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torgeaux posted:Close to be close is a mistake. A full wedge out is better than a half wedge for most golfers. Yeah, 10' off the green is better than 100 yards, but 100 yards is generally a more manageable distance than 60 yards, and it makes sense to set up your shot accordingly. This is dead wrong. You can look at pro golf stats or your own game. Thirty or sixty yards out you'll hit it closer to the hole than a hundred, even from the rough vs. from the fairway. If you're bad at golf you'll get fewer wild misses, you'll be on the green more often, closer to the hole, and with a lower score. If you're a pro, likewise. You might feel worse about your misses when you're closer but they're still better than where you'd be with a full wedge.
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Jul 28, 2016 04:12
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sarehu posted:This is dead wrong. You can look at pro golf stats or your own game. Thirty or sixty yards out you'll hit it closer to the hole than a hundred, even from the rough vs. from the fairway. If you're bad at golf you'll get fewer wild misses, you'll be on the green more often, closer to the hole, and with a lower score. If you're a pro, likewise. You might feel worse about your misses when you're closer but they're still better than where you'd be with a full wedge. No, I can look at my own game and see that if I play to a comfortable distance, I generally par, and bring birdie in play. If I play to just hit as close as possible, I bring bogey in play, and sometimes par. If you think Mickelson looks at that yardage book and thinks, "well, I'll just hit it as close to the green as possible," you're wrong. Approach angle, lie, and yardage are all considerations, and just closest isn't in the equation. Look at it this way: Par 5, 630 yards. I cannot reach in 2. I can hit driver/3 wood and be inside 100 yards, but also am hitting 3 wood off the deck. I can hit driver/hybrid and be at 125. It's always driver/hybrid. I'm more accurate with my wedge at 125 than I am with my lob wedge at 80, and I'm MUCH more likely to be at the right angle hitting that hybrid than the 3 wood.
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Jul 28, 2016 04:19
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Only pussies lay up  is a good way to never break 80.
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Jul 28, 2016 04:23
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That's a name I haven't heard in a while... Trevor Immelman is currently playing on the Asian Tour in Thailand.
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Jul 28, 2016 09:00
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Have any of you guys using titleist sure fit drivers/woods had a problem with the ferrule coming loose? I've got a wrench so was able to ensure that the head is actually tight but the ferrule itself seems to have come loose and won't sit back flush again there is about 2-3 cm gap between the ferrule and the point that it sits flush.
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Jul 28, 2016 09:55
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Halo14 posted:That's a name I haven't heard in a while... Trevor Immelman is currently playing on the Asian Tour in Thailand.  Dimebag posted:Have any of you guys using titleist sure fit drivers/woods had a problem with the ferrule coming loose? I've got a wrench so was able to ensure that the head is actually tight but the ferrule itself seems to have come loose and won't sit back flush again there is about 2-3 cm gap between the ferrule and the point that it sits flush. If it's really bothering you, apply some super glue to keep it there.
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Jul 28, 2016 13:32
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http://maplehillgc.com/balls/golf-ball-closeouts/6-dozen-srixon-ad333-logo-overrun-bulk-golf-balls-95347.html I'll put this here for everyone. I have a feeling whoever wins the PGA Championship thread pool thing is going to get a lot of orange duck dynasty balls now 
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Jul 28, 2016 14:34
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thebushcommander posted:http://maplehillgc.com/balls/golf-ball-closeouts/6-dozen-srixon-ad333-logo-overrun-bulk-golf-balls-95347.html $20 for 6 dozen balls?! I mean, sure they aren't balls I'll play a round with, but to fill a shag bag with to practice these would be great.
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Jul 28, 2016 14:55
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thebushcommander posted:http://maplehillgc.com/balls/golf-ball-closeouts/6-dozen-srixon-ad333-logo-overrun-bulk-golf-balls-95347.html Oh god bless you for this hahahaha
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Jul 28, 2016 14:58
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sarehu posted:This is dead wrong. You can look at pro golf stats or your own game. Thirty or sixty yards out you'll hit it closer to the hole than a hundred, even from the rough vs. from the fairway. If you're bad at golf you'll get fewer wild misses, you'll be on the green more often, closer to the hole, and with a lower score. If you're a pro, likewise. You might feel worse about your misses when you're closer but they're still better than where you'd be with a full wedge. http://www.pga.com/golf-instruction/lesson-learned/off-tee/lesson-learned-be-bold-and-lay http://www.golfdigest.com/story/harmon_gd0710 quote:Most golfers are better with a full wedge than from 30 to 50 yards. But see, e.g.: http://www.golfdigest.com/story/jb-holmes-shouldnt-have-laid-u torgeaux fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 15:43
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torgeaux posted:http://www.pga.com/golf-instruction/lesson-learned/off-tee/lesson-learned-be-bold-and-lay Every Shot Counts by Mark Broadie, the guy who created the Strokes-Gained stats, claims the opposite according to data from tens of thousands of tracked rounds by pros and amateurs. The numbers show that driver is pretty much always the best play off the tee unless it's significantly more likely to cause a penalty somehow, and the extra yards result in lower average scores even if you miss the fairway. I think there's more to it than that (and he acknowledges there are caveats and exceptions in the book) but it's hard to argue with the numbers especially now that Strokes-Gained has shown to be a better indicator of scoring than the traditional stats. And none of your three links are really talking about the same thing as this thread anyways as far as I can tell. Suprfli6 fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 16:11
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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torgeaux posted:Look at it this way: Par 5, 630 yards. I cannot reach in 2. I can hit driver/3 wood and be inside 100 yards, but also am hitting 3 wood off the deck. I can hit driver/hybrid and be at 125. It's always driver/hybrid. I'm more accurate with my wedge at 125 than I am with my lob wedge at 80, and I'm MUCH more likely to be at the right angle hitting that hybrid than the 3 wood. If your lob wedge is worse than a pitching wedge you need to get your clubs adjusted, it doesn't fit you. But it's probably not, it just feels worse when you have an equal miss. Actual data shows that pros and amateurs are better off from closer distances instead of full wedge distances. They're better off laying up closer if they can. Obviously the right distance is often one with less trouble. If you don't think so, I recommend tracking your average score from 125 yards out, 100 yards out, 75 yards out, etc.
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Jul 28, 2016 16:34
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Suprfli6 posted:Every Shot Counts by Mark Broadie, the guy who created the Strokes-Gained stats, claims the opposite according to data from tens of thousands of tracked rounds by pros and amateurs. The numbers show that driver is pretty much always the best play off the tee unless it's significantly more likely to cause a penalty somehow, and the extra yards result in lower average scores even if you miss the fairway. Well, they're talking about exactly my point, we may be talking past each other. However, driver off tee is certainly not best for most amateurs. A regular, 370 yard par 4, assuming I hit both driver or 5w perfect, I can be 70 yards out or 120. Your position is, it's always better to go for 70, even if that means hitting from rough vs fairway. That ignores that I'll hit the driver with less accuracy, which means more shots from rough or unfavorable lies/angles than the 5w. So, even if your thesis is true, that a 70 yard shot is more accurate than a 120 (it isn't for me, and I think many others), it fails to factor the times you'll have no shot to the green because of trees/lie, etc...which will happen much less with the 5w. How many times will I gain a shot from 70 in the rough versus 120 middle fairway? Even excellent players are going to gain less than a stroke on average, but my personal experience is that the less favorable angle/lie is going to lose me a shot more often than the distance gains one. Which discounts, again, that I'll hit my 120 club more consistently than the 70. My bottom line is, most players are better served playing to a distance at which they are comfortable with the shot than simply trying to get closer and putting themselves at awkward distances. Real world example: This is Fossil Trace number 10. 333 yard par 4, reachable from the elevated tee. I hit 6 or 7 iron from the tips, and gap wedge to green. Many players either go for it, or hit driver/3w down the fairway. Going for it has an obvious risk/reward. You have to carry 280 plus to be safe, 300 to have a realistic shot of staying on the green. Hitting up the fairway gains incremental distance. I hit to 120 yards, leaves me a great angle up with the green's length moving away from me. I average just under par here. Guys who hit perfect 3w down the middle have 65 yards in, and are hitting across the length of this green. I think you'd agree I'm more likely to hit my 7 iron to where I want it than they are their 3w, right? https://youtu.be/MkkOCQN0FFo http://imgur.com/a/gXoRN sarehu posted:If your lob wedge is worse than a pitching wedge you need to get your clubs adjusted, it doesn't fit you. But it's probably not, it just feels worse when you have an equal miss. Let's say you're correct, that a full lob wedge is more accurate than a gap wedge (you really don't think people have clubs that are their go to, most accurate? I disagree, but it does illuminate the discussion). Do you contend a half wedge is consistently more accurate than a full swing? Because your thesis leaves a lot of less than full shots since you're playing for pure length. torgeaux fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 16:37
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torgeaux posted:My bottom line is, most players are better served playing to a distance at which they are comfortable with the shot than simply trying to get closer and putting themselves at awkward distances.
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Jul 28, 2016 16:54
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Golf sabremetrics, be still my heart.
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Jul 28, 2016 17:17
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torgeaux posted:Do you contend a half wedge is consistently more accurate than a full swing? Because your thesis leaves a lot of less than full shots since you're playing for pure length. On that hole if you could hit from closer "for free" instead of having substantially increased chance of hitting in the water, it would be in your interest to do so. Also, if you're hitting a wedge into a hole like that, there's no real benefit of having a certain angle, unless you really do miss long/short more than left/right.
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Jul 28, 2016 17:19
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sarehu posted:Yes. This is a 100% known fact for pro golfers when they choose to put themselves in the situation, it's also a 100% known fact for me, a 10 hcp golfer that doesn't practice the shot, and I'm happy to bet it's true for you. Also you're better from 70 yards in the rough than 125 from the fairway. (But not if you're behind a tree.) I think there are more factors at play here personally. Course layout seems pretty important. Is there any numbers on like 'average length of a par 4' for pga tournaments? When on average the par 4's are 430 yards long, then yeah, hitting driver and getting yourself <150 into the green is a lot better than laying up with a 3 wood or 2 iron to 160-180. Mainly because that's a wedge/short iron vs mid/long iron. I'm definitely in agreement there. But if the situation is more 40-70 yards(rough/bunkers/water/etc more in play because hitting driver) vs 80-110 yards(higher odds of hitting fairway) I'm not sure if it's as clear cut? I dunno, maybe it is. I also think that it goes without saying that the ability to hit knock down, 1/2 swing, one hop stop style pitches varies significantly from a pro to an amateur. My home course has a lot of crowned greens with really tight fairways, there's one hole in particular that is ~310 yards long but a sharp dogleg right. I can drive the green on occasion, but a mishit drive will leave me like 40-50 yards to a really shallow, crowned, firm green. I'm like 50/50 hitting the green from that distance on that hole, but more like 80% if I'm 100 yards out. The biggest difference for me is when I hit a full wedge the ball stops when it hits the green. I can't say the same for a 30-50 yard shot(I will get some run out on these most of the time). So, if I have a tight angle or the green is especially shallow, that makes the shorter shot more challenging.
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Jul 28, 2016 19:36
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sarehu posted:Yes. This is a 100% known fact for pro golfers when they choose to put themselves in the situation, it's also a 100% known fact for me, a 10 hcp golfer that doesn't practice the shot, and I'm happy to bet it's true for you. Also you're better from 70 yards in the rough than 125 from the fairway. (But not if you're behind a tree.) This disagrees with your fairway/rough analysis: http://www.columbia.edu/~mnb2/broadie/Assets/strokes_gained_pga_broadie_20110408.pdf#page=31 I'm reading on the rest of the analytics now. They of course suffer from the problem of all statistics. If 90 golfers are better at 100 yards than 120, it doesn't make the 10 that are better at 120 any better at 100. I'm always willing to experiment on the course, though, since I'm only restarting my handicap out of curiosity, not because it matters. I'll alter a few of my holes to see if the closer distance has any impact, good or bad, and see. I record my stats pretty well, but I'll have to add distance of approach to track this. We'll see.
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Jul 28, 2016 19:36
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mattfl posted:$20 for 6 dozen balls?! I mean, sure they aren't balls I'll play a round with, but to fill a shag bag with to practice these would be great. Basically. I gave some dude my old rear end Burner Superfast that I haven't used in 5 years and he paid for shipping which was only 12 bucks, but he gave me 20 so, boom free 6 dozen balls to drive into the marsh or ocean while on vacation next week.
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Jul 28, 2016 19:43
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EnsGDT posted:Golf sabremetrics, be still my heart. I can't wait for moneyball to make it to the PGA somehow 
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Jul 28, 2016 19:44
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torgeaux posted:This disagrees with your fairway/rough analysis: http://www.columbia.edu/~mnb2/broadie/Assets/strokes_gained_pga_broadie_20110408.pdf#page=31 2.93 vs 2.86 if you're in a PGA event. The rough is friendlier on most courses, and most golfers have more self-induced inaccuracy so I think that'll overcome the 0.07 stroke gap. It's bogeying and double bogeying from that distance that'll get people like me, not an inability to get up and down from that distance.
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Jul 28, 2016 20:20
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sarehu posted:2.93 vs 2.86 if you're in a PGA event. The rough is friendlier on most courses, and most golfers have more self-induced inaccuracy so I think that'll overcome the 0.07 stroke gap. It's bogeying and double bogeying from that distance that'll get people like me, not an inability to get up and down from that distance. Yes, at best it's a push, as opposed to a clear benefit to being closer. Yeah, it's tough to break out the impact on amateurs, not just because the rough might be worse. 3 strokes from that distance should be pretty routine for a 10 handicap. After all, you've really put yourself in ideal regulation par play. Assuming you're lying one at a par 4, 2 at a 5, that is. The links to the other analytics articles are dead, so I'm digging around. This is interesting, but goes against my own experience (at least as you've described it). Like I said, I'll start tracking approach distances and see how it tracks out.
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Jul 28, 2016 20:31
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DJExile posted:I can't wait for moneyball to make it to the PGA somehow I think you'd be surprised how many guys already use the stats that matter. Also, nobody at the top of this list should be any surprise: http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02675.html Also, this is super fun information that informs watching every week. For instance...look at how lovely a putter Adam Scott is hahaha BUT, he makes up for it with his Tee to Green: http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02674.html But who is the best putter? http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02564.html Jason Day, duh. EnsGDT fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 21:47
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Bunch of places dropped the Nike Vapor clubs down today (PGA, Golfsmith, Dicks, Worldwidegolf) if anyone else was interested. Golfsmith was already backordered on the Vapor Pro driver in stiff but Dicks wasn't, although my local stores had none. Golf Galaxy has a 20% off code that's 20GGOFF so I ordered through their site. Suprfli6 fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Jul 29, 2016 |
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Jul 29, 2016 14:13
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My golf buddy moved to Oregon a month ago and I'm tempted to send him those duck dynasty balls.
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Jul 29, 2016 21:38
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The Maestro posted:My golf buddy moved to Oregon a month ago and I'm tempted to send him those duck dynasty balls. doooo itttttt 
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Jul 29, 2016 21:40
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The Maestro posted:My golf buddy moved to Oregon a month ago and I'm tempted to send him those duck dynasty balls. They would have already been sent yesterday when I found out about them.
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Jul 30, 2016 03:03
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I have a large golf problem that I need help with. I need a golf hat that isn't a baseball cap, protect my shaved head from the sun, comes in Extra large, and doesn't make me look like an idiot. Help me goons, you are my only hope.
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Aug 1, 2016 14:30
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daslog posted:I have a large golf problem that I need help with. I mean.... have you seen golf fashions?  In all honesty if you want all around coverage I'd just get a decent bucket or sun hat and make sure you keep a bottle of sunscreen in your bag. Yeah you'll look a little doofy but getting your ears/neck cooked by the sun really sucks.
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Aug 1, 2016 15:07
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daslog posted:I have a large golf problem that I need help with. This is important. I shaved 5 strokes off my game by dressing like I knew what I was doing. (A few guys I play with always wear a bucket hat, try that. The more ridiculous looking the better imo.)
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Aug 1, 2016 15:25
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dangling pointer posted:The more ridiculous looking the better imo.) 100% truth right here.
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Aug 1, 2016 15:27
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Make sure you ask the people you golf with if they want to go to Red Lobster and it's your treat.
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Aug 1, 2016 15:30
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 Your'e welcome
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Aug 1, 2016 15:38
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First round yesterday with the new Cobra King F6+, thing is a beast on the track. I didn't realize it made such a hollow thunk noise. When I hit one on a simulator the sound I guess was dampened from being in a small indoor space, but drat, this bitch be loud and awesome. Was a hard day to judge much more than accuracy thanks to the 30mph wind in the face all day, also it was 104 degrees with a heat index of like 112. Question for those that got one, does it seem really stiff, but then slightly flexy near the hozzle? I couldn't tell if it was just me, but I literally checked to make sure the screw was properly in and torqued twice to make sure. Running at 9.5 with weight in the second to front penetrating slot. Can't wait to get out there with it again after I adjust a bit. I literally took the plastic off the head while I was waiting on the first tee-box and put everything where I thought it would fit my game, pretty much everything was straight or fade and a I had 1 nice baby draw so it's *close*
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Aug 1, 2016 16:57
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thebushcommander posted:First round yesterday with the new Cobra King F6+, thing is a beast on the track. I didn't realize it made such a hollow thunk noise. When I hit one on a simulator the sound I guess was dampened from being in a small indoor space, but drat, this bitch be loud and awesome. Was a hard day to judge much more than accuracy thanks to the 30mph wind in the face all day, also it was 104 degrees with a heat index of like 112. Question for those that got one, does it seem really stiff, but then slightly flexy near the hozzle? I couldn't tell if it was just me, but I literally checked to make sure the screw was properly in and torqued twice to make sure. Running at 9.5 with weight in the second to front penetrating slot. Can't wait to get out there with it again after I adjust a bit. I literally took the plastic off the head while I was waiting on the first tee-box and put everything where I thought it would fit my game, pretty much everything was straight or fade and a I had 1 nice baby draw so it's *close* Where does it rank compared to the nike sasquatch driver sound?
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Aug 1, 2016 17:02
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DJExile posted:Where does it rank compared to the nike sasquatch driver sound? That's what I played in highschool. Without fail someone would comment on it every match. Until the one time I teed off and it made the loudest sound I've ever heard a club make. Looked at it and it had a huge crack starting at the face over top the crown. It was during practice so we had fun smacking old balls after it broke and making funny sounds. What's the funniest sounding driver you guys have played? The Nike covert driver makes a pretty weird sound.
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Aug 1, 2016 17:31
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DJExile posted:Where does it rank compared to the nike sasquatch driver sound? Pretty close actually, more of hollow sound, not that loud metal THUNK noise. So far it's awesome, I actually have a squatch somewhere so I might have to bring them both to the range and compare with a nice video  dangling pointer posted:What's the funniest sounding driver you guys have played? The Nike covert driver makes a pretty weird sound. My brother uses a Covert and it's not that weird sounding. I always thought my old R1 was odd as it made this sound like you were taking a bunch of sticks and snapping them in half when you hit it dead center thebushcommander fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Aug 1, 2016 |
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Aug 1, 2016 20:10
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Two questions: 1) What is the format of golf at the Olympics? and 2) How are we going to bet on it?
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Aug 2, 2016 00:26
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EnsGDT posted:Two questions: Normal pool rules?
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Aug 2, 2016 00:29
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dangling pointer posted:What's the funniest sounding driver you guys have played? The Nike covert driver makes a pretty weird sound. Mate used to own one of these, sounded like hitting the ball with a coke can. 
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Aug 2, 2016 00:36
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