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Moridin920 posted:someone told me that finance kills what makes you human because you start thinking about everyone as just numbers and one day you wake up and realize you're dead inside when you see a news story about some super massive tragedy and all you're thinking about is what trade opportunities this presents There are plenty of studies proving that studying economics shifts persons value system several points towards sociopathy.
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Aug 4, 2016 22:00
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Fat Shat Sings posted:You do know 1/3rd of Americans have no retirement, no 401ks, no mutual funds. Yes, I am aware of that. And that is a direct result of the social security con job that has been passed off on them. Rather than emphasizing savings and investment, or teaching basic financial management, workers have been promised that the government, super-duper promise stick a needle in my eye, will care for them when they're old. Fat Shat Sings posted:Tens of millions of people don't even know that much about the stock market and are working poor subsidized by the government because their jobs don't pay a livable wage, specifically in service of shareholders. *citation needed I contest that their jobs often don't pay a livable wage because of the government. Keep in mind that we live in a country that pays farmers not to grow crops in order to artificially inflate the price of food, and then turns around and gives food stamps to people who can't afford to eat... because the price of food is too high. quote:So there is a difference. If you are a worker and you've managed to work your way up to investing, good job you got lucky. The people servicing your growth and returns are really just factored into your books as resources though and not "Fellow Investors who are all in it together" Most working people [can] invest. They simply don't, for reasons that I touched on above. Many companies or unions offer 401k or pension plans, which allow workers to invest. Companies like Wal-Mart, who employs thousands of low-wage workers, have employee stock purchase programs. There are ETFs, DRIPs, or other instruments that have a very low entry fee. Christ, I've been using the Acorns app recently, which rounds up transactions on my debit card and invests the difference. It's a few cents here and there, but it adds up over time. Like I said, it's not that they can't. It's that they don't. And they don't because no one is out there teaching or explaining the value and importance of investing.
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Aug 4, 2016 22:03
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they don't do it because it's legalized gambling. and the house always wins.
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Aug 4, 2016 22:07
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Walmart employees don't invest or save because they're poor as gently caress and slowly drowning
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Aug 4, 2016 22:19
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bernie madoff was actually a hero because he destroyed the wealth of a bunch of rich people who wanted to make money doing jack poo poo.
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Aug 4, 2016 22:21
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The idea that you should base your retirement around Walmart's employee stock purchase program might be the most ludicrous thing I've heard this year.
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Aug 4, 2016 22:21
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Professor Shark posted:Walmart employees don't invest or save because they're poor as gently caress and slowly drowning Its this. Its not that people don't want to invest its that the extra $50 this month is gas in the tank, and they need that gas in the tank more than they need the ~$13000 in 30 years (lol if they work at the same job that long to actually cash that amount out)
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Aug 4, 2016 22:27
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They have no idea how to save, or else they would. They might even have TWO minimum wage jobs they can save for retirement at!
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Aug 4, 2016 22:30
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The dirty animals
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Aug 4, 2016 22:31
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*adjusts glasses* I believe that if you refer to these several peer reviewed studies you will find that in fact ME MEEEE MINE MINE GIMME GIIIMMEEEEE MU HU HU HA HA *thunder, organ music*
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Aug 4, 2016 22:36
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Mr. 47 posted:Yes, I am aware of that. And that is a direct result of the social security con job that has been passed off on them. Rather than emphasizing savings and investment, or teaching basic financial management, workers have been promised that the government, super-duper promise stick a needle in my eye, will care for them when they're old. That drat gubmint
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Aug 4, 2016 22:54
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Mr. 47 posted:Keep in mind that we live in a country that pays farmers not to grow crops in order to artificially inflate the price of food, and then turns around and gives food stamps to people who can't afford to eat... because the price of food is too high. You're right we should leave it so that in years of good yields a bag of flour drops to $0.25 and half the farmers go bankrupt. Then the next year it's up to $25 due to supply shocks and maybe a weather event. This is a good idea to treat food the same way as products like motorcycles or tennis shoes.
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Aug 4, 2016 22:55
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"It's the governments fault and people working in literal poverty just aren't investing in the stock market because they are lazy" I don't want to say that you specifically are the problem, it's more the system that has graced you with the ability to Intuit your terrible opinions. We were talking about how Retail / Businesses are hosed in general and you want to go off about capital gains tax, investing and stocks and are saying that anyone who isn't a part of that conversation is responsible for that fact. You didn't bootstraps your way to whatever level of income you have, it was mostly luck based. Not everyone is as lucky as you, or me. I'm just not going and telling people working in literal poverty that the real problem with their company paying them no money is that they are too lazy to invest. A retail company slashes its workforce, benefits, hours and pay why exactly? So that they can make money, have profit and growth. This directly services stocks and shareholders. Just because you are the guy profiting off of people having their hours and pay obliterated doesn't mean it's those peoples fault and they certainly are not the same as the people profiting off of their lovely situation. Fat Shat Sings has a new favorite as of 23:06 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 23:04
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Give me some money to invest
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Aug 4, 2016 23:15
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Professor Shark posted:Walmart employees don't invest or save because they're poor as gently caress and slowly drowning WalMart gets a lot of grief and a big chunk of that is warranted (i.e. paying employees so little they need food stamps while simultaneously being the place most food stamps are spent) but they've actually bucked the trend over the last couple of years. I think their recent pay raises shaved a couple of billion off their yearly profit and it was something with long term benefits rather than short term.
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Aug 4, 2016 23:28
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Fat Shat Sings posted:it was mostly luck based. Not everyone is as lucky as you, or me. Ya guys dont try to better yourself or anything, its all luck based.
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Aug 5, 2016 00:54
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Haha yeah lettim have it JB!
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Aug 5, 2016 01:13
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Mr. 47 posted:I contest that their jobs often don't pay a livable wage because of the government. Keep in mind that we live in a country that pays farmers not to grow crops in order to artificially inflate the price of food, and then turns around and gives food stamps to people who can't afford to eat... because the price of food is too high. Just a heads up, but the problem food stamps are meant to alleviate isn't the high price of food.
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Aug 5, 2016 01:18
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JB50 posted:Ya guys dont try to better yourself or anything, its all luck based. Which is exactly what I said
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Aug 5, 2016 01:44
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Zahi posted:Honestly why don't the people who work in retail hell just go get trade degrees? You don't need to spend tons of money getting an MBA in an insanely competitive field making what 50k a year? I make about 120k working on cars, nothing special, and my trade degree was fully paid for by my company since everyone is so strapped for skilled labor right now in the trades. Skilled meaning "not a total retard and able to listen".
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Aug 5, 2016 01:53
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naem posted:The economy was so incredibly strong and there was so much opportunity-even for average middle class people- that they got away with this for years No going back too. I never got a defined benefit which I presume is pension
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Aug 5, 2016 02:46
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Darth123123 posted:No going back too. I never got a defined benefit which I presume is pension It's also an issue with ever expanding life spans. When men stopped dying of lung cancer or heart attacks at age 60, lifetime pensions became a whole lot more difficult to fund. Essentially it was never going to work long term, unless we started having a whole lot more kids to contribute to the pension funds.
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Aug 5, 2016 03:44
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My Rhythmic Crotch posted:How many hours a week are you working to make that 120k and what the hell kind of mechanic gets paid $120k a year?
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Aug 5, 2016 04:12
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I assumed he works on exotic cars in Miami or Los Angeles.
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Aug 5, 2016 04:23
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Azur posted:There are plenty of studies proving that studying economics shifts persons value system several points towards sociopathy. quote:In another experiment, students received money, and could either keep it or donate it to the common pool, where it would be multiplied and divided equally between all participants. On average, students contributed 49% of their money, but economics students contributed only 20%. When asked what a “fair” contribution was, the non-economists were clear: 100% of them said “half or more” (a full 25% said “all”). The economists struggled with this question. Over a third of them refused to answer it or gave unintelligible responses. The researchers wrote that the “meaning of ‘fairness’… was somewhat alien for this group." lol
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Aug 5, 2016 04:24
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Anyone know anything about JoAnns? My local one is a junky shitshow littered with As Seen On TV products, and I keep thinking they're about to go in. The manager hates me and I can tell the employees aren't treated that well. But if it dies, I've got nowhere to buy cloth. 
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Aug 5, 2016 04:59
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Bean posted:Anyone know anything about JoAnns? My local one is a junky shitshow littered with As Seen On TV products, and I keep thinking they're about to go in. The manager hates me and I can tell the employees aren't treated that well. It seems like Hobby Lobby seems to have hurt Michael's and JoAnn in a lot of places. The Hobby Lobby near me is cheaper and has a wider range of stuff, but not such a deep selection within each department. But I think JoAnn is owned by the same company that owns PetCo, Wholefood, Big 5, and Rite Aid, so they'll probably be fine.
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Aug 5, 2016 05:13
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Krispy Kareem posted:It's also an issue with ever expanding life spans. When men stopped dying of lung cancer or heart attacks at age 60, lifetime pensions became a whole lot more difficult to fund. Essentially it was never going to work long term, unless we started having a whole lot more kids to contribute to the pension funds. I would fully accept this argument if companies were contributing the same amount under defined contribution schemes than they were under defined benefits, which they aren't. In fact companies actually contribute quite a bit less under DC, at a time when we need to be contributing more to fund over decreased mortality companies are chipping in less and less. Its just about companies cutting back what they actually have to put in while giving off the appearance that they have a great benefits package.
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Aug 5, 2016 05:31
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Krispy Kareem posted:It's also an issue with ever expanding life spans. When men stopped dying of lung cancer or heart attacks at age 60, lifetime pensions became a whole lot more difficult to fund. Essentially it was never going to work long term, unless we started having a whole lot more kids to contribute to the pension funds. you think heart attack rates are going to go down in the next 20 years? lol
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Aug 5, 2016 05:31
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When five bizillion old people are pennyless and dying in the street I'm pretty sure they'll vote for increased "not dying in the street" taxes anyways
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Aug 5, 2016 05:34
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Professor Shark posted:They have no idea how to save, or else they would. They might even have TWO minimum wage jobs they can save for retirement at! That's what MacDonalds told their employees to do.
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Aug 5, 2016 07:43
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naem posted:When five bizillion old people are pennyless and dying in the street I'm pretty sure they'll vote for increased "not dying in the street" taxes anyways You have way more faith in people than I do. Anyway, whoever they vote for doesn't have to do what they're voted in to do, just make insignificant surface level changes. At least until Red ________/day
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Aug 5, 2016 10:46
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JB50 posted:Ya guys dont try to better yourself or anything, its all luck based. it is mostly luck. you had to be born in a certain place to certain people and finish school at the right time and apply for a job at the right time.
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Aug 5, 2016 10:55
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Groovelord Neato posted:it is mostly luck. you had to be born in a certain place to certain people and finish school at the right time and apply for a job at the right time. Lol, sure, everything is random chance, no point in trying.
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Aug 5, 2016 14:20
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EugeneJ posted:lol The branch of economists that still try to get taken seriously as a kind of mathematics is truly  inducing. They're so in love with the theories of how markets and rational actors work that they can't really deal with how they work in practice. It seems like the only economists worth a drat are the hardcore empirical ones like Piketty or the ones who utterly destroy the notion of rational actors by studying cognitive bias and the factors that are actually responsible for making decisions like Aielly. The rest is basically pseudoscience dedicated to jerking off capitalists.
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Aug 5, 2016 14:28
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PallasAthene posted:It seems like Hobby Lobby seems to have hurt Michael's and JoAnn in a lot of places. The Hobby Lobby near me is cheaper and has a wider range of stuff, but not such a deep selection within each department. When I first heard about Hobby Lobby (never seen one in the wild) I wondered how that could be a thing when A.C. Moore exists and is amazing and destroys its competitors. Then I found out A.C. Moore is regional and I'm just a dumb provincial.
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Aug 5, 2016 14:36
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1500quidporsche posted:I would fully accept this argument if companies were contributing the same amount under defined contribution schemes than they were under defined benefits, which they aren't. In fact companies actually contribute quite a bit less under DC, at a time when we need to be contributing more to fund over decreased mortality companies are chipping in less and less. Its just about companies cutting back what they actually have to put in while giving off the appearance that they have a great benefits package. Lower costs for businesses are definitely a factor. But a huge factor are predictable costs. With a pension you have no idea how much money a retired employee is going to cost you. But you can budget 3% matches for every 401k very easily (and get a tax break). Some of that goes back on the employee though. If everyone put 6% of their income to a 401k, employer costs would be higher, maybe closer to what they spent on old school pension contributions. As it stands a lot of companies have to opt-in workers into rudimentary retirement accounts because people won't do it on their own. kazr posted:you think heart attack rates are going to go down in the next 20 years? lol More people survive heart attacks now. Yeah.
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Aug 5, 2016 14:44
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MeatwadIsGod posted:The branch of economists that still try to get taken seriously as a kind of mathematics is truly I was going to say, that study makes perfect sense for 2 reasons. First, all the studies in your early Econ classes are about rational actors, and conditioning students to believe that people are selfish at their core given half a chance so if you're not selfish you're at a disadvantage. Second, there's an almost inordinate ratio of Randroid jackasses in early Econ courses, who would be selected for studies by economics professors writing their Ph.D. papers. Jerking off capitalists is exactly right. My econometrics professor wrote the book on it, that American capitalism is the best system because you have small workshops like Silicon Valley  who can develop new tech, and massive amounts of capital to mass produce it in factories. Best seller. Coincidentally it was a required textbook purchase in every one of his classes but never referenced  It's also important to note that you're considered a Rock God in economics if your market theory explains 15% of behavior in a marketplace. 20% is Nobel prize territory. red19fire has a new favorite as of 15:08 on Aug 5, 2016 |
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Aug 5, 2016 15:05
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bongwizzard posted:Lol, sure, everything is random chance, no point in trying. there are people that try harder than a hundred you and mes combined that never get anywhere in life
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Aug 5, 2016 15:16
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Groovelord Neato posted:there are people that try harder than a hundred you and mes combined that never get anywhere in life Sure, but you are still a pathetic gently caress undeserving of sympathy if you don't try. Without the desire to improve your lot, why bother even living?
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Aug 5, 2016 15:30
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