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plushpuffin posted:Also, could you elaborate on what's wrong with Avast? Do you pay for antivirus, or do you use another product with a free edition? Antivirus with even a potential for consumer payment tends to encourage its continued use and hopeful subscription by being obnoxious in the user's general direction, and antivirus in general only catches 'the classics' because any modern attacker will throw their work at VirusTotal until it gets a clean bill of health. ... Uhm, let me revise my earlier statement: ad-block may be more important than antivirus now. Apparently even Windows Defender is doing "enhanced notifications" now (easy enough to turn off in its settings, but still) because decades of garbage like Norton has taught millions of users that that's how antivirus works. Ugh.
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Jul 31, 2016 09:12
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I totally hear you. I started using Avast years ago and I've just stuck with it, even as it's gotten more and more annoying with pop-ups from my system tray. I've been considering installing another product with a free edition but I figured it would probably be just as intrusive, and I wasn't sure about paying for one when I've already got multi-layer precautions and I've never been infected. I was just curious as to whether I should get off my rear end and finally switch.
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Jul 31, 2016 09:21
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MSE got built into Windows Defender starting with Windows 8. The antivirus is coming from inside the OS now. And it at least has fewer weird filesystem hooks. ... Yes, I know about the intended filesystem hooks for third-party AV, but that assumes that third-party AV either adopted good practice or wished to operate in good faith.
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Jul 31, 2016 09:25
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Thanks, I'm still on Windows 7, or I might be content with the built-in AV. I was mainly concerned about Avast falling behind in detection compared to the others, although I consider antivirus to be the last line of defense. The pop-ups are slightly annoying, but I'm used to them at this point.
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Jul 31, 2016 09:29
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plushpuffin posted:To add to that, keep your PC behind a NAT (router) and don't forward ports or run a server; install an ad blocker in your browser (ad networks CANNOT be trusted to deliver safe content); keep your browser plugins (Flash, Java, Silverlight) up to date and set them to click-to-play; make sure your email client is using both antivirus and a good spam filter; don't let anyone else use your computer if you can help it; never use express install for any applications (use custom install and deselect bundled software); and if you're really paranoid you can disable JavaScript in your browser entirely and opt-in specific websites. Oh yeah, sorry I forgot to mention that I did all those things too (I used NoScript rather than disabling JavaScript entirely or using an ad blocker). Just didn't install Windows updates  NoScript is a pain in the rear end though.I guess if you have a laptop you take to cafes with unsecured WiFi you're not in such a great position any more since you're no longer a NAT hop away from the machines that are trying to infect you Sir Unimaginative posted:How many people even know about Ubuntu? I think it's pretty much the default new user Linux distribution these days. Not that I'm saying many people even know what Linux is. quote:Now why would anyone who didn't go looking for minor Linux distros even know what yours is called? I use Red Hat provided and/or -based ones, so they're reasonably well-known. quote:Also why would you do Avast to your in-laws.  Reviews say it's okay, don't have any of my own personal experience to base it on because I don't run an on-access scanner  Seriously don't try this at home kids.quote:After all you've said do you still think most people should avoid updates? As I said, no. quote:Because that's how 'updates are overblown' right after slagging the OS for their update practices sounds to normal users. You're saying people might do what I do instead of what I say? No risk of that in Windows 10 though as far as I can tell, I can't seem to stop updates, Microsoft don't care if my connection is metered, they're gonna use it anyway I guess my point is (and thanks plushpuffin for reminding me of half of it) that for my home PC (not something that gets attached to random networks) the Windows updates themselves aren't that important, it's all the other stuff which Microsoft doesn't control (unless they do now?), like Firefox/Chrome updates, Flash updates, and having a good sense of what software is safe to use. Don't install free screensavers quote:If you can get people the time they need to find the new way, and work around all the document feature problems and lost software and perceived lost utility, and the sunk-cost fallacies they'll bring up in a way that doesn't turn them off of your proposal entirely, then you might have something. (Or the money AND time to Mac.) Sorry, I didn't mean for it to sound like I was trying to convert people to Linux. This seems like definitely the wrong thread for that. I wish I could find the time. Neither solution is perfect. You can't really get away from Windows for games, so what are you going to do? My plan is to just use Windows when I absolutely have to, which probably means every time I start it up it's going to want to download a bunch of updates.It's funny, it's like Linux has problems because nobody got around to fixing them and Microsoft has (what I perceive to be) problems because they actually went out of their way to put them there. On Linux, I search the web to find out how to make it do the things I want it to do, and I type in the commands the web page tells me. On Windows, I search the web to find out how to make it not do the things I don't want it to do, and I click in the settings dialogs the web pages tell me. (no, I don't just do whatever the page says without having some understanding of what it's saying, or some trust in the author because e.g. it's a well-known magazine) quote:Out of curiosity, what OS does your phone run? An old version of Android, because gently caress you Samsung for wanting people to throw their phones into landfill regularly. I have to keep MMS support turned off so I don't get infected, it's a pain in the rear end. quote:IPv6 breaks if you use NAT, and IPv4 is full. I think you have to be a bigger nerd than me to care about IPv6 though. Maybe it's great if you want a publically routable IP for your machine at home so you can run some kind of server on it. Of course doing that kind of thing is a good way to open yourself up to problems. Otherwise why would any home user care about IPv6? quote:Piecing together a working Web with a JavaScript whitelist sounds like a hell of a time investment. It could be, but I don't use that many sites, and when I go to some random site that I have no reason to trust and it doesn't work I don't spend any time trying to get it to work, I just don't look at it. Sir Unimaginative posted:antivirus in general only catches 'the classics' because any modern attacker will throw their work at VirusTotal until it gets a clean bill of health. Oh yeah of course they would, that makes sense. Even not realizing this, I don't trust something just because it passed anti-virus. I'd prefer to just run things in a sandbox. Apparently the paid version of Avast actually has this, but that's just a coincidence - as if I could bear to explain to my in-laws what sandboxing is! Windows Defender on the other hand I have heard has pretty bad detection rates.
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Jul 31, 2016 10:44
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plushpuffin posted:Thanks, I'm still on Windows 7, or I might be content with the built-in AV. I was mainly concerned about Avast falling behind in detection compared to the others, although I consider antivirus to be the last line of defense. The pop-ups are slightly annoying, but I'm used to them at this point. It doesn't really matter whether it's built-in since it's one download away on 7. Worry less about the detection rate, worry more about the security problems introduced by the antivirus itself. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3750534&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=18#post461605004 MSE isn't perfect but it's a lot less likely to undermine the security of the entire OS.
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Jul 31, 2016 14:11
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Buttcoin purse posted:You're saying people might do what I do instead of what I say? No risk of that in Windows 10 though as far as I can tell, I can't seem to stop updates, Microsoft don't care if my connection is metered, they're gonna use it anyway System libraries do not exist. APIs do not exist. DRIVERS do not exist. Your software is a flawless Randian super-app, detached from and immune to the environment in which it executes. And yes that is exactly what I'm saying. No one cares that you're disclaiming it with a 'don't be like me' because this is as much a best practices advice/assistance forum as a discussion forum (although HoTS is more so) and people will be reading it in that light. quote:An old version of Android, because gently caress you Samsung for wanting people to throw their phones into landfill regularly. I have to keep MMS support turned off so I don't get infected, it's a pain in the rear end. THIS IS EXACTLY THE POINT. This is system-level stuff that apps CANNOT patch out of themselves. You have become a victim of this. And yet you still dare to say 'updates are overblown'. quote:Sorry, I didn't mean for it to sound like I was trying to convert people to Linux. This seems like definitely the wrong thread for that. Then give up your games. They're just sunk costs, right? How can they be worth fighting the OS at every turn? quote:I guess if you have a laptop you take to cafes with unsecured WiFi you're not in such a great position any more since you're no longer a NAT hop away from the machines that are trying to infect you Fun fact, people with multiple devices are why IPv4 is full. And by full, I mean if you handed out one IPv4 address to each person on the planet, and that's all they get forever, you'd be out before you got to half of us. Carrier-grade NAT is breaking software, game systems, even infrastructure. And that's only going to get worse. That's why IPv6 is necessary, and that's why NAT won't be able to lazy workaround your rear end out of a problem anymore. quote:Oh yeah of course they would, that makes sense. Even not realizing this, I don't trust something just because it passed anti-virus. I'd prefer to just run things in a sandbox. Apparently the paid version of Avast actually has this, but that's just a coincidence - as if I could bear to explain to my in-laws what sandboxing is!  ? Seriously? Let me guess, it's AV comparatives, right? Read their methodology. As few system updates as possible. No virus database. A user that flails around and when forced to make a choice will preternaturally pick the worst option possible. And it's funded by paid AV vendors afraid Windows doesn't need them anymore and governments with vendettas against Microsoft. Oh yeah, I would totally take their word about Microsoft's built-in antivirus.Also what Dylan said right above me. dont be mean to me fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Jul 31, 2016 |
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Jul 31, 2016 14:31
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Jesus Christ what is going on in here? You know we have a security thread right?
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Jul 31, 2016 15:10
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So for the last 2 years I ran win7 with updates turned off, because something in there was hosed and always wanted to download a .NET version I already had, and when it did it would completely ruin .net such that I'd have to reinstall it. (Which is an hour of fun on 7, since afaik there was no all-in-one installer. You had to go in order v1 v2 v3 v3.5 v4.) But I downloaded the security update rollups every other month, and I browse enough tech websites that if there was some  zero day exploit patch NOW I'd see it within a few days and patch.If I had known there was an ability to hide an update so you'd never see it again and windows would never try to get it, I'd have done that! Never heard about that until the 10 upgrade shenanigans. :/ Sir Unimaginative posted:Pretty much the entire Web runs off of JavaScript these days, and everyone else's JavaScript at that. Piecing together a working Web with a JavaScript whitelist sounds like a hell of a time investment. Kinda depends on how many new sites you visit in an average day, and how much of your internet is ajax-y webapps vs text. It's getting worse as more places start putting content behind js loads, but noscript whitelist doesn't make the web totally unusable yet.
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Jul 31, 2016 15:15
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PerrineClostermann posted:Jesus Christ what is going on in here? You know we have a security thread right? We now return you to your regularly scheduled program "what's the difference between a license and an entitlement?" If you missed the last five hundred posts on this topic, stay tuned for them to be repeated nearly verbatim.
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Jul 31, 2016 15:51
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Don Lapre posted:So what happens now if you install 10 from a USB stick and put in a Windows key. Does activation just fail? Well, it wouldn't fail if that same hardware configuration had previously had it activated. Buttcoin purse posted:
Refusing to use IPv6 is a great way to cause yourself an increasing amount of problems as time goes on, not sure why you're so against it. NAT doesn't actually protect you against things.
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Jul 31, 2016 15:52
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IPv6 is good
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Jul 31, 2016 16:03
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plushpuffin posted:We now return you to your regularly scheduled program "what's the difference between a license and an entitlement?" If you missed the last five hundred posts on this topic, stay tuned for them to be repeated nearly verbatim. Good news: On Tuesday you will be using a "digital license" instead! In fact, if you're running an insider preview you will already see the wording changed to "digital license" in the Activation settings page.
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Jul 31, 2016 16:04
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Okay, so I'm seeing that a bunch of stuff can't be turned off in Anniversary Edition, then I'm also seeing articles that say "Yes it can, it's just in a different spot". Can anyone explain to me, in plain loving English, what the update is going to turn on, and if/how it can be turned back off if necessary.
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Jul 31, 2016 16:19
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From what I've read, you can still turn it off, they're just removing the ability to do so remotely via group policy (for Professional edition), because too many businesses for their liking are using the cheaper Pro edition and MS wants to push them to use Enterprise.
plushpuffin fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Jul 31, 2016 |
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Jul 31, 2016 16:23
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Missed out on this drat Windows 10 update. Wish I had seen this thread earlier. Didn't know about it until the day before and I was slammed from the time I went to work till the time I got up the next morning. Anyways, some questions with this Windows 10 Assistive Technologies version: - Will it have a larger install footprint than just Windows 10 Pro - If I have Windows 7 Pro, will I get WIndows 10 Pro - Can I turn off/remove all the Assistive Technologies features once it's installed - Should I just not worry about it and keep my Windows 7 Pro
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Jul 31, 2016 16:35
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DevCore posted:Missed out on this drat Windows 10 update. Wish I had seen this thread earlier. Didn't know about it until the day before and I was slammed from the time I went to work till the time I got up the next morning. I'm sorry if this isn't helpful, but I just have to ask. How did you never encounter a "Get Windows 10" popup, an ad, or a news article or segment telling you about the free upgrade over the past year? Have you had Windows Updates turned off entirely, and were you deployed long-term to an Antarctic research station?
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Jul 31, 2016 16:41
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DevCore posted:Missed out on this drat Windows 10 update. Wish I had seen this thread earlier. Didn't know about it until the day before and I was slammed from the time I went to work till the time I got up the next morning. I think it's just a normal Win 10 install, it's just a way for Microsoft to keep upgrades going without looking like they're waffling on their deadlines.
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Jul 31, 2016 16:42
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plushpuffin posted:I'm sorry if this isn't helpful, but I just have to ask. How did you never encounter a "Get Windows 10" popup, an ad, or a news article or segment telling you about the free upgrade over the past year? Have you had Windows Updates turned off entirely, and were you deployed long-term to an Antarctic research station? No idea. I was never plagued with "Update to 10!" popups like everyone else seems to have gotten. I actually don't think I've gotten a single update popup.
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Jul 31, 2016 16:45
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DevCore posted:Missed out on this drat Windows 10 update. Wish I had seen this thread earlier. Didn't know about it until the day before and I was slammed from the time I went to work till the time I got up the next morning. Nothing points to it being a special edition at all, it's still the regular Home or Pro edition. Yes, Pro upgrades to Pro. If you wait until after August 2nd you'll probably get the Anniversary Update version directly, rather than getting the previous version and then go through another upgrade a few days later. Maybe the installer will refuse to work if you don't have some assistive software running, if that's the case you can try just running the Magnifier tool that's built in to Windows 7.
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Jul 31, 2016 16:47
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Deviant posted:Okay, so I'm seeing that a bunch of stuff can't be turned off in Anniversary Edition, then I'm also seeing articles that say "Yes it can, it's just in a different spot". For what it's worth, the "Occasionally show suggestions in Start" setting, which is the "show advertisements for Store apps as tiles in Start" setting, still exists in the current slow ring insider build. If it isn't taken out there it's very unlikely to disappear in the final Anniversary update.
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Jul 31, 2016 16:52
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DevCore posted:No idea. I was never plagued with "Update to 10!" popups like everyone else seems to have gotten. This probably means that your hardware isn't compatible, or something was misconfigured so that it wasn't detected as compatible (for instance, I have an old Core 2 Duo laptop that the updater refused to accept as compatible because something had gone weird in the 7 install so it thought there was no NX bit support. After I had to reinstall 7 on it due to a hard drive failing, the new install started alerting for upgrade right away).
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Jul 31, 2016 16:54
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DevCore posted:No idea. I was never plagued with "Update to 10!" popups like everyone else seems to have gotten. If you haven't done anything to Windows to disable the GWX app, I would check to see if Windows Updates are even enabled. I was curious as to why my father's PC wasn't trying to force/trick him into upgrading, and when I checked he had manually disabled updates. If you're been running an unpatched Windows 7 for the past year(s) then I would highly recommend you jump to 10 ASAP. I'm saying this as someone who hates 10 a whole lot.
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Jul 31, 2016 16:55
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fishmech posted:This probably means that your hardware isn't compatible, or something was misconfigured so that it wasn't detected as compatible (for instance, I have an old Core 2 Duo laptop that the updater refused to accept as compatible because something had gone weird in the 7 install so it thought there was no NX bit support. After I had to reinstall 7 on it due to a hard drive failing, the new install started alerting for upgrade right away). Given how pushy Microsoft has been, it strikes me as odd that the GWX app wouldn't at least inform people of the free upgrade, check the hardware, and say "sorry you're not compatible, but if you replace X you can get the free upgrade." Maybe they were afraid of pissing off OEMs too much by outright discouraging people from buying new PCs?
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Jul 31, 2016 17:00
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I think the situation that fishmech is the most likely in my situation. I built a PC about 2 years ago, so it's definitely new enough to warrant a windows 10 update.
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Jul 31, 2016 17:22
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nielsm posted:For what it's worth, the "Occasionally show suggestions in Start" setting, which is the "show advertisements for Store apps as tiles in Start" setting, still exists in the current slow ring insider build. If it isn't taken out there it's very unlikely to disappear in the final Anniversary update. Well, I use Classic Start Menu, so that shouldn't be an issue.
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Jul 31, 2016 17:42
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nielsm posted:For what it's worth, the "Occasionally show suggestions in Start" setting, which is the "show advertisements for Store apps as tiles in Start" setting, still exists in the current slow ring insider build. If it isn't taken out there it's very unlikely to disappear in the final Anniversary update. It's still there in the final Anniversary update.
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Jul 31, 2016 17:49
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Sir Unimaginative posted:It's still there in the final Anniversary update.
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Jul 31, 2016 23:04
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Got windows 10, not noticing any Assistive Technology stuff. I think I managed to turn if all off at initial setup.
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Jul 31, 2016 23:21
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DevCore posted:Got windows 10, not noticing any Assistive Technology stuff. I think I managed to turn if all off at initial setup. I really doubt you turned off Assistive Technology stuff, there's nothing in setup that allows you to preemptively make custom control interfaces for people with disabilities not work.
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Jul 31, 2016 23:26
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fishmech posted:This probably means that your hardware isn't compatible, or something was misconfigured so that it wasn't detected as compatible (for instance, I have an old Core 2 Duo laptop that the updater refused to accept as compatible because something had gone weird in the 7 install so it thought there was no NX bit support. After I had to reinstall 7 on it due to a hard drive failing, the new install started alerting for upgrade right away). My desktop never popped upgrade notices, I believe due to some aggressive firewall policies that meant the GWX app was never able to phone home. Entire build was made with new hardware circa ~2013 so it shouldn't have been a hardware compatibility issue.
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Aug 1, 2016 00:50
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plushpuffin posted:From what I've read, you can still turn it off, they're just removing the ability to do so remotely via group policy (for Professional edition), because too many businesses for their liking are using the cheaper Pro edition and MS wants to push them to use Enterprise.
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Aug 1, 2016 00:58
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I am now digitally entitled. Almost a week after I upgraded and ran Windows Update and installed some updates and had no other updates available and turned my PC on and off every day since then with no issue... Today I turn it on and get the black screen with the percentage circle and then the "Welcome..." message (which I was pretty sure I saw a week ago, too) and now the activation settings show digital entitlement. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Aug 1, 2016 01:14
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GobiasIndustries posted:I'll check on the cortana/search bar thing. I didn't change a thing beyond finally letting the computer upgrade to 10 (and adding XBMC back into the task bar because it got removed) and it's been working for years so it's gotta be something weird with the new OS. Just an update, my remote works now, but only after a bunch of restarts. I didn't change a configuration setting at all, just ended up restarting the computer a few times (and the power in my apt went out) so, if anyone is looking for answers from me, I have none 
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Aug 1, 2016 01:45
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I'm running Windows 10 but I still have crap from Lenovo in the background and the loving Verizon guy insisted on installing stuff onto my notebook saying I couldn't activate FiOS otherwise, and I cannot find a way to remove it from my PC. Anyway I'd like to format my HDD and do a clean install of Win10, I have the registry keys already. I'm planning on installing from a thumbdrive. Do I need to download all my Lenovo drivers before I reinstall or can I get them afterwords?
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Aug 1, 2016 02:33
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Filthy Hans posted:I'm running Windows 10 but I still have crap from Lenovo in the background and the loving Verizon guy insisted on installing stuff onto my notebook saying I couldn't activate FiOS otherwise, and I cannot find a way to remove it from my PC. Anyway I'd like to format my HDD and do a clean install of Win10, I have the registry keys already. I'm planning on installing from a thumbdrive. Do I need to download all my Lenovo drivers before I reinstall or can I get them afterwords? You should absolutely download copies of all the Lenovo drivers first, even though you should be able to get them after a fresh install.
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Aug 1, 2016 02:40
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fishmech posted:You should absolutely download copies of all the Lenovo drivers first, even though you should be able to get them after a fresh install. Thanks duder, see you in the USPol thread
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Aug 1, 2016 02:52
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Almost everything on the Lenovo will probably work after a clean install, but download your network drivers as insurance before you install.
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Aug 1, 2016 02:57
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Tightening their grip: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/windows_hardware_certification/2016/07/26/driver-signing-changes-in-windows-10-version-1607/ They will eventually enforce secure boot, causing all of this to be mandatory, and that will be the end of the small hardware developer.
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Aug 1, 2016 04:44
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EoRaptor posted:Tightening their grip: They will eventually force all programs to be UWP, and that will be the end of small and open source programmers! They will eventually force all directx apps to be signed through the Windows Store, and that will be the end of steam / indie games!  (a 10 second google will show that this has been in the works since 2015, and does not mean that drivers have to go through a complete Windows Certification test. it does mean some additional hoops to jump through, but the smallest of hardware developers can fit through those. It does gently caress over the tinkerer / independent guy making new drivers for re-purposed hardware, except that anyone doing that, or even running someone else's weird one-off drivers, probably already has secure boot turned off. Or doesn't need to run kernel drivers in the first place, for example the DS4tool project is totally unaffected.) MS being able to revoke certs for kernel mode stuff that turns out to be malicious -- actual malware, bad-ideas OEM crapware that turns out to have massive security holes, or junk like that Sony cd driver that hosed your pc to try to prevent you from ripping music -- is a good thing. Abuse of that ability would be bad but they haven't done it yet.
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Aug 1, 2016 05:45
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