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was busy the last few days, and want sure i wanted to continue roll cage chat. anyway why are manufacturer backed wrc, lemans, etc cars using "X" door bars? The outward pointing x you see on something like a porsche rsr has more section than parallel bars, especially if they aren't both hit. Personally, i wouldn't want to take a hard side hit with one or two straight door bars, which is apparently ok for rally in some places. Although it seems the head and neck are more important in those cases anyway. A friend of mine died recently going into a corner station sideways, and from what i gather the door bars weren't the problem.
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Jul 10, 2016 05:32
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Read my post again and you might have your answer, here I'll even quote it again for youquote:The current best of practice is in fact three bars in place, two bars higher up that are uncut and bent to touch and then welded and gusseted, with a third bar lower down. You now have the triangulation and better ability to transfer energy better from front to rear, as well as higher resistance to side impact and less risk of bar breakage that the traditional diagonals expose you to. The issue with X Bars is the welds crete a very nice weak point. Cut / weld snap. Straight dont. Your statement that the cage shown is a death trap was wrong. It is perfectly fine and proven to work in side impact
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Jul 10, 2016 08:24
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I'm okay well roll cage chat. I don't race outside of autocross but the tech has always been interesting to me. Plus, this thread often falls back to page 3-4 so it's not like we have anything better to talk about. Somewhat on topic. Racing STU autox for the first time officially. I've got my nifty pyrometer to get some sweet tire data and hopefully yield some positive conclusions about where I need to go with my suspension. You know, besides addressing my bushings whining about the tires that stick out 40mm further than stock.
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Jul 10, 2016 11:06
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Will installing a roll cage in a 2016 Forester negatively impact the resale value?
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Jul 10, 2016 22:55
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Three-Phase posted:Will installing a roll cage in a 2016 Forester negatively impact the resale value? ...yes, significantly.
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Jul 11, 2016 01:30
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Three-Phase posted:Will installing a roll cage in a 2016 Forester negatively impact the resale value? ... Ummm just slightly. And why the hell do you want to do that anyway?
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Jul 11, 2016 01:41
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Had the first chance to drive my WRX hard yesterday and this car is better than I am. e: Here's another question. Is it worth getting an additional steering wheel cover if I tend to have sweaty palms? I don't want to ruin the leather on the steering wheel.
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Jul 11, 2016 01:44
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net work error posted:Here's another question. Is it worth getting an additional steering wheel cover if I tend to have sweaty palms? I don't want to ruin the leather on the steering wheel. Just clean and condition it and you'll be fine.
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Jul 11, 2016 01:50
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:... Ummm just slightly. And why the hell do you want to do that anyway? Hey you never know what happens. But I did check and that doesn't appear to be listed with the other factory options (like the fancy mats, trunk liner, etceteras). So that would be an aftermarket modification. Also the dealer quoted me $250 for a full size spare. That's a wheel plus a tire. So that seems like a pretty good deal.
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Jul 11, 2016 01:52
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You'd be better off with an external cage.
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Jul 11, 2016 03:11
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I read the Forester cage post as a joke, haha. So I turned off driver's aids for one run to see what would happen. I'm not even sure what I did with my hands. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrXJxx89u9o  Pyrometer Science The insides of my front tires read 115F while the outside was 104F. Too much camber. I will run the next even with the camber reduced a little. Once I get the inside and outside running evenly, I will use pyrometer testing to figure out tire pressures. When I get through this (may take a few months to get tangible results) I'll post what I have.
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Jul 11, 2016 03:39
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That's not very hot, and not a huge difference. Also keep in mind that you might still increase cornering grip when you are past the point of even tire temps, and even when reduced braking from too much camber come into play. So for, like, extended lapping and endurance racing you want the temps to be pretty even across the tire, but for time attack or auto-x type stuff a bit of extra heat on the inside isn't going to be a huge deal and will probably be faster.
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Jul 11, 2016 03:47
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I can't really get the tires hotter in the short time I'm on the course. Things like sunlight also keep throwing off the readings since the outer tread is exposed outside of the fender. Today was a bit cloudy so it was the clearest numbers I've gotten. The road temp was 91 degrees. Out of curiosity, what temperatures would yield an actual result?
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Jul 11, 2016 04:01
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um excuse me posted:I can't really get the tires hotter in the short time I'm on the course. Things like sunlight also keep throwing off the readings since the outer tread is exposed outside of the fender. Today was a bit cloudy so it was the clearest numbers I've gotten. The road temp was 91 degrees. Out of curiosity, what temperatures would yield an actual result? It really depends on the tire and surface conditions; I would chase for uniformed temperatures using the manufacturers recommended operating temperatures before tweaking suspension, especially for auto-x where the majority of your laps are cold.
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Jul 11, 2016 04:57
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Three-Phase posted:Hey you never know what happens. But I did check and that doesn't appear to be listed with the other factory options (like the fancy mats, trunk liner, etceteras). So that would be an aftermarket modification. Get non dealer mats. The dealer options like that all cost way more than they do at an auto store.
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Jul 11, 2016 06:13
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I might be getting back into Subaru in the form of an 08' Impreza that a co-worker needs to get rid of before moving. It has 110k miles and aside from apparently never having the timing belt done and a few bump and scrapes, seems to be in really good shape. Given my previous experience with Subaru (spectacular head gasket failure) I'm a little worried about the 2.5 SOHC in this thing. As far as I can tell Subaru never really put proper headgaskets in these engines until 2010 so while it's not as common to fail as the earlier engines it's still a thing. Should I pre-emptively replace the gaskets at this mileage or ride it out? If I'm getting the gaskets done and the engine is out is there anything else I should be thinking of doing?
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Jul 11, 2016 06:58
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Do you really want to buy a car where the owner hasnt replaced a critical item like a timing belt in nearly double its service life?
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Jul 11, 2016 08:26
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A Saucy Bratwurst posted:Do you really want to buy a car where the owner hasnt replaced a critical item like a timing belt in nearly double its service life? Wasn't the service interval on those 105k mi? Pretty sure that was what it was on my lgt.
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Jul 11, 2016 08:42
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AFAIK in Aus we do them every 100k km on pretty much every car, I'm 99% sure it says that in my service book too but I lost that 2 moves ago. 110 miles is ~177km
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Jul 11, 2016 09:02
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A Saucy Bratwurst posted:AFAIK in Aus we do them every 100k km on pretty much every car, I'm 99% sure it says that in my service book too but I lost that 2 moves ago. Later 6 cyl are 160,000kms in Aust. I think the SOHC has a longer interval as well - honeslty tho if the rest of the servicing has been done it's not a biggie (And according to the US maintenace schedule a 2008 Impreza actually is 168,000Km), it does need to be factored in and done now. There's also a lot more than timing belt as well tho so that will need to be factored in too. If the service history is good, worth a look but as said, factor in a timing belt major service. It's due.
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Jul 11, 2016 09:25
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Thats the first I've heard of it not being every 100km here but the newest car I have experience with is my own so yeah newer cars must use better or thicker/stronger materials. I wonder why they did that instead of just going to a chain.
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Jul 11, 2016 09:33
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Welp, put my FXT up on craigslist  drat that's depressing to type out.
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Jul 11, 2016 13:55
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A Saucy Bratwurst posted:AFAIK in Aus we do them every 100k km on pretty much every car, I'm 99% sure it says that in my service book too but I lost that 2 moves ago. That's because in Aus you put them on upside down. 8ender posted:I might be getting back into Subaru in the form of an 08' Impreza that a co-worker needs to get rid of before moving. It has 110k miles and aside from apparently never having the timing belt done and a few bump and scrapes, seems to be in really good shape. Given my previous experience with Subaru (spectacular head gasket failure) I'm a little worried about the 2.5 SOHC in this thing. As far as I can tell Subaru never really put proper headgaskets in these engines until 2010 so while it's not as common to fail as the earlier engines it's still a thing. I just did this to an 05 Impreza with 108k that I bought from a co-worker cheap. One side had a slight external leak, but nothing internal and no overheating. I would watch them closely for any signs of oil leaking and any overheating. If you do pull the engine to do the gaskets, it will be much easier to replace the timing belt/water pump (that can be done in car though). Make sure to get MLS gaskets, not the dealer specified single layer. I think the Subaru part number is in the OP. I went with Six Star MLS gaskets on mine.
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Jul 11, 2016 16:01
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Interval in my manual for my 2002 WRX was 105k miles. I changed it at 108k and the belt was still pristine. No cracks or other signs of wear. The pulleys, on the other hand, sounded like roller skate wheels.
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Jul 11, 2016 16:25
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bull3964 posted:Interval in my manual for my 2002 WRX was 105k miles. I changed it at 108k and the belt was still pristine. No cracks or other signs of wear. The pulleys, on the other hand, sounded like roller skate wheels. Same with my '04 FXT. Belt was fine, pulleys were shot.
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Jul 11, 2016 16:39
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um excuse me posted:I can't really get the tires hotter in the short time I'm on the course. Things like sunlight also keep throwing off the readings since the outer tread is exposed outside of the fender. Today was a bit cloudy so it was the clearest numbers I've gotten. The road temp was 91 degrees. Out of curiosity, what temperatures would yield an actual result? Yeah that is basically the cold temp. I would guess your tires don't really start working their best until more like 150 or so and on a track you could see 200. I mean, there are still differences, but like you said they are going to be affected more by sun and conditions. My point is just that a little hotter on the inside is not a big deal for you. Also, are you using a probe or ir gun?
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Jul 11, 2016 18:17
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Last time I talked to a tire guy a Hoosier, they said shoot for a 20F or less spread across the tire, albeit at a temperature around 180F.
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Jul 11, 2016 18:56
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bull3964 posted:Interval in my manual for my 2002 WRX was 105k miles. I changed it at 108k and the belt was still pristine. No cracks or other signs of wear. The pulleys, on the other hand, sounded like roller skate wheels. My understanding is the real reason for the interval is for the accesories, pullies, and tensioners.
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Jul 11, 2016 19:16
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jamal posted:Also, are you using a probe or ir gun? IR gun pretty much touching the face I'm trying to measure
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Jul 11, 2016 19:38
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um excuse me posted:IR gun pretty much touching the face I'm trying to measure Oh, yeah, that's not useful for tire temps. The surface loses heat way too fast. BTDT.
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Jul 11, 2016 20:13
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Tool thread says the phone mounted FLIR systems are on sale today. Would that be any better?
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Jul 11, 2016 20:23
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um excuse me posted:Tool thread says the phone mounted FLIR systems are on sale today. Would that be any better? There's a lot of cool crap you can do with IR thermometers, and I'm ordering one of those FLIR things too, but for tires, not really. Next race weekend I'll quantify how much worse the IR thermometer is exactly, because now I'm curious... but I've seen data of cars with onboard IR thermometers that had the tire temperatures going up by 50 degrees in a braking zone, and dropping off to a baseline number about ten seconds after that. An IR thermometer will only be reading the temperature of the outside skin of the tire... and since rolling through pits is going to be directly conducting heat to the track, black radiates heat pretty well, and since rubber's a good insulator, the outermost bit cools a lot faster than the rest. The probe pyrometers poke a couple millimeters in to hit rubber that won't cool down nearly as fast.
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Jul 11, 2016 20:40
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um excuse me posted:Tool thread says the phone mounted FLIR systems are on sale today. Would that be any better? They are not that accurate and will have the same problem as an IR thermometer to boot.
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Jul 11, 2016 20:44
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um excuse me posted:IR gun pretty much touching the face I'm trying to measure You'll lose around 10-50F just checking the surface alone. A probe will be much more useful with consistent results, as you can get down to the cord where the surface temps aren't going to change rapidly and throw off your readings. That's not to say an IR thermometer is useless, you can still use it to check your brakes and track conditions. McSpatula fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Jul 11, 2016 |
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Jul 11, 2016 23:41
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If you're doing any IR temperature readings (thermal imager or just thermometer) make sure you're aware of surface emissivity. Basically if you take the temperature of a polished smooth metal, you'll just get a measurement of IR that is reflected by the surface. Not the actual temperature of the surface. If you take a very smooth piece of metal like aluminum you can see your own thermal image in it, like a mirror but for IR. To fix this you need a target that has really high emissivity. Electrical tape works extremely well for that.
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Jul 12, 2016 02:46
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Three-Phase posted:If you're doing any IR temperature readings (thermal imager or just thermometer) make sure you're aware of surface emissivity. I use a water soluble black paint at work for thermal acoustic imaging. They come in spray cans. It has fantastic emissivity properties. Possibly a moot point if tires cool as quickly as everyone says, though.
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Jul 12, 2016 04:47
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I was going to say too that those little phone-mounted Flirs are amazing but don't expect really high resolution or temperature range. If you wanted to be really crazy you could maybe install IR thermometer elements inside the wheel wells and run that to a DAQ system inside the car to continually gather tire temperature data.
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Jul 12, 2016 11:23
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It's not even that expensive to do wheel well mounted IR thermometer elements and a DAQ anymore. Well. For some values of "not even that expensive".
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Jul 12, 2016 12:16
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Or you can learn how to read the tyre. Temp readers are one thing and a valuable tool but they dont really tell you as much as a good read of how the tyre is wearing. They outside tyre temp too high? There's a few reasons why that could be the case. The tyre on the other hand will tell you straight away - there's distintive wear for any of the cases of tyre pressure too high or low, rebound / compression need to be changed, camber or castor need to be changed, toe in / out needs adjustment... or even if I have just been driving like an idiot. As an example and a much easier tyre to read would be how the blocks of a rally tread are being chipped away and where - for how I like a car to handle, I'm looking for the inside to be feathered in a particular way with the edges going in a certain pattern - that's my first check. Then I take tyre pressure and then temps. Same principle stands tho on a track, just the wear and featherings are more subtle. So after a session, I'll come in, look at the tyres first, then do the temps and pressures. That gives me a complete picture.
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Jul 12, 2016 12:23
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| # ? Apr 28, 2024 18:43 |
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8ender posted:I might be getting back into Subaru in the form of an 08' Impreza that a co-worker needs to get rid of before moving. It has 110k miles and aside from apparently never having the timing belt done and a few bump and scrapes, seems to be in really good shape. Given my previous experience with Subaru (spectacular head gasket failure) I'm a little worried about the 2.5 SOHC in this thing. As far as I can tell Subaru never really put proper headgaskets in these engines until 2010 so while it's not as common to fail as the earlier engines it's still a thing. I have an 08 impreza and the timing belt interval is 105K miles in the manual. My left side valve cover gasket was leaking and both sides' spark tube seals had failed into all 4 spark plug tubes @ 92K miles. I'm watching the driver's side head gasket because I suspect it's about to fail externally, that's why I did the valve cover gasket, to eliminate a source of oil. I cleaned the underside of the engine, so if it leaks on that side, it's engine-pull time, since that'll be the head gasket telling me it needs to be replaced. I think I've read in this thread that Subaru started putting MLS gaskets on the 2009+ NA models.
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Jul 12, 2016 13:28
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