politically-loaded maps: sputtering flemishly

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > politically-loaded maps: sputtering flemishly

fishmech: Jul 16, 2006; by VideoGames; Salad Prong

It's really interesting how sometimes the Church sticks multiple US states together, sometimes has one area per state, and then sometimes completely breaks from state borders.

# ? Jul 7, 2016 21:47

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# ? Apr 18, 2024 15:15

System Metternich: Feb 28, 2010; But what did he mean by that?

fishmech posted:

It's really interesting how sometimes the Church sticks multiple US states together, sometimes has one area per state, and then sometimes completely breaks from state borders.

Here's a map with the individual dioceses visible, do they generally stick to county borders too?

e: I just noticed that Orange county had its own diocese and looked it up, it has over a million Catholics :psyduck:

I know Orange as consistently voting Republican, but apparently it's really densely populated, how come?

e2: in that urban areas normally tend Democrat. Is it literally just suburbs or what?

System Metternich fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Jul 7, 2016

# ? Jul 7, 2016 22:26

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

System Metternich posted:

Here's a map with the individual dioceses visible, do they generally stick to county borders too?

e: I just noticed that Orange county had its own diocese and looked it up, it has over a million Catholics I know Orange as consistently voting Republican, but apparently it's really densely populated, how come?

e2: in that urban areas normally tend Democrat. Is it literally just suburbs or what?

What is with:

The orange area south of Maine

And the Texas split between the Triangle and the Uninhabited Hellscape?

# ? Jul 7, 2016 22:54

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

GreyjoyBastard posted:

What is with:

The orange area south of Maine

Otherwise known as Connecticut? Yeah, that state is a bit of a mystery to everyone.

# ? Jul 7, 2016 22:58

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

GreyjoyBastard posted:

What is with:

The orange area south of Maine

And the Texas split between the Triangle and the Uninhabited Hellscape?

its just a map of catholic density in the us more or less. texas and the southwest has tons of mexican-americans, mexicans, and other latin americans, and they tend to be heavily catholic

# ? Jul 7, 2016 23:00

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

OddObserver posted:

Otherwise known as Connecticut? Yeah, that state is a bit of a mystery to everyone.

# ? Jul 7, 2016 23:02

System Metternich: Feb 28, 2010; But what did he mean by that?

GreyjoyBastard posted:

What is with:

The orange area south of Maine

And the Texas split between the Triangle and the Uninhabited Hellscape?

Virtually all Catholic dioceses are part of larger "church provinces", headed by an archbishop (sometimes also called "metropolitan bishop"; the other bishops in a province are called "suffragan bishops"). In most cases this is merely ceremonial, though. The orange area is the church province covering Connecticut, led by the Archbishop of Hartford. The Texas split is simply because a single metropolitan shouldn't have too many suffragan bishops at once; it may also be a relict of westward colonisation? I dunno

# ? Jul 7, 2016 23:04

Kurtofan: Feb 16, 2011; hon hon hon

i see the maps for the papist takeover of america have already been drawn.

# ? Jul 7, 2016 23:06

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Soiled Meat

Kurtofan posted:

i see the maps for the papist takeover of america have already been drawn.

Now to stage 2: Issuing the crocodile mitres.

# ? Jul 7, 2016 23:09

HorseRenoir: Dec 25, 2011; Pillbug

System Metternich posted:

e: I just noticed that Orange county had its own diocese and looked it up, it has over a million Catholics I know Orange as consistently voting Republican, but apparently it's really densely populated, how come?

e2: in that urban areas normally tend Democrat. Is it literally just suburbs or what?

Yeah, Orange County is pretty much just wealthy LA suburbs. Suburban counties in general tend to vote heavily Republican in the US once you leave the Northeast.

# ? Jul 7, 2016 23:10

Jerry Manderbilt: May 31, 2012; No matter how much paperwork I process, it never goes away. It only increases.

HorseRenoir posted:

Yeah, Orange County is pretty much just wealthy LA suburbs. Suburban counties in general tend to vote heavily Republican in the US once you leave the Northeast.

orange county also has tons of more downscale mexicans and vietnamese (who probably form a huge chunk of the county's catholic population)

# ? Jul 7, 2016 23:14

fishmech: Jul 16, 2006; by VideoGames; Salad Prong

System Metternich posted:

Here's a map with the individual dioceses visible, do they generally stick to county borders too?

e: I just noticed that Orange county had its own diocese and looked it up, it has over a million Catholics I know Orange as consistently voting Republican, but apparently it's really densely populated, how come?

e2: in that urban areas normally tend Democrat. Is it literally just suburbs or what?

Some of those stick well to county lines, others ignore them entirely. No consistency - and of the ones I compared against they don't seem to conform to historical county or even colony boundaries all that well.

I also find it quite funny that the state of Delaware just gets completely lumped in with eastern Maryland for diocese purposes. Seems to be the only state that doesn't have a diocese of its own, although the diocese covering it is in fact headquartered in the state.

# ? Jul 7, 2016 23:15

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

steinrokkan posted:

China has been subject to active missionary efforts, and those administrative districts are based on missionary organisation whenever there are no historical dioceses.

I think they mostly map to the actual provinces in the region too.

# ? Jul 8, 2016 01:59

Mike the TV: Jan 14, 2008; Ninety-nine ninety-nine ninety-nine; Pillbug

# ? Jul 8, 2016 04:20

Proust Malone: Apr 4, 2008

Mike the TV posted:

Related:

What's up with the four corners being a 3/4 circle?

# ? Jul 8, 2016 04:47

Mike the TV: Jan 14, 2008; Ninety-nine ninety-nine ninety-nine; Pillbug

Ron Jeremy posted:

What's up with the four corners being a 3/4 circle?

I'm not sure the exact reasoning, but it's the Navajoland Area Mission.

# ? Jul 8, 2016 04:51

Ofaloaf: Feb 15, 2013

Is it Mormons?

# ? Jul 8, 2016 04:56

Badger of Basra: Jul 26, 2007

Ofaloaf posted:

Is it Mormons?

Episcopalians.

e: for any non-Americans, that's what Anglicans call themselves here

Badger of Basra fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Jul 8, 2016

# ? Jul 8, 2016 04:59

Proust Malone: Apr 4, 2008

Badger of Basra posted:

Episcopalians.

e: for any non-Americans, that's what Anglicans call themselves here

Isn't there a split now over ordaining gay people?

# ? Jul 8, 2016 05:25

Patter Song: Mar 26, 2010; Hereby it is manifest that during the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as is of every man against every man.; Fun Shoe

Shbobdb posted:

Hong Xiuquan who lead the Taiping Rebellion and claimed to be the younger brother of Jesus. He was a pretty interesting figure, especially since his understanding of Christianity came from proselytizing tracts.

This is one of those "probably bullshit" "according to tradition" stories, but it's one that's at least contemporary with Hong:

The story goes that horrified Westerners would send him lists of Bible verses emphasizing Jesus was God's "Only begotten son," and Hong would send the verses back with the word "only" crossed out.

# ? Jul 8, 2016 06:18

Spoeank: Jul 16, 2003; That's a nice set of 11 dynasty points there, it would be a shame if 3 rings were to happen with it

Play posted:

Who's that in your avatar?

Hunter Pence, crazy eyed king of San Francisco & AT&T Park

# ? Jul 8, 2016 06:33

System Metternich: Feb 28, 2010; But what did he mean by that?

Ron Jeremy posted:

Isn't there a split now over ordaining gay people?

That, and women's ordination, mostly. It's only a comparatively small bunch of dioceses and parishes in the States that have either joined more conservative provinces or left the Church altogether, the real problem is in the Global South which is way more conservative than the vast majority of of Anglicans/Episcopalians in Europe and North America.

# ? Jul 8, 2016 07:06

Vorpal Cat: Mar 19, 2009; Oh god what did I just post?

System Metternich posted:

Here's a map with the individual dioceses visible, do they generally stick to county borders too?

e: I just noticed that Orange county had its own diocese and looked it up, it has over a million Catholics I know Orange as consistently voting Republican, but apparently it's really densely populated, how come?

e2: in that urban areas normally tend Democrat. Is it literally just suburbs or what?

This is basically Catholic population density.jpg. Look at the size of the dioceses in the North, which got wave after wave of Catholic imagrants from Italy, Ireland, and Quebec, to the South which basically had no voluntary imagration after the origenal english settlers until post WW2.

# ? Jul 8, 2016 08:12

Patter Song: Mar 26, 2010; Hereby it is manifest that during the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as is of every man against every man.; Fun Shoe

Vorpal Cat posted:

to the South which basically had no voluntary imagration after the origenal english settlers until post WW2.

That's basically only true for the old south, Georgia and the Carolinas. Mississippi, Alabama, etc. weren't even heavily settled until ~~after the Creek, the Shawnee, and others were expelled~~ the 1820s. Louisiana had a long French tradition (including many Catholics) and New Orleans, as one of the U.S.' top ports, was one of the most cosmopolitan cities in America in this period, with people from all over the world. Texas, of course, had an extensive land rush from people from all over the US and Europe moving into it in the 1840s and 1850s, including large German and Czech populations. Galveston, TX was one of the top ports of entry for immigrants to the United States throughout the 19th and early 20th century, including one of my sets of great grandparents back in the 1910s.

TL;DR plenty of people moved into the South.

EDIT:

1850 census: Texas' population ~212k.
1860 census: Texas' population ~604k.
1870 census: Texas' population ~818k.
1880 census: Texas' population ~1.59 million.

It was a major immigration magnet.

Patter Song fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Jul 8, 2016

# ? Jul 8, 2016 21:02

fishmech: Jul 16, 2006; by VideoGames; Salad Prong

Vorpal Cat posted:

This is basically Catholic population density.jpg. Look at the size of the dioceses in the North, which got wave after wave of Catholic imagrants from Italy, Ireland, and Quebec, to the South which basically had no voluntary imagration after the origenal english settlers until post WW2.

It really doesn't map with population density of Catholics well at all. If it did, there would be way more variance.

# ? Jul 8, 2016 21:23

Proust Malone: Apr 4, 2008

Patter Song posted:

That's basically only true for the old south, Georgia and the Carolinas. Mississippi, Alabama, etc. weren't even heavily settled until ~~after the Creek, the Shawnee, and others were expelled~~ the 1820s. Louisiana had a long French tradition (including many Catholics) and New Orleans, as one of the U.S.' top ports, was one of the most cosmopolitan cities in America in this period, with people from all over the world. Texas, of course, had an extensive land rush from people from all over the US and Europe moving into it in the 1840s and 1850s, including large German and Czech populations. Galveston, TX was one of the top ports of entry for immigrants to the United States throughout the 19th and early 20th century, including one of my sets of great grandparents back in the 1910s.

TL;DR plenty of people moved into the South.

EDIT:

1850 census: Texas' population ~212k.
1860 census: Texas' population ~604k.
1870 census: Texas' population ~818k.
1880 census: Texas' population ~1.59 million.

It was a major immigration magnet.

I've been told many times by Texans that Texas isn't the south. Texas is Texas.

# ? Jul 8, 2016 22:08

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

System Metternich posted:

That, and women's ordination, mostly. It's only a comparatively small bunch of dioceses and parishes in the States that have either joined more conservative provinces or left the Church altogether, the real problem is in the Global South which is way more conservative than the vast majority of of Anglicans/Episcopalians in Europe and North America.

I love the Archbishop of Canterbury's eventual proposed and accepted solution. "Okay, how about you guys temporarily join the archdioceses of Uganda and Nigeria while we sort the administrative details out, and also we will refer the question of sodomite marriage to committee for the next four centuries while everyone does what they feel like doing." Anglicanism akbar.

The upshot is that my father was under the authority of the Archbishop of Nigeria for a while. :v:

# ? Jul 8, 2016 22:27

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Soiled Meat

Ron Jeremy posted:

I've been told many times by Texans that Texas isn't the south. Texas is Texas.

Texas is Mexico.

They even share two letters.

# ? Jul 8, 2016 23:05

doverhog: May 31, 2013; Defender of democracy and human rights 🇺🇦

Texas is cowboy yeehah big hat big gun big gut, right?

# ? Jul 8, 2016 23:30

Patter Song: Mar 26, 2010; Hereby it is manifest that during the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as is of every man against every man.; Fun Shoe

Ron Jeremy posted:

I've been told many times by Texans that Texas isn't the south. Texas is Texas.

Fair enough, but New Orleans sure as hell is "the South" and it was a pretty vibrant place throughout the 19th century. For whatever reason, people seem to forget that one of America's most important ports, a critical city to the entire economy of everything west of the Atlantic seaboard, is in the Deep South.

# ? Jul 9, 2016 02:34

OptimusShr: Mar 1, 2008

OddObserver posted:

Otherwise known as Connecticut? Yeah, that state is a bit of a mystery to everyone.

And Rhode Island which everyone forgets because it's so tiny.

# ? Jul 9, 2016 02:35

Byzantine: Sep 1, 2007

Patter Song posted:

Fair enough, but New Orleans sure as hell is "the South" and it was a pretty vibrant place throughout the 19th century. For whatever reason, people seem to forget that one of America's most important ports, a critical city to the entire economy of everything west of the Atlantic seaboard, is in the Deep South.

It's all the Frenchness.

# ? Jul 9, 2016 03:10

Peanut President: Nov 5, 2008; by Athanatos
(and can't post for 16 days!)

doverhog posted:

Texas is cowboy yeehah big hat big gun big gut, right?

Yeah that's the one.

# ? Jul 9, 2016 04:07

ulmont: Sep 15, 2010; IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE

Ron Jeremy posted:

I've been told many times by Texans that Texas isn't the south. Texas is Texas.

As a Southerner, I agree with your Texans.

# ? Jul 9, 2016 04:13

fishmech: Jul 16, 2006; by VideoGames; Salad Prong

Patter Song posted:

Fair enough, but New Orleans sure as hell is "the South" and it was a pretty vibrant place throughout the 19th century. For whatever reason, people seem to forget that one of America's most important ports, a critical city to the entire economy of everything west of the Atlantic seaboard, is in the Deep South.

New Orleans also spent many decades as in the top 5 cities by population in the country - at its height it was 3rd after New York City and Philadelphia

# ? Jul 9, 2016 04:28