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Endorph posted:they want to have sex with him? Yes
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Jun 17, 2016 05:38
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anime was right posted:windjammer clones count as fighting games right gently caress yah hope it plays well on stick Real hurthling! fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Jun 17, 2016 |
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Jun 17, 2016 05:43
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Broken Loose posted:i mean, my point is that, since what games are good can be generally agreed upon by consensus through discussion, and what games somebody likes can literally be anything (see: people playing bad rats/sfxt/sfa3/mk9 unironically), claiming that "there is no difference between a good game and a game you like" is possibly the stupidest and most bizarre statement conceivable from somebody who constantly talks poo poo about games. i mean if you're defining 'good' as 'deemed good by consensus' that's pretty recursive logic. if you're making an appeal to objectivity, there's no way to establish a game's objective quality independent of a given person's subjective experience. any criteria you come up with to do so are arbitrary. all consensus means is more people happen to have had the same experience and idk how that's any closer to objectivity than the view of one person.
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Jun 17, 2016 06:15
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That's bullshit. There are definite objective criteria for what makes a game bad, so we can use those same criteria to define a negative space of a good game to at least a point enough to reach a general consensus. If your point is "everything is subjective, even basic things you take for granted like whether or not the game loads or whether the game requires player input to be completed," then congratulations on being a lovely edgelord?
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Jun 17, 2016 06:37
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Broken Loose posted:That's bullshit. There are definite objective criteria for what makes a game bad criteria founded on what? rules pulled out of the ether w/ no relation to human experience? Spermgod fucked around with this message at 07:05 on Jun 17, 2016 |
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Jun 17, 2016 07:03
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Endorph posted:they want to have sex with him? I mean I want to have sex with Floe but that's besides the point
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Jun 17, 2016 07:09
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Endorph posted:they want to have sex with him? you don't have to like him to want to gently caress him
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Jun 17, 2016 07:54
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From several pages back, but the best part is actually this and the music.
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Jun 17, 2016 08:09
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play puyo puyo
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Jun 17, 2016 12:22
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anime was right posted:windjammer clones count as fighting games right Finally, everything is right with the world again
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Jun 17, 2016 12:39
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The key to finding consensus on whether games are good or bad is to listen to my opinion as I'm always right and you're all just idiots for not getting it
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Jun 17, 2016 13:03
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anime was right posted:windjammer clones count as fighting games right literally the best thing I've seen at e3
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Jun 17, 2016 15:15
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Broken Loose posted:That's bullshit. There are definite objective criteria for what makes a game bad, so we can use those same criteria to define a negative space of a good game to at least a point enough to reach a general consensus. I feel that everyone has different opinions and views of "what makes a good fighting game". Personally I use the following criteria that need to apply in order for a fighting game to be "good": 1. The game is fun. 2. The game has to be more fun, interesting, and strategic at high level play than at low level play. 3. There can't be any gimmicks that strongly affect competitive play (e.g. transforming stages, leveling up characters, purchasing moves as microtransactions, etc.)* 4. The fighting mechanics are well polished and require a fair amount of strategy to take out your opponent 5. There aren't any horribly overpowered characters in the roster.* * If points 1, 2, and 4 apply to the to title, and players generally use certain set of characters, and/or stages, and what not, then the game can still be "good." AKA the Marvel and Smash philosophy. All IMO of course. punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Jun 17, 2016 |
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Jun 17, 2016 15:46
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I remember when they banned characters and stages in Marvel to make a good game,
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Jun 17, 2016 15:58
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bebaloorpabopalo posted:I remember when they banned characters and stages in Marvel to make a good game, man it's almost like he touched on that caveat
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Jun 17, 2016 16:03
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bebaloorpabopalo posted:I remember when they banned characters and stages in Marvel to make a good game, #1: I never said they "banned" characters. Just that they mostly use a specific roster (more so in Marvel 2). #2 punk rebel ecks posted:* players agree to only use specific characters, and/or stages
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Jun 17, 2016 16:05
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Broken Loose posted:That's bullshit. There are definite objective criteria for what makes a game bad, so we can use those same criteria to define a negative space of a good game to at least a point enough to reach a general consensus. Also, I mean, if I agree with your premise and there's a difference between games that are good and games that are fun, I would just play the games that are fun. What's the value of a game that's good but not fun?
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Jun 17, 2016 16:11
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when did people agree only to use specific characters in marvel. you can use anyone you want its just that most of them suck
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Jun 17, 2016 16:12
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dangerdoom volvo posted:when did people agree only to use specific characters in marvel. you can use anyone you want its just that most of them suck I may have used the wrong term.
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Jun 17, 2016 16:13
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you should be able to articulate your preferences and explain why other people should adopt them like if i say "parries are good because they're a pure skill check and increase the gap between players without creating new decision points" you know exactly where i'm coming from re: one or two mechanics and can infer a lot about how i think about competitive gaming in general (plus if i'm wrong and they actually do create new decision points you can school me and both potentially change my mind and make an informative post about how 3S actually works)
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Jun 17, 2016 16:14
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:you should be able to articulate your preferences and explain why other people should adopt them That's a fair point. I will edit my post to get the point across better. EDIT - I added changes to the line. Hopefully that makes things a bit more clear. The point was that there are some the games that have some significant things wrong with them by default. Things such as poor character balanc or random items popping up on screen. If the players in these games counter these issues by deciding to either ban certain characters, or generally stick with a specific set of characters, or turn off the random items, or what not, and the game is then fun, strategic, interesting, and strengthens those factors at a higher skill ceiling, then I will give the game a pass. punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Jun 17, 2016 |
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Jun 17, 2016 16:15
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What's a "decision point"?
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Jun 17, 2016 16:17
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I'll make a 3S parry effortpost if you clarify what you mean by Decision Points because that's the name of Dubyas memoirs and I'm just reading your post in his voice and laughing
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Jun 17, 2016 16:18
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In Training posted:What's a "decision point"? If you have a choice in a game where you can do one thing or the other with a significant opportunity cost, that's a decision point. If you have a thing you can do that you should always be doing (at least in certain circumstances) and all that matters is how well you do it, that's a skill check. There isn't a perfect bright line between them because stuff like how attention or time spent practicing can be thought of as limited resources but I think you can still judge most mechanics to lean one way or the other. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Jun 17, 2016 |
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Jun 17, 2016 16:21
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:you should be able to articulate your preferences and explain why other people should adopt them This is a very elaborate way of summoning brian
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Jun 17, 2016 16:21
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interrodactyl posted:This is a very elaborate way of summoning brian bebaloorpabopalo posted:I'll make a 3S parry effortpost if you clarify what you mean by Decision Points because that's the name of Dubyas memoirs and I'm just reading your post in his voice and laughing it was just an example based on something i remembered reading in this thread, i don't actually have especially strong or especially informed opinions on 3S at all  please do, though, i love reading this stuff
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Jun 17, 2016 16:23
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interrodactyl posted:This is a very elaborate way of summoning brian Nah, that post reads positive overall re: 3S.
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Jun 17, 2016 16:24
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I apologize for being so touchy when others criticized my post. It's just that some accuse me of acting like an elitist on this board, when I really don't want to give that impression off (because I'm hardly the most hardcore person in the FGC).
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Jun 17, 2016 16:26
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like, brood war example: "do i expand or build five hydralisks" vs. "can i split my starting workers perfectly" there's a spectrum between these two extremes and fighting games tend to bake execution into everything (which is good, because otherwise why not just make a turn-based game) but hopefully that makes it a bit clearer
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Jun 17, 2016 16:31
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didn't japan soft-ban sagat in st?
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Jun 17, 2016 16:37
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I think "decision points" for parries mostly comes down to players using them in defensive situations. For example jump-in situations in 3S are way different from any other Street Fighter or fighting game. The person on the ground has to decide whether to attempt to anti-air with a move, parry, or block/tech empty jump throw/jump away. The person jumping has to decide the timing of their jumpin, whether to attempt to parry an attempted anti-air, whether to empty jump throw to beat an attempted parry, or empty jump parry into landing into jumping away again because that is something that literally happens in high level 3S. Same thing with meaties, where you can choose to parry high/low to punish meaties and risk eating a throw/super confirm or just downback/throw tech etc. Parries create a lot of situations that are pure skill checks, like "can I react and parry this move to get a punish" but their mechanics also allow for situations where you are making extremely safe "guesses" with little to no downside. In footsies range vs a Ken I can tap down sometimes. Tapping down widens my hitbox for a few frames, during which I'm also parrying low. At the right range if he presses cr.mk or sweep it will *only* hit me if I'm crouching, thus parrying. Even better, I could be holding back/downback the majority of the time, then tap toward sometimes and go back to back/downback. If he tries to st.rh I will always either block or parry it. A lot of this stuff leads to very passive and boring play at higher levels, and really silly situations if viewed from the perspective of "having played any other fighting game ever." There's a lot more stuff like option selecting parries behind kara throws to get either a kara throw or a normal depending on if you parried or not. Overall parries have a huge effect on every facet of play in 3S and whether you like it comes down to how much you enjoy the "positives" over the pretty much objectively bad stuff. Or you can be brian and deny OS parries exist at all.
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Jun 17, 2016 16:53
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That post was not very good and I'm sorry but I'm better at framing things around specifics instead of big general things like thatEndorph posted:didn't japan soft-ban sagat in st? "Soft-ban" means absolutely nothing and is a term people made up for "most people still playing ST in Japan don't play O.Sagat because he makes the game really boring in their eyes." You can play Akuma in Japanese ST tournaments if you want to.
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Jun 17, 2016 16:55
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Parries in 3S are not remotely all optional party time do it anyway extravaganzas, for every parry you do that's not simply leading a normal (and even then you're choosing to parry -> normal over doing the normal quicker) you're making a decision about that situation. Parries come with a roughly 30f cooldown and are only active for a maximum of 7-8f, which is contingent on not cancelling that parry into movement, blocking or attacks. For example in a jump in from a middling range, you as the jumper can choose to parry early on the way up and just about have time to parry again on the way down, leaving you exposed during the gap, you can parry at around the point where their farthest AA option will land (and typically do your jump in after) and lose to later AAs that interrupt your normal or miss the parry window and finally you can parry late to counter late AA, but give up the option to put in a jump normal. But it doesn't stop there! Say you parry anything successfully in these situations you now have to contend with what they'll do after the parry, most good AA options can be cancelled into something or other, for example vs a shoto you have to contend with it being cancelled into invincible dps that can be multihit, tatsus that hit considerably later than dps on cancel and can shift them behind you, machine gun jabs and finally doing nothing and baiting your multi parry attempt. If you're committing to follow up parries, you're not committing to getting the normal out in time if they don't do anything, leaving you at neutral most of the time. There's a big element of attention in 3S, if you're focused on countering X and Y and they do Z, you might technically be able to fit in some magical parry somewhere but you'll rarely ever be in a frame of mind to execute on that because of the competing issues with all the other options you and your opponent have. I could get into parrying jump ins which in general is much simpler, but has a whole element of making parry safe jump ins and early normals that allow good tick grabs and stuff, not to mention the ever present threat of empty jump low/throw that you get in every fighting game, but there's only so much 3splainin I can be bothered to do. The biggest thing in 3S is that while there's techniques to mitigate the amount of decision making you have to do (standard option parries, crouch -> parry to anti air etc), the basis of the game has a huge element of constant and branching decision making as a result of parry and IMO its necessarily down to the lack of whiff animation and ease of input. I think the end game is really cool as you might imagine and I accept that some people don't, but to me it's literally Street Fighter Improved as instead of being RPS it's RPSP and in another shock horror lovely opinion, I really enjoyed the Metal Gear Acid series. edit: I don't pretend OS parries don't exist, I just think they're the cost of a great system and it's not a big deal to do any of them, while learning when you can do them without repercussion is a fun process. edit2: There's a whole element to option parries wherein you can confirm off their parry into a super cancel or even command grabs in various situations, the parry stun is long enough to see a lot of the time. brian fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Jun 17, 2016 |
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Jun 17, 2016 16:59
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Booyah- posted:*walks into thread* Been looking for someone to play this with  anime was right posted:windjammer clones count as fighting games right Looks like they pretty much cloned the windjammers game mechanics without adding anything new or interesting, slapped a lovely coat of paint on it, and moved the camera to a worse position...
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Jun 17, 2016 17:00
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Jun 17, 2016 17:01
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His worst crime: being a 3S fan. What about button-based parries, like MB's Shield or whatever the gently caress Last Blade has? I feel like that's a better implementation of the mechanic overall.
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Jun 17, 2016 17:06
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Here is when you should ban a character/stage/mechanic: when people stop playing the game because of it
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Jun 17, 2016 17:07
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hadoukens can't melt steel beams
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Jun 17, 2016 17:07
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dragon enthusiast posted:Here is when you should ban a character/stage/mechanic: when people stop playing the game because of it If this was the case Zero would have been banned long ago
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Jun 17, 2016 17:13
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 07:20 |
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Yo those dudes still playing marvel fuckin love it though, god drat
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Jun 17, 2016 17:15
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