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Senjuro posted:A little handwavey? It makes about as much sense as the virus in Independence Day (and let's even include the explanation from the deleted scene to be generous). It's the definition of deus ex machina . I'd blame it on the short season if the writers didn't waste half of it on number of the week crap instead of setting up a proper ending to the main conflict of the show. I think this is a pretty weird time to suddenly start demanding realism 
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Jun 16, 2016 06:19
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raditts posted:The only real question I have is that in the Machine-less world, the original Samaritan created by Arthur whatsisface wouldn't have been scrapped and would have been in The Machine's place. So where the hell does Greer come in to that, why would he be in charge? The only reason he was able to get his hands on Samaritan in the first place was because it had been mothballed so he was able to steal the hard drives from the vault they were kept in. Unless we're to assume that in that world there would have been YET ANOTHER ASI that was just as finished and capable as Samaritan was and Greer acquired some omniscient knowledge about that and where to find all the parts to make it work. Zaggitz posted:In the Harold's what-if you hear Harold and Nathan talking about "those other attacks" and that tells me that the Vigilance plot to put Decima in charge of Samaritan over the ISA ended up still happening. They also show that Carter taking down HR only happens in 2014 which is around the time Decima would have overtaken Control. It's most definitely a different version of Samaritan than the one we see in the "real" world. There's a blink-and-you'll-miss-it Alt-Samaritan POV shot in Shaw's what-if sequence and its UI is vastly different than the "real" Samaritan's, almost simpler, more Machine-like. Whether that's meant to imply that Claypool's original Samaritan was always destined to be a judgemental little poo poo with a messiah complex, or if Greer also got to it and altered it to suit his beliefs, I don't really know. Greer seemed to imply that he didn't actually alter Samaritan's core operating philosophy, he just gave it the means to become god and let it do its own thing.
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Jun 16, 2016 06:55
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Chasiubao posted:I think this is a pretty weird time to suddenly start demanding realism Yeah I suppose but the worst part isn't how unrealistic it is, it's that it's so obviously a last minute asspull and one that is used to defeat the primary villain of the show no less.
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Jun 16, 2016 09:42
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Fusco getting shot in the vest is a nice callback/bookend to John shooting him in the back when he first met him. "Do you have your vest on Officer?".
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Jun 16, 2016 11:38
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CBS have done an extended trailer, apparently it's not so much trailer as revealing swathes of the ending and, supposedly, gives away some really key moments.
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Jun 16, 2016 12:06
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oohhboy posted:Fusco getting shot in the vest is a nice callback/bookend to John shooting him in the back when he first met him. "Do you have your vest on Officer?". You've got to wonder why when John gets shot so, so often he never wore a vest like Fusco did as a cop.
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Jun 16, 2016 12:55
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Party Plane Jones posted:You've got to wonder why when John gets shot so, so often he never wore a vest like Fusco did as a cop. He does at least some of the time.
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Jun 16, 2016 13:11
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pasaluki posted:Was that virus designed by Finch or that guy who he stole the ID from? Neither. The virus was taken from a base a couple of episodes back. I'm guessing it was something created by the military for cyber warfare purposes (like a Stuxnet.)
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Jun 16, 2016 13:42
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berzerkmonkey posted:Neither. The virus was taken from a base a couple of episodes back. I'm guessing it was something created by the military for cyber warfare purposes (like a Stuxnet.) I assume it's Cryptolocker and the finale is going to be all about Blackwell frantically researching how to buy bitcoins.
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Jun 16, 2016 14:00
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It turns out Finch's real name was Satoshi all along.
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Jun 16, 2016 18:12
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That was, on the whole, a fantastic episode (if a bit silly in places, but I'm fine with this show being a bit silly). I wish there could have been a bit more exploration of just what it was that Samaritan thought it was safeguarding humanity from; it certainly sounded like it had predicted some specific extinction-level event looming over humanity ("The Great Filter", I think Greer called it) that it was trying to stave off by optimizing human society to the extent that it could. And of course Greer's attempt to kill Harold was a pure Bond Villain trap (which makes sense, I suppose, since Greer's origin story was basically 'what if James Bond said gently caress MI6 one day'). One thing I am a bit disappointed about, though. I had thought that the last of the 'What If There Had Been No Machine' simulations was going to be a list of all the "irrelevant" people whose lives wouldn't have been saved or whose crimes wouldn't have been stopped. Of course, I'm not sure how you show that to Harold and not convince him that he's on the wrong path, and I suppose he needed to end the episode convinced he was doing a terrible thing for the greater good. But I'd still have liked it acknowledged, since I think the thematic heart of this show has always been that individual lives are more important than national security or grand ASI schemes or whatnot. Of course, there's still room for them to hit that in the finale, and I feel like they probably will. Still, it felt weird ignoring it here.
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Jun 16, 2016 20:00
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Something just occured to me. Assuming Ice-9.exe is as devastating as its literary namesake, then Finch could have theoretically introduced it to Samaritan from anywhere. He certainly wouldn't have had to break into Fort Meade to do it; it's not as though Samaritan is housed there (and the Machine certainly isn't). But what presumably is housed there is the infrastructure for the NSA's surveillance feeds, and I think that's what Finch was really attacking (if only as a secondary target). Without the infrastructure to monitor and infiltrate every camera and computer in the world (and we can take it as read that the damage Ice-9 would do there would be irreparable, or at least not trivial to repair), even if they could restore Samaritan or the Machine from a backup, or if another ASI were created, their power would be substantially limited. Also I just watched The Crossing again, and I'm about to watch The Devil's Share, and goddamn that is some good TV.
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Jun 17, 2016 00:59
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docbeard posted:That was, on the whole, a fantastic episode (if a bit silly in places, but I'm fine with this show being a bit silly). I wish there could have been a bit more exploration of just what it was that Samaritan thought it was safeguarding humanity from; it certainly sounded like it had predicted some specific extinction-level event looming over humanity ("The Great Filter", I think Greer called it) that it was trying to stave off by optimizing human society to the extent that it could. The Great Filter is a theoretical solution to Fermi's Paradox, in that as an intelligent species advances technologically they will inevitably reach a point where they are capable of destroying themselves, and that most of them do so before they reach the capability of interstellar travel. Essentially Samaritan believed it could successfully shepherd humanity past this largely unsolved problem. The thing is, there's no reason the Great Filter has to even exist, humanity has no reason to extend its reach outside of the solar system aside from arrogance and a fear of extinction. The only existential threats to humanity aside from itself and the consequences of our own actions are so far in the future the human race will probably 'naturally' go extinct long before then. The same would apply to any alien species with a similar level of technology.
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Jun 17, 2016 01:27
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I don't think Samaritan thinks humanity will go extinct because of a theoretical problem though. My impression is that its simulations are telling it that we're extremely likely to blow it on our own. I mean everything Samaritan says could be a lie, but I think we're supposed to believe that it's sincere about what it says. Harold will doom the world before he'll kill one innocent, but Samaritan thinks it's insane not to do whatever it takes to achieve what it sees as the greater good.
Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Jun 17, 2016 |
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Jun 17, 2016 01:29
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Kwyndig posted:The Great Filter is a theoretical solution to Fermi's Paradox, in that as an intelligent species advances technologically they will inevitably reach a point where they are capable of destroying themselves, and that most of them do so before they reach the capability of interstellar travel. Essentially Samaritan believed it could successfully shepherd humanity past this largely unsolved problem. I see you have never looked at a history book.
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Jun 17, 2016 01:50
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Finch's rescue of Shaw & Reese was the highlight of the episode for me. Nathan Ingram & Detective Szymanski alive in the Samaritan alt-history was  The 8 digit voice password, & Snowden's wifi hotspot propogating to other floors/wifi networks was cheesy but hey the endgame had to fit in 2 episodes somehow.
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Jun 17, 2016 01:54
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Congratulations to Peter Collier for getting out of the show early enough to be able to now be Tony Award Winning.
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Jun 17, 2016 14:31
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Kwyndig posted:The Great Filter is a theoretical solution to Fermi's Paradox, in that as an intelligent species advances technologically they will inevitably reach a point where they are capable of destroying themselves, and that most of them do so before they reach the capability of interstellar travel. Essentially Samaritan believed it could successfully shepherd humanity past this largely unsolved problem. I assume you don't believe in man made global warming or know how close we have been to starting nuclear wars.
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Jun 17, 2016 14:37
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Atreiden posted:I assume you don't believe in man made global warming or know how close we have been to starting nuclear wars. I don't know how you got that from his post? He was quite clearly discounting human-caused extinction events and instead referring to stuff like the sun going out in 5 billion odd years.
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Jun 17, 2016 14:51
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Cat Army 
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The Iron Rose posted:I don't know how you got that from his post? He was quite clearly discounting human-caused extinction events and instead referring to stuff like the sun going out in 5 billion odd years. you are right, I read it as him saying the consequences of our actions were so far out in the future that they didn't matter.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:14
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Just in case if anyone was wondering, like I was, Bear has been played by a new actor this season. I was sure he looked different (and younger)! Gotcha is only 2 years old 
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Jun 17, 2016 16:49
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Kwyndig posted:The Great Filter is a theoretical solution to Fermi's Paradox, in that as an intelligent species advances technologically they will inevitably reach a point where they are capable of destroying themselves, and that most of them do so before they reach the capability of interstellar travel. Essentially Samaritan believed it could successfully shepherd humanity past this largely unsolved problem. Well, one reason to shepherd humanity into the stars is, as I believe was said through Samarikid once, that Samaritan exists to know things, and humanity is its (current) conduit to knowing things, I guess kind of like Brainiac. The farther it can spread its reach, the more it can know.
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Jun 17, 2016 16:52
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Sammy hasn't figured out or hasn't reached the point where it can Skynet everyone.
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Jun 17, 2016 17:07
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Senerio posted:Congratulations to Peter Collier for getting out of the show early enough to be able to now be Tony Award Winning. Fun fact: fellow Hamilton cast member and Tony nominee Chris Jackson was also in this show! He played a security guard in the episode with the Asian acrobat thief.
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Jun 17, 2016 17:22
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I eagerly await the return of Chekhov's missile.
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Jun 17, 2016 18:48
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Spergatory posted:Fun fact: fellow Hamilton cast member and Tony nominee Chris Jackson was also in this show! He played a security guard in the episode with the Asian acrobat thief. And just about every Tony nominee was an extra/minor character on Law&Order at some point. Some multiple times
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Jun 17, 2016 18:50
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Mr. Horyd posted:I eagerly await the return of Chekhov's missile.  I hope it pays off seeing that other missile did and did it quite quickly.
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Jun 17, 2016 19:08
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Fhqwhgads posted:And just about every Tony nominee was an extra/minor character on Law&Order at some point. Some multiple times Yeah, but Law and Order was on the air for like a thousand years and had eleventy different spinoffs. If you were an actor of any sort in New York, it would've been hard not to appear on it at some point.
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Jun 17, 2016 19:38
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Fhqwhgads posted:And just about every Tony nominee was an extra/minor character on Law&Order at some point. Some multiple times Some were cast members and won Tonys
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Jun 17, 2016 20:05
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Terry Grunthouse posted:Just in case if anyone was wondering, like I was, Bear has been played by a new actor this season. I was sure he looked different (and younger)! Gotcha is only 2 years old Thank you! I was wondering about this. I first noticed that Bear looked different in Shaw's simulation episode, but I chalked it up to Samaritan getting Bear "kinda right, kinda wrong" like how the simulation versions of Finch, Reese, and Root were all a little off.
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Jun 17, 2016 21:56
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In Shaws simulation episode Samaritan tells her that its already stopped terrorist acts that would've eventually led to global thermo nuclear exchanges. Of course She's probably prevented that poo poo seven times over in the ISA but I think that's Samaritans goal, assuming it doesn't induce the end of the world when it goes full SKYNET or full AM.
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Jun 17, 2016 23:49
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That bridge Finch first met Reese, is that where Reese was going to kill himself ?
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Jun 18, 2016 18:53
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Here is a Westworld trailer for some consolation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX3u0IlBBO4
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Jun 20, 2016 02:37
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Well, this is it y'all. I'd say it's been one hell of a 5 year experience(even that one year that made raditts really angry had its moments), so I hope you'll all be around for TONIGHT'S PERSON OF INTEREST SERIES FINALE: return 0Synopsis:Finch, Reese, Fusco and Shaw embark on one last mission to prevent Samaritan from destroying the Machine and cementing its hold over mankind. Preview Feel free to come livewatch with us in the TVIV IRC Channel! One final time, my fellow Canadians getting the Maritime airing early please refrain posting spoilers until the east coast airing at 10pm EST concludes.
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Jun 21, 2016 07:24
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It is amazing how much the scope of the show has changed from when it started. I liked the first two seasons, but season three was really when I started to love this show.
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Jun 21, 2016 08:01
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I'm gonna miss this show so goddamn much after tonight. 
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Jun 21, 2016 08:32
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I'm not ready for this. 
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Jun 21, 2016 10:27
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I don't wanna say goodbye
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Jun 21, 2016 13:39
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I'm excited but also sad. Really, really sad.
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Jun 21, 2016 14:01
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I love this weird, awesome show and I'm sad I discovered it so late. There's a different experience with bingeing a show vs taking it in over time, letting the characters and plotlines and themes percolate in your head. As fun as it was to binge, this is one crazy train I wouldn't have minded riding for the full trip. Or at least from season 2 onward.
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Jun 21, 2016 15:33
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