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Halloween Jack posted:Master P had just released two #1 albums in 1997 and 1998, he'd been on 2 compilations that hit the Top 10 that same year, and would release an album that hit #2 in October. (This is overall Billboard Top 200.) he was Lil' Romeo's dad
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Aug 7, 2016 15:22
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exploding mummy posted:he was Lil' Romeo's dad He has a platinum tank.
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Aug 7, 2016 16:15
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The American Dream posted:He has a platinum tank. I always thought it was a golden tank.
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Aug 7, 2016 19:52
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I remember the announcers doing their big "OHOHO LOOK WHO'S HERE" thing when Sable was on camera, which makes it even funnier if they never had any plans in regard to her
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Aug 7, 2016 20:23
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Louis Theroux did an episode looking into rap culture and visited Master P's home. Master P came to the conclusion that Louis didn't have what it takes to make it in rap, understandably. Louis is 0-2 when it comes to WCW Icons (Sarge being the other, obviously).
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Aug 7, 2016 20:39
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At least Master P was famous. Why did WCW want DJ Ran to do live turntablism at all their shows? Don't they know raaaaaaaap is crap?
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Aug 7, 2016 20:58
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Animal-Mother posted:At least Master P was famous. Why did WCW want DJ Ran to do live turntablism at all their shows? Don't they know raaaaaaaap is crap? To hype up the crowds. DJ Ran was cool.
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Aug 7, 2016 20:59
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MassRafTer posted:To hype up the crowds. DJ Riki Rachtman was cool.
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Aug 7, 2016 21:11
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Animal-Mother posted:Why did WCW want DJ Ran to do live turntablism at all their shows?
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Aug 7, 2016 21:17
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No Limit Records was Cash Money Records before Cash Money were. Basically they filled the gap from Death Row to Cash Money. The less said about Snoop's tenure in No Limit the better, however...
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Aug 7, 2016 21:56
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All this talk about Master P reminds of his No Limit Soldiers stable, particularly Big Swoll and his notable moves according to WikipediaWikipedia posted:Finishing moves
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Aug 7, 2016 23:34
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I'm finding it difficult to understand Bischoff. It seems like he was a smart guy when he started. He had owned multiple businesses with varying degrees of success. He made it to the big leagues as a commentator, which was a job he started doing because he happened to be wearing a suit in the right place at the right time. He was granted a spot to run the number 2 promotion in America. He decided to go head to head with the number one promotion to take some market share. He correctly read ECW's popularity for small flippy guys and brought them onto his show while making it seem like he took a risk he really didn't. He signed up the competition's guys to steal eyeballs and he picked the right storyline to steal from Japan and made it to number 1 for awhile, and if I remember correctly he even turned a profit once. And then he went insane and there were logos on the hood of his car and the set change that would save the company and didn't promote any new guys and storyline that never ended and finger pokes of doom and all the stuff we're talking about. It just seems like a very stark change between Bischoff is competent to Bischoff is stunningly stupid. What happened? Was he just a slick talker that managed to put himself in a position he was way over his head in? Or was his method of success more a matter of throwing anything at a wall and seeing if it sticks and he was exposed once they stopped sticking? Or were his bad decisions mostly made from worrying about the competition instead of the product and he would've run just fine if he pretended he was the only game in town? Cocaine is an acceptable answer.
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Aug 8, 2016 00:37
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He was an egomaniac who gave up way too much for short term gains and had no long term plan or vision. You have to give him credit for basically inventing the modern weekly wrestling show but with the benefit of hindsight he looks like an extraordinarily bad gambler playing with a blank checkbook
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Aug 8, 2016 00:44
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The problem was, Bischoff became buddies with guys like Hogan and Nash so he could pretend to be super cool. So his decision making got wrapped up in making sure his buddies were happy so he could continue to "be cool". At least that's my take on all the things I've read over the years.
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Aug 8, 2016 00:53
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Needs More Ditka posted:I'm finding it difficult to understand Bischoff. It seems like he was a smart guy when he started. He had owned multiple businesses with varying degrees of success. He made it to the big leagues as a commentator, which was a job he started doing because he happened to be wearing a suit in the right place at the right time. He was granted a spot to run the number 2 promotion in America. He decided to go head to head with the number one promotion to take some market share. He correctly read ECW's popularity for small flippy guys and brought them onto his show while making it seem like he took a risk he really didn't. He signed up the competition's guys to steal eyeballs and he picked the right storyline to steal from Japan and made it to number 1 for awhile, and if I remember correctly he even turned a profit once. I think Bischoff was a pretty great promoter at the time. Yes, he misfired- Souled Out, the biker rally, Glacier, etc., but he was also injecting new energy into wrestling television that made it actually entertaining to watch, and not in a "oh what's the big show in two months going to be?" sort of way. As far as what went wrong, part of it is probably being too chummy with Hogan and co., but part of it is probably just that he was mentally exhausted by 1998. Being Vince McMahon is an impossible job that slowly drives you insane, and after being a very hands-on VP for the first few years, he took a step back and Nash and company basically booked themselves into the ground without anybody to stop them.
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Aug 8, 2016 01:43
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Needs More Ditka posted:I'm finding it difficult to understand Bischoff. The skills that go into running a large-scale, personality-dependent operation and the skills that get you hired to run that operation are completely different. Bischoff showed up to his Turner meeting with concept art for a new set and the claim that he wouldn't take the job unless it came with a guaranteed Monday night WCW show. His entire run is marked with big, bold moves like that, and he's got the sort of natural charisma that can get someone to go "Yeah, let's pay Ray Lloyd a quarter million dollars to wear a Sub-Zero costume." It started to fail because he didn't have actual management ability. While Vince McMahon was building a stable of backstage management guys who could be trusted to maintain some sort of order, Bischoff never had the ability or inclination to find his own Pat Patterson and Kevin Dunn to assist in keeping the product together.
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Aug 8, 2016 04:16
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Claytor posted:The skills that go into running a large-scale, personality-dependent operation and the skills that get you hired to run that operation are completely different. Bischoff showed up to his Turner meeting with concept art for a new set and the claim that he wouldn't take the job unless it came with a guaranteed Monday night WCW show. His entire run is marked with big, bold moves like that, and he's got the sort of natural charisma that can get someone to go "Yeah, let's pay Ray Lloyd a quarter million dollars to wear a Sub-Zero costume." It started to fail because he didn't have actual management ability. While Vince McMahon was building a stable of backstage management guys who could be trusted to maintain some sort of order, Bischoff never had the ability or inclination to find his own Pat Patterson and Kevin Dunn to assist in keeping the product together. That isn't how Nitro came about at all. Bischoff came to power years before Nitro came about and the idea to do a Monday Night show came from Turner's mouth after Bischoff tried to explain Saturday Night's timeslot wasn't as good as Raw's.
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Aug 8, 2016 04:21
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MassRafTer posted:That isn't how Nitro came about at all. Bischoff came to power years before Nitro came about and the idea to do a Monday Night show came from Turner's mouth after Bischoff tried to explain Saturday Night's timeslot wasn't as good as Raw's. I'm familiar with the story about Bischoff getting in Turner's ear about Saturday not being competitive with Raw, but I'd thought that his pitch for what to do with a Monday show was what had gotten him the position he had. While I believe you when you say that isn't what happened, I almost get the impression that someone out there has spent the last couple of decades pushing some sort of "Bischoff as architect of Nitro" narrative.
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Aug 8, 2016 04:38
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Claytor posted:I almost get the impression that someone out there has spent the last couple of decades pushing some sort of "Bischoff as architect of Nitro" narrative. That someone is Eric Bischoff.
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Aug 8, 2016 04:39
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Claytor posted:I'm familiar with the story about Bischoff getting in Turner's ear about Saturday not being competitive with Raw, but I'd thought that his pitch for what to do with a Monday show was what had gotten him the position he had. While I believe you when you say that isn't what happened, I almost get the impression that someone out there has spent the last couple of decades pushing some sort of "Bischoff as architect of Nitro" narrative. Bischoff was definitely the architect of the show, I'm just telling you he didn't go into Turner's office to get the job that way. His first show changing brainstorm was the Disney tapings. Bischoff deserves a lot of credit for Nitro, as does Zane Bresloff. Sullivan too as he booked a lot of it and it was his connections that got all the ECW talent they signed.
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Aug 8, 2016 04:44
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Claytor posted:I'm familiar with the story about Bischoff getting in Turner's ear about Saturday not being competitive with Raw, but I'd thought that his pitch for what to do with a Monday show was what had gotten him the position he had. While I believe you when you say that isn't what happened, I almost get the impression that someone out there has spent the last couple of decades pushing some sort of "Bischoff as architect of Nitro" narrative.
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Aug 8, 2016 05:21
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I'm still mad about Bischoff name dropping Jim Ross last week and criticizing commentators for not knowing the stupid karate names of moves that he insists on using. Every time he says "back leg front kick" I hate him just a little bit more.
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Aug 8, 2016 14:53
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Funkchop posted:I'm still mad about Bischoff name dropping Jim Ross last week and criticizing commentators for not knowing the stupid karate names of moves that he insists on using. Every time he says "back leg front kick" I hate him just a little bit more. Can he at least say the Japanese name That's all I ask
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Aug 8, 2016 15:30
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Eric Bischoff wanting to teach the world to call it a mae-geri would be way more annoying.
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Aug 8, 2016 15:37
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This suddenly gives me an idea where Bischoff signs The Wu-Tang Clan instead of Master P and they go on to have a 'Wu-Tang Tiger Style Kung-Fu' vs Karate angle against the Cat and Ray Lloyd. This would obviously be dogshit but the idea of The Cat getting his rear end kicked by newest member of the Wu-Tang Clan Scott Norton would fill me with glee. Road wild is a six man match between Lloyd, Cat and Bischoff against Norton and the Killah Beez (Jim Brunzell and B. Brian Blair obviously). ChrisBTY fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Aug 8, 2016 |
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Aug 8, 2016 16:01
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I feel like when the WWF started to not just rebound but consistently kick WCW's rear end that Bischoff really panicked. There's a real sense of throwing stuff at the wall (and trying to imitate the insanity of the Attitude era)- he doubles down on big celebrity guest spots that don't work and concerts and the shows just get messier and messier. And as said above he was way too much "part of the crowd" with Nash, Hogan, etc. I can appreciate that it was hard to say no to them to begin with because of a very real threat that they could go back to the competition (especially when WWF had money again), hence creative control and so on, but he didn't even recognize a problem. A bit of Founder's Syndrome sets in too. The WCW became the top promotion based on spectacle and big stars from the 80s, so we're just gonna keep doing that until it works again.
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Aug 8, 2016 17:31
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Bischoff was obsessed with "beating" the WWF, particularly in the ratings, and as time went on he became increasingly desperate to do so. He threw away a lot of money matches (and just a lot of money) trying to boost Nitro's ratings.
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Aug 8, 2016 17:38
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Halloween Jack posted:Bischoff was obsessed with "beating" the WWF, particularly in the ratings, and as time went on he became increasingly desperate to do so. He threw away a lot of money matches (and just a lot of money) trying to boost Nitro's ratings. To me the best part of his desperation was openly challenging Vince to a shoot fight on PPV in the hopes of some publicity. Vince outright ignoring him must've eaten away at him so badly
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Aug 8, 2016 18:02
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Funkchop posted:To me the best part of his desperation was openly challenging Vince to a shoot fight on PPV in the hopes of some publicity. Vince outright ignoring him must've eaten away at him so badly He didn't completely ignore him. McDevitt sent a cease & desist letter about advertising the Bischoff/McMahon match as though it was actually happening. I think Eric read the letter out loud during a Nitro or something.
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Aug 8, 2016 18:22
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Oh right lol. I think there was a part in Death of WCW about that, where they had to try and explain to a judge why advertising the match by saying "there's no way Vince will show up!" meant that they were telling the audience he was definitely going to show up.
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Aug 8, 2016 18:33
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McMahon's letter also implied he'd be happy to fight in a gym or a parking lot somewhere, just not on a WCW show. The whole thing was worth it because we got to see Bischoff come down to the ring dressed like a bad guy from Final Fight, punching at the camera like a UFC fighter, just to have a ref do a 3-count in an empty ring.
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Aug 8, 2016 18:34
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Halloween Jack posted:McMahon's letter also implied he'd be happy to fight in a gym or a parking lot somewhere, just not on a WCW show. Not a three count, Bischoff led the ref and the crowd in a count out. Michael Buffer joined in.
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Aug 8, 2016 18:45
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I hope Buffer charged them a premium for that
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Aug 8, 2016 19:14
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oatgan posted:He was an egomaniac who gave up way too much for short term gains and had no long term plan or vision. You have to give him credit for basically inventing the modern weekly wrestling show but with the benefit of hindsight he looks like an extraordinarily bad gambler playing with a blank checkbook Old timers would argue Bill Watts invented weekly episodic wrestling. I believe Bischoff was the first to use overruns as a plot device, however. coconono fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Aug 8, 2016 |
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Aug 8, 2016 20:09
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Halloween Jack posted:Bischoff was obsessed with "beating" the WWF, particularly in the ratings, and as time went on he became increasingly desperate to do so. He threw away a lot of money matches (and just a lot of money) trying to boost Nitro's ratings. A lot of people like to harp on all the money WCW lost by "giving away" big matches, but WCW was in a different position than Vince because they were literally owned by a media company/television station and increased ratings meant better sponsorship and a happier network. That doesn't excuse general idiocy of things like never doing Goldberg/Hogan II. Totally agree on the failure to delegate, too. As much as everyone seems to hate Kevin Dunn, Vince has a network of guys below him that he can trust, even as he micro-manages day-to-day stuff. Eric didn't do nearly as good a job doing that. I think that people that whine about Bischoff not doing anything to keep egos in check ignore that guys like Hogan made way more than him and had the power to get him fired if he didn't keep him happy.
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Aug 8, 2016 20:47
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Unfortunately, Goldberg Hogan 2 only had one possible ending and it would not have been good for the continuing fortunes of the company.
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Aug 9, 2016 05:52
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Bischoff is the wrestling equivalent of that guy in your town who owns a company that does car detailing and stereos. He makes a lot of money, employs all his idiot sons and has a nice house, but you also have to wonder why he drives everywhere in his lowrider durango that has bitchin' green flames all over it and a giant stereo system mounted in the back. Just because a person is successful and makes some good decisions monetarily when running a company doesn't mean they have good taste. If you were getting paid millions of dollars to be able to portray yourself on a program with millions of viewers and basically unlimited budget, do you think you could resist living out all your dumb 8 year old boy fantasies on someone elses dime? Because I'm not sure I could TBH.
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Aug 9, 2016 06:23
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I like that Eric Bischoff, a non wrestler, worked a better match at Starrcade 97 than the two guys in the main event
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Aug 9, 2016 08:54
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laz0rbeak posted:A lot of people like to harp on all the money WCW lost by "giving away" big matches, but WCW was in a different position than Vince because they were literally owned by a media company/television station and increased ratings meant better sponsorship and a happier network. That doesn't excuse general idiocy of things like never doing Goldberg/Hogan II. Regarding Bischoff as manager, I agree completely. Yes, Hogan had a lot of power, but whose idea was it to acquire him? He was completely unable to ride herd on the main eventers or organize a well-run booking committee. (Whose decision was it to put Nash on the book, anyway?)
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Aug 9, 2016 14:14
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The James Brown appearance was on a PPV, which makes even less sense. You can say "Hey, James Brown is on Nitro!" and people can change the channel. Nobody is going to spend $30 halfway through a live PPV because James Brown showed up.
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Aug 9, 2016 14:20
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