a target too. Is Cthulhu really alive and out there waiting for his time to come round again? Many sources, including one Austin TX researcher who recently started babbling incoherently on the Internet after looking into the issue say- YES!  In this game, Cthulhu's time has obviously arrived but he has been thwarted by whoever sealed away his power. I think most of his insanity aura has been sealed away too, as not everyone who meets Cthulhu goes nuts (unless he deliberately causes it with Insane Strike). He is still quite the rear end-kicker though, proficient with both sword and spell (we'll see more of the magic later). He also has the ability to attract fanatical devoted followers of questionable wisdom- like Umi. Umi is both my first and second favorite female characters in the game by the way. You'll learn later what I mean by that. She is Japanese, giving a nod to Lovecraft's many fans in that country and his influence on manga. She's a dim groupie who likes strange animals, like most Cthulhu followers. Umi has a lot of powers Leave will be showing off in the future. I'll post more regarding those after the next update. I like to think Umi was trying to befriend those Gooez monsters and they were too dim to realize it so they attacked her and she was too ditzy to realize they weren't hugging her... hopefully our hero Cthulhu will teach his groupie to smarten up a bit regarding strange monsters! I can't really say much about Umi yet but in the meantime think of her as a less annoying Sara like Leave said. If you missed Leave's last LP (shame on you!), well, she's a fanatical ocean enthusiast and devoted to Cthulhu despite the risks of being around him (to which she has obviously fallen victim- I especially love her fashion sense.  ) We may or may not get the opportunity to romance Umi- Cthulhu probably has an odd concept of such things and who knows if he's even into humans? Lovecraft was famously not a fan of romance in literature either, his earliest letters to pulp magazine editors showed great disdain for that genre and it's pretty absent from his own work. Pity IMO- lots of opportunity to show off Lovecraft's themes in stories regarding love. Maybe the man was too love-starved personally to explore such ideas?  I'll post more Lovecraft related-info after each post, subject to my own schedule. Leave may update faster than I can read and research- he has before. We'll see. For now enjoy a quote from Lovecraft himself- "All my tales are based on the fundamental premise that common human laws and interests and emotions have no validity or significance in the vast cosmos-at-large. To me there is nothing but puerility in a tale in which the human form—and the local human passions and conditions and standards—are depicted as native to other worlds or other universes. To achieve the essence of real externality, whether of time or space or dimension, one must forget that such things as organic life, good and evil, love and hate, and all such local attributes of a negligible and temporary race called mankind, have any existence at all. Only the human scenes and characters must have human qualities. These must be handled with unsparing realism, (not catch-penny romanticism) but when we cross the line to the boundless and hideous unknown—the shadow-haunted Outside—we must remember to leave our humanity and terrestrialism at the threshold." — H. P. Lovecraft, in note to the editor of Weird Tales, on resubmission of "The Call of Cthulhu". This quote sums up his writings well. Let's just say human interactions are largely absent from most of them. Most works based on their mythos likewise have this quality. Such interactions may or may not pop up in this game- you'll have to wait for the LP to find out. My opinion- with such an alien protagonist, who can really know? 
achtungnight fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Jun 16, 2016 |
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Jun 16, 2016 18:24
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That's awesome background achtungnight. Very interesting. Also I bought these games based on the comments on Breath of Death LP saying these games are incredibly fun.
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Jun 16, 2016 20:42
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By the way, while we're on the subject of things Lovecraft said about what does and doesn't belong in tales of The Other- Evidently, when he speaks of "Non-Euclidean geometries," he doesn't mean "you need to be able to think in seven dimensions to understand this." Well, he does, but like the dead horse Leave asked us to leave alone, it wasn't nearly as dramatic as he seemed to think. Euclidean geometry is just geometry dealing with parallel lines, and therefore by definition any geometry involving non-parallel lines is non-Euclidean (you may recognize such things as dogs and human beings as not having very many parallel lines). So when he talks about these alien spatial relationships he's not talking about seven-sided cubes or being able to see the back of your own head; he's going, "BUILDINGS WITH CURVES?! WHAT FROTHING BRAIN COULD CONCEIVE OF SUCH A THING! REALITY AS I KNOW IT IS TEARING APART!! POPSICLE HOT DOG IRRELEVANT GIBBERING!!!!!!!" Nevermind the racism; that's like, the least interesting way in which Lovecraft was the wackiest loving guy. I sort of remember reading something a long time ago that sounded a lot like Lovecraft was waaaay down towards the far end of the autism spectrum but I forget most of the details. I'll see if I can find it. Dr. Buttass fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Jun 16, 2016 |
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Jun 16, 2016 21:09
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The original trailer of the game: (Warning: contains footage of the game yet to be seen in the LP, don't know if this is considered a spoiler) The music is pretty awesome. Edit: Video removed. Angry Lobster fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Jun 16, 2016 |
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Jun 16, 2016 21:14
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Angry Lobster posted:The original trailer of the game: (Warning: contains footage of the game yet to be seen in the LP, don't know if this is considered a spoiler) If it's something we haven't seen in the LP yet and not everyone knows about it, then it's a spoiler. Please remove that video from your post. You can post it later on; you'll know when the time is right. Don't get me wrong; I loving love that trailer, but I'd like to keep people as blind as possible. I like the guessing games that can arise from that.
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Jun 16, 2016 21:28
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Good call on the trailer, Leave. I'll try to keep people blind with the vague concepts I bring up too. The many different versions of Howard Phillips Lovecraft's work that are out there should help. As Leave mentioned, he gave people license to use his concepts and many different stories resulted. The most prolific author who took Lovecraft's concepts and ran with them was August Derleth, another name Leave has aired. Derleth coined the term "Cthulhu Mythos" and created many of the core traits that concept now covers by expanding on Lovecraft's work. Fans remain divided over how much of Derleth's ideas can be considered canonical to the Cthulhu stories or what's of better quality. There's also argument over whether Lovecraft meant to create a mythos or just wanted to use it as story background- both things happened, I think. Reality ran with things no matter what Lovecraft intended. It's kinda like the Lee vs. Quesada Spiderman debate, Kirk vs. Picard on Star Trek, Lucas's vs. Zahn's vs. Disney's takes on Star Wars, and similar fandom fracases. The expansion continues today as well. There's no really rigid or coherent system to categorize the Cthulhu Mythos- nor should there be, according to most. Lovecraft himself referred to his mythos as "Yog Sothothery" and at times had to remind readers his mythos creations were entirely fictional. Derleth mainly brought in the idea that the Mythos was at its core about good vs. evil, based on the four classic elements (he had to create Old Ones to espouse some of these), brought in the ideas of Christian morality and hope triumphing over Elder Gods, and incorporated lots of other stuff you see in the popular fantasy genre. Lovecraft would probably have disagreed with much of this, but he was dead by the time Derleth did the majority of his work. Derleth was also Lovecraft's earliest and biggest publisher outside pulp magazines (he started the company Arkham House, which published all Lovecraft's stories after Lovecraft died), and did a lot to bring foreign horror stories to American shores and influence all the writers Lovecraft inspired. So it's hard to argue with his influence. If you're interested in Derleth, I hear he wrote stories in many genres, mostly detective, science fiction, and a variety of historical period pieces set in Wisconsin. I haven't read any of it myself, but Derleth's work is as influential as Lovecraft's in its own way. The heirs of Arthur Conan Doyle tried unsuccessfully to stop Derleth from profiting off Sherlock Holmes fanfiction, per Wikipedia, which gives one an idea of the sort of man Derleth was. Other authors, including Brian Lumley and Ray Bradbury, owe Derleth their success. He's probably the most well-known writer from the Midwestern United States of his time (Lovecraft was a New England writer, like Edgar Allan Poe and Stephen King).
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Jun 16, 2016 22:17
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Only one update in and this is already showing itself to be a significant improvement over Breath of Death. There's a goal stated in the opening! There's backgrounds and animations in battle! I haven't yet seen a blatant reference to some other RPG! What the hell happened to Zeboyd between these two games?!
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Jun 16, 2016 22:28
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Everything about this game is surprisingly high quality. I really loved it.
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Jun 16, 2016 23:24
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Dr. Buttass posted:By the way, while we're on the subject of things Lovecraft said about what does and doesn't belong in tales of The Other- That's not what non-Euclidean geometry means. I'm not particularly well-versed in this kind of mathematics, but I'll try my best. You can also skip my post entirely and just read this blog post that explains it somewhat. tl;dr: Euclidean geometry defines parallel lines one way, as two lines that never intersect. Non-euclidean geometries don't. The real world on our scale looks Euclidean, so trying to see something non-Euclidean in our world is mind-melting. It's not horrifying, but it'll drive you insane. For example, try to picture a normal triangle whose angles do not add up to 180 degrees. Euclidean geometry is based on five axioms, or basic true statements. For example, "you can draw a line between two points," (postulate 1) and "circles exist and can be described as a center point and a radius." (postulate 3) (So yes, curves are definitely Euclidean, because curves are just parts of circles.) The most interesting of these axioms is the "parallel postulate": "If a straight line falls on two straight lines in such a manner that the interior angles on the same side are together less than two right angles, then the straight lines, if produced indefinitely, meet on that side on which are the angles less than the two right angles." This image explains it better. A simpler and more modern way of expressing it is: Given a line and a point not on that line, there is exactly 1 line that passes through the point and does not intersect with the line. The parallel postulate is really useful. It gives us things like "the angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees," for example. In a Non-Euclidean geometry, the parallel postulate is replaced with a new axiom. For example, in elliptical geometry, there are no (Euclidean) parallel lines: given a line and a point not on the line, every line that passes through the point also intersects with the given line. If you have two straight lines, they will intersect at some point. There's also hyperbolic geometry: given a line and a point not on the line, there are infinitely many lines that pass through the point and never intersect with the given line. We get some really strange results just by changing the parallel postulate. The three angles in a triangle no longer add up to 180 degrees, but instead are greater than 180 in elliptic and less than 180 in hyperbolic. We can actually draw these by drawing on something other than a flat plane, like a sphere for elliptical geometry, kind of like this. We perceive our world as Euclidean, so we see it the bent lines of a triangle, but on the sphere itself the lines are straight. What if we were somehow to project that elliptical triangle onto our real world? Try to imagine coming across some deserted island in the south Pacific and, on the island, a pyramid. Each face of the pyramid has three straight edges and -- wait, that angle is obtuse, and that other angle is obtuse, and that third one is...acute? Maybe? Hold on, those lines should make a right angle, but --  It's not supposed to be horrifying, but instead mind-melting. Your brain is trying to make sense of an alien geometry that should not rightly exist in our universe. Cthulhu bends reality. Playing with non-Euclidean stuff gets you fun things like this Portal map: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xFbRecjKQA Edit: Thought of a better example. You find a square clay tablet. There are two straight lines inscribed on the tablet, both of which start at the left edge and cross the whole tablet to the right edge. You trace your finger along one of them. It forms a right angle at the left edge and proceeds straight across the tablet to form another right angle at the far edge, with no bending or curves in the line. You trace your finger along the other line and find it also forms right angles with both edges. But when you look at the whole tablet, you see that the lines intersect. Solumin fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Jun 16, 2016 |
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Jun 16, 2016 23:30
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Well, there's a reason I studied liberal arts and not mathematics. So am I right in understanding that Euclidean geometry is about truly parallel lines, or is it that non-Euclidean geometry uses an entirely different definition of "parallel" in the first place?
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Jun 17, 2016 00:27
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In the Call of Cthulhu the sailors trip over "an angle of masonry which shouldn’t have been there; an angle which was acute, but behaved as if it were obtuse". So it is very much alien and difficult to understand.
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Jun 17, 2016 00:29
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Dr. Buttass posted:So am I right in understanding that Euclidean geometry is about truly parallel lines, or is it that non-Euclidean geometry uses an entirely different definition of "parallel" in the first place?
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Jun 17, 2016 00:51
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Dr. Buttass posted:Well, there's a reason I studied liberal arts and not mathematics. The definition of "parallel lines" never changes, it's still "two lines that are parallel will never cross each other." It's more that the very shape of space is different, such that the Euclidean assumption about parallel lines can't be true. In Euclidean geometry, if you have two parallel lines, you know the distance between them never changes. With one line and a point next to the line -- say, 5 inches to the right -- Euclidean geometry ensures that there is only one line that passes through the point and never intersects with the first line. In non-Euclidean geometry, we don't have that guarantee. There might be infinitely many lines that pass through the point and never intersect (like in hyperbolic geometry) or there may only be lines that pass through the point and intersect with the first line, like in elliptic. I honestly find it really hard to think about. You have to actively forget a lot of built-in assumptions about the world.
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Jun 17, 2016 01:03
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Seiren posted:Only one update in and this is already showing itself to be a significant improvement over Breath of Death. There's a goal stated in the opening! There's backgrounds and animations in battle! I haven't yet seen a blatant reference to some other RPG! What the hell happened to Zeboyd between these two games?! Maybe he's just one of those rare people who can accept criticism and improve from it?
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Jun 17, 2016 01:05
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The best example of non-euclidean geometry is the globe. Lines of longitude are parallel at the equator, but converge at the poles, in defiance of Euclid's geometry. This derives, essentially, from the curvature of the space on which the lines meet, the interaction of two-dimensional and three-dimensional spaces. It's relatively easy to understand in the abstract, but becomes more difficult to grasp in the concrete.
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Jun 17, 2016 01:09
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Keeshhound posted:Maybe he's just one of those rare people who can accept criticism and improve from it? Once that's done and Zeboyd learned how to make a game, he's refining it. More pretty animations, more actual humor, less lampshading etc.
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Jun 17, 2016 01:13
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Dr. Buttass posted:Euclidean geometry is just geometry dealing with parallel lines, and therefore by definition any geometry involving non-parallel lines is non-Euclidean It's not quite as mundane as that. In euclidean geometry, parallel lines are the same distance away from each other at every point along either line. For non-euclidean geometries this isn't true, which means that parallel lines may diverge or intersect. In flat surfaces this would probably look to an observer like mundanely curved surfaces, but I like to think that 'non-euclidean' was Lovecraft's way of trying to get at the idea of space not being flat or otherwise consistent, which would be a pretty hosed up thing for a human to try to perceive. Crigit fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Jun 17, 2016 |
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Jun 17, 2016 02:29
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EponymousMrYar posted:Criticism in part, but so far it feels to me that Breath of Death was a first game and as such Zeboyd didn't know what to do so he did what's already been done and lampshaded the heck out of it.
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Jun 17, 2016 02:51
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Regarding non-Euclidean geometry, it's worth noting that Lovecraft was writing at a time when mathematics and science were both undergoing a massive revolution. This shows up in a number of ways in his stories, but the general sense that everything we thought we rationally knew about how reality worked, refined over hundreds of years from the beginnings of the scientific revolution, was being swept away in some searing burst of revelation, to make way for... something else. That something else is, really, us—modern and post-modern civilization. We are the Deep Ones, a terrifying and inhuman Externality to the world before WWI. (Even for the time, HPL was, shall we say, a bit old-fashioned. But the idea that he could have looked at the Roaring Twenties and seen glimpses of us would produce a result not unlike the attitude toward the alien and the other we see in his fiction. )The flipside of this revolution is that Lovecraft took his writing and his science very seriously indeed. While I have not found actual samples of them, there are apparently letters he wrote to these magazines complaining about astronomical errors and other kinds of being wrong on the He's a hard science fiction writer for what are now dead sciences. TL;DR: The past is a foreign country. Lovecraft's work and personal history are this foreignness in microcosm.
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Jun 17, 2016 05:10
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I find that the best way to comprehend non-Euclidian geometry is basically to see it as Cthulhu if he was a set of architectural guidelines instead of an awesome horrorbeast. Crazy god things aint gonna build according to silly human rules since they're missing like, half of the proper dimensions pfff poo poo'll never be up to code. Also check out this awesome reading of Nyarlathotep if you like your insanity as audio.
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Jun 17, 2016 05:11
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Links some may enjoy - http://hppodcraft.com/ These folks go through all of HP Lovecraft's works. They're funny and the podcast has lots of insightful points. They also have several reading by excellent people, free for the listening, including Call of Cthulhu and The Haunter in the Dark -- one of the stories where HPL cheerfully and gleefully kills off a stand-in character for Clark Ashton Smith. As already mentioned, HPL, CAS, Robert Bloch (Psycho and other horror titles), Robert E Howard (Conan) had a great time writing in each others' styles, cross-referencing the entities and infamous books. From Wikipedia (because easier than looking this up myself) - "Robert Bloch devised the idea of Ludvig Prinn and his De Vermis Mysteriis, while the Book of Eibon is an invention of Clark Ashton Smith's. Robert E. Howard is responsible for Friedrich von Junzt and his Unaussprechlichen Kulten." The Conan stories have a very strong Lovecraftian vibe to them, except that Conan takes names and kicks rear end, while Lovecraft's protagonists...don't fare so well. The two authors wrote reams of letters to each other, and frequently they argued over civilization - decadent and making Man weak, or the defining and highest point of refinement for humanity. If you read Lovecraft, then read Howard, you can see this play out in the stories, and see how much Howard enjoyed taking the eldritch horror and answering it in his own way. Radio dramas and audio readings: http://www.19nocturneboulevard.net/All_Lovecraftian.htm The Dunwich Horror is a favorite of mine, and this is a great adaptation. The Lovecraft 5 are hilarious, and very well done. "From Beyond" and "the Mountains of Madness" are both excellent examples of Lovecraft's love of science. Both links have readings/adaptations of "From Beyond" and both are very well done.
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Jun 17, 2016 05:34
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ManxomeBromide posted:Regarding non-Euclidean geometry, it's worth noting that Lovecraft was writing at a time when mathematics and science were both undergoing a massive revolution. This shows up in a number of ways in his stories, but the general sense that everything we thought we rationally knew about how reality worked, refined over hundreds of years from the beginnings of the scientific revolution, was being swept away in some searing burst of revelation, to make way for... something else. This is a really good point! Non-Euclidean geometries themselves weren't discovered until the mid 19th century, so they were still relatively new in Lovecraft's day and having a strong, revolutionary impact on mathematics. I especially like, "He's a hard science fiction writer for what are now dead sciences." I'd like to talk more about Lovecraft in popular culture, but I'm pretty sure there's supposed to be an LP going on somewhere around here...
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Jun 17, 2016 05:53
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Update Two: Not To Interrupt... Welcome back! Last time, on Cthulhu Saves The World, we started our adventure as the squid-faced monstrosity, losing our incredible powers and discovering we need to become a true hero to have them restored. Today, where I interrupt a conversation in the thread about non-Euclidean geometries, we'll be going through the cave that leads to Miskatonia, so let's get crazy.   We're going to get through our first dungeon today. It's not quite as maze-like as the dungeons in BoD, but it is fairly lengthy to begin an adventure with.  It also looks much nicer than pretty much any other dungeon we went through in BoD, too. Already.   Combat time!  Goblins are good to start an adventure with, and Giant Rats are another monster you can't go wrong with.  I didn't mention it last update, but each and every monster has a little blurb about it, in addition to its HP.  These guys are a bit more dangerous than the Goeez we fought outside.  Umi isn't much for physical attacks, but that's okay. We've got Cthulhu around.  That still hurts, though. Yowch.  So much for the Goblin...  Let's take a look at what Umi can do.  She starts off with a decent skill list, including a spell that can hit the entire enemy party at once.  And this skill; it'll turn an enemy Insane, as well as Stun them. It'll never fail, but it only works once per battle. It's pretty great, since Umi is going to typically be going first, so she can make an enemy that much more available for an rear end-beating, while locking it down.   Making enemies Insane is really good for killing them faster. It also usually makes them better at killing you, too, so it's a bit of a risk/reward sort of thing.  While we're facing real enemies now, we're still not getting that great of a reward for defeating them.  Still enough to get Umi her first level, though!   Well, I like the sound of that. No reason for our squishy healer to be getting her rear end kicked.  Buuuuuut, making her just that much faster for each enemy that is made Insane? I'll take that; it doesn't add up to much right now, but when she's got a few levels on her, this could make an incredible difference, with even just one enemy.  While we're around, let's see another new enemy.  Or two, why not.  Man, that is one hell of an old reference. I'm pretty sure it was an old reference even when this game came out. Either way, Crabs are fairly tough bastards, being covered in that tough outer shell.  He also announces that the kick is good when he's turned Insane.     Umi has a couple of spells to start with; Flood is going to be pretty useful in this dungeon, even if a lot of the enemies resist Water, since a fair few are sea monsters. It still works for softening them up.  I cannot tell you how great it is to have battle animations again. That seems stupid to say, but just some sort of visual representation of what you've just done is satisfying, in a small, almost inconsequential way.  The Sea Horse doesn't look surprised so much as it looks like it just stepped on a LEGO.     I still wonder who is keeping these torches lit.   I should have went across this bridge right now, but I thought it was the way forward, and not the way to treasure.  We'll get to the treasure in a minute, though. It takes me a little bit to realize my mistake.   Gulls, like they are in real life, are annoying. They're very fast and don't do much damage.  And Flood needs just a skosh more power to down them in a single hit.  They do look hilarious when turned batshit, though.     And this was the moment that I realized my error.  But, hey, more EXP for me.  Oh, look at the cute lil' guys and their  Jesus Christ, what horror is beside them!?  Er..Okay.  They're still cute!  Yeah, I'm going to trust you on that one.  Good God, it looks like one of the moronic forms from that SNES EVO game.   Yay!  Uh-huh...  There it is!  Onward to treasure!   If that's a tunic, I'm not sure Cthulhu knows how to wear them.  Then again, he might just like wearing them as a skirt. I'm not here to judge.    What, it's the first dungeon. You should be expecting more than a few levels in here.  Wow, now that's a good bit of attack power.  Oh, yeah, enemies can be separated in groups in this game; if two of the same enemies are standing next to each other, and another one of them is separated by another monster, the first two are considered a group. I take Blind Strike, since that's a good bit of damage, it raises the combo counter, and Blinding things is not a bad thing to do.    I always find it hard to write commentary when we're wandering around a cave.  During battle, it's easier, but just walking through a cave? I never know what to say.    Oh, good, something to talk about. Potions return in this game, and they do the same thing they did in Breath of Death; full HP recovery for whoever it is used on.     Fresh air! It's no longer just water and rocks!  Hey, it's that bridge we crossed under earlier!  Or it would have been, but something else demands our attention.  That Dolphin does not look friendly.  It definitely is not friendly. Or maybe it is. Once again, not here to judge (or kink-shame).  I can now say that it's not friendly.  Bah. When an enemy is Blind, their accuracy goes straight into the shitter. I've never seen an enemy actually hit while Blind, but I suppose it's possible.  Yay!  Fireball, you say?  Never mind that; we're going for a physical based Cthulhu, so we're taking the sword strike. It'll still burn the poo poo out of whatever we use it on.   Who the hell put this ladder here?   And who the hell are they?   I do not know why your parents named you that, but I'm pretty sure they were hoping you'd get your rear end kicked at school.  Calm down, edgelord. You might actually get some sun on your face.  I hate this guy on principle.  There's a sun behind you! Light is already in the world! And we don't have any goddamned powers!    I'm...I'm not sure Cthulhu would have done that.  See, he agrees with me. But, come on, she's right there.  Just go ahead and poke him in the butt, Umi. Uh, with your trident. I know you already think he's the hottest thing since Joan of Arc, and I don't want to give you any ideas.  Please say yes, please say yes, please say yes  Dammit.      He couldn't afford sunscreen, but he did have that ratty old thing in the closet.  It's not a skin condition if you've spent the last six years in a basement, wondering why nobody publishes your glorified fanfiction.  Have at thee!   Uh, right-o.  Oh, come on. He looks like enough of a douche we should just call him Summer's Eve.  And he's now basically absolutely useless in this fight. Go us!  She doesn't look Insane so much as it looks like she activated stripper mode.   Of course he'd be one of those thieves.  Meh, whatever.  Insane and Blind, Dash is probably trying to find his own fingers to gnaw on at this point.   Flame Strike is a good skill. And it looks cool, too.  I can't even articulate how much I hate this rear end in a top hat.  To try and show it visually, I light his crotch on fire to kill him. I believe it's effective.  ...Assholes...   I hope Dash and Switchblade are both in Hell.  Oh, right, they have that going for them.  I have my doubts.  Or maybe we will.   Oh, Stiernberg was the artist for this. But if he was just drawing stuff, who the hell kicked the writer's rear end and made him do a better job...?  But how does it rectify it? We'll find out in Cthulhu's Angels!    And back to our amateur spelunking adventure!    And now I'm back to not knowing what to say.  I mean, there's a stalagmite.  You know it's a stalagmite because it has a "G" in it, and it's growing out of the ground. Stalactites grow from the ceiling and have a "C" in them.  Ah, poo poo, I pretty much shot that wad.    There's that little pool; we can't do anything with the water, but it's certainly there.  Oh, thank God, a battle I can talk about.  What is that horrid motherfucker!?   THAT DIDN'T MAKE IT ANY BETTER   Thankfully, they're pretty easy to take out. Flame Strike goes a long way toward kicking the poo poo out of everything we meet here.   Now that's a skill I can appreciate. The higher the combo count, the better chance I have of inflicting status ailments. Considering how I like to boost that thing, this is going to see some good use.  Eh, not doing a warrior Umi, so let's not worry about this.   Ooh, treasure!  Ooh, money!  Ooh, crossing..A bridge.   And a level up! Oop, spoke too soon.  There we go.   While I'd like to make Cthulhu tougher, he needs the speed at the moment, so he gets the +30 Agility.    Man, this is an extensive cave network.   But we're getting there.   I mean, we're going back outside already!   Y'know, I won't lie, I could picture Cthulhu going through this adventure, sporting a Rambo-esque headband the whole time.  But then there'd be a lot more Loverboy references, and you know you don't want that.   Ah, my favorite part of finding treasure; new weapons!  I can never get too many new weapons.    I just ate a bacon double cheeseburger.    It was pretty good. I had it left from lunch, and still have part of my wife's burger in the fridge. I might eat that later.  Her appetite has increased the further she's gotten in her pregnancy, but she still has trouble finishing a double burger. I don't mind, since I get to finish what she doesn't eat.  There's an Earthbound joke in there somewhere, something about recovering about 90 HP, but it's just not coming to me.   To the right, is the way out. To the left is treasure.   Bit of a long path there, though.   But money is good. We'll need to have a lot of that. There's a lot more weapons and armor in this game, as well as more party members.  But, that'll come when it comes. For now, let's worry about getting out of here.   We're actually really close to the boss here.  And more commentary!  : of MP (and perhaps forgetting to save as well since they were used to only saving at restore points), we fixed this and added restore points before pretty much every boss in the game. Star Terror?   Look at that background. It's not much, but it's nice, in a simple sort of way.  More commentary coming up!  :: the engine and besides, there are a few things more heroic than a squid man standing on top of a cliff with a sword in hand. I can't really argue with that assessment.   Jesus, that is a long bridge.  It has waves!   A...A tentacled butthole. Fantastic.  From what I can tell, this isn't a reference to something else. Rigel is a star in the sky, part of Orion and the seventh brightest star in the night sky, but the XLIV part just seems to be a random string of Roman numerals.  Hey, it's the Kraken from Pirates of the Caribbean.  Girl, we ain't fought poo poo up to this point.   Alright, our first real boss fight!  Ooh, a reference to Final Fantasy IV!  Too bad we can't just lob a grenade down its throat.  Unlike the bosses in the last game, we can inflict status effects on the bosses in this game.  But the enemy AI seems to be reactive, assuming they have a reaction to have, beyond trying to smack you.  Turning it Insane will greatly boost our damage, but it has this skill to greatly increase its damage, in addition to the boost from Insanity.  Holy poo poo, that's nothing to sneeze at. (Side note: I just sneezed)   All in all, it's a pretty simple fight, being the first boss and all.  Now that's more of a reward I'd like from a boss fight.  Both characters gain levels, too!  The other choice is a boost to HP and MP, but as you know, I prefer the stat boosts.   I'll take the more expensive Escape; it's a sure thing and if I'm going to be escaping, you can drat well bet that I'm going to make drat sure I'm getting out of there.   Ah, too late, Umi, you basically agreed!  We did the right thing in putting it down. It hopped up here, all Billy Badass, and we showed it who's boss.  See? We did the right thing.  Eh, jury's still out on if your IQ hits the double digits or not.  Oh, God, more commentary!?  : were toast. Before release, we upped its ailment resistance a tad while simultaneously lowering its power to make it more manageable. Stuff like that is really neat to me. It's just a small glimpse into how things came about, and how they could have been different.  And there we go. We are outta there!  Which is where we're going to leave things off. Next time, we'll pop into town and see what's going on. Stay tuned!
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Jun 17, 2016 09:55
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I looked at the update twice and I didn't see the first chat. Either my eyes aren't catching it (admittedly a real possibility) or.....uh....yeah. Also, I would just like to say a Warrior Umi is probably the most dangerous character in the game (for bosses at least).
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Jun 17, 2016 10:30
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Leavemywife posted:Oh thank god. It's still dark green accents on dayglo hunter safety green, but at least it's not nearly as bad as BOD7's eye watering overworld, and I'll take what I can get!
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Jun 17, 2016 11:05
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The Uzumaki snail is a reference to Junji Ito's Uzumaki, in which a coastal town is terrorized by spirals. One of the earlier things that happens is that people who are too lazy start turning into giant snails. Much later, when the town is cut off from the outside world and food supplies are low, some of the survivors start eating the snails. It's an even weirder story than it sounds.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:08
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Leavemywife posted:Rigel is a star in the sky, part of Orion and the seventh brightest star in the night sky It's also mentioned in the stories as somewhere that the Elder Gods like to hang out. Don't think there was any more detail than that though.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:10
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quote:You know it's a stalagmite because it has a "G" in it, and it's growing out of the ground. Stalactites grow from the ceiling and have a "C" in them. Also, stalactites have to hang on tight to keep from falling, while stalagmites might reach the ceiling one day if they keep growing.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:14
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