|
WampaLord posted:Institution theory people, answer me this, and please do it without saying "Well, she's actually saying something else and Elliot's brain is filtering it to what we hear." She didn't. The fact that they're being so careful with how they mention things in Elliot's routine is another thing that speaks to the theory. When the therapist asks about his mom it's half-way in a conversation we're not privy too, she says "Why your mom?" So it's plausible that the lead in to that was Elliot saying that he sees his nurse as his mom, not that he's living with his mom. Also I understand that it's probably not that realistic that Ray had an inmate in an institution roughed up, but this is TV's idea and the general public's idea of an institution. WampaLord posted:Why would she call his nurse a she-devil? It's been established she hates their mom, now you're claiming she hates his nurse for no reason? Because Elliot told her or maybe she gets the sense that the nurse is kind of a bitch?
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 15:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 05:25 |
|
|
Elias_Maluco posted:I dont like institution theory because I dont like the idea this show needs a mind blow "fight club like" reveal each season That's the main reason I dislike the theory. The show is good enough without doing it. Having him be in a literal institution, I think, doesn't really add much to the actual story of this season. It would be just a twist for the sake of post-LOST twists. Also, I hope next season is a little less slow-moving. I appreciate it here but it's starting to wear on me. Half the season has been spent with Elliot more or less just rehashing the same "I am Mr. Robot/I am not Mr. Robot" argument that should have been put to rest in episode 1, if not last season. I have faith in the showrunner and writers, though.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 15:56
|
|
|
If Elliot moved back in with his mom then why haven't we seen him interact with her in any meaningful way? She's been established as outspoken and still talks negatively about his father, yet we haven't heard her say anything to Elliot, let alone something personal.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 16:03
|
|
|
When did he say there would be things he's keeping from us? Maybe being somewhere other than home is one of them
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 16:32
|
|
|
Shoren posted:If Elliot moved back in with his mom then why haven't we seen him interact with her in any meaningful way? She's been established as outspoken and still talks negatively about his father, yet we haven't heard her say anything to Elliot, let alone something personal. His mother doesn't exist and he's living in an empty house.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 17:10
|
|
|
precision posted:His mother doesn't exist and he's living in an empty house. That actually makes some sense. It would explain why he never eats with her
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 17:14
|
|
|
A lot of things seem to support the fact that he's institutionalized, but as far as I'm concerned: if that's the case, it absolutely must be self-imposed. Darlene and Gideon have asked him to help. He can't do that if he's stuck there. It does make sense that his exile would be self-imposed: the dude lost a few days, has no idea what happened. He's fought with Mr. Robot to find out. I think this season has done well to show that some things are 'off' about his living arrangement. The dark rooms. The lack of sunlight. The house with sparse decoration. It's easier to explain the house itself, but more difficult to explain the diner and the park. The diner isn't set like a hospital cafeteria, just a cheap diner. Granted: Ray's office is very dimly lit. So are the support group meetings. I don't know how this stuff works. Would a group home be an option for someone going through this? It would explain how he's able to get out.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 17:26
|
|
|
I'm not sure it would be self imposed. I am wondering if he actually shot himself in the head after he went forward with the plan. Or after he couldn't stop Tyrell from executing the plan. He could be in semi-vegetative state. The reason he eats all meals with his friend and all their conversations are one-way is because that's the guy who feeds him. The basketball games are on the tv. The scene with the funnel is very feeding-tube-esque. But this doesn't line up with like half the events so w/e. edit: Or some of that could be the case without him being in an instituion. If he shot himself and lived, Tyrell could have saved him for some reason. He could physically be bedridden in his mothers house being looked after by shady underworld doctors poo poo that Tyrell put there to keep him alive. Visits from Darlene and his mother, and even Joanna could be real. Ray could be completely real, because now it's not an institution. Also unrelated, but I can't help but think that Tyrell's name is a blade-runner reference. Snak fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Aug 8, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 17:34
|
|
|
Kawasaki Nun posted:Don't mind me doc, just bringing three of my unlicensed friends in here to help me move some people around. They're def not hired muscle I got off of my Silk Road website. There's usually only one, maybe two people on at night for the staff of a halfway house or institution. It wouldn't be that hard if you were the guy on duty to sneak in some people.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 17:37
|
|
|
Elliot absolutely didn't want to help Ray with his shady business, but still did it just to get access to a computer. Any version of reality in which he could access a computer without having to help Ray (living with his mom, living in an empty house, halfway house) just don't seem to make any sense.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 17:37
|
|
|
seaborgium posted:There's usually only one, maybe two people on at night for the staff of a halfway house or institution. It wouldn't be that hard if you were the guy on duty to sneak in some people. There's security cameras, though.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 17:38
|
|
|
WampaLord posted:There's security cameras, though. What if Ray's the head of security or something similar? Probably knows where there are blindspots, at least.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 17:41
|
|
|
uncertainty posted:Elliot absolutely didn't want to help Ray with his shady business, but still did it just to get access to a computer. I mean, Elliot seemed genuinely clueless how bad Ray's business was. He seemed surprised by each layer of shadiness. First he was surprised when the muscle showed up, then he was surprised that the old IT guy "quit" under shady circumstances. I think he was being genuinely naive at the beginning of helping Ray.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 17:42
|
|
|
Snak posted:I'm not sure it would be self imposed. I am wondering if he actually shot himself in the head Why would he shoot himself? Why would people come to him asking for help if he's in a semi-vegitative state/needs breathing help/etc. ?
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 18:09
|
|
|
Doctor Butts posted:Why would he shoot himself? Well, Mr. Robot keeps shooting him in the head/he keeps thinking the has a bullet-wound in his head. Also he said something to the effect of "oblivion is always the answer". Its not impossible that he tried to kill Mr. Robot Tyler Durdon style. As for the second part: I don't really know. Most of these ideas are ones that I formed during the first few episodes and dont really account for Ray at all. I'm not sure that I go in for the whole Institution theory, but there are clearly some things that are either Elliot's delusions or that hr is obfuscating from us. So I'm just spitballing about what they could be 
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 18:32
|
|
|
Doctor Butts posted:Why would he shoot himself? It makes no sense and would be beyond stupid. Its like "it was all a dream!!" again but the whole loving season I also think Elliot really wanted to help Ray, cause Ray helped him. But at same time, it seems like he did needed access to a computer and had no other way, otherwise why would he do his thing in Ray's office, where he had to hide it from the thug guy, instead of going to a lan house or to fsociety hideout or Angela's house or something
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 18:36
|
|
|
Yeah I'm just trying to piece together possible pictures from the evidence. The last thing we see before either Elliot, Mr. Robot, or Tyrell executed the hack is Elliot reaching for the gun in the popcorn machine. We know the FBI found a single shell casing at the arcade, so I think it's safe to assume that the gun was fired at least once there. The options for this are basically Elliot/Mr. Robot shoots Tyrell, Tyrell shoots Elliot, Elliot shoots Mr. Robot, or Mr. Robot shoots Elliot. The show is essentially setting us up to believe that Mr. Robot/Elliot shot Tyrell. But Elliot's the one who thinks he has a bullet-wound in his head, and Mr. Robot shoots him in the delusions we see. We also know from the scene of Elliot choking Mr. Robot that he really is attacking himself when he attacks Mr. Robot. So I'm not saying it would be great if Elliot was in a coma or something equally stupid, but I definitely thinks it's possible he took a non-fatal bullet to the head. Maybe it actually just grazed him. Who knows.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 19:01
|
|
|
Elliot is in an institution. Otherwise, he wouldn't have worked with Ray. Ray is his only access to a terminal/computer. If it was a halfway house or just his regular house, he could have just gone anywhere he wanted to hack and what not.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 19:30
|
|
|
Benson Cunningham posted:Elliot is in an institution. Otherwise, he wouldn't have worked with Ray. I've been thinking this whole time that his "inability" to get to a terminal was actually his way of protecting himself and f-society. He doesn't trust Mr. Robot/himself with a terminal. By agreeing to help Ray, he created a loophole; he HAD to be at a terminal to do that. I don't know. This loving show, etc.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 19:54
|
|
|
I thought that he explicitly told us that he wasn't allowing Mr. Robot to access computers because he couldn't be trusted.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 19:59
|
|
|
Snak posted:I thought that he explicitly told us that he wasn't allowing Mr. Robot to access computers because he couldn't be trusted. well, that was before he decided to help against the FBI But I like precision theory above
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 20:02
|
|
|
Snak posted:I thought that he explicitly told us that he wasn't allowing Mr. Robot to access computers because he couldn't be trusted. He was doing that. But then he changed his mind and did access a computer terminal. The only reason it would be Ray's and he would get into that whole poo poo show would be if he had no other options.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 20:02
|
|
|
Unless he was literally helping Ray because Ray helped him and he thought they were friends.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 20:04
|
|
|
Snak posted:Unless he was literally helping Ray because Ray helped him and he thought they were friends.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 20:12
|
|
|
Snak posted:I mean, Elliot seemed genuinely clueless how bad Ray's business was. He seemed surprised by each layer of shadiness. First he was surprised when the muscle showed up, then he was surprised that the old IT guy "quit" under shady circumstances. I think he was being genuinely naive at the beginning of helping Ray. I thought he didn't trust him before, but I realize my memory may be really biased. I'll rewatch the first few episodes to see if I indeed made that early distrust up.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 20:13
|
|
|
Paperhouse posted:Friends probably don't hack the FBI from their friend's computer. They also probably don't do it under the watchful eye of some security guy unless there is no other option He only wrote the malware, he dindt hacked the FBI there (as far as I understood) But yeah, if he had another computer to use, why do it there with a thug watching over his shoulder
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 20:37
|
|
|
Grem posted:I'd like to hear a doubter of the institution theory explain the door slam before Ellitot meeting Gideon at "home" and the basketball hitting an invisible chain link fence, both from the first episode of this season. I think it's perfectly plausible that all the little hints we've gotten are edits by Eliot himself, deliberately to gently caress with us the audience. Everything we see is filtered through Elliot. This turns quickly into a wine in front of me sort of problem with reverse-triple-blinds but at the end of the day that's the thing about unreliable narrators -- you can't even expect them to lie reliably. I think the institution theory is more plausible, but it's also not what I hope is happening when all is said and done. Basically: precision posted:The show is good enough without doing it. Having him be in a literal institution, I think, doesn't really add much to the actual story of this season. It would be just a twist for the sake of post-LOST twists. If there does turn out to be an institutional twist, that means next season (if there is one) everyone will go in assuming that there will be some sort of shenanigans because that's what this show does. Predictable unpredictability. If he's in a halfway house / institution / whatever it feels like obfuscation for no reason. I suppose that applies to the above theory as well but we're back to wine in front of me and I think playing it straight would be the better 'twist.' E: This is also through the lens of a internet person reading boards where people dissect shows all day. Joe viewer probably isn't even aware of the institution theory. But then again the show is self-aware enough to know that people like us exist so maybe they poisoned the wine in front of us instead, hm. NmareBfly fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Aug 8, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 20:48
|
|
|
Either way I do feel like this next episode will finally answer that question. I can totally see Elliot saying "What, did you think I was in a mental hospital? I can see you, posting your little theories online."
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 21:03
|
|
|
I'm beginning to think that Elliott doesn't like us like he used to anymore.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 21:06
|
|
|
They've also waited too long on the Tyrell reveal for me to give a poo poo if he is alive or not. I just don't care about his character one way or the other now.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 21:15
|
|
|
Mr. Powers posted:I'm beginning to think that Elliott doesn't like us like he used to anymore. He's said a few times that he doesn't trust us and he was pretty pissed we didn't tell him about his dad!
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 21:31
|
|
|
Doesn't matter that Tyrell is gone, the new deuteragonist is better. I'm really surprised they managed to introduce a new sympathetic character (an antagonist, even) in the second season of an extremely character-focused drama. Maybe as a goon I just relate too well with a socially reclusive mid-tier professional. Similarly I'm baffled that Angela's arc has worked out the way it has, and they've pulled it off without it feeling forced or out of character. For me it works because she's the crystallization of the sort of unethical small-scale decisions we make every day in our lives for our own comfort and benefit. She's gone from fighting the good fight to working for the bad guys and all it took was a fat paycheck, a nice apartment and the feeling that you have some inkling of influence over the world. I'd work for Evil Corp too.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 21:32
|
|
|
I'm relatively certain that before the end of the season Angela will be a True Believer. She already acts as if she is anyway. She's like 95% lizard person at this point.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 21:38
|
|
|
precision posted:I can totally see Elliot saying "What, did you think I was in a mental hospital? I can see you, posting your little theories online." Kinda but I don't know the 'us' in-universe is necessarily us-the-TV-viewers. If he mentions things like us posting online specifically, it breaks the fourth wall in a different way than just addressing us directly -- as of now I think 'us' is just defined as a third, passive personality or some part of his subconscious alongside Mr. Robot's active one. In principle though yeah I want this to be what we get. E: typo NmareBfly fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Aug 8, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 21:41
|
|
|
Mr. Powers posted:I'm beginning to think that Elliott doesn't like us like he used to anymore. He still likes "us", he just doesn't trust us. He hides us from his therapist and sets a place for us in his idealized future, so he still cares.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 21:43
|
|
|
NmareBfly posted:Kinda but I don't the the 'us' in-universe is necessarily us-the-TV-viewers. Yeah, it's hard to say. I still don't know what the "attacking the TV camera" was about if he's not literally talking to TV viewers.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 22:02
|
|
|
precision posted:I'm relatively certain that before the end of the season Angela will be a True Believer. She already acts as if she is anyway. She's like 95% lizard person at this point. She already is, I'd say. She's only helping with the feds because she's on the hook too. There will be a moment where she puts Evil Corp ahead of Darlene and Elliot.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 22:05
|
|
|
I'm still waiting for an episode where "we" talk back.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 22:22
|
|
|
Grem posted:He's said a few times that he doesn't trust us and he was pretty pissed we didn't tell him about his dad! He blamed us for Darlene too. That wasn't our fault Elliot! We didn't know! 
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 22:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 05:25 |
|
|
The only thing I'm exercising my brain about is why Darlene and the rest of fsociety don't seem that interested in the fact that one of the rising superstar executives at Evil Corp. was implicated in their hack, (possibly) recorded a propaganda video in their name, then dropped off the face of the earth. I know they have a lot on their plate, but it is a little concerning.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2016 00:15
|
|
