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Haaha like imagine that you're some idiot 20 year old kid with a rifle just doing your stint and you get told ok we're doing this exercise so you have to guard this plaza or wherever and suddenly you're the bad guy in a coup and thousands of your own countrymen charge the tank you're in and it's not like you want to shoot or kill anybody so you just hand over your rifle and try to go "I didn't know" and some swarthy rear end turk with a big moustache sabers you.
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Jul 16, 2016 18:40
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Frosted Flake posted:Killing or capturing Edro should have been the kick-off, not an afterthought. Well, the coup supposedly did bomb the resort he was staying at, or at least that's the claim.
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Jul 16, 2016 18:41
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Minimalist Program posted:Most of the actual soldier dudes who got killed and caught were just idiot teenagers and young boys who were told they were supposed to be taking part in a military drill i was wondering how the hell you get grunts to help with this mean trick
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Jul 16, 2016 18:41
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Like imagine you're a a 19 year old somewhat stupid ordinary dude just working a summer job at like a Denny's or something and your day manager gives you some stupid order like "stack all these boxes in the parking lot" and you go "huh I don't understand why I have to do that but ok it's my rear end if I don't" so you go out there and stack boxes in the middle of the night and lol surprise motherfucker now you're a traitor to the country and getting stabbed, thrown in jail and put to death.
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Jul 16, 2016 18:43
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"no Moridin, the army would mow down civilians without hesitation you're a retard if you think civilians can fight drones and tanks. Soldiers are killing automatons!"
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Jul 16, 2016 18:43
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FuhrerHat posted:i was wondering how the hell you get grunts to help with this Most of the pictures of civilians kickign the poo poo out of and murdering the soldiers, the guys they're dragging off are super wide eyed looking scared teens who obviously have no idea what the gently caress is going on.
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Jul 16, 2016 18:44
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Moridin920 posted:"no Moridin, the army would mow down civilians without hesitation you're a retard if you think civilians can fight drones and tanks. Soldiers are killing automatons!" Congratulations Moridin
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Jul 16, 2016 18:44
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Athropos posted:Why in the gently caress would you surrender to an islamic mob when you are presumedly armed? Just fight it out to the end, or dont start a loving coup. They didn't know they were starting a coup. These are 18/19 year old conscripts who thought they were doing some counterterrorism operation only to find out that they are hosed.
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Jul 16, 2016 18:45
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Kainser posted:They didn't know they were starting a coup. These are 18/19 year old conscripts who thought they were doing some counterterrorism operation only to find out that they are hosed. Yeah, this. It's a pretty horrible thing.
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Jul 16, 2016 18:46
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I'd be so sad if Erdogan was shot in the face tonight NOT!!!!
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Jul 16, 2016 18:46
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Minimalist Program posted:Yeah, this. It's a pretty horrible thing. thats ok in a few years the armyman-ian genocide will have never happend
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Jul 16, 2016 18:48
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Moridin920 posted:"no Moridin, the army would mow down civilians without hesitation you're a retard if you think civilians can fight drones and tanks. Soldiers are killing automatons!" it's pronounced morondin
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Jul 16, 2016 18:48
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Moridin920 posted:"no Moridin, the army would mow down civilians without hesitation you're a retard if you think civilians can fight drones and tanks. Soldiers are killing automatons!" I'm glad you and Erdogan are happy about the way this turned out.
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Jul 16, 2016 18:49
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The best case scenario is for Erdogan to be defeated in an election, but I guess that's not possible since he has rigged the system and the media (like Putin).
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Jul 16, 2016 18:53
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FuhrerHat posted:i was wondering how the hell you get grunts to help with this It's not like whenever a coup happens the ordinary hierarchical power structures of the military all suddenly dissolve and the army turns into an armed mass of politically motivated individuals who all share the same common goal and ambitions of overthrowing the government and all just happen to act and cooperate perfectly compared to other unorganized masses. In a strong military you don't have to "get grunts" to help with this stuff, because you just tell them to do stuff and they follow orders because that's the point of it. It's not like a military coup is every single grunt and gunner getting together in a big airplane hanger for a mass meeting and shouting "WHAT DO WE WANT? TO SEIZE POWER AND COUP THE COUNTRY" and waving their guns in the air and cheering and then they all run out and man the tanks and choppers and take the streets. Military coups only work when the military is organized and strict enough that a group of 10-15 top brass dudes can get together in a room, decide to start poo poo, and then pass their orders downwards and have them executed via ordinary military hierarchical structures and power paths. It's a bunch of 18-25 year old consicripts suddenly getting told to "go shut down this bridge" and just following orders; and the orders were given to them by a bunch of 25-30 year old sergeants who got the orders from their superiors and are just acting on them, etc. etc.
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Jul 16, 2016 18:55
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Komet posted:The best case scenario is for Erdogan to be defeated in an election, but I guess that's not possible since he has rigged the system and the media (like Putin). Also the small detail that the majority of the country supports him and wants him as prez sooo
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Jul 16, 2016 18:57
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Athropos posted:Why in the gently caress would you surrender to an islamic mob when you are presumedly armed? Just fight it out to the end, or dont start a loving coup. This is like the one question I would like to ask someone who was in the Iraqi/Syrian army circa. 2013. I knew Russia and Turkey didn't get along and has fought each other, but boy was I unprepared for the extent of this. So wikipedia tells me Russia and Turkey has been at war 12 times in the last 500 years, 10 times in the last 300 years. From 1768 to 1918 they basically fought once every generation.
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Jul 16, 2016 18:57
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Hope they learned their lesson... you gotta take Erdogan out as the first step
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Jul 16, 2016 18:58
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Moridin920 posted:"no Moridin, the army would mow down civilians without hesitation you're a retard if you think civilians can fight drones and tanks. Soldiers are killing automatons!" if someone attacks you, you have the right to attack them
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Jul 16, 2016 18:58
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Moridin920 posted:"no Moridin, the army would mow down civilians without hesitation you're a retard if you think civilians can fight drones and tanks. Soldiers are killing automatons!" I think if they were actually told that they were couping it up they might have actually shot more people as opposed to being surprised by flash mobs and confusedly geting out of their tanks to see what the hell was up
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Jul 16, 2016 18:58
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Aesop Poprock posted:Didn't the army kill even mure Kurds than the Islamists and hasn't really ever shown itself to be less brutal or crazy than them There was basically a coup in the 1990s because of the threat of a ceasefire that would have made them irrelevant.
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Jul 16, 2016 19:00
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this is a good segue into the rnc
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Jul 16, 2016 19:05
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Minimalist Program posted:It's not like whenever a coup happens the ordinary hierarchical power structures of the military all suddenly dissolve and the army turns into an armed mass of politically motivated individuals who all share the same common goal and ambitions of overthrowing the government and all just happen to act and cooperate perfectly compared to other unorganized masses. In a strong military you don't have to "get grunts" to help with this stuff, because you just tell them to do stuff and they follow orders because that's the point of it. Supposedly, the big coup leader was a former Air Force general, which explains why they had air support while their ground game was lacking. I'm guessing that they thought they could do all of this with air power and just seize key buildings with a few men, with all the explosions and curfew keeping everyone away. They probably had only few battalions worth soldiers at their command. Aesop Poprock posted:I think if they were actually told that they were couping it up they might have actually shot more people as opposed to being surprised by flash mobs and confusedly geting out of their tanks to see what the hell was up They did get learn about what they were there for when they got into position, usually by radio traffic and citizens. That's why most of them surrendered.
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Jul 16, 2016 19:05
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im all the dudes on cnn just waving that turkish flag super hard for my awesome not third world country
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Jul 16, 2016 19:07
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just like the one-winged dove, sing a song, sounds like she's singin' COUP baby COUP now coooooouuuup
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Jul 16, 2016 19:07
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It was cool that for a few years social media was a crucial tool for widespread protest but nowadays governments can just be like "shut it down" and it is so
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Jul 16, 2016 19:09
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Young Freud posted:Supposedly, the big coup leader was a former Air Force general, which explains why they had air support while their ground game was lacking. I'm guessing that they thought they could do all of this with air power and just seize key buildings with a few men, with all the explosions and curfew keeping everyone away. They probably had only few battalions worth soldiers at their command.
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Jul 16, 2016 19:09
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Kainser posted:They didn't know they were starting a coup. These are 18/19 year old conscripts who thought they were doing some counterterrorism operation only to find out that they are hosed. That's horrible 
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Jul 16, 2016 19:10
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I can't believe these plotters would tell a fib.
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Jul 16, 2016 19:10
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Minimalist Program posted:Most of the actual soldier dudes who got killed and caught were just idiot teenagers and young boys who were told they were supposed to be taking part in a military drill So your average soldier
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Jul 16, 2016 19:11
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When was the last coup in a relatively not bad country?
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Jul 16, 2016 19:12
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jBrereton posted:If only they had asked a historian who could've told them about how air power never, ever, makes civilians come 'round to your side. The coup leaders didn't have much of a choice. Apparently Erdogan was going to drop the hammer on them this weekend and it turned into a "do or die" moment. rear end cobra posted:When was the last coup in a relatively not bad country? South Korea. That was '79-'80. They were a military dictatorship until about 1988.
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Jul 16, 2016 19:13
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rear end cobra posted:When was the last coup in a relatively not bad country?
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Jul 16, 2016 19:14
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Air power makes it easier to kill, too. A soldier who's looking at a person in the eyes might hesitate but a helicopter or F-16 provides distance. Don't really know what it looked like on the ground, but it appeared the gunships did a lot of damage.
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Jul 16, 2016 19:14
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gnarlyhotep posted:You left out the word "idiot" between "adult" and "so" I'm an adult, idiot, so I'm watching my tv
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Jul 16, 2016 19:14
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It was a trick question, all countries are bad lmao
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Jul 16, 2016 19:14
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Young Freud posted:The coup leaders didn't have much of a choice. Apparently Erdogan was going to drop the hammer on them this weekend and it turned into a "do or die" moment.
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Jul 16, 2016 19:15
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jBrereton posted:May '58 in France? If youve had Charles DeGaulle in charge youre a bad country imo. gently caress him and gently caress that lovely rear end airport
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Jul 16, 2016 19:17
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jBrereton posted:South Korea was really a military dictatorship right up until 1988, from Rhee onwards it was all about military power until very recently; the Korean war kicked off due to pointless border artillery slinging from the South as well as the North. Lmao is this what theyre teaching in school these days? Best Korea do nothing wrong! South Korea attack first! Defensive invasion with massed armor donated by soviet union! Completely justified!
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Jul 16, 2016 19:22
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jBrereton posted:South Korea was really a military dictatorship right up until 1988, from Rhee onwards it was all about military power until very recently. Yeah I once read an article about the fate of a bunch Japanese citizens of Korean descent who voluntarily returned to the DPRK in the 1970s. Back then a lot of these guys were well-educated and liberal minded, and thought "Sure DPRK is a socialist country, but at least it's not a murderous, fascist military junta". Boy did the vast majority of them end up in a world of pain a few years later.
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Jul 16, 2016 19:25
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