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CzarChasm posted:Was he ever "Flash"? I thought he was just Impulse/Kid Flash For one mini series wherein he died and came back a year or so later as Kid Flash.
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Jul 1, 2016 23:55
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Isn't Guy Gardner's whole bit that he's just A Dude? Like, he's not super great and not super lovely intentionally, because it's a story about what would happen if some ordinary Joe got phenomenal cosmic power for no specific reason, just pure luck?
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Jul 2, 2016 00:00
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Was Hal the first GL?X-O posted:Barry Allen is not the worst Flash, he's just not the best one either. Hal is unequivocally the worst Earth Lantern, except for maybe the new ones that I don't know anything about. Who is the worst Flash? Barry seems to get hated on.
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Jul 2, 2016 00:02
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That's more of Kyle's story. Guy's was that he was second choice after Hal. Edit: Bart is the worst Flash. Barry was worst until Bart took the mantle.
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Jul 2, 2016 00:03
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Ultragonk posted:Was Hal the first GL? The first in our current understanding of them, yeah. Alan Scott had a lantern he found but the Corps wasn't a thing and he wasn't involved in any of that mythology.
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Jul 2, 2016 00:04
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Barry gets hated on not because he's the worst Flash, but for a myriad of different reasons mostly dealing with how he's the cause of Flashpoint and therefore the New 52, so a bunch of people half-jokingly to utterly seriously point fingers at him as the cause of a line-wide hard reboot that's widely considered one of the worst creative periods in DC history. This is compounded by the fact that he got written out like a complete and utter champ saving the multiverse in Crisis on Infinite Earths, one of if not the most influential single story that DC has ever done (and one of the most influential and important comics ever made). Then he was revived because Geoff Johns really liked the character, displacing Wally West (who had been Flash for decades at this point) and then Flashpoint happened which ended up removing Wally from continuity permanently until Rebirth. Also Barry comes off as a really dumb idiot in Flashpoint considering how much loving with time has deleterious effects on the timestream and is, indeed, something Flash villains often do, so Barry doing it because he's just so darn sad his Mom is dead when he's been in and around the Speedforce for as long as he has makes him look like a chump. So it's basically a combination of three things: He got a great death (arguably the greatest in DC comics history) then was revived due to creative desire over necessity, replaced a better character because a creative nobody likes any more had nostalgia for him and in the process ended up marginalizing and then removing from history that better character, and because he was the cause of an event that eventually caused some of the worst comics DC has ever written to be made. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Jul 2, 2016 |
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Jul 2, 2016 00:09
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Guy Gardner is somehow still the bully-but-not-quite from an 80s high school movie. Some people think that's good, because they're from the 80s. But the rest of us know that everyone from the 80s is wrong.
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Jul 2, 2016 00:11
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What's the origin of Sandman's (the Marvel character) getting a supervillain costume to replace his usual jeans and shirt look? I think he started wearing it when he was functioning as more of a Hulk and Fantastic Four villain than a Spider-Man enemy, so it's meant to emphasise him as a supervillain, but does the outfit have an in-universe origin? Did the Wizard make it for him?
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Jul 2, 2016 00:15
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Guy was cool when he was a Red Lantern (the second time) and was basically a space biker gang. Also he had a different haircut. Ginger Moe The Mean Green Lantern is a dumb idea in any era.
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Jul 2, 2016 00:16
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Rhyno posted:I will cut you. Truth time? Guy's actually my favorite GL. But he does have that "Weird Science" Robert Downy Jr, smug prick mentality. You don't get to hold onto that when Batman drops you in one hit after you goad him into it.
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Jul 2, 2016 00:26
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Ultragonk posted:Is there a Green Lantern everyone hates or at least thinks is clearly the worst one? Like Barry Allen (I think) for the Flash. Hal Jordan. Like Simon Baz has been in maybe 10 comics overall and he's still more compelling than any version of Hal. The only time Hal was any good was when Sinestro was making fun of him for being a hobo. Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Jul 2, 2016 |
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Jul 2, 2016 00:42
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The best Hal Jordan I've ever read was in New Frontier, which has overall some of the best characterization of the classic Justice Leaguers ever written. It still didn't succeed in making Hal Jordan a cool or likable character but it came the closest.
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Jul 2, 2016 00:48
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Ultragonk posted:Was Hal the first GL? Barry gets hated on specifically because he's not Wally. There's nothing wrong with Barry. I don't know that there is a "worst" Flash in the same sense as Hal is obvious the "worst" Green Lantern. Worst Flash would just be a position by default and Worst Green Lantern is a position very much earned.
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Jul 2, 2016 00:50
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I wonder what Geoff Johns sees in Hal.
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Jul 2, 2016 00:57
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Wheat Loaf posted:I wonder what Geoff Johns sees in Hal. He was the Green Lantern when he was a kid. Same reason Joe Quesada has such a loving problem with Spider-man being married.
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Jul 2, 2016 01:09
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Aphrodite posted:Guy Gardner is somehow still the bully-but-not-quite from an 80s high school movie. Beau Smith moved him beyond that a ong time ago but Johns regressed him back to it. Tomasi made him more of a jerk jock than a bully.
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Jul 2, 2016 01:19
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Tangent to current topic: I've heard many times in different places about the importance of crisis on infinite earths to DC and I just get more and more curious about it. As someone with extremely limited experience with the actual universe would it be something I could read and still be able to follow since i know of the justice league and its members, but don't have any knowledge of their history, other than basic outlines? Secondly, if I can read it, is it a self contained series or is it spread out through various books that I would need to look for?
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Jul 2, 2016 01:22
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I think Guy Gardner was best summed up by Chris Sims:Chris Sims posted:As annoying as Guy can be–and brother, he can be annoying–he’s a brilliant character. Why? Because a guy that was totally honest and totally fearless really WOULD be a complete jerk.
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Jul 2, 2016 01:28
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X-O posted:Barry gets hated on specifically because he's not Wally. There's nothing wrong with Barry. I don't know that there is a "worst" Flash in the same sense as Hal is obvious the "worst" Green Lantern. Worst Flash would just be a position by default and Worst Green Lantern is a position very much earned.
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Jul 2, 2016 01:28
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site posted:Tangent to current topic: I've heard many times in different places about the importance of crisis on infinite earths to DC and I just get more and more curious about it. As someone with extremely limited experience with the actual universe would it be something I could read and still be able to follow since i know of the justice league and its members, but don't have any knowledge of their history, other than basic outlines? Secondly, if I can read it, is it a self contained series or is it spread out through various books that I would need to look for?
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Jul 2, 2016 01:34
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redbackground posted:I'm in the middle of a massive CoIE binding project and I will write you a more detailed post later! <3
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Jul 2, 2016 01:35
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Ya boy Tom King wrote a fantastic Hal book in the GL Darkseid War tie-in, with Doc Shaner no less. Go read that and weep that they ain't doing Hal's Rebirth comic. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Jul 2, 2016 |
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Jul 2, 2016 01:40
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site posted:Tangent to current topic: I've heard many times in different places about the importance of crisis on infinite earths to DC and I just get more and more curious about it. As someone with extremely limited experience with the actual universe would it be something I could read and still be able to follow since i know of the justice league and its members, but don't have any knowledge of their history, other than basic outlines? Secondly, if I can read it, is it a self contained series or is it spread out through various books that I would need to look for? It's a self-contained series, 12 issues long. However, the actual story within those issues is kinda bad, and extremely confusing if you aren't familiar with everything about DC's continuity at the time. Which itself is hard to really understand, seeing as how the whole point of Crisis in the first place was "poo poo our poo poo is so confusing we need to streamline poo poo". It's sort of an important thing to understand the relevance of and what it did for the cosmology, but you'd get just as much insight into that by having someone explain it to you (or listening to the first episode of Journey Into Misery) as you would actually reading it, if not more so.
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Jul 2, 2016 01:47
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I don't think you need to know anything about the characters. The thing is just seeing the spectacle of an entire generation of heroes and villains fighting something. I think it's a great thing to experience as a historical artifact or 80's DC primer. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Jul 2, 2016 |
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Jul 2, 2016 01:51
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Teenage Fansub posted:I don't think you need to know anything about the characters. The thing is just seeing the spectacle of an entire generation of heroes and villains fighting something. That's true, if you go into it expecting crazy double page spreads of hundreds of people fighting a giant head and then the universe is saved, that's what you'll get.
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Jul 2, 2016 01:58
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Also, thing's worth it if you're gonna read Animal Man.
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Jul 2, 2016 02:06
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The best way to describe Crisis is as a direct response to Secret Wars. Secret Wars was a way to sell toys combined with Shooter's dislike of certain parts of certain books' creative direction (most famously Colossus dating Kitty Pryde since that was creepy as all hell), so it - which invented the line-wide crossover event, basically - ended up changing around certain books' status quos but also was a bare excuse to have all the heroes punching each other in new outfits. So it's a relatively simple story that can be most adequately described as "a reason to smash a bunch of action figures together and have everyone go all out without worrying about collateral damage". Certain books' statuses changed - like, Ben Grimm was stuck on Battleworld for a while, for instance, so wasn't on the Fantastic Four - but it wasn't some earth-shaking event that CHANGED EVERYTHING. DC saw all that and decided to top it, on top of their view that Marvel was successful in a way that DC wasn't because they had one continuity that everything happened within. It's debatable whether or not that's true, but DC used CoIE primarily as a way to reset their continuity and have it make more sense with less multiversal stuff, multiple Flashes/Supermen/etc running around, etc etc. So they told this convoluted and insane and really sort of completely nonsensical story with the Monitor and Anti-Monitor and all Earths being in danger and so on and so on because everything was at stake. But really, it was smashing a bunch of action figures together as continuity got reset, rewritten, or retconned. And that's sort of the way Marvel and DC have approached events from then on. Look at the number of Marvel line-wide crossover events that have the word "Secret" or "War" in their title, and then look at the number of DC-wide crossover events that have the word "Crisis" in theirs. The biggest irony is that Secret Wars 2015, as a direct callback to the first-ever line-wide crossover event, the one that invented them all, is basically Crisis on Earths 1610 and 616. And yet so far, the fallout has been the same as it was back in 1985 - the books resumed with some changed statuses but that's more or less it. If you're interested Chris Sims wrote an excellent article on Crisis and its more deleterious effects on the DCU, which is often linked, here. There's also a followup where Chris runs down all the Issues he has with Crisis here. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Jul 2, 2016 |
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Jul 2, 2016 02:42
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DC also had several other comic's companies worth of characters, each operating on their own universe, which they wanted to fold into their main books. Shazam and Blue Beetle and people like that.
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Jul 2, 2016 02:50
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If they have to compete, I find COIE so much more interesting than the original Secret Wars. I still remember the issue that had a separate story playing out across the bottom 5th of the pages or something.
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Jul 2, 2016 02:52
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Teenage Fansub posted:If they have to compete, I find COIE so much more interesting than the original Secret Wars. Well, obviously. Secret Wars was a way to sell toys. Crisis was DC literally playing 52 card pickup with their entire lineup of comics.
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Jul 2, 2016 02:59
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X-O posted:Barry gets hated on specifically because he's not Wally. There's nothing wrong with Barry. I don't know that there is a "worst" Flash in the same sense as Hal is obvious the "worst" Green Lantern. Worst Flash would just be a position by default and Worst Green Lantern is a position very much earned. Ah thanks, I don't know enough about the Flash I got to read more of him but what I have read/seen I don't mind Barry Allen so at least he's not total garbage.
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Jul 2, 2016 08:34
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Crisis basically pioneered the "some cool moments strung together with stupid, ponderous bollocks" style of event comics writing.
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Jul 2, 2016 14:04
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I liked Bart and I remember thinking the Flash transition sucked. He's magically aged and suddenly very emotional, it felt like a whole new, annoying character. I've read a little of early Wally Flash too, and he was definitely annoying too, does anyone know how long it took for Wally to grow into it?
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Jul 2, 2016 14:16
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Chinaman7000 posted:I liked Bart and I remember thinking the Flash transition sucked. He's magically aged and suddenly very emotional, it felt like a whole new, annoying character. I've read a little of early Wally Flash too, and he was definitely annoying too, does anyone know how long it took for Wally to grow into it? About five years. He became the Flash in 1986, and Mark Waid starting writing him around 1991.
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Jul 2, 2016 18:41
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So when exactly did Hal Jordan become a pariah? Admittedly I'm not super into DC, are of a marvel guy, and a bunch independents back in the 90's and 00's. Then quit comics. Hal was always my GL, especially all that Neal Adams stuff. What, aside from hindsight looking back on to goofy silver-age crap (which, c'mon, unless you grew up with it you only saw it in back issues and drat near every character has some laughable history), was his downfall? That emerald day thing or whatever? Something else? I mean, I'm aware of Guy and Gnort and Stewart et al so I'm aware of Lanterns but just don't see where the Hal Hate is stemming from. Genuinely curious.
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Jul 2, 2016 20:11
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I think a lot of resentment comes from the generation who's GL was Kyle in the 90s/early 2000s. e: I bet most people who started with Geoff's comics don't have much of a problem with him. I don't mind having a bland/blank slate hero if the world around them is compelling. Star Wars is the prime example. I only got bored with Johns' run when the big threats started getting really repetitive at the end. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Jul 2, 2016 |
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Jul 2, 2016 20:18
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He's a plank of wood, which is ironic considering the original weakness of his ring. He's just so boring and dumb. People who read comics miss kyle, fans of the cartoons miss John. Nobody was clamoring for Hal Jordan except for Geoff Johns, unfortunately he writes the comics, so he gets what he wants.
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Jul 2, 2016 20:27
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Ferrule posted:Hal was always my GL The problem is that a guy who felt this way started writing comics at DC. So he got to toss aside everything he needed to in order to restore Hal as THE Green Lantern. Much like the issue with Barry (brought back by the same dude if you're keeping score), Hal is the least interesting Earth Green Lantern. I mean what are the great Hal Jordan stories? Not him in a great JL story either, one with him at the center. What I think particularly irks people is the 90's and 00's gave Green Lantern a shot in the arm. Like Travis said, Kyle was the Green Lantern for a decade and over time he managed to transition from HEY HOW AWESOME IS KYLE to being a legitimately good character. And the cartoon (which I'd wager reached more kids than the comic did) was focused around John. Hal and Kyle could hardly get cameos. I think the wrestling fan in me has gotten comfortable using Roman Reigns as an example too often, but it's true with Hal and Barry too. They're guys who are just ok at best, but Geoff Johns and other writers swear that they're the absolute greatest and gently caress you if you disagree with that.
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Jul 2, 2016 20:47
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Travis343 posted:fans of the cartoons miss John. I don't think anyone really misses the most boring man in this and several universes.
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Jul 2, 2016 20:48
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I think Hal is easily the best Green Lantern, but I know better than to debate that around here. Hal was never my GL until Rebirth. The first GL comic I ever remember seeing was crazy eyes Hal with all the rings, and then the next month or whatever was Kyle looking all shiny and new. I think what puts Hal over the top is his relationships. Hal and Sinestro is up there with Peter Parker and Norman Osborn, Hal and Carol are a pretty unique pair with her authority over him, and Hal and Ollie are like a slightly less contentious Batman and Superman.
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Jul 2, 2016 21:23
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