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bull3964 posted:You go from the TV show special effects to motherfucking ILM in the prime of miniatures. I'll grant them their indulgence, I'm sure the fans appreciated it at the time. ILM had nothing to do with TMP, they came on for TWOK. I think Magicam built most of the starship models. Special effects was a huge reason why TMP went so staggeringly over-budget; Paramount spent millions on overtime after Robert Abel & Associates failed to produce, and even then they drat near didn't make their premiere date.
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Jul 12, 2016 19:28
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As usual, docevil is at the intersection of devops and star trek. https://twitter.com/fart/status/752924649994854400
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Jul 12, 2016 22:38
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TMP had to call in two new VFX teams to get the movie finished in time, which now is par for the course and why you get so many VFX company credits, but back then represented practically the entire industry - ILM at that time was being rebuilt solely to make Empire. Douglas Trumbull did the Enterprise and V'ger stuff, while John Dykstra did the Klingon battle and I think the wormhole. It's worth getting the Cinefex app to read the old issues about TMP (and VFX of that era in general), because it's far more interesting seeing how much of a struggle it was to get anything on screen in the days of motion control and photochemical bluescreen than "we shot live elements on a green stage with motion-tracking markers and comped them together on a PC".
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Jul 12, 2016 22:49
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Hyperriker posted:I always lose my poo poo about how good Picard's quarters looked with the Amargosa sunlight flooding through the windows. Absolutely terrific. Guinan's room as well. I thought the Movie Lighting on the ship made it look like a submarine, which is altogether dumb considering the general gist of Star Trek. There are times when the Original Series movies had cavern lighting too, but it always served a purpose to what was happening and was much better-designed. Meanwhile, you go into Picard's quarters in Generations and wonder how he gets any work done in there when apparently any ambient light from space turns the entire room ORANGE-AS-FUCKKKKK I mean, they're just really loving bad movies, and I say that as a guy who grew up with TNG.
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Jul 12, 2016 22:51
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It still boggles my mind that they couldn't be bothered to have consistent uniforms either....rather than get a whole new set of the DS9 version uniforms, they had like half TNG ones and half DS9. So lazy.
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Jul 12, 2016 22:53
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FlamingLiberal posted:It still boggles my mind that they couldn't be bothered to have consistent uniforms either....rather than get a whole new set of the DS9 version uniforms, they had like half TNG ones and half DS9. So lazy. I had a friend who was former Navy and she insisted that was actually pretty realistic. The Navy would roll out new uniforms and you'd have a year to get the new one. So during that transitional period, you'd have half the ship on the old one and half the ship on the new one.
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Jul 12, 2016 22:58
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By the way, my assessment is that the TMP uniforms are pretty cool and they actually make a pass at being somewhat utilitarian.
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Jul 12, 2016 23:02
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:By the way, my assessment is that the TMP uniforms are pretty cool and they actually make a pass at being somewhat utilitarian.
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Jul 12, 2016 23:03
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Instant Sunrise posted:I had a friend who was former Navy and she insisted that was actually pretty realistic. The Navy would roll out new uniforms and you'd have a year to get the new one. So during that transitional period, you'd have half the ship on the old one and half the ship on the new one.
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Jul 12, 2016 23:04
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It's also a universe with tailors. Maybe the ship's tailor had his or her hands full?
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Jul 12, 2016 23:10
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Tyson Tomko posted:Say what you want about Voyager, but you can't say they didn't try at least a little. They did stellar cartography and had a stupid yet doable excuse behind it. Ensign Kim and 7 of 9 along with some Borg technology and bam badass sensors 100x better than what they had or some jazz. It was clearly a way to show stuff on a huge display for dramatic effect but it worked and was pretty cool. I mean in terms of innovating future tech and interface ideas, being Sci-fi about it; Voyager's astrometrics was just a big screen.
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Jul 12, 2016 23:12
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:By the way, my assessment is that the TMP uniforms are pretty cool and they actually make a pass at being somewhat utilitarian. The TMP uniforms have great lines, but the color scheme is too washed out. I still like them a lot better than the uniforms from the rest of the movies though.
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Jul 12, 2016 23:22
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FlamingLiberal posted:It still boggles my mind that they couldn't be bothered to have consistent uniforms either....rather than get a whole new set of the DS9 version uniforms, they had like half TNG ones and half DS9. So lazy. Because they scrapped the new uniforms last second. I really like these designs, too. 
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Jul 12, 2016 23:22
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And the integrated fanny packs are goofy.
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Jul 12, 2016 23:24
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Tyson Tomko posted:That's why I really liked the weird gesture aliens in Voyager that showed up for a few seconds. They were weird but definitely pretty alien compared to most. Weird but alien is something I hope the new series isn't afraid to do with their races, assuming they have the budget for it. Both visually and conceptually I think my ideal alien style would be somewhere between Farscape and a bunch of old sci-fi games like Star Control 2 and Master of Orion, updated for 2017, but retaining the eccentricities.
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Jul 12, 2016 23:45
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Data Graham posted:And the integrated fanny packs are goofy. Weren't they supposed to be attachment points for seat harnesses?
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Jul 12, 2016 23:49
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FlamingLiberal posted:It still boggles my mind that they couldn't be bothered to have consistent uniforms either....rather than get a whole new set of the DS9 version uniforms, they had like half TNG ones and half DS9. So lazy. They do it all the time. I remember when the founder signs the peace on DS9, about three years after the first contact costumes came in, there is a shifty looking guy stood in the corner wearing a tng s3 uniform. Also, how long on tnt did it take the extras to get the collar uniforms?
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Jul 13, 2016 00:15
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FlamingLiberal posted:It still boggles my mind that they couldn't be bothered to have consistent uniforms either....rather than get a whole new set of the DS9 version uniforms, they had like half TNG ones and half DS9. So lazy. Basically, it was because they didn't have the money after blowing the costume budget on the new uniforms that they trashed at the last minute. So Spiner and Stewart were the only two to have uniforms specifically tailored for them. Frakes wore stuff from Avery Brooks' wardrobe (which didn't fit at all, hence why Riker's sleeves are rolled up) and Burton was wearing Colm Meaney's stuff, which also didn't fit at all. Gaz-L posted:Weren't they supposed to be attachment points for seat harnesses? They were supposed to be "bio-force monitors." Payndz posted:It's worth getting the Cinefex app to read the old issues about TMP (and VFX of that era in general), because it's far more interesting seeing how much of a struggle it was to get anything on screen in the days of motion control and photochemical bluescreen than "we shot live elements on a green stage with motion-tracking markers and comped them together on a PC". If you want to read something incredibly in-depth about TMP's production -- I mean so in-depth it makes the Cinefex articles look like broad abstracts -- pick up Return to Tomorrow: The Production of Star Trek: The Motion Picture. Preston Neal Jones was given unfettered access to everyone involved, and the book covers literally everything: Pre-production and writing, filming, and the third section is like 100+ pages of ultra-detailed information about all the VFX work. Like, there will be six paragraphs about how a single two-second shot was accomplished. It was originally intended as a cover story for CFQ, they killed the story, and then last year Jones decided to release his entire manuscript.
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Jul 13, 2016 00:34
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Delsaber posted:Weird but alien is something I hope the new series isn't afraid to do with their races, assuming they have the budget for it. I want most of the aliens to be incomprehensible masses of waving fronds
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Jul 13, 2016 00:35
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Brawnfire posted:I want most of the aliens to be incomprehensible masses of waving fronds Potplant on a roomba, got it.
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Jul 13, 2016 00:37
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There's also a book floating around about the production of Phase II, and even includes the pilot script for "In Thy Image" (which became TMP) and "Devil's Due," which became a season 4 TNG episode.
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Jul 13, 2016 00:38
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MikeJF posted:Potplant on a roomba, got it. Oooh, I also want a Star Trek where there's so many synthetic life forms that they literally crowd out living sentients. Take the DATA SO SPECIAL thing and turn it on its head; there's so many of them it's obnoxious, and they all have their own particular idiosyncratic ways of being obnoxious
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Jul 13, 2016 00:41
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One of the Xindi races were a bunch of talking fish!
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Jul 13, 2016 00:44
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Brawnfire posted:Oooh, I also want a Star Trek where there's so many synthetic life forms that they literally crowd out living sentients. Take the DATA SO SPECIAL thing and turn it on its head; there's so many of them it's obnoxious, and they all have their own particular idiosyncratic ways of being obnoxious I want a Trek where Deck 9 section 3 is vapour sulphuric acid atmosphere and section 5 is 400 degrees and deck 10 and 11 starboard are entirely submerged and etc I mean the main characters would only go there occasionally, it wouldn't be too bad production-wise. Although it's been implied before that Starfleet partially segregates ships based on species, which would make sense for those cases. But the Enterprise could be more diverse as the flagship. And have an entire population of AI. Some manifest as humanoid holograms. Some look just like weird static. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Jul 13, 2016 |
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Jul 13, 2016 00:46
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Kazy posted:Because they scrapped the new uniforms last second. I really like these designs, too. Holy poo poo, fold down breast flap???
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Jul 13, 2016 00:58
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Rhyno posted:Holy poo poo, fold down breast flap??? I can only hope the lining fabric is gold lame. MikeJF posted:I want a Trek where Deck 9 section 3 is vapour sulphuric acid atmosphere and section 5 is 400 degrees and deck 10 and 11 starboard are entirely submerged and etc Well naturally you need a place for Kosh to live
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Jul 13, 2016 01:01
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Rhyno posted:Holy poo poo, fold down breast flap??? Yep. They basically married the TNG uniforms with aspects of the movie uniforms -- the breast flap, rank stripes on the wrists. You can briefly see it in a deleted scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEaR1rkhy00
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Jul 13, 2016 01:04
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Baka-nin posted:On a first watch straight after Q Who its pretty bad, but it does have some redeeming qualities. It's hard not to smirk when the ultra smug early TNG crew get outwitted by the morons from outer space, and I can't help but smile as they slap Geordi around with their space lazers. Is it just my imagination/the GIF quality or is Geordi getting gibbed here?
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Jul 13, 2016 01:06
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Geordi actually died and they replicated a new one.
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Jul 13, 2016 01:20
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Timby posted:Yep. They basically married the TNG uniforms with aspects of the movie uniforms -- the breast flap, rank stripes on the wrists. You can briefly see it in a deleted scene: drat, could that video be any worse? But man, that's like the dream uniform.
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Jul 13, 2016 01:25
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I'm disappointed they scrapped those...it seems to combine the TOS movie uniforms of ST2-6 and the TNG unis. Was it a case of them not looking right on film or something?
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Jul 13, 2016 01:25
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FlamingLiberal posted:Was it a case of them not looking right on film or something? Supposedly the decision came from on high -- like, above Berman -- that the new uniforms would have constituted introducing "too many new elements" to the film. 
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Jul 13, 2016 01:34
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Timby posted:Supposedly the decision came from on high -- like, above Berman -- that the new uniforms would have constituted introducing "too many new elements" to the film.
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Jul 13, 2016 01:42
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The people who know and love the show would think it's cool and be happy to have more options for dress up at the conventions and the people who don't wouldn't care.
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Jul 13, 2016 01:54
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By the way, Nana Visitor in Cardassian makeup? Still would.
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Jul 13, 2016 01:57
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Rhyno posted:By the way, Nana Visitor in Cardassian makeup? 
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Jul 13, 2016 02:24
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FlamingLiberal posted:I'm disappointed they scrapped those...it seems to combine the TOS movie uniforms of ST2-6 and the TNG unis. Maybe someone decided they were too reminiscent of the TNG dress uniform, what with the rank pips way out on the front of the shoulder. At least they seem to have actual pants, though. The dress uniforms always looked kind of ridiculous from the waist down, which led directly to decades of unfunny "dress" puns. 
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Jul 13, 2016 03:14
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Someone took "dress uniform" a little too seriously.
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Jul 13, 2016 03:21
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He said
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Jul 13, 2016 03:22
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Rhyno posted:Someone took "dress uniform" a little too seriously. 
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