Star Citizen: Big MoMA's House

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a whole buncha crows: May 8, 2003; WHEN WE DON'T KNOW WHO TO HATE, WE HATE OURSELVES.-SA USER NATION (AKA ME!)

peter gabriel posted:

What he did do is say it is reasonable for the game to take upto 5 years to make, he said this as a lawyer for the game that started development 5 years ago, in a legal letter

look we have a foolproof defense, the money is all ours now, but we read your complaint and decided it's in our interest to comply

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:28

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 02:36

TTerrible: Jul 15, 2005

Streetroller posted:

Ok, so after a while of dealing with Cloud Imperium Games, I have finally received a refund of $3000 USD.

After the terms of service change, I contacted CIG and requested a full refund.
Here's a full transcript with personal identifying information removed.

Essentially, a full denial.
I did exactly what I said I would, and ended up recovering $900 dollars through Amazon payments.

On June 29th, I received three official responses, pretty much identical in spirit, though the one I received from the District Attorney of Los Angeles was signed by Ortwin personally.

Two days later, I received Paypal responses about my inquiry of a refund. I received the following response on all my claims:

Then, on July 11th, I was contacted by an LA County Investigator inquiring information about CIG and RSI.
We had about an hour long conversation, where I detailed everything about CIG and how I felt it was a scam (my opinion)
He told me to get as many people as I can to write complaints into them, so they can build a case.
Here: http://dcba.lacounty.gov/wps/portal/dca
For clarity, I'M DEREKS SOURCE FOR THAT

Less than 24 hours later, I received the additional balance of what I was unable to recover.

I plan to record an upload a video to Youtube detailing my journey, but I promised to update the thread for you guys, so here you are.

Where is MAN OF MANY REASONS WHY CIG DONT HAVE TO GIVE REFUNDS ?

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:29

Beet Wagon: Oct 19, 2015

gently caress, we're even better at coming up with funny names for Derek than they are.

reddit, you really suck.

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:30

Creed Reunion Tour: Jul 3, 2007; by Cyrano4747; Grimey Drawer

Lazrin posted:

i don't want to see positivity. i want to see objectivity.

but you've proven you can't do it. take a look at the last 10-20 posts i've made, and the responses.

Just for your viewing pleasure I went and found the first star citizen thread made back in 2012. People were objectively positive about the game back then, sorry our positivity is no longer objective I guess.
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3511398

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:30

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

Nation posted:

look we have a foolproof defense, the money is all ours now, but we read your complaint and decided it's in our interest to comply

That was my favourite part, even after his water tight arguments about WoW.
He is just being a nice guy, the rest of his letter is pretty damning, like Ironside or some such poo poo, refund guy is lucky he is such a good dude imo

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:30

Trillhouse: Dec 31, 2000

Thank you for taking the time to stand up for yourself streetroller. This could help others get refunds and at protecting consumer rights should always be applauded.

I'm surprised but not really that Ortwin himself replied to the letter. Is his time so worthless that he has to spend billable hours fussing over a 3k refund? Wouldn't it be cheaper to just refund them than to drag it out and waste the time of one of RSIs kingpins? Not to mention it brings more negative legal attention to RSI.

What I'm getting at is that RSI is stupid.

Trillhouse fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Jul 12, 2016

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:31

Atreiden: May 4, 2008

Refunds are not fair to the new backers that join every month - because reasons.

Signed.
Ortwin Freyermuth,
Attorney at law,
Co-funder
Vice- Chairman,
General Counselor,
F�hrer und Reichskanzler des deutschen Volkes

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:31

big nipples big life: May 12, 2014

Lazrin posted:

i don't want to see positivity. i want to see objectivity.

but you've proven you can't do it. take a look at the last 10-20 posts i've made, and the responses.

You posted but it doesn't contain any positive stuff to come out of CIG in the past few years.

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:31

Colostomy Bag: Jan 11, 2016; C-Bangin' it

Gee, hopefully the precise funding tracker accurately accounted for the past few large amounts of refunds we've had this week.

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:31

TheAgent: Feb 16, 2002; The call is coming from inside Dr. House; Grimey Drawer

that entire ortwin letter has gently caress YOU AND YOUR loving REFUND BITCH written all over it lol

now I really wanna see that amd letter

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:32

Hav: Dec 11, 2009; Fun Shoe

TTerrible posted:

Where is MAN OF MANY REASONS WHY CIG DONT HAVE TO GIVE REFUNDS ?

Or apparently since December 2015, call it seven months or so, 300,000 players have managed five hours.

300,000 players have logged up to five hours apiece since their last major release.

That's pretty goddamned awful. Pgabz is over-averaging, and he's literally mad about it.

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:32

Tijuana Bibliophile: Dec 30, 2008; Scratchmo

Lazrin posted:

i don't want to see positivity. i want to see objectivity.

but you've proven you can't do it. take a look at the last 10-20 posts i've made, and the responses.

All of your posts have been awesome and I'm ashamed at the way we've responded to your good faith effort to join us on our merry and gay journey through the 'verse

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:33

Nancy: Nov 23, 2005; Young Orc

Lazrin posted:

i don't want to see positivity. i want to see objectivity.

Actually, I think you'll find you just want to wank off onto your face and lick all the jizz while dreaming about how righteous you are.

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:33

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

TheAgent posted:

that entire ortwin letter has gently caress YOU AND YOUR loving REFUND BITCH written all over it lol

It does but OMG WE ARE ACTUALLY POWERLESS TO STOP THIS angle kind of takes the edge off it :lol:

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:33

Atreiden: May 4, 2008

I have played more star citizen than most backers, just by reading this thread.

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:34

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

Lazrin posted:

i don't want to see positivity. i want to see objectivity.

but you've proven you can't do it. take a look at the last 10-20 posts i've made, and the responses.

I objectively think you are a moron, hope this helps

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:34

Hav: Dec 11, 2009; Fun Shoe

Tijuana Bibliophile posted:

our merry and gay journey through the 'verse

I wasn't aware that it was merry _and_ gay.

I may have to rethink my choices.

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:35

Nancy: Nov 23, 2005; Young Orc

Hav posted:

Or apparently since December 2015, call it seven months or so, 300,000 players have managed five hours.

300,000 players have logged up to five hours apiece since their last major release.

That's pretty goddamned awful. Pgabz is over-averaging, and he's literally mad about it.

Twitch viewership for SC is dead, player numbers are abysmal, youtube views are fractions of the player base. It doesn't really matter if SC is the next best thing since sliced bread, the game is clearly a non-starter.

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:35

Tijuana Bibliophile: Dec 30, 2008; Scratchmo

RSI's developing affiliates are completing the game well within this typical timeframe while continuing to release early modules for advance enjoyment by the backer community

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:36

Propagandist: Oct 23, 2007

But obv they state very CLEARLY that they do not heretoforth therewith parpthorf HAVE to, thereas they are not BOUND lawyertarian pro-counsel to YIELD payment towards PLEDGES. Pro-bono. Cassus belli.

This FACT was defined by the updated ALPHA Terms of SERVICE version 4.$, which he EXPRESSLY agreed to by taking a poo poo this morning.

They simply gave it back out of the kindness of their hearts. A purely positive thing that is representative of CiG.

you know absolutely nothing about game development, money laundering, or tax fraud. Good day sir. I ate a PB&J for lunch. Furthermore,

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:36

Atreiden: May 4, 2008

Also lol, according to Ortwin SC is the first large scale computer game to be crowdfunded. gently caress all the other games, they weren't large enough in scale i guess.

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:36

necroid: May 14, 2009

Streetroller posted:

Ok, so after a while of dealing with Cloud Imperium Games, I have finally received a refund of $3000 USD.

After the terms of service change, I contacted CIG and requested a full refund.
Here's a full transcript with personal identifying information removed.

Essentially, a full denial.
I did exactly what I said I would, and ended up recovering $900 dollars through Amazon payments.

On June 29th, I received three official responses, pretty much identical in spirit, though the one I received from the District Attorney of Los Angeles was signed by Ortwin personally.

Two days later, I received Paypal responses about my inquiry of a refund. I received the following response on all my claims:

Then, on July 11th, I was contacted by an LA County Investigator inquiring information about CIG and RSI.
We had about an hour long conversation, where I detailed everything about CIG and how I felt it was a scam (my opinion)
He told me to get as many people as I can to write complaints into them, so they can build a case.
Here: http://dcba.lacounty.gov/wps/portal/dca
For clarity, I'M DEREKS SOURCE FOR THAT

Less than 24 hours later, I received the additional balance of what I was unable to recover.

I plan to record an upload a video to Youtube detailing my journey, but I promised to update the thread for you guys, so here you are.

lol three thousand dollars

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:36

Beer4TheBeerGod: Aug 23, 2004; Exciting Lemon

Hav posted:

Or apparently since December 2015, call it seven months or so, 300,000 players have managed five hours.

300,000 players have logged up to five hours apiece since their last major release.

That's pretty goddamned awful. Pgabz is over-averaging, and he's literally mad about it.

It was pretty nice of Ortwin to spell out exactly how lovely their game really is.

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:36

tastychicken: Jul 17, 2007; Title text goes here

ManofManyAliases posted:

Even though there is "open development," I never once expected to see their roadmap. They're a private company with competitors in the field. A company like Elite's can choose to show whatever the gently caress they want. That doesn't mean it's precedent to do so.

Yes, that's exactly what it means.

But I like you MoMA. You make me feel smart!

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:37

Ratmtattat: Mar 10, 2004; the hairdryer

I can't stop gawking at how terrible that Ortwin letter is. Referring to refunds for failing to deliver by the specified date as a "takeback" What a piece of poo poo. I'm glad I got my small amount of money back many months ago. gently caress these guys.

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:38

Lime Tonics: Nov 7, 2015; by FactsAreUseless

Who would have thought that their new archaic, bullshit crazy rant TOS, was just that?

The cracks are widening, now you can almost squeeze through the wall.

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:38

Fat Shat Sings: Jan 24, 2016

Atreiden posted:

Refunds are not fair to the new backers that join every month - because reasons.

Signed.
Ortwin Freyermuth,
Attorney at law,
Co-funder
Vice- Chairman,
General Counselor,
F�hrer und Reichskanzler des deutschen Volkes

That's how ponzi's work, you have to pay the new people with the investments of the established people.

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:38

TheAgent: Feb 16, 2002; The call is coming from inside Dr. House; Grimey Drawer

gonna kickstart the word "ortwinian"

highest tier is $15,000 and you get to use that word in all manner of media, up to and including major motion pictures

estimated release date is march 2026

(includes LTI)

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:39

Strangler 42: Jan 8, 2007; SHAVE IT ALL OFF
ALL OF IT

Trillhouse posted:

Thank you for taking the time to stand up for yourself streetroller. This could help others get refunds and at protecting consumer rights should always be applauded.

I'm surprised but not really that Ortwin himself replied to the letter. Is his time so worthless that he has to spend billable hours fussing over a 3k refund? Wouldn't it be cheaper to just refund them than to drag it out and waste the time of one of RSIs kingpins? Not to mention it brings more negative legal attention to RSI.

What I'm getting at is that RSI is stupid.

If you make it easy for anyone to get a refund then they all start wanting refunds. There may come a point where fighting them is more costly than just outright refunding them but doing so would show everyone that the project is in trouble and that might cause funding to dry up even faster. Better to fight them now and see how long they can keep the pain train chugging along.

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:39

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

It was pretty nice of Ortwin to spell out exactly how lovely their game really is.

It's also nice of him to show how pants on head useless he is in general.
That whole letter is a self own of majestic proportions

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:39

Hav: Dec 11, 2009; Fun Shoe

Atreiden posted:

Also lol, according to Ortwin SC is the first large scale computer game to be crowdfunded. gently caress all the other games, they weren't large enough in scale i guess.

All the ones delivered so far are smaller in scope. An Octopode could see that.

The very length of development is showing everyone what a special developmental unicorn this is. A very paradigm shift in how space games will be made in the future and a very benchmark for legislation to come.

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

It was pretty nice of Ortwin to spell out exactly how lovely their game really is.

I mean, drat. At least throw your figures on the back of an envelope and come up with better than 'Our players are so happy, they're averaging under an hour a month'.

peter gabriel posted:

That whole letter is a self own of majestic proportions

He's done a Cameron.

Hav fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Jul 12, 2016

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:41

big nipples big life: May 12, 2014

Atreiden posted:

Also lol, according to Ortwin SC is the first large scale computer game to be crowdfunded. gently caress all the other games, they weren't large enough in scale i guess.

See those are actual games which have finite scale, "dreams" and "vision" cannot be measured and that is why they had to change the TOS to say they don't even have to develop anything and still get to keep the money.

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:41

Xaerael: Aug 25, 2010; Marching Powder is objectively the worst poster known. He also needs to learn how a keyboard works.

Star Citizen - Our backers have an average of 5 hours logged, so no refunds. Furthermore...

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:42

a whole buncha crows: May 8, 2003; WHEN WE DON'T KNOW WHO TO HATE, WE HATE OURSELVES.-SA USER NATION (AKA ME!)

necroid posted:

lol three thousand dollars

dont lol

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:42

Colostomy Bag: Jan 11, 2016; C-Bangin' it

Lime Tonics posted:

The cracks are widening, now you can almost squeeze through the wall.

Ben feels grief.

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:43

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

never in the history of crowdfunding has a crysis mod of this magnitude with one playable area ever been envisioned

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:43

a whole buncha crows: May 8, 2003; WHEN WE DON'T KNOW WHO TO HATE, WE HATE OURSELVES.-SA USER NATION (AKA ME!)

4000 dollars tho moma are you loving mental

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:44

Lime Tonics: Nov 7, 2015; by FactsAreUseless

I like how when star citizen is exposed more as a slimy scam company, the shills run away, but come back hours later with some other non-sense.

Repeat for infinity.

paarp

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:44

Tijuana Bibliophile: Dec 30, 2008; Scratchmo

Hav posted:

I mean, drat. At least throw your figures on the back of an envelope and come up with better than 'Our players are so happy, they're averaging under an hour a month'.

To be fair he states that's the time backers have enjoyed with the game modules, the actual in-game time is likely fourty times that

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:45

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 02:36

Colostomy Bag: Jan 11, 2016; C-Bangin' it

Star Citizen: Five hours playing, fifty hours patching

# ? Jul 12, 2016 19:45

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