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Only Apollo knows
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Jul 24, 2016 04:39
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Wow, lotta hate ITT! I was checked out the last couple days til I could see the movie tomorrow so as to be able to read the black bar stuff, but of course after seeing the Discover teaser I had to jump back in! First thoughts--YAY IT'S IN THE PRIME UNIVERSE! Second thoughts--gently caress, IT LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER PREQUEL!  Third thoughts--It's not an Enterprise? LAME Fourth thoughts--HOLY loving poo poo THEY USED THE MCQUARRIE DESIGN?!?!DJFIOAJASOFJAD23R08R9FJCME3229345 Well I'll admit I've never been a fan of the McQuarrieprise, and I'm sure as poo poo not sure where it fits in between NX-01, Franklin, Daedelus, and Kelvin, but you know what, I gotta give 'em credit for sheer loving balls. I mean, they knew it was gonna be controversial. But at least it's not another increasingly flat post TNG ship, or a copy of something else (I'm looking at you NX-01 Akiraprise. I was salty about that for-loving-EVER). It definitely shows they are not afraid to try something different with the show, which is a good sign. I think it'll grow on me, especially once we see the larger universe and where it fits in, what the rest of the Federation and Starfleet look like, the uniforms, and how they all fit in with established history. Also I'll give it this, it looks like a loving monster when it comes to power--is that like 3 warp nacelle pods banded together in each nacelle? 
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Jul 24, 2016 05:12
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eth0.n posted:My guess: the Discovery is a Federation-Klingon joint venture, and much of the show will focus on how two fundamentally different cultures and ideologies can cooperate and understand one another. That would fit in with the "multiple crews" announcement.
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Jul 24, 2016 05:17
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The McQuarrie Enterprise was always the worst looking Enterprise and I can't believe they decided to use it. That said, the ship did actually appear in the Search for Spock and Unification pt. 1... http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_Planet_of_the_Titans
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Jul 24, 2016 05:28
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Just saw the trailer. I thought the ship design was the only problem with Discovery. The fact it looks like a loving 90s fan project, however, shocked me. That CGI was poo poo. I don't care if it's not finished, who the gently caress releases footage that poo poo?!
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Jul 24, 2016 06:10
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Timby posted:Jesus, that's an ugly ship. Looks like they drew inspiration from Ralph McQuarrie's rejected design from Planet of the Titans. Everyone else can gently caress off. Big Mean Jerk posted:We should be getting All Access casting info from SDCC this weekend, right? Fuller tweeted a pic of the new (unupholstered) captain's chair a few days ago. BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Jul 24, 2016 |
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Jul 24, 2016 06:18
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I don't even mind the shape, that's fine, the colors and greebles are just ugly as hell.
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Jul 24, 2016 06:30
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Honestly the ship doesn't look THAT awful. It is pretty bad though, but if their intent was to just make McQuarrie's design look slightly better while preserving most of its key points, they did that well. That CGI is awful though... honestly, they couldn't have at least gotten Tobias Richter to do it? The music is totally unfitting for a ship called "Discovery". The Federation/Klingon hybrid idea is interesting enough I guess, especially since at the end we get the decloaking sound effect as the title comes up on the screen. While I really hope it's not set in the time between TOS and TNG, the deflector design at least looks like it very well could be... it's basically an Excelsior deflector. But yeah though, echoing everyone others have said about how Star Trek Beyond got me really hype for new Trek, only to have that hype thoroughly deflated by CBS's really poo poo announcement. While Paramount and the movie staff are going to be breathing new life into the franchise, CBS is going to be making the exact same mistakes it made with Voyager and Enterprise and delivering something that is mediocre at best. And on a lovely streaming platform to boot.
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Jul 24, 2016 07:17
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Just saw Beyond and I really enjoyed it. I wish the villain was fleshed out more, as others have mentioned. His motivation as presented was a little weak but if you dig a little deeper there are some interesting ideas. There's that scene when Krall says "I know your kind", suggesting that he is not of the same kind as Uhura, and I'm not talking about how he's been sucking up alien DNA/life energy into himself. He wasn't necessarily driven mad by that process, because when we watch his final log as Captain of the Franklin, he already had revenge on his mind. I think his alien appearance, aside from serving to mask his identity until the end, was also kind of a visual metaphor. The Federation is monolithic entity where the concept of being an alien doesn't exist, because well, everyone is an alien to someone else; you can't not be an alien. Thus, Krall is alien on the basis of his ideology, not physiology. Krall's idea that bringing all species together is a bad thing is kind of a hard sell. On the face of it, it isn't really something any reasonable person would agree with. Krall talks about being born into a world where you had to struggle to survive. I think they needed to push that angle harder. When he was born, Earth wasn't a post scarcity utopia. Life was still something you had to work, struggle, and make sacrifices for. But post-Federation, everyone lives a cushy, peaceful life. Nobody has to fight for anything, and that's not the kind of world he fought two wars for. And that's a more relatable motivation, I think. While the movie doesn't need to spell out everything for the viewer, I think they could have benefited from being just a bit more explicit Drink-Mix Man posted:So it's coming out a lot of people think Krall was slightly underwritten (a minor critique in an otherwise pretty awesome movie IMO), but nonetheless I feel the need to ask if there is something I'm missing with his motivation. So he's an ex-soldier who resents the Federation for abandoning him and just wants to commit genocide for non-specific revenge? Is that all? Was there more of an agenda or a point to prove? He resents the Federation and wants to destroy Yorktown because it's kind of a microcosm of the Federation. I don't think he was going for genocide, I don't recall it being stated that he wanted to go on an all out galactic rampage. Subyng fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Jul 24, 2016 |
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Jul 24, 2016 07:22
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The trailer CG is almost certainly incomplete. You'd absolutely expect it to look like bad CG five months out.
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Jul 24, 2016 07:29
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So to change gears a little bit, has there ever been an in universe write up on all the changes made to the Enterprise during the refit?
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Jul 24, 2016 08:14
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More Beyond chat: I'm amazed at how much sense the Franklin cliffdive scene made. It's not an atmospheric craft, so it needs to go really really fast to generate enough lift to fly, but in order to gain enough speed, it need a to be flying in the first place. Solution: let gravity do the work. Dive to gain speed and pull up. This is what actual planes do when they stall!
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Jul 24, 2016 08:25
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I was surprisingly unbothered by the Discovery reveal. Having seen a shitload of godawful TOS-era fan designs pop up on Pinterest lately, literally Connie saucer-engineering-nacelles slapped together in different configurations, seeing something different makes a nice change.
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Jul 24, 2016 09:26
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MikeJF posted:The trailer CG is almost certainly incomplete. You'd absolutely expect it to look like bad CG five months out. People keep saying that but when you release promo material to show off an announcement and you half-rear end the CGI saying "Oh it's not ready for 5 months" you are a loving idiot and it bodes very, very badly for how it'll be handled. If you're releasing a 60 second long trailer to announce "OUR MAJOR IP IS BACK" you make sure to polish that poo poo until it shines. You didn't see the Force Awakens teaser throwing untextured X-Wings in your face, after all.
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Jul 24, 2016 09:49
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Don't see how this can be anything but a pre-TOS series from the registry. I wonder if Fuller has gone on record about his thoughts on Enterprise? "Discovery" being the theme for the show, his quotes about getting back to TOS 'fun', but they'll still have the issue with how do we do exploration in a smaller setting than existed? Are we finally answering the question about what first contact with the Bolians was like? Also saw Beyond but one thing that bugged me a bit was the near-total lack of established Trek races as background characters. Apart from Vulcans, seems like the Federation now is entirely composed of humans + aliens with weird skin diseases.
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Jul 24, 2016 09:55
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Subyng posted:More Beyond chat: I'm amazed at how much sense the Franklin cliffdive scene made. It's not an atmospheric craft, so it needs to go really really fast to generate enough lift to fly, but in order to gain enough speed, it need a to be flying in the first place. Solution: let gravity do the work. Dive to gain speed and pull up. This is what actual planes do when they stall! It would have to be designed to generate lift at all for that to make sense, which it wasn't.
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Jul 24, 2016 10:09
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Rhyno posted:So to change gears a little bit, has there ever been an in universe write up on all the changes made to the Enterprise during the refit? Like the fact that the A finally has the nacelle struts at the right angle?
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Jul 24, 2016 10:35
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CBS must really love Star Trek Bridge Commander to shoot the entire show in it with fraps.
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Jul 24, 2016 10:37
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theperminator posted:It would have to be designed to generate lift at all for that to make sense, which it wasn't. One could make the argument that it was a utilization of potential energy, and not "lift" as in using atmospheric density to create a wave of pressure. I mean, if someone was looking for excuses.
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Jul 24, 2016 10:43
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I went in with poo poo-level expectations from Into Darkness, and Beyond hurdled right over them and then some. (1) Not afraid to have a little fun and struck just the right tone between gravitas and whimsy. It was fun without being too cotton candy about it. (2) Will probably upset the ~but my canon~ people: but we get some awesome space superstructure porn that will likely be the closest we get to a Culture Orbital on the big screen. Was really cool. (3) Maybe I'm biased having grown up with the old dudes, but it still feels like the actors are doing impersonations of performances... but they are doing them better and the chemistry is nice. (4) A few nods to neckbeard canon (from the Enterprise series, of all things) that strike the right balance between being satisfying name drops for ubernerds, but functioning fine as offhanded and unobtrusive references for the uninitiated. E: also it mostly did its own thing and told a newish story. Definitely the best of the NuTreks, and handily better than most of the TNG Trek and the bad TOS Trek films. Owlbear Camus fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Jul 24, 2016 |
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Jul 24, 2016 11:32
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Aside from what everyone else has said, the new ship looks like it's trying too hard with its architecture. The structure of this ship is way too busy; it's in love with superfluous ridges, it's overusing lights, and the rear in particular looks overdone. The overall design effect is completely inelegant, i.e., anathema to Star Trek. To say nothing of the color. The ship operates outside of both aesthetic and structural logic.
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Jul 24, 2016 13:13
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It's weird; Fuller said they were looking at race cars as inspiration.
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Jul 24, 2016 13:16
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Racecars my rear end. It is very obviously McQuarrie's Star Destroyer Enterprise with slight modification.
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Jul 24, 2016 13:19
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It's pretty obvious that STD will be set just after STI.
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Jul 24, 2016 13:21
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Woden posted:It's pretty obvious that STD will be set just after STI. Should have raised deflectors before entering the V'Ger oriface.
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Jul 24, 2016 13:24
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My god, the Discovery is one ugly ship. It feels weird that over the past couple of years, they're revisiting all the Ralph McQuarrie concept art and utilising it. They've used a bunch of it for Star Wars: Rebels, and some in The Force Awakens and Rogue One. Now Star Trek is using this discarded concept style? It was discarded for a reason! Also, if you're a cosplayer, these are the Beyond uniform boots: http://en.trippen.com/products/racer-m
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Jul 24, 2016 14:20
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The_Doctor posted:It was discarded for a reason! People keep saying this, but it wasn't discarded, the film they were made for was never made. That's like complaining about TNG using Phase II ideas.
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Jul 24, 2016 14:24
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I'm bummed that in the new film The Enterprise A didnt take more design cues from its prime universe counterpart.
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Jul 24, 2016 14:28
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Trekkers first thought the Galaxy class was an abomination too.
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Jul 24, 2016 14:33
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Wikkheiser posted:Trekkers first thought the Galaxy class was an abomination too. Some of us never really warmed up to it that great ever. 
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Jul 24, 2016 14:34
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theperminator posted:It would have to be designed to generate lift at all for that to make sense, which it wasn't. Incorrect. Lift is just air pushing an object perpendicular to its direction of travel. Even a brick can generate lift. Subyng fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Jul 24, 2016 |
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Jul 24, 2016 14:40
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As I said, on the balance, I liked the new film. But I do have one big bugbear with it: They kind of hide it by putting it as a last act reveal, but the bad guy here is another Khan, basically. Thematically, I mean. Marooned by his compatriots in the Federation, and wants bloody revenge. It's probably the weakest part of the film and doesn't really hold up to scrutiny, and it's a testament to how well they did the visual storytelling, characterization, and chemistry that I give it a pass. I want to see Star Trek get out of the Revenge rut it's been stuck in for the past four films. Look at the motivations of the villains/foils throughout the series: (1) Returning to its "parents," reunification with its makers (2) Revenge (3) Nationalism (4) Communication (5) Finding God (6) Nationalism/Militarism/Thwarting Detente (7) Finding Nirvana (8) Assimilation (9) Eternal Youth (10) Revenge (11) Revenge (12) Revenge (13) Revenge
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Jul 24, 2016 14:42
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Can they make it look like this instead, it has a similar design ethos as the current ship but it actually looks like somebody in Starfleet designed it. http://imgur.com/a/mrkC3
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Jul 24, 2016 14:43
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Wikkheiser posted:Trekkers first thought the Galaxy class was an abomination too. It still is.
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Jul 24, 2016 14:50
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thexerox123 posted:People keep saying this, but it wasn't discarded, the film they were made for was never made. Wasn't a very similar design vaunted for TNG?
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Jul 24, 2016 14:50
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It's me. I'm the guy who actually quite likes the Discovery design.
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Jul 24, 2016 14:56
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Having the new show take place in the Prime timeline seems silly to me. We all know it'll be a reboot in practice. And there's already a reboot continuity to work with. Might as well dive in. I guess this just means even more pointless fanservicey references.
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Jul 24, 2016 15:01
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Otisburg posted:Some of us never really warmed up to it that great ever. Mister Kingdom posted:It still is.
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Jul 24, 2016 15:05
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Jesus you loving nerds, I'm frankly shocked at all the love Beyond is getting. Especially because they tried to go to warp explicitly and immediately after the goddamn deflector had been destroyed.
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Jul 24, 2016 15:09
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SuperDucky posted:Jesus you loving nerds, I'm frankly shocked at all the love Beyond is getting. Especially because they tried to go to warp explicitly and immediately after the goddamn deflector had been destroyed. Better than the alternative. Besides, given how warp drive is supposed to work, you shouldn't actually need the deflector for that purpose.
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Jul 24, 2016 15:26
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