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NienNunb posted:That's the most upsetting development in wrestling because early to mid 2000's NOAH is my favorite wrestling of all time. it was an absolute fantastic run and yet at the same time responsible for introducing most of the tedious tropey bullshit (endless strike exchanges, no-selling for the sake of it) that japanese wrestling still can't get past to this day
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Jun 30, 2016 09:30
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Spermgod posted:it's really one of the craziest examples of just how volatile star-driven wrestling promoting can be and why WWE is so smart to take the approach they do now I would agree if they would use the fact that their financing makes them basically immune to the need for a Megastar to build the company around to... not try to make a megastar around which the company was built at the expense of guys the fans like. If you don't need a Hogan stop ruining everyone else trying to make a Hogan.
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Jun 30, 2016 10:16
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Jenny Angel posted:A lot of times you'll see posts in gameday or weekly discussion threads like "Man, if you told me X years ago that Jon Moxley would be WWE World Champion..." or "Man, if you told me X years ago that Steen, Styles, Claudio, and Jericho would be main eventing RAW in a #1 Contenders Match for the World Championship...", and that got me thinking: PPVs are now $10 and for a lot of people it's really just a secondary perk for paying to watch WWE's developmental show.
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Jun 30, 2016 13:58
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Gavok posted:PPVs are now $10 and for a lot of people it's really just a secondary perk for paying to watch WWE's developmental show. On a slightly similar note, I'd say the most shocking difference from 06 would be wwe, the company that hates indies and booked the last cruiserweight champion to be hornswoggle, is now producing a tournament that is just independent cruiserweights
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Jun 30, 2016 14:52
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Metal Ray Sunshine posted:On a slightly similar note, I'd say the most shocking difference from 06 would be wwe, the company that hates indies and booked the last cruiserweight champion to be hornswoggle, is now producing a tournament that is just independent cruiserweights It's all to give the rub to WWE Superstar Taijiri.
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Jun 30, 2016 14:55
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I wish that were so. gently caress those other guys, I want Tajiri back.
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Jun 30, 2016 15:15
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Hopefully the CWC final is Tajiri vs Kendrick.
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Jun 30, 2016 15:19
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Honestly what would have surprised me the most was NXT becoming a Super-Indy and hosting a Cruiserweight tournament featuring primarily guys from other companies around the world. Talent Relations were terrible back then and WWE was stuck so far up their rear end that CM Punk was the exception to the rule, and anyone else that was brought in was watered down, given a new name, and set up for failure to prove a point that the WWE Universe is the greatest. If you would have told me in 2009 that WWE was featuring Kana, Kota Ibushi, Samoa Joe, and AJ Styles I probably would have lost my mind. It's a shame the deal with James Storm didn't work out because Beer Money would have been a fantastic final boss in NXT to keep up with Joe and Asuka.
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Jun 30, 2016 15:21
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Spermgod posted:it was an absolute fantastic run and yet at the same time responsible for introducing most of the tedious tropey bullshit (endless strike exchanges, no-selling for the sake of it) that japanese wrestling still can't get past to this day Agreed it was perfect.
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Jun 30, 2016 16:16
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Spermgod posted:it was an absolute fantastic run and yet at the same time responsible for introducing most of the tedious tropey bullshit (endless strike exchanges, no-selling for the sake of it) that japanese wrestling still can't get past to this day Actually those things are cool and good. NOAH was best of all time.
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Jun 30, 2016 18:25
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What's All Japan doing these days? I only hear about New Japan, NOAH and DDT
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Jun 30, 2016 18:44
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In the process of maybe turning things around after hitting pretty much rock bottom after yet another round of departures late last year. Kento Miyahara is the ace now and with significant help from BJW they've had a string of well-attended Korakuen shows.
Spermgod fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Jun 30, 2016 |
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Jun 30, 2016 18:58
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Smoking Crow posted:What's All Japan doing these days? I only hear about New Japan, NOAH and DDT watch more dragon gate
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Jun 30, 2016 19:14
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bjw's non death match stuff has been my favorite thing about japanese wrestling for 18 months now
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Jun 30, 2016 22:19
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The NOAH points reminded me of another question I've had for a while now - what exactly happened to break NOAH's back after their great work in the earlier part of the century?
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Jun 30, 2016 23:20
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Everyone left or became a farm
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Jun 30, 2016 23:26
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NOAH had 3 stars, and they were all made in the late 80's early 90's.
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Jun 30, 2016 23:28
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Jenny Angel posted:The NOAH points reminded me of another question I've had for a while now - what exactly happened to break NOAH's back after their great work in the earlier part of the century? Their first attempt to build a new star in Rikio failed terribly. They aborted their second attempt in Marufuji when spot shows started trailing off and they felt they needed Misawa back on top. (The spot shows often being paid for by big AJPW fans from the 90s who saw Misawa as a god.) They then waited too long to pull the trigger on Morishima. In the mean time Kobashi had fallen apart and gotten cancer, Misawa was a wreck (and later died) and Akiyama was never the draw they needed. From here they never went back to Marufuji until it was too late nor did they pull the trigger on KENTA until it was also too late.
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Jul 1, 2016 00:18
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oatgan posted:bjw's non death match stuff has been my favorite thing about japanese wrestling for 18 months now The BJW World Strong title has be really great since they introduced it and their tag division was awesome a few years ago. Their deathmatch stuff is getting kinda samey with another Ito reign.
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Jul 1, 2016 01:42
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Ceasaro always does that machine gun punch as a taunt, has he ever actually used that as a move?
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Jul 1, 2016 02:27
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I don't think so. No. One of the things I have hated in recent wrestling was again displayed at a recent WWE PPV when Seth Rollins hit a cool looking Pedigree as a reversal to the Roman Reigns spear. Wrestlers doing what are ostensibly super move versions of their finishers and not getting the three count and finally getting it with the conventional version. Cena has done this with the Avalanche AA. Karl Anderson used to hit a regular gunstun to finish and uses a TKO style one as a regular move. It doesn't even really have to be a super finish, sometimes people will just hit a move that looks amazing, and it never ever gets to be the match finish. It's like there is an allergy to creative finishes now days.
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Jul 1, 2016 03:07
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remusclaw posted:I don't think so. No. The current style is such that if you're in the main event or in a match with John Cena, one finisher won't do the job. It's pretty dumb but it's their own fault. Wins and losses don't matter anymore so the only way to get a crowd invested in something that's not a finish is to get them to think that the finish is happening when it's not.
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Jul 1, 2016 03:41
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Seth really needs to win a match with his superplex into the falcon arrow
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Jul 1, 2016 03:50
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I'm still waiting for Seth to actually hit his Phoenix Splash
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Jul 1, 2016 03:59
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owens has been not finishing matches with his super fisherman buster for years
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Jul 1, 2016 04:10
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remusclaw posted:I don't think so. No. tbf I think Cena's only not pinned someone off an Avalanche AA once. And I think it's less that super versions of their finishers don't get the pin, but that moves which look way cooler and more painful than their finishers aren't getting the pin. And just kind of become regular spots they pull out occasionally.
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Jul 1, 2016 04:23
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SyntheticPolygon posted:tbf I think Cena's only not pinned someone off an Avalanche AA once. Sheamus has like 5 "signature moves" at this point that used to be finishers
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Jul 1, 2016 04:24
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MassRafTer posted:Akiyama was never the draw they needed. I might be wrong but I think his first GHC run drew fine. After losing to Ogawa in 7 minutes and then perpetually being presented as not quite good enough to compete with the top guys for years though...yeah. If he'd beaten Kobashi at the Dome in 2004, maybe things would've been different. But instead Rikio got to end Kobashi's reign while he still felt like a midcarder. And I believe Akiyama booked all of that stuff himself so it's not like any of this absolves him of blame. Also KENTA was clearly the guy at least early as the second SUWA match in 2005. I understand why it took so long to strap the rocket to him given the stigma juniors have (except oh wait Ogawa was champion) but that's another chance to save the company they squandered. Spermgod fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Jul 1, 2016 |
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Jul 1, 2016 05:15
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Clockwork Rocktapus posted:Ceasaro always does that machine gun punch as a taunt, has he ever actually used that as a move? They're anti-aircraft guns, so I really wish he'd use it as a counter to flying nothings.
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Jul 1, 2016 09:06
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Ten years ago Tanahashi was some dude that Brock bailed on fighting. He was weeks away from winning his first IWGP Championship. I think if you told people he'd basically become the Japanese Cena, except with a Flair-Steamboat level feud against the guy pegged to replace him on top, they would never believe you.
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Jul 1, 2016 09:26
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I'm assuming Roman is winning at Battleground, as a face, and the crowd is going to poo poo all over it with extreme vigor and violence. Has there ever been a top face run attempt forced so hard with so much backfire and nothing changing, either vis a vis alignment or card position?
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Jul 1, 2016 09:47
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I'm half expecting him to pull a Lashley any day now and just never be mentioned again.
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Jul 1, 2016 09:54
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SamuraiFoochs posted:I'm assuming Roman is winning at Battleground, as a face, and the crowd is going to poo poo all over it with extreme vigor and violence. Has there ever been a top face run attempt forced so hard with so much backfire and nothing changing, either vis a vis alignment or card position? I don't think so because at no other point in history could it happen without the business side of things necessitating a change of direction. Of course you could argue that since that isn't happening in this case it's not really backfiring.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:10
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SamuraiFoochs posted:I'm assuming Roman is winning at Battleground, as a face, and the crowd is going to poo poo all over it with extreme vigor and violence. Has there ever been a top face run attempt forced so hard with so much backfire and nothing changing, either vis a vis alignment or card position? I honestly don't know if they're stupid enough to put the belt back on him as soon as he comes back from a Wellness violation. Plenty of people will correctly point out that he shouldn't be rewarded upon his return, especially when he never actually missed a PPV payday.
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Jul 1, 2016 13:35
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I can't really imagine that Roman will win clean immediately. I think he "messes up" and allows Dean to win again (or Seth if they really want to play the redemption storyline) and has even more reason to doubt himself/OVERCOME THE ODDS edit: my attempt at realistic fantasy booking would be that Roman has Dean down with the spear and could clearly win but decides to turn around and spear Seth as well and then ends up losing. THE HOT HEAD LET HIS EMOTIONS GET THE BEST OF HIM MAGGLE!!!
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Jul 1, 2016 14:42
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if you want to know what happens at wwe battleground then you better stop reading now. i mean you should read it, not stoip. Roman Reins will spear Seth Rollins but Seth will hit him with some kind of Gun's Bullet during it
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Jul 1, 2016 14:49
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SamuraiFoochs posted:I'm assuming Roman is winning at Battleground, as a face, and the crowd is going to poo poo all over it with extreme vigor and violence. Has there ever been a top face run attempt forced so hard with so much backfire and nothing changing, either vis a vis alignment or card position? If you believe Dave Meltzer, NWA/WCW tried for almost decade to make Sting a star, he finally drew one buyrate that wasn't actually that impressive by being built for a year as the hero to stop the biggest faction in the history of wrestling, and then continued to fail to draw for almost 2 more decades after that as a top babyface.
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Jul 1, 2016 15:04
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Roman will spear Seth then walk out, allowing Dean to get the pin. At SummerSlam he'll lose clean to Nakamura then run in during the main event to help Dean retain again. Same thing at Clash of Champions except this time he jobs to Big E. This goes on until he breaks his own record at Royal Rumble 2017 and finally wins the WWE title again at Wrestlemania from Sheamus in 18 seconds.
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Jul 1, 2016 15:08
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Daunte Vicknabb posted:Ten years ago Tanahashi was some dude that Brock bailed on fighting. He was weeks away from winning his first IWGP Championship. I think if you told people he'd basically become the Japanese Cena, except with a Flair-Steamboat level feud against the guy pegged to replace him on top, they would never believe you.
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Jul 1, 2016 17:41
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if you told me that Okada/Tana was a Flair/Steamboat level feud today i wouldn't believe you
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Jul 1, 2016 17:46
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