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Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006

It was 25k like 2 years ago so don't get too comfortable with that number either.

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site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch
It's kinda weird to think about just how low book sales are. 20k domestic is good out of a population of 320 million. dang :(

JoshTheStampede
Sep 8, 2004

come at me bro

site posted:

It's kinda weird to think about just how low book sales are. 20k domestic is good out of a population of 320 million. dang :(

And yet last month the comics industry had its single most lucrative month in 20 years. It's just that there's SO MANY comics that the number of people reading any one title is going to be kind of low.

And of course that 20k is not counting digital or trades. It's also not "good", its just kinda the point where your head is above water and you're out of the cancellation danger zone.

bessantj
Jul 27, 2004


prefect posted:

If the publisher is a really big fan, that can keep a comic going.

Endless Mike posted:

This heavily depends on the publisher, and direct sales are only a portion of the puzzle. For Marvel and DC, 15k is about the cutoff number, though books that sell well in trades or digitally might be let continue. Or might not.

Thanks a lot so 15k is a goodish indicator that the comic could be safe but as with everything in the entertainment industry a publisher could cancel a successful/keep a failing comic going.

Teenage Fansub
Jan 28, 2006

Ultragonk posted:

Thanks a lot so 15k is a goodish indicator that the comic could be safe

No. That would almost certainly be a dead comic. It looks like Marvel decided to do their first ANAD cancellations in the 20ks.

I think of Gotham Academy as a publisher saved comic. It's one of the only DC You era comics returning for a full new series with the same creators and that's probably not for sales.

e: Doctor Fate too. It's not coming back in Rebirth, but selling sub-10k copies, it's lasted 18 issues while everything else got 12 or cancelled early.

Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Jul 15, 2016

Xinder
Apr 27, 2013

i want to be a prince
Do they publish these sale numbers somewhere?

Teenage Fansub
Jan 28, 2006

Diamond does, but they're the physical distributors, so that's all you get.

bessantj
Jul 27, 2004


Teenage Fansub posted:

No. That would almost certainly be a dead comic. It looks like Marvel decided to do their first ANAD cancellations in the 20ks.

I think of Gotham Academy as a publisher saved comic. It's one of the only DC You era comics returning for a full new series with the same creators and that's probably not for sales.

Oh what's been cancelled?

Teenage Fansub
Jan 28, 2006

Ultragonk posted:

Oh what's been cancelled?

Black Knight, Weirdworld, Red Wolf, Angela and Howling Commandos died very quickly.

Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Jul 15, 2016

Endless Mike
Aug 13, 2003



Xinder posted:

Do they publish these sale numbers somewhere?

Diamond publishes their direct sales numbers. They're available on comichron.com. Comic Beat does a monthly analysis of the numbers comparing to previous sales that's pretty good.

site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

Endless Mike posted:

Diamond publishes their direct sales numbers. They're available on comichron.com. Comic Beat does a monthly analysis of the numbers comparing to previous sales that's pretty good.

Oh this is cool

Senior Woodchuck
Aug 29, 2006

When you're lost out there and you're all alone, a light is waiting to carry you home

Endless Mike posted:

Diamond publishes their direct sales numbers. They're available on comichron.com. Comic Beat does a monthly analysis of the numbers comparing to previous sales that's pretty good.

Technically, ICV2 makes estimates of the sales numbers based on the sales rankings Diamond releases. Pretty much every pro triple-swears that these estimates are always wrong, but they can still show general trends pretty well.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

Senior Woodchuck posted:

Technically, ICV2 makes estimates of the sales numbers based on the sales rankings Diamond releases. Pretty much every pro triple-swears that these estimates are always wrong, but they can still show general trends pretty well.

Most shops take issue with the ICV2 numbers because there is no system in place to account for unsold copies of books which would often times tell a much different story. Also they rarely include adjusted data from returnable books correctly.

site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

Rhyno posted:

Most shops take issue with the ICV2 numbers because there is no system in place to account for unsold copies of books which would often times tell a much different story. Also they rarely include adjusted data from returnable books correctly.

Do you know if comichron does this?

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

site posted:

Do you know if comichron does this?

No because there's no way to get all shops to report this data.


Oh and ICV2 doesn't report on occasions like when Marvel and Diamond overshipped Civil War II #1 to select accounts by 10% to artificially bump their numbers.

Endless Mike
Aug 13, 2003



Unsold copies aren't particularly relevant, though. It doesn't take but a month or two for a retailer worth their salt to cut orders on a comic that's not selling. It just isn't borne out in this month's numbers. Publishers are only concerned with what they sell to Diamond, since most of the time what they're selling is non-returnable.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

Endless Mike posted:

Unsold copies aren't particularly relevant, though. It doesn't take but a month or two for a retailer worth their salt to cut orders on a comic that's not selling. It just isn't borne out in this month's numbers. Publishers are only concerned with what they sell to Diamond, since most of the time what they're selling is non-returnable.

The first three months of a massive relaunch are usually very relevant to sales numbers. And while it't not normal, we're now at 6 months of solicited Rebirth books from DC that are fully returnable.

Air Skwirl
May 13, 2007

Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.
Unsold comic books aren't returnable unlike book books right? What happens when a store gets over shipped, and like you order 50 copies of Civil War II and get 55, but only sell 48, do you eat the cost of the 2 extra books you ordered or the full 7?

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

Skwirl posted:

Unsold comic books aren't returnable unlike book books right? What happens when a store gets over shipped, and like you order 50 copies of Civil War II and get 55, but only sell 48, do you eat the cost of the 2 extra books you ordered or the full 7?

Most comics are not returnable, DC's current full returnability is loving bonkers. Generally when they overship those copies are returnable or they later issue a credit for them so they end up being free.

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

I believe in all the ways that they say you can lose your body
Fallen Rib
Curious what are considered good numbers on non DC and Marvel books. Like what does Client, Dark Horse and Image consider a cut off point?

Air Skwirl
May 13, 2007

Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.

Madkal posted:

Curious what are considered good numbers on non DC and Marvel books. Like what does Client, Dark Horse and Image consider a cut off point?

I don't think we have solid numbers for that, but according to writer/artist combos at Image they make more off a 15K selling (creator owned) Image book than a 40K selling book at Marvel. So the cut off is somewhere lower than 15K.

Endless Mike
Aug 13, 2003



Image, as a publisher, doesn't have a cutoff like work-for-hire companies due to how their deals work. The short version is that creators pay a set cost per issue (last I heard it was $5000), which Image takes out of the sales, then they get whatever else is made. Basically it comes down to the creators to determine what they're willing to risk, and you'll see plenty of Image comics sitting well below the 15k (and even 10k) level since they sell well in trades or digitally or whatever.

Air Skwirl
May 13, 2007

Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.

Endless Mike posted:

Image, as a publisher, doesn't have a cutoff like work-for-hire companies due to how their deals work. The short version is that creators pay a set cost per issue (last I heard it was $5000), which Image takes out of the sales, then they get whatever else is made. Basically it comes down to the creators to determine what they're willing to risk, and you'll see plenty of Image comics sitting well below the 15k (and even 10k) level since they sell well in trades or digitally or whatever.

And again, according to (I think) Gillen/McKelvie, they make a lot more money off a 15k selling Image book than a 30K selling Marvel book.

Decius
Oct 14, 2005

Ramrod XTreme

Skwirl posted:

And again, according to (I think) Gillen/McKelvie, they make a lot more money off a 15k selling Image book than a 30K selling Marvel book.

It's basically considered a super hit. He makes it sound like 15k Indie comics is more or less equivalent to one of the 100k DC/Marvel bestsellers: http://kierongillen.tumblr.com/post/121756273497/market-maven-is-the-wicked-the-divine-in

site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch
So I got a question about previews. I've been starting to take a peak at the weekly releases thread and there's a lot of stuff coming out that i just have no idea what it is. Are the preview you guys talk about a thing that has like a short synopsis of upcoming books or are they just like straight bulk order pricing mags with no descriptions? I'm just trying to find something faster than just going down the list one by one and googling them.

X-O
Apr 28, 2002

Long Live The King!

site posted:

So I got a question about previews. I've been starting to take a peak at the weekly releases thread and there's a lot of stuff coming out that i just have no idea what it is. Are the preview you guys talk about a thing that has like a short synopsis of upcoming books or are they just like straight bulk order pricing mags with no descriptions? I'm just trying to find something faster than just going down the list one by one and googling them.

http://www.previewsworld.com/newreleases

site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

Oh look it's exactly what i need. Thank you :)

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007

re: Hal Jordan, I always liked him for the superficial reason that Gil Kane's silver age redesign of his costume is some of my favorite graphic design in all of comics.

JoshTheStampede
Sep 8, 2004

come at me bro
Silver Age Hal is fine. It's everything after he comes back from the dead that was dumb and forced and boring.

Air Skwirl
May 13, 2007

Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.
Edit: Wrong thread.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007

I was talking about this with a friend the other day, but the Green Lantern/Aliens crossover from the '90s is pretty cool. First issue is Hal, rest of the mini is Kyle cleaning up his mess.

Sinners Sandwich
Jan 4, 2012

Give me your friend's BURGERS and SANDWICHES, I'll put out the fire.

Just finished Avenger's Childrens Crusade and it was pretty good. I was wondering if any comics address what the avengers do with the giant stone memorial statues for their fallen roster whenever one of them gets revived. Is their just a warehouse somewhere?


Another dumb question, I have not read any of Miles Morales 616 adventures yet and wondering if they address the angst of moving from a dead universe or not. I got a feeling their going to sidestep it since there's supposed to be a 8 month time skip but it's pretty screwed up thing for a 15 year old to go through. Like even though most of his supporting cast carried over and their identical there's still people like Jessica Drew (A complety different incarnation, Cloak and Dagger , Kitty Pryde (Who were aged down in the Ultimate Universe), Gwen Stacy and Aunt May (The former which probably has been dead before Miles learned how to walk).



I may have gotten attached to the Ultimate U more than I should have

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.
I don't think Miles, or anyone else, knows he used to be in a different universe.

Soonmot
Dec 19, 2002

Entrapta fucking loves robots




Grimey Drawer

Sinners Sandwich posted:

Just finished Avenger's Childrens Crusade and it was pretty good.

This is the first time that combination of words have been posted.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

Soonmot posted:

This is the first time that combination of words have been posted.

It had to happen eventually.

Sinners Sandwich
Jan 4, 2012

Give me your friend's BURGERS and SANDWICHES, I'll put out the fire.

Soonmot posted:

This is the first time that combination of words have been posted.

My first Marvel comic was Avengers Dissembled and Ive read every comic leading up to Childrens Crusade over the past 8 years.

It was very nostalgic

The Question IRL
Jun 8, 2013

Only two contestants left! Here is Doom's chance for revenge...

Soonmot posted:

This is the first time that combination of words have been posted.

And somewhere an all powerful supervillian has had all his powers switched off.

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

I haven't read Children's Crusade but Avengers Disassembled is a bad comic

Odonata
Nov 5, 2009
Nap Ghost

Rhyno posted:

It had to happen eventually.

Truly, we are but a thousand monkeys banging at a thousand keyboards for all time.

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Ferrule
Feb 23, 2007

Yo!

Sinners Sandwich posted:

Just finished Avenger's Childrens Crusade and it was pretty good. I was wondering if any comics address what the avengers do with the giant stone memorial statues for their fallen roster whenever one of them gets revived. Is their just a warehouse somewhere?

Hank Pym came back just recently (again) and one of the first things he did was go out an destroy his statue. (uncanny avengers, I believe)

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