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Toshimo posted:Combo decks > Decks with non-creature wincons > General-based decks > Decks that turn dudes sideways. I'm sure you're right. I didn't know if there was a big payoff to aim for in the deck beyond dropping dudes and lords. I need something other than Teeg for variety and wanted to go towards B/U so that there's no overlap with my Teeg deck. My friends' decks can be somewhat competitive so I need to be able to keep up. Is there any sort of control/combo deck to be built in B/U? Also, how does Hanna pillow fort deck do against non budget decks?
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Jul 5, 2016 20:38
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Fingers McLongDong posted:I'm sure you're right. I didn't know if there was a big payoff to aim for in the deck beyond dropping dudes and lords. I need something other than Teeg for variety and wanted to go towards B/U so that there's no overlap with my Teeg deck. My friends' decks can be somewhat competitive so I need to be able to keep up. Is there any sort of control/combo deck to be built in B/U? IIRC there's not a lot of good Dimir commanders, but I think Oona can be pretty sick. Alternatively, there's some good commanders in Grixis and Esper, and the white cards in Esper are unlikely to overlap much. Mono-U and mono-B also have several pretty strong options.
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Jul 5, 2016 20:45
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Fingers McLongDong posted:I'm sure you're right. I didn't know if there was a big payoff to aim for in the deck beyond dropping dudes and lords. I need something other than Teeg for variety and wanted to go towards B/U so that there's no overlap with my Teeg deck. My friends' decks can be somewhat competitive so I need to be able to keep up. Is there any sort of control/combo deck to be built in B/U? UB generals worth noting are:
Otherwise, you are just sort of building a UB or Artifact based combo deck and your general is irrelevant. There's plenty of combos to go around (Palinchron, Storm, Stations, whatever). You just push the things that each color does well (tutors/draw/removal for black, draw/bounce/counters for blue). Also, never pillow fort. Build a deck that wins and play more games.
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Jul 5, 2016 20:49
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hoobajoo posted:IIRC there's not a lot of good Dimir commanders, but I think Oona can be pretty sick. Alternatively, there's some good commanders in Grixis and Esper, and the white cards in Esper are unlikely to overlap much. Mono-U and mono-B also have several pretty strong options. I was looking at mono blue options too. I'd prefer to keep this deck either 1 or 2 colors if I can. Is Jace VP a good commander? Is wizard tribal with Azami worth trying? I'm a bit out of touch with the blue options and wincons for commander. My playgroup is usually my friends that have somewhat competitive decks and other locals that I don't care about making mad with combos.
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Jul 5, 2016 20:55
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Fingers McLongDong posted:Anyone have experience with zombie edh decks? Gisa and Geralf seem like a fun commander for zombie tribal, but I don't know if the deck itself is any good. I have a pile of cards I was eventually going to turn into a Ghoulcaller Gisa deck, I can list some of the more interesting cards when I get home tonight. The basic idea was monoblack control that finished by making a ton of zombie tokens; MBC and tokens are both done better elsewhere in the format but it seemed like a fun idea at the time.
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Jul 5, 2016 20:56
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Fingers McLongDong posted:I was looking at mono blue options too. I'd prefer to keep this deck either 1 or 2 colors if I can. Azami is really powerful, and can combo out easily. Teferi is good commander for a very traditional mono-U control/value deck, and Talrand has a sweet aggro-control gameplan. Not sure about Jace, but I feel like the above commanders are probably stronger commanders for whatever your game plan is. As for wincons, common ones include high tide-based combos, Cyclonic Rift and/or Sunder, or assorted infinites involving Deadeye Navigator. Consecrated Sphinx isn't technically a wincon, but it may as well be, card is bananas.
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Jul 5, 2016 22:01
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Fingers McLongDong posted:I was looking at mono blue options too. I'd prefer to keep this deck either 1 or 2 colors if I can. Monoblue has several good generals, including Talrand, Arcanus and Azami. The trouble is, in multiplayer, people see a monoblue deck and assume you're a counter monkey, and gang up on you because no one likes counter monkeys, especially combo players. (Then once you're gone, the combo player wins).
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Jul 5, 2016 22:24
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The mono-blue countermonkey is also always a combo player though, just with a ton of protection, so hitting them first is totally legit.
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Jul 5, 2016 22:27
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Mono-U is both the counter monkey and the combo player. Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and Teferi, Temporal Archmage are all-in on that. But that's just vindicating people ganging up on you.
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Jul 5, 2016 22:30
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Fingers McLongDong posted:I was looking at mono blue options too. I'd prefer to keep this deck either 1 or 2 colors if I can. Teferi, Temporal Archmage and Azami are both really strong commanders. Teferi will generally play as some sort of prison deck that eventually goes infinite with chain veil, and Azami can be pretty much prison/combo or some hybrid depending (I run her with lab maniac as the kill). Talrand is pretty good in French commander but suffers with multiple people because his cantrip-into-dudes strategy isn't nearly as effective. Also one thing to try to remember when playing mono-U is don't be the countermonkey because that's a losing proposition in multi. Save counters for things that either a) protect your position or b) cause you to lose immediately.
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Jul 5, 2016 22:38
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alansmithee posted:Teferi, Temporal Archmage and Azami are both really strong commanders. Teferi will generally play as some sort of prison deck that eventually goes infinite with chain veil, and Azami can be pretty much prison/combo or some hybrid depending (I run her with lab maniac as the kill). Talrand is pretty good in French commander but suffers with multiple people because his cantrip-into-dudes strategy isn't nearly as effective. I've had a lot of success with Talrand in multiplayer by shifting the deck to have less cheap cantrips and more big card draw to stop you running out of steam, plus running Proteus Staff into big dudes as an alternate wincon. And yeah, counterspells lose a lot of oomph, so you have to be pretty judicious in how you use them. He's honestly probably worse than Azami or Teferi in an absolute sense, but he's very viable and has a pretty unique playstyle in Commander, and is super fun. edit: one really neat thing about Talrand is he almost never looks like the leader on board, since he has so few permanents. A ton of power stays hidden in your hand, and no one knows whether you are durdling making a few drakes while you try to draw something, or if you have Cyclonic Rift into Coat of Arms to win in a single turn. hoobajoo fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Jul 6, 2016 |
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Jul 6, 2016 02:51
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Ah neat, thanks for the discussion everyone. I *think* I'm going to try Oona, I like the idea of the commander itself being a wincon and having more card options. I'm assuming I need to get some infinite mana combos in there to pair with Oona, along with BSZ and stroke of genius as other combo kills. I'll look up some Oona lists later.
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Jul 6, 2016 06:34
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Fingers McLongDong posted:Ah neat, thanks for the discussion everyone. I *think* I'm going to try Oona, I like the idea of the commander itself being a wincon and having more card options. I'm assuming I need to get some infinite mana combos in there to pair with Oona, along with BSZ and stroke of genius as other combo kills. I'll look up some Oona lists later. Cabal Coffers + Rings of Brighthearth + Deserted Temple (with enough black mana or Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth) Rings of Brighthearth + Basalt Monolith Palinchron/Peregrine Drake + Dead-Eye Navigator Grand Architect + Pili Pala These are the infinite mana combos I've used before in Oona. Grand Architect and Pili Pala are probably the least reliable because you need to wait a turn to use Pili Pala or have Boots/Greaves. Unless someone stops activated abilities or calls Oona with a Pithing Needle, there isn't a reason to have an alternate win condition, except possibly Exsanguinate which can be used as back up life gain.
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Jul 6, 2016 07:10
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Oraculum Animi posted:Cabal Coffers + Rings of Brighthearth + Deserted Temple (with enough black mana or Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth) I forgot about cabal coffers but remembered the rest. Is pila pala/architect combo worth using just for access to the combo? I was also thinking of palinchron/drake and caged sun on blue. The only other wincon I had in mind was including lab maniac in case I can't target people with Oona for whatever reason.
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Jul 6, 2016 07:25
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Fingers McLongDong posted:I forgot about cabal coffers but remembered the rest. Is pila pala/architect combo worth using just for access to the combo? I was also thinking of palinchron/drake and caged sun on blue. The only other wincon I had in mind was including lab maniac in case I can't target people with Oona for whatever reason. If someone has Leyline of Sanctity or whatever and you're comboing off, it shouldn't add too much difficulty to fit in a Cyclonic Rift or similar bounce effect. Those effects are pretty uncommonly played in Commander, I wouldn't put in a card that does nothing else to get around it unless you want to throw in Doomsday as extra spice.
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Jul 6, 2016 07:34
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Fingers McLongDong posted:I forgot about cabal coffers but remembered the rest. Is pila pala/architect combo worth using just for access to the combo? I was also thinking of palinchron/drake and caged sun on blue. The only other wincon I had in mind was including lab maniac in case I can't target people with Oona for whatever reason. I leaned more towards black when I made my deck so I would do Caged Sun on black with Crypt Ghast and Nirkana Revenant. I never tried Lab Maniac.
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Jul 6, 2016 07:36
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hoobajoo posted:If someone has Leyline of Sanctity or whatever and you're comboing off, it shouldn't add too much difficulty to fit in a Cyclonic Rift or similar bounce effect. Those effects are pretty uncommonly played in Commander, I wouldn't put in a card that does nothing else to get around it unless you want to throw in Doomsday as extra spice. You could be right, I was thinking that if someone put a needle on Oona or had a Linvala out, whatever, that I could drop maniac and then BSZ/stroke myself into a game win. Also can you play crypt ghast in Oona? I thought the extort having a w/b hybrid cost in the text meant you had to have a commander in those colors.
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Jul 6, 2016 07:41
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Fingers McLongDong posted:You could be right, I was thinking that if someone put a needle on Oona or had a Linvala out, whatever, that I could drop maniac and then BSZ/stroke myself into a game win. It's reminder text so it's not part of the color identity. 93.4b.
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Jul 6, 2016 07:44
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Oraculum Animi posted:It's reminder text so it's not part of the color identity. 93.4b. Oh cool, thanks. I'll probably add those too then, works nice with Urborg. Big mana is the next best thing to infinite mana I guess. Any other essentials you'd recommend? I was going to add a good bit of permission and card draw, and a few things like Acquire since I know the rings/Monolith combo is super common around here.
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Jul 6, 2016 07:48
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Fingers McLongDong posted:You could be right, I was thinking that if someone put a needle on Oona or had a Linvala out, whatever, that I could drop maniac and then BSZ/stroke myself into a game win. Yeah, the thing is if you can draw your whole library, you should be able to answer the problem card directly. And yes, the only thing on the card per the capital-r Rules is "Extort", so technically you can have Extort in decks that lack white or black in their identity. If there was somehow an artifact with Extort, any Commander deck could play it! Fingers McLongDong posted:Oh cool, thanks. I'll probably add those too then, works nice with Urborg. Big mana is the next best thing to infinite mana I guess. Any other essentials you'd recommend? I was going to add a good bit of permission and card draw, and a few things like Acquire since I know the rings/Monolith combo is super common around here. In terms of generally good cards that sometimes get overlooked, Glen Elendra Archmage is stupid good, and Toxic Deluge is probably the best creature sweeper in the format. hoobajoo fucked around with this message at 08:00 on Jul 6, 2016 |
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Jul 6, 2016 07:52
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regarding infinite mana in oona or azami, power artifact is pretty good because it combos with good-on-their-own rocks (grim monolith, basalt monolith) and you go infinite as soon as you drop the power artifact. I've found pili-pala to be pretty bad because you have to untap with it and everyone knows it's a combo piece. the monoliths show up in a lot of decks without power artifact, and aren't terrible on their own (unlike both pieces of the pili pala combo).
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Jul 6, 2016 16:37
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They're not infinite mana, but remember phyrexian and ashnods altar to grind the incidental fairies into more mana for activations. Stole ashnods altar from an oona player once with my  deck just for personal mana and sacrifice outlets, then later I realized the combo, copied their Oona, and we had Mill Wars
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Jul 6, 2016 23:14
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I'm looking to build a casual commander deck around Slivers or Nicol Bolas, leaning towards the ED. I favor creatures vs spells, thus the Slivers idea. Is NB a solid commander for this type of deck?
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Jul 8, 2016 22:24
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Nystral posted:I'm looking to build a casual commander deck around Slivers or Nicol Bolas, leaning towards the ED. I favor creatures vs spells, thus the Slivers idea. Is NB a solid commander for this type of deck? Slivers are fun as hell to play but be warned, an effective mana base could be expensive and Slivers see a ton of hate in multi player.
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Jul 8, 2016 23:51
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Nystral posted:I'm looking to build a casual commander deck around Slivers or Nicol Bolas, leaning towards the ED. I favor creatures vs spells, thus the Slivers idea. Is NB a solid commander for this type of deck? Be careful about using Sliver Overlord as a commander. If someone steals or clones it, they can steal all your other slivers.
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Jul 9, 2016 00:48
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Nystral posted:I'm looking to build a casual commander deck around Slivers or Nicol Bolas, leaning towards the ED. I favor creatures vs spells, thus the Slivers idea. Is NB a solid commander for this type of deck? I use this Hivelord deck when I just want to turn bugs sideways. It's mostly a Voltron thing. Ever since the tuck change I've swapped out what few tuck cards there were for destroy creatures board wipes.
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Jul 9, 2016 00:53
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Continuing my trend of being terrible to the other players in my playground I've put together my 4th Commander deck. I now have all the colors covered with my super cheap Zada, Hedron Grinder deck. This thing is the aggro deck that can go off over and over again it's pretty crazy. And turn 4-5 wins happen a lot too! I'm really happy with it.
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Jul 13, 2016 07:19
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Balon posted:Continuing my trend of being terrible to the other players in my playground I've put together my 4th Commander deck. I now have all the colors covered with my super cheap Zada, Hedron Grinder deck. I am trying to put together a Hedron Grinder deck but I don't have nearly enough (red) spells that I would want to cast on him. I had plenty of goblins, but decided to pick up a speed vs cunning for the Krenko, but now I feel like I am a lot better off just replacing Zada with Krenko.
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Jul 13, 2016 07:50
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well, I finally built Derevi. As broken as possible, of course. Winter orb, Hokori, and even ponied up for an Intuition and Survival of the Fittest as I didn't own them. Time to bust it out at my weekly "casual" game 
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Jul 13, 2016 16:39
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Tim Raines IRL posted:well, I finally built Derevi. As broken as possible, of course. Winter orb, Hokori, and even ponied up for an Intuition and Survival of the Fittest as I didn't own them. Make sure you put a Steel Golem in your Derevi deck. It's not good or anything. It's just so you can  dropping your commander with it in play.
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Jul 13, 2016 16:46
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say no to scurvy posted:I am trying to put together a Hedron Grinder deck but I don't have nearly enough (red) spells that I would want to cast on him. I had plenty of goblins, but decided to pick up a speed vs cunning for the Krenko, but now I feel like I am a lot better off just replacing Zada with Krenko. Do you like drawing a card for each creature you control for one red mana? Zada is your goblin. Krenko is your commander if you just want to win with sheer numbers. Zada is the commander you want to play if you want to win with 5 dudes and 40-0 a guy in a single turn.
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Jul 13, 2016 18:38
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Balon posted:Do you like drawing a card for each creature you control for one red mana? Zada is your goblin. I want Zada to work, but how many spells do I need to make him viable? Currently I have: Expedite and Accelerate, fourteen pump spells, Chandra's Ignition, but then uh, Spark Jolt? Traitorous Instinct? At that point I am surely better off with Rites of Initiation or Trumpet Blast, I figure. Edit:It looks like if I do Chignite, most of the gobbos will be too roasted explode themselves. say no to scurvy fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Jul 13, 2016 |
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Jul 13, 2016 19:57
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Crimson Wisps
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Jul 13, 2016 20:03
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You're thinking too small. Into the Fray or Strange Inversion spliced onto Path of Anger's Flame.
Fajita Queen fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Jul 13, 2016 |
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Jul 13, 2016 20:14
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say no to scurvy posted:I want Zada to work, but how many spells do I need to make him viable? In the admittedly outdated list I have on tappedout, I have 22 instants and 17 sorceries. As it currently is, I believe that number is higher after adding in more token creating spells and Battle Hymn type effects. For the most part I find that since you're relying on a very glass cannon approach, you want to be able to reliably have 4+ goblins in play in the first few turns, drop Zada, and then rely on the sheer number of mana and card drawing spells to snowball to a quick victory. If you're making a choice between something that does either of those and your buffs, cut the buff. With the number of cards you will draw off of Crimson Wisp type effects, the limiting factor is your mana available, and at a certain point when your 20 guys are all double strike and trample, being able to bump them from 20's to 30's isn't really a concern.
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Jul 13, 2016 20:29
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I think you want your finishers to be something like Downhill Charge or Blazing Shoal with a bunch of rituals, cantrips and creature tokens so you draw out your deck and then free spell your way to victory. I think there's also a red pump spell with convoke. Heat Shimmer, Twinflame,
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Jul 13, 2016 21:42
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Desperate Ritual spliced onto something that targets Zada is also really, really good.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:49
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say no to scurvy posted:I want Zada to work, but how many spells do I need to make him viable? Chignition is a great finisher. All the copies go on to the stack and nuke your opponents and their creatures. You obv dont do it if it hurts your board more. I'm running 25 or so spells that target, 6 or so are cantrips. You can do some big mana stuff too and just combo out hard to win. It's a token deck that overruns for R or 1R or even for free with a fre options. I've come out of nowhere to draw 7 or 8 cards, make 15 mana, and turn my whole board in to giant monsters. It's difficult to fail with this pile.
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Jul 13, 2016 23:10
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Balon posted:Chignition is a great finisher. All the copies go on to the stack and nuke your opponents and their creatures. You obv dont do it if it hurts your board more. You'll only get maybe 5 damage off that.
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Jul 14, 2016 00:18
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Toshimo posted:You'll only get maybe 5 damage off that. Maybe if you do it without pumping your guys first. The whole point is to pump your guys though so...
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Jul 14, 2016 01:43
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