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Lladre posted:Have at it. It's good enough for the likes of me, thank you cat edit: When local physics grids collide 
his nibs fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Jun 21, 2016 |
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Jun 21, 2016 19:48
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his nibs posted:your dog is cool anywhere thank you commando. I wanted to make a moma "I want to believe" joke but tbh I'm phoning things in today. I like your av btw
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Jun 21, 2016 19:48
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Lladre posted:Why do you need to go through customs if you are leaving? Do they have some special thing they want to make sure no one takes off from the planet with? All customs work for the Fourth Stimpire.
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Jun 21, 2016 19:48
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Samizdata posted:There's always one more sucker in the world. (cf Amway, Church of Scientology, Herbalife) This scam is extra brilliant though because the scamees don't actually get anything out of it by leading other people in to the scam. At least with Kirby Vacuums or Herbalife if you get enough idiots to sign up you become an idiot warlord over your pack of idiots and get some tiny benefit (while the idiot warlord that recruited you benefits) and then they have to try and con people so that they can become idiot warlords pushing you up the pyramid. In Star Citizen they are preaching the gospel for free because they have convinced themselves they always wanted to be scammed and that being scammed is all the benefit they need.
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Jun 21, 2016 19:50
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ManofManyAliases posted:There are over 150 employees in UK between those two offices working on "refactoring" the engine, procedural gen, etc. Like I've mentioned before: I feel there's a lot yet to be revealed. Ok, it's my time to say it now, you don't understand software development. Refactoring doesn't change the functional requirements of the system, it doesn't imply anything but a restructuring, that is, you refactor a codebase to restructure it, in order to improve manageability and maintainability. Ultimately this can be broken down as "turning functional yet poo poo code into code other programmers can easily understand". Structural changes may introduce more code (i.e, IoC patterns like dependency injection are usually quite verbose), but nothing that actually alters how the business logic of the application works. What they're doing is not a refactorization of any kind. They're rewriting, pure and simple. They have parts of the engine they can't use and have to throw away in order to make way for new ones. This wouldn't be such a problem if it weren't being done well after production already started, a good adage software developers often follow is that a week in planning saves a month in implementation. I understand that requisites may change during development (This is why Agile is a thing), but doing massive structural changes while simultaneously adding on new content to show to users is doomed for disaster, I've seen multiple examples of it in my time. They should have figured out that the default CryEngine 3 netcode, for example, wouldn't have been able to scale at all with the scope of the project, this is an obvious tech requirement any decent developer can see as necessary. Archeage, a Cryengine 3 MMO considered this in the planning phase and thus built that before everything else, resulting in servers that can hold 3000 simultaneous players and instances that can hold hundreds without any significant increase in latency, they even deliberately tested naval battles and they can manage to have 20 large ships in a single area, all filled with people, without the server crashing. You can't have 20 players in Star Citizen standing next to each other without the client crashing. My problem with the game is that their core tech is poo poo, and if changing that before implementing anything would have taken them a year, changing it during production will take them 3 or 4 easily.
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Jun 21, 2016 19:50
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NEW LETTER FORM THE CHAREMANquote:Now that I am back in Los Angeles I thought I would write a letter to all of you who have backed Star Citizen. I haven’t had the chance to communicate to everyone as frequently as I normally have due to my directing duties on the Squadron 42 performance capture shoot. Directing a shoot is a pretty intensive affair which absorbed most of my time. The rest of the hours I wasn’t sleeping were taken up with the business of directing a game as large as Star Citizen with video conferences and emails or online collaboration with the six development studios spread across two continents and six time zones. To help address some of the questions that came up during the shoot, I’ve put together a special 10 for the Chairman companion piece to this letter, which you can find here. Actually it's almost a year old but how the gently caress would you know that
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Jun 21, 2016 19:55
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Beet Wagon posted:thank you commando. I wanted to make a moma "I want to believe" joke but tbh I'm phoning things in today. Cheers dude, I'm merely leeching off others' talent!  everything's comin up : kayak :
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Jun 21, 2016 19:55
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It's loving eerie how nothing's happened since quote:It seems some gaming outlets got a little confused with my last FPS letter, which was no different to the one that we did back in May to let people know where we were on Star Marine / the FPS module. As you all know we are shy of announcing firm dates for module releases until they are in the Public Test Universe (PTU) as it’s hard to predict exact dates in open development, especially in the stages that still involve R&D, unless you build in large time buffers. We have been burned by this multiple times before so I have heeded all your wishes to not give out dates until we are sure. Perhaps we stressed the point a little too strongly as suddenly gaming websites were running with the headline, “Star Citizen FPS delayed indefinitely!” which was unfortunate as this phrase is usually a euphemism for a project being put on indefinite hold or canceled. Coincidentally this is the last Letter form the Chareman Chris's bothered to write (published 20th of July)
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Jun 21, 2016 19:58
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Derek Smart represents the inescapable clutches that is Earth's gravity.
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Jun 21, 2016 19:59
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ManofManyAliases posted:And even then, a release in 2017-18 would be 6-7 years total, which is still on par with large projects. And they have until 2027 before folks can compare it to Duke Nukem Forever!
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Jun 21, 2016 19:59
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best post
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Jun 21, 2016 20:00
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fnox posted:Ok, it's my time to say it now, you don't understand software development. Refactoring doesn't change the functional requirements of the system, it doesn't imply anything but a restructuring, that is, you refactor a codebase to restructure it, in order to improve manageability and maintainability. Ultimately this can be broken down as "turning functional yet poo poo code into code other programmers can easily understand". Structural changes may introduce more code (i.e, IoC patterns like dependency injection are usually quite verbose), but nothing that actually alters how the business logic of the application works. Woah dude that's one nasty hit below the belt Eh? Below the belt, eh?
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Jun 21, 2016 20:00
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:It's loving eerie how nothing's happened since In your hands, sooner than later. What a buffoon.
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Jun 21, 2016 20:00
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C-Bangin' it 
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I like that the backer defense has morphed with this barely operable lovely alpha to the fact that CIG is somehow designing their game completely backwards and obviously have all the work they need to have done completed, somehow, hidden because they don't yet have an engine / networking codebase to
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Jun 21, 2016 20:00
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Fat Shat Sings posted:This scam is extra brilliant though because the scamees don't actually get anything out of it by leading other people in to the scam. Dunno. What do the referral codes get you? And never discount the power of the feeling of superiority over others. "Nice little Mustang Alpha there, pleb. I am off in my Starfarer. Have fun, mudperson."
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Jun 21, 2016 20:01
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it doesn't even make sense that they have some super secret developer build, for a game that relies on crowd funding why would they do anything but put their best foot forward at every possible opportunity, rather than a broken piece of poo poo ALPHA PU that has to turn more people away than it brings in. No, the Alpha PU is the best foot forward.
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Jun 21, 2016 20:03
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You all know that already; you’ve lived that. You’ve seen Star Citizen evolve and start to come together. You’ve watched our atoms form molecules, our modules form a real, playable game (that you can boot up and play today!). There are people out there who are going to tell you that this is all a BAD THING. That it’s ‘feature creep’ and we should make a smaller, less impressive game for the sake of having it out more quickly or in order to meet artificial deadlines. Now I’ll answer those claims in one word: Bullshit! Star Citizen matters BECAUSE it is big, because it is a bold dream. It is something everyone else is scared to try. You didn’t back Star Citizen because you want what you’ve seen before. You’re here and reading this because we are willing to go big, to do the things that terrify publishers. You’ve trusted us with your money so we can build a game, not line our pockets. And we sure as hell didn’t run this campaign so we could put that money in the bank, guarantee ourselves a profit and turn out some flimsy replica of a game I’ve made before. You went all in supporting us and we’ve gone all in making the game. Is Star Citizen today a bigger goal than I imagined in 2012? Absolutely. Is that a bad thing? Absolutely not: it’s the whole drat point.
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Jun 21, 2016 20:03
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Is ‘feature creep’ a worry? Sure… it’s always a worry, and we are well aware of it. However, building the game to the stretch goals embraced and endorsed by the community is not feature creep! We made the decision to stop stretch goals at the end of last year. That was a hard choice to abandon one of the central tenets of crowd funding projects, the idea that the sky is the limit… but it’s one we felt we had to make for the better of the game. Today, we have a radical design that’s like nothing else in the industry and we’re building towards it every hour of every day. We count on the community’s continued support to build the game to the high level that we set out to accomplish. Allowing independent authors to do more is the point of crowd funding, and going beyond our limitations is the entire point of Star Citizen. Occasionally I see comments out there from people who haven’t taken the time to watch the thousands of YouTube videos of people running around their ships and hangars or dogfighting in space, or visit our site to read the vast amount of information we make publicly available that call us vaporware or a glorified tech demo. Arena Commander, which is still evolving, is a better looking and playing game than a lot of finished games out there. We are maintaining a live game and building one all at the same time. It’s harder than just developing, as most companies that run online games will tell you, but it’s worth it, both to ensure you get to experience features as soon as they are ready and to make a better game in the long run.
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Jun 21, 2016 20:05
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ManofManyAliases posted:Yes - I don't disagree. I want to believe that there is a significant amount of work done that just hasn't been shown. What we see in PU can't be indicative of all this other work they say they're doing over in the UK (on the backend). 
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Jun 21, 2016 20:06
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This Chris Roberts guy is pure gold I tell no lie Though, reading it, I'm pretty sure Ben actually wrote most/all of it
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Jun 21, 2016 20:06
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Samizdata posted:There's always one more sucker in the world. (cf Amway, Church of Scientology, Herbalife) 
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Jun 21, 2016 20:07
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Tank Boy Ken posted:Yeah just think of the possible headlines: Star Citisn't
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Jun 21, 2016 20:08
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Hillary Clintons Thong posted:it doesn't even make sense that they have some super secret developer build, for a game that relies on crowd funding why would they do anything but put their best foot forward at every possible opportunity, rather than a broken piece of poo poo ALPHA PU that has to turn more people away than it brings in. I'd be curious what the sentiment would be if the "great asset leak" didn't occur. That showed they do a lot of work and is used as evidence that the game is just around the corner...but of course the work is re-done 10 times so no actual work towards progress is made.
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Jun 21, 2016 20:08
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Hillary Clintons Thong posted:it doesn't even make sense that they have some super secret developer build, for a game that relies on crowd funding why would they do anything but put their best foot forward at every possible opportunity, rather than a broken piece of poo poo ALPHA PU that has to turn more people away than it brings in. It doesn't make sense but it's the easiest way to justify terrible financial decisions and delusional, childish thinking. Of course they have the game they promised completely hidden and are working on it behind the scenes, the only other option is that this is a huge joke that is never coming out and is years late for what amounts to a Crysis mod.
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Jun 21, 2016 20:08
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ManofManyAliases posted:Yes - I don't disagree. I want to believe that there is a significant amount of work done that just hasn't been shown. What we see in PU can't be indicative of all this other work they say they're doing over in the UK (on the backend). So you want to believe. But do you still believe? Or have you lost some faith? You essentially told us that you're not having complete faith in this Project. Also: Kotaku http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/06/20/star-citizen-changes-terms-of-service-to-make-it-more-difficult-to-get-a-refund Gameranx http://gameranx.com/updates/id/60710/article/star-citizen-terms-of-service-changes-makes-it-difficult-to-refund/ Eurogamer http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-06-21-star-citizen-terms-of-service-update-makes-it-a-bit-harder-to-get-a-refund
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Jun 21, 2016 20:09
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Hillary Clintons Thong posted:it doesn't even make sense that they have some super secret developer build, for a game that relies on crowd funding why would they do anything but put their best foot forward at every possible opportunity, rather than a broken piece of poo poo ALPHA PU that has to turn more people away than it brings in. It's the anti-smart strategy: They are just letting derek grow confident before they stick the most fidelitious knife ever on his back. This will also help identify the leavers, special snowflakes, and other undesirables so that when they come crawling back, begging to be citizens, they can be denied the pleasure.
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Jun 21, 2016 20:09
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Wise Learned Man posted:Star Citisn't YES [blank] is what Star Citisn't Line of Defense/Elite/NMS/ME:A etc
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Jun 21, 2016 20:10
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Samizdata posted:Dunno. What do the referral codes get you? And never discount the power of the feeling of superiority over others. Sure, at least until you try to land the Starfarer, or fly it anywhere, or even walk around in it for that matter.
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Jun 21, 2016 20:12
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Beet Wagon posted:Sure, at least until you try to land the Starfarer, or fly it anywhere, or even walk around in it for that matter. One of the things that most put me off about SWTOR was having to run to the ship, a door then run tot he cockpit. The starfarer is like running from the city market to the port to the ship to the cockpit, every time you get into it. To say this poo poo will get old fast is an understatement. Let's just say that magically somehow this game actually got created with multiple people in instances. Guilds would have to pay members incentives to get them to fly these pieces of fun sucking corridor running ships.
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Jun 21, 2016 20:18
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orcinus posted:Took me a minute to realize "cotton mouth" is not Roberts. He sent Sandi after him again, this time in the form of a swamp serpent called a Water Moccasin aka Cotton Mouth, a potential fatally poisonous aquatic snake in the viper family. Luckily can bite without envenoming and it was just a warning bite in this case which was a good thing, because Legman was too far away to help this time 
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Jun 21, 2016 20:18
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Fat Shat Sings posted:It doesn't make sense but it's the easiest way to justify terrible financial decisions and delusional, childish thinking. Because, as long as there's a secret fully functional dev build, there is hope. Not just a giant pile of crappy written (Sorry for the WH40K reference) scrapcode.
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Jun 21, 2016 20:22
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Scruffpuff posted:The bolded portion is really all there is to it. If you want to believe that the talent is making more progress than management is revealing, then that's your prerogative. Out of curiosity, what do you think your personal breaking point is - the point where you go "oh, poo poo..." I know I said it a number of times: I really expect at least a mission or two out of SQ42 this year as a teaser, with release of SQ42 next year (summer maybe)? And I'm thinking we'll enter beta by the end of next year with full release in 2018. That said, my 'oh-poo poo' moment will likely be observation of progress by end of Q2 next year: if procedural tech, netcode and and other gameplay mechanics aren't more refined at that point, it's probably too far past a salvage point. Then again, I fully expect the grey-market to still be a viable alternative to offload most of my assets, even by Summer of next year.
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Jun 21, 2016 20:23
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Beet Wagon posted:Sure, at least until you try to land the Starfarer, or fly it anywhere, or even walk around in it for that matter. Look, man, that'll be fixed in beta 97.4! I still have a Starfarer AND the Million Mile High club! What about you, eh?
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Jun 21, 2016 20:24
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Hillary Clintons Thong posted:it doesn't even make sense that they have some super secret developer build, for a game that relies on crowd funding why would they do anything but put their best foot forward at every possible opportunity, rather than a broken piece of poo poo ALPHA PU that has to turn more people away than it brings in. Exactly this. And this is also why I fluctuate between laughing my rear end off and tearing my hair out when interacting with the SC faithful on reddit. You can explain your (our, I suppose) position completely logically with indisputable reason and they're just like 'but.. secret dev build' or 'I just want the shiny'. If they had anything that was considerably better than what they have now, why wouldn't they show it? Why? Because spoilers?! Don't make me loving cringe. The whole point is that they would have better gameplay systems, not just the odd set piece which is being used in Sq42. They're supposed to be releasing a AAA rivalling game in less than 6 months time and they haven't shown a single piece of competent AI. No, not 20 generic spacemen walking in a scene without bumping into each other! I'm talking about actual loving NPC AI. FPS enemies taking cover behind terrain, running to get into/away from the action, awareness of a players presence and calling in reinforcements, you know, all the poo poo that actual games have had for goddamn decades! This poo poo is so basic it's just loving astounding that they don't have it. They could tear it out from the original bloody Half-life ffs or even.. I dunno.. Crysis?!
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Jun 21, 2016 20:27
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ManofManyAliases posted:Then again, I fully expect the grey-market to still be a viable alternative to offload most of my assets, even by Summer of next year. stiff competition but the funniest part of this sentence is the reference to "assets"
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Jun 21, 2016 20:29
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ManofManyAliases posted:I want to believe that there is a significant amount of work done that just hasn't been shown. Why. Because they say so? What possible benefit do they have of not showing additional things they have unless its just bullshit that as long as they don't break the illusion idiots will continue to believe and continue to parrot to others? ManofManyAliases posted:What we see in PU can't be indicative of all this other work they say they're doing over in the UK (on the backend). You keep saying this. Why MUST this be true beyond you want to believe its true? ManofManyAliases posted:Then again, I fully expect the grey-market to still be a viable alternative to offload most of my assets, even by Summer of next year. If I was a shittier person it would be at this point that I'd realize my client was a sucker and would just laugh my way to the bank. Of course if they had revealed that they were a libertarian I'd probably do it anyways and shrug about how the free market had spoken. Sedisp fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Jun 21, 2016 |
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Jun 21, 2016 20:29
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comment on eurogamer article "maddinrobert2 hours ago@Dappa mainly positiv. Reply0/0-+wikidd2 hours agoI lodged a claim in County Court earlier in the year to get my refund. As soon as I'd done that they gave me the full amount asked for plus costs in full and final settlement. Thankfully they have offices in Manchester you can serve, which is nice for those of us in the UK. In your claim make sure to state that under EU law, you have the right to a refund 14 days after they have delivered the thing they promised. As they haven't finished delivering Star Citizen, that period cannot possibly have expired. They'll more than likely settle the claim like they did for me so as to avoid a bad precedent for themselves."
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Jun 21, 2016 20:33
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The most hosed up part about this isn't that its a terrible analogy, it's that Star Citizen backers think they are involved in something as big as the invention of the airplane.
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Jun 21, 2016 20:34
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Sedisp posted:Why. Because they say so? What possible benefit do they have of not showing additional things they have unless its just bullshit that as long as they don't break the illusion idiots will continue to believe and continue to parrot to others? No - not just because they say so. Could it be that there are over 150 people in two locations and no dissent among them? I mean, if there was no work or no progression, wouldn't there be more of a mass exodus? Or - at the least - wouldn't there be more outward communication portraying CIG in a negative light? Discord and forums are literally full of developers and designers saying (this is what I'm working on now, and this is what's going on, we're building this, etc..). Are those all strategic and well-placed lies?
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Jun 21, 2016 20:34
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Lladre posted:One of the things that most put me off about SWTOR was having to run to the ship, a door then run tot he cockpit. And that's even assuming they manage to fix all the spots where you fall through the drat floor. Not to mention the loving view. I feel bad for anyone who is excited to spend the next ten years screwing around in one of those things. Thoatse posted:He sent Sandi after him again, this time in the form of a swamp serpent called a Water Moccasin aka Cotton Mouth, a potential fatally poisonous aquatic snake in the viper family.  Sandi still hasn't gotten a hold of me yet. Knock on wood.
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Jun 21, 2016 20:34
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