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Sober posted:I checked the cast/credits but no it's not Lasky, but it sure looked close enough to cause some confusion I think. Aww boo  I thought I was so clever.
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Jun 24, 2016 12:06
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NoDamage posted:You're not the only one. I thought this entire season was a huge disappointment compared to previous seasons (especially S1-S3). The dialogue in the finale felt forced and awkward. The plot kept jumping all over the place. This show has been previously masterful at building suspenseful plots but ever since the Samaritan storyline took center stage, things have gone downhill. I think the dialogue was pretty awkward all season, and overly expository. Maybe it always was though, and the long break just contributed to me not being used to it anymore. This may not be a popular sentiment, but I didn't really think the Root and Shaw romance arc was very good either. They were never actually a couple before Shaw got captured, but Root in particular kept going on about being willing to die for Shaw and her life not having meaning without her, and Shaw pretty much did the tv sociopath equivalent eventually. The post-mortem love letter about how it was cool that Shaw's a sociopath because it keeps her on track was pretty dumb too.
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Jun 24, 2016 15:12
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Sinteres posted:This may not be a popular sentiment, but I didn't really think the Root and Shaw romance arc was very good either. They were never actually a couple before Shaw got captured, but Root in particular kept going on about being willing to die for Shaw and her life not having meaning without her, and Shaw pretty much did the tv sociopath equivalent eventually. The post-mortem love letter about how it was cool that Shaw's a sociopath because it keeps her on track was pretty dumb too. ...So? You don't have to have the "will you be my girlfriend?" talk before you can give that much of a poo poo about each other.
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Jun 24, 2016 15:39
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Sinteres posted:I think the dialogue was pretty awkward all season, and overly expository. Maybe it always was though, and the long break just contributed to me not being used to it anymore. This may not be a popular sentiment, but I didn't really think the Root and Shaw romance arc was very good either. They were never actually a couple before Shaw got captured, but Root in particular kept going on about being willing to die for Shaw and her life not having meaning without her, and Shaw pretty much did the tv sociopath equivalent eventually. The post-mortem love letter about how it was cool that Shaw's a sociopath because it keeps her on track was pretty dumb too. If I remember correctly, when the Samaritan storyline started up, the show runners stated that it was Act 2 of a three-act story. Season 5 was an effort to wrap up the first four seasons, as well as shoehorn in what would have been content from an additional four seasons. Having a half-season didn't help in that either, as they pretty much had to explain everything to the viewers, as they didn't have time to slowly drip feed us details. I think something that would have helped this season was just dumping the Blackwell character altogether. It would have allowed more time to focus on the rest of the story and maybe not felt like a wasted sidetrack every time he was on screen. Apparently, the intent was to have him act as a mirror to the "Team Machine" analog (salvation vs. descent; responsibility vs. blindly following, etc.,) and I think he could have worked if there were an extra season or two, but in the current season, he was something that distracted from the resolution of the story. I agree with you on Root and Shaw, especially the simulated make out session - that was not at all enjoyable to watch, especially since neither of them really had any chemistry together. If Shaw had ever displayed any affection to Root at all during the show's run, it might have been a different matter, but she was always so standoffish that you never really got any sense that she would (or could) reciprocate Root's affection.
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Jun 24, 2016 15:40
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xeria posted:...So? You don't have to have the "will you be my girlfriend?" talk before you can give that much of a poo poo about each other. There's a difference between giving a poo poo and 'you're the most important thing that's ever happened in my life even though you're a sociopath who only showed interest in me one time after I stalked you like a crazy person and you said no over and over again.' berzerkmonkey posted:If I remember correctly, when the Samaritan storyline started up, the show runners stated that it was Act 2 of a three-act story. Season 5 was an effort to wrap up the first four seasons, as well as shoehorn in what would have been content from an additional four seasons. Having a half-season didn't help in that either, as they pretty much had to explain everything to the viewers, as they didn't have time to slowly drip feed us details. I get how they might have felt constrained by a short season after having so many episodes before, but after watching how much plot prestige dramas can put in 13 or fewer episode seasons, I don't know that I buy that it's really that confining. Wasting time on stuff like the Blackwell plot obviously didn't help, and presumably the network pressuring them to at least make a token effort to stick to the procedural backbone as long as possible didn't either. Their romance really felt like a really big example of telling rather than showing. The show told us it was a big deal, but what it showed us wasn't much. Maybe that got accelerated too because of Sarah Shahi's pregnancy, and would have otherwise felt more organic, but as it was it felt artificial as hell. Shaw being a sociopath would have probably been a pretty big limiting factor in any case though.
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Jun 24, 2016 15:48
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Sinteres posted:I get how they might have felt constrained by a short season after having so many episodes before, but after watching how much plot prestige dramas can put in 13 or fewer episode seasons, I don't know that I buy that it's really that confining. 100% agreed, but those writers are used to a shorter format, and usually don't have to stick in a bunch of plot points that they only had scribbled on index cards for use in a couple of years.
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Jun 24, 2016 15:54
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docbeard posted:You could probably argue that doing nothing but telling a baby ASI "hi, we are your faithful servants, what would you like us to do" is, in effect, doing something to shape it whether that was Greer's intent or not. Yeah, Greer says a lot of things but we all know he's completely full of poo poo and probably doesn't even realize what influence he's having. Jackson Taus posted:The Machine in the subway at the end of the episode was the one that downloaded itself from the satellite on the next orbit, and the one Harold was carrying around was the one stolen by Reese to upload to the satellite (which was then destroyed by the missile). Was it? I don't recall seeing anything in the episode to support that. GrandpaPants posted:I would say Simmons had a good death, it just wasn't a glorious one. But it was right. I thought Aaron Burr getting unceremoniously shot in the back by Greer was pretty appropriate for how his arc turned out. But.. Hersch...  Speaking of, whatever became of Control? I guess we just assume she was killed? raditts fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Jun 24, 2016 |
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Jun 24, 2016 16:26
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raditts posted:Yeah, Greer says a lot of things but we all know he's completely full of poo poo and probably doesn't even realize what influence he's having. Finch had (or at least thought he did) the machine copy in his 'thermonuclear' briefcase. Reese presumably makes the swap at some point, since he has it on the roof with the satellite dish. From there, there's the AI fistfight on the satellite and then the computers on the subway light up, a download bar is shown, then the Machine's recording starts to play after the new one boots up and looks for a task. And yeah, Control's in the deepest, darkest hole Greer/Samaritan could find.
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Jun 24, 2016 17:26
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raditts posted:Was it? I don't recall seeing anything in the episode to support that. We get a shot of the satellite rotating to get it's dish pointed at the Earth before we cut back to the flurry of activity in the subway. Edit: A second looks shows the first computer screen to turn on displays the text "Downloading satellite data..." Mr. Horyd fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Jun 24, 2016 |
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Jun 24, 2016 17:59
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raditts posted:Yeah, Greer says a lot of things but we all know he's completely full of poo poo and probably doesn't even realize what influence he's having.
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Jun 24, 2016 18:23
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Sinteres posted:I get how they might have felt constrained by a short season after having so many episodes before, but after watching how much plot prestige dramas can put in 13 or fewer episode seasons, I don't know that I buy that it's really that confining. There's a difference between "I plotted out for 13 episodes of material and now have to film it accordingly" and "I plotted out for 22+ (or 44+, depending on the producer interview) episodes of material and now have to shove it into 13". You can agree or disagree that they handled that condensed narrative well, especially with CBS still insisting they keep the Numbers procedural format, but comparing it to what, say, an HBO show does with its relatively short seasons is missing the point by a pretty wide margin.
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Jun 24, 2016 19:14
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xeria posted:There's a difference between "I plotted out for 13 episodes of material and now have to film it accordingly" and "I plotted out for 22+ (or 44+, depending on the producer interview) episodes of material and now have to shove it into 13". You can agree or disagree that they handled that condensed narrative well, especially with CBS still insisting they keep the Numbers procedural format, but comparing it to what, say, an HBO show does with its relatively short seasons is missing the point by a pretty wide margin. I'm actually glad they shortened it because I think the format was getting pretty stale and the shorter season added urgency. My contention is more that the narrative probably worked about as well as it was ever going to work, so to the extent that there were issues, I think it's more due to continued network pressure to keep procedural elements and some of the writing always being a little clunky and not quite living up to the heights of the show's big ideas than it is to an untimely cancellation. I still think the actual ending was about as satisfying as it could have been.
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Jun 24, 2016 19:25
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I think having a full season would have given them more of an opportunity to explore the world under Samaritan, which they were clearly aching to do (and did do, a bit), as well as allow other elements like the other Irrelevant teams to percolate a little more. With the 13 episode season, they really needed to tell a tight, focused story. Sure you can blame some of their failure to do so on CBS insisting on maintaining the procedural side of things (which I don't actually consider a problem except to the extent that it was just one more thing for them to juggle). But I think it ultimately came down to them being unwilling (or unable) to cut out things could have been cool but were not well-served by the shorter episode count (like Blackwell), and being forced to accelerate other things that should have had time to breathe. (Shaw's storyline being probably the worst offender in this category, though that was pretty much unavoidable because of Sarah Shahi's lack of availiability).
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Jun 24, 2016 19:50
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docbeard posted:Also, as it turned out, both Samaritan and the Machine did have copies out there. (Samaritan's in the Federal Reserve vault, the Machine's in the subway that came online at the end of the episode, plus the one that Harold was carrying around). I took that scene as it being the backup of the Machine (that was sent to the satellite) being downloaded back into the subway car PS3 array. When Shaw give the case to Finch she says it's only the Machine's core (or kernel?) - it's the Machine, but without all the memories it had built up. So when Machine 2.0 boots up in the subway, the monologue from its original version (which survived the internet crash because it was on tape) is triggered to play and give it that initial nudge back towards helping people instead of going full Samaritan.
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Jun 24, 2016 20:23
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WarLocke posted:I took that scene as it being the backup of the Machine (that was sent to the satellite) being downloaded back into the subway car PS3 array. When Shaw give the case to Finch she says it's only the Machine's core (or kernel?) - it's the Machine, but without all the memories it had built up. That makes sense. I like to think that they cut out a couple months' worth of high-pitched squealing from the tape as the Machine passed on its memory in analog audio format, though.
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Jun 24, 2016 20:29
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raditts posted:That makes sense. I like to think that they cut out a couple months' worth of high-pitched squealing from the tape as the Machine passed on its memory in analog audio format, though. I'm assuming a numbers station broadcasting to a roomful of data entry clerks at a Thornhill Industries Transcription Center was involved.
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Jun 24, 2016 20:32
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raditts posted:That makes sense. I like to think that they cut out a couple months' worth of high-pitched squealing from the tape as the Machine passed on its memory in analog audio format, though. Yeah, the Machine basically beat Samaritan to its exit strategy (use the satellite as a 'life boat' until the ice-9 virus totally crashed the internet, afterwards it would apparently be 'safe' to move back in - although you would think the satellite would have been ice'd as well). So when Samaritan's backup started streaming into the same satellite, it was faced by a full ASI backup which could mutilate it because Samaritan was in the middle of a transfer and vulnerable during a critical moment. Or at least that's how I'm taking it. I thought the finale was a great episode, but the season as a whole had a lot of problems (most because it was obvious that whole plotlines where being rushed through/truncated/dropped)
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Jun 24, 2016 20:52
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I am going to be the odd man out and say that i thought the season as a whole was great, there were a few storylines that had to get shortened, but it was nothing major.
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Jun 24, 2016 21:10
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Is there an updated Spotify list with the season 5 songs? Been listening to Bunsen Burner off and on today but know the soundtrack as a whole owns.
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Jun 24, 2016 21:12
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Oasx posted:I am going to be the odd man out and say that i thought the season as a whole was great, there were a few storylines that had to get shortened, but it was nothing major. 
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Jun 24, 2016 22:05
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It was fine, I just thought the last couple of seasons fell flat. Even then it was still better than a lot of tv but I have an inkling it's mostly because Michael Emmerson is a beast and carried the show 90% of the time.
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Jun 24, 2016 22:13
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Oasx posted:I am going to be the odd man out and say that i thought the season as a whole was great, there were a few storylines that had to get shortened, but it was nothing major. 
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Jun 24, 2016 22:14
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WarLocke posted:Yeah, the Machine basically beat Samaritan to its exit strategy (use the satellite as a 'life boat' until the ice-9 virus totally crashed the internet, afterwards it would apparently be 'safe' to move back in - although you would think the satellite would have been ice'd as well). So when Samaritan's backup started streaming into the same satellite, it was faced by a full ASI backup which could mutilate it because Samaritan was in the middle of a transfer and vulnerable during a critical moment.
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Jun 24, 2016 22:20
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Pretty much this when I said it earlier. They also foreshadow this if you look into the machine case, it has a fraction of memory chips it used to contain, the Machine is literally leaner than it was before.
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Jun 24, 2016 22:38
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oohhboy posted:Pretty much this when I said it earlier. They also foreshadow this if you look into the machine case, it has a fraction of memory chips it used to contain, the Machine is literally leaner than it was before. I think that was part that, part it actually had time to put the copy together this time. No laptops on ice this time. 
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Jun 24, 2016 22:47
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Tortolia posted:Is there an updated Spotify list with the season 5 songs? Been listening to Bunsen Burner off and on today but know the soundtrack as a whole owns. I made one here, removed a few outliers like "Song playing in extra's car for two seconds" and "MC Hammer Ringtone" I'm sorry if that ruins your immersion https://open.spotify.com/user/wraithgar/playlist/1EZ1hHOePPnRI7izyqZMEg
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Jun 24, 2016 22:50
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NoDamage posted:You're not the only one. I thought this entire season was a huge disappointment compared to previous seasons (especially S1-S3). The dialogue in the finale felt forced and awkward. The plot kept jumping all over the place. This show has been previously masterful at building suspenseful plots but ever since the Samaritan storyline took center stage, things have gone downhill. This is all true, but there is still stuff I liked about the finale of the season at the very least. Mostly the completely awesome music when Finch was talking to the Machine, though. I've been one to complain about the season and some of the previous seasons stuff before, but I didn't think this last episode sucked at all, though it was wrapped up way too fast. I do have a question though: Why didn't Samaritan just shut down if it knew the virus was about to be uploaded? Spend a few days offline and the virus issue should be taken care of. Sure, it leaves it in a vulnerable position, but not as vulnerable as being near "death."
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Jun 25, 2016 00:13
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evilmiera posted:This is all true, but there is still stuff I liked about the finale of the season at the very least. Mostly the completely awesome music when Finch was talking to the Machine, though. I've been one to complain about the season and some of the previous seasons stuff before, but I didn't think this last episode sucked at all, though it was wrapped up way too fast. It's not as if it resided on a single computer that could be scheduled to be shut down and booted up after two weeks. It exists on server farms that are permanently connected. Even if all those shut down, the physical connections couldn't be cut and there's no promising that Ice-9 couldn't still infect a computer upon booting. Did I miss the explanation why Samaritan's backup on an air-gapped machine still had fiber optic lines leading out?
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Jun 25, 2016 01:38
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Oasx posted:I am going to be the odd man out and say that i thought the season as a whole was great, there were a few storylines that had to get shortened, but it was nothing major. Yup, definitely!
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Jun 25, 2016 01:45
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Did John die?
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Jun 25, 2016 06:09
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Like I know he was pumped full of bullets by three guys with machine guns and then blown up by a missile, but what I'm wondering is, is he okay?
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Jun 25, 2016 06:10
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John goes on to star in The Life of Brian so he's gotta be fine.
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Jun 25, 2016 06:45
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V-Men posted:Did I miss the explanation why Samaritan's backup on an air-gapped machine still had fiber optic lines leading out? There probably some sort of dead man signal like a distinct analogue waveform or a dude who comes in every few days who hits a switch to reset a timer. Signal stops coming in to reset the timer or a physical/external attack happens it allows the server to trip a switch only it can close to use as a bolt hole. Until that internal switch is closed it remains air gapped.
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Jun 25, 2016 07:18
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V-Men posted:It's not as if it resided on a single computer that could be scheduled to be shut down and booted up after two weeks. It exists on server farms that are permanently connected. Even if all those shut down, the physical connections couldn't be cut and there's no promising that Ice-9 couldn't still infect a computer upon booting. The security now podcast a while ago had someone write in who worked for an IT company that did work at nuclear power plants. He described a pretty interesting system where the fiber optic connection only had a transmitter on one end, and only a receiver on the other. The transmitting end was physically incapable of detecting any signals.
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Jun 25, 2016 08:47
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I loved the root/Shaw romance arc.Oasx posted:I am going to be the odd man out and say that i thought the season as a whole was great, there were a few storylines that had to get shortened, but it was nothing major. I thought it was at least better than Season 4 and that was all I was asking. But I don't think it got remotely close to the heights of the other previous seasons. Sober posted:There was a post on reddit about this. Basically through the series the Machine has been forced to work in really cramped and suboptimal conditions since moving itself and was ready by the end because of it. Conversely, Samaritan is still loading while it's beamed up on the satellite while the Machine is already throwing its punches cause it was optimised to fit into a telephone box or a suitcase if called for. There probably weren't server farms up in that satellite so the Machine had the advantage. Flaw in this is that the Machine lost every amount of time to the amount of Samaritan that could fit in the laptop in the Faraday cage. Something else I thought of is that the briefcase switch sort of doesn't work since the one Finch was carrying was the one that had the piezoelectric battery.
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Jun 25, 2016 09:44
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The assuming in the battle between the Machine and Sammy in he cage is that it was a fair fight. It wasn't up in the satellite. Sam was still loading and the Machine was leaner and faster. The version of Sam being uploaded wasn't stripped down by Harold, it was full fat with all the biases it had picked up during the course of it's existence like the first Machine suit case which still contain those emotions she gave herself. Harold got shot and wasn't going to spot the swap from John as his CIA training would have made it trivial for John to hide that fact even without the gunshot wound. With the wound it took until John arrived to spot the wrong transmitters. Even if he did make the connection earlier it would have been too late and there is no way for Harold to take possession from John. oohhboy fucked around with this message at 11:03 on Jun 25, 2016 |
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Jun 25, 2016 10:59
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They didn't swap the actual cases, though. Finch still had the actual shell that had the piezoelectric battery.
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Jun 25, 2016 12:30
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Just had a look, Johns case is completely different from Harold's as he took the Machine out of the case. It is the same case as where the sleeping gas was in. John brings the empty case with him into the vault even though he would normally have no reason to. John gets his opportunity to swap it out when Harold takes the phone call. There is a shot where John looks a little conspiratorial(?), turns and focuses on the cases, not the guns. There is then another shoot where John is touching the Machine case and it no longer has the laptop on it as he steals that too. The light is still lit, but by the time Harold exits the vault it has become unlit. Harold's finger hides whatever residual charge element was powering the light like a capacitor. The arrangement was likely made before Harold gets handed the Machine and John's deal to protect Harold was made possibly any time the Machine was "Open" plus the Machine would have known what John wanted. Even without stealing it once Ice-9 was uploaded John could have just mugged Harold for the Machine. The details are crazy small though.
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Jun 25, 2016 13:27
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Tortolia posted:Is there an updated Spotify list with the season 5 songs? Been listening to Bunsen Burner off and on today but know the soundtrack as a whole owns. I'll take a look at my playlist from the OP this weekend, update it.
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Jun 25, 2016 14:18
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Fast Luck posted:Like I know he was pumped full of bullets by three guys with machine guns and then blown up by a missile, but what I'm wondering is, is he okay? Yeah he's cool, he was wearing a vest.
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Jun 25, 2016 16:55
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