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paradoxGentleman
Dec 10, 2013

wheres the jester, I could do with some pointless nonsense right about now

Can someone remind me what has monte cook accomplished to be considered a tg personality
I know he did a world of darkness thing, what was up with that?

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NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






Kwyndig posted:

And ones are sill automatic failures!

In unrelated health news, never get a uretral stent if you can help it. I've been peeing blood and in pain since Friday, and that's considered a best case scenario for my situation.

So drink plenty of water kiddos.
So far as I've gathered from my father's hospital stories (sans confidential details) and the Darwin Awards, there are a bunch of delicate structures involved in the excretory system that are very difficult to, well, put back together the same way. Hopefully you recover in some fashion or another!

Edit:

paradoxGentleman posted:

Can someone remind me what has monte cook accomplished to be considered a tg personality
I know he did a world of darkness thing, what was up with that?
His first work was with Rolemaster back in the 90's. But he was primarily known for being one of the lead designers for D&D 3.0, and then (after designing some more 3.0 books for WotC) going on write some reputable third-party books for 3.x. I say "reputable" but not "mechanically sound", mind you, because Monte's always been an ideas guy who has a sketchy grasp on good mechanical design. His work was still better than most of the shovelware out there, but the man never really realized his culpability in the martial-caster disparity.

NGDBSS fucked around with this message at 10:27 on Aug 15, 2016

My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010

paradoxGentleman posted:

Can someone remind me what has monte cook accomplished to be considered a tg personality
Being hired as lead designer for D&D 5e, then resigning from the job comes to mind for me, and I'm sure there was some quotable stuff in his Legends & Lore columns.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
Cook got started on the industry editing Rolemaster supplements, and then did a number of AD&D 2e adventure modules and Planescape supplements for TSR.

Most of his cred comes from being on the senior design team for D&D 3rd Edition. During the d20 era he also got some acclaim for Ptolus, a huge setting book set entirely within a sprawling city that was based upon his experiences running a playtest campaign for 3rd Edition.

He was on the design team for D&D 5th Edition, but left partway through. It's suspected, but never been confirmed, that there were some core disagreements between him and Mearls, and Mearls got his way.

He's "popular" partially because the bar to become a "personality" in the RPG industry just isn't that high.

ProfessorCirno
Feb 17, 2011

The strongest! The smartest!
The rightest!
He is also somewhat fanatically obsessed with using the d20 and has the biggest boner in the entire industry for wizards, like, bigger then anyone in the entire industry.

He is also the moon.

But for the most part, he more or less became the "face" of 3e and more or less continues to live off that fame to this day.

EDIT: On these forums, his bigger claim to fame is talking big poo poo about INNOVATING THE INDUSTRY and then rolling out mechanics that are decades old and claiming he totally invented them, and then doing them real lovely because he's terrified of leaving his d20/D&D/simulationist design fetish behind.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

gradenko_2000 posted:

Most of his cred comes from being on the senior design team for D&D 3rd Edition.

He also did freelance work for 3e after leaving WotC like Book of Vile Darkness or Ghostwalk, the latter of which may be the most obscure D&D setting now.

gradenko_2000 posted:

He's "popular" partially because the bar to become a "personality" in the RPG industry just isn't that high.

He's legit good at self promotion and bombast. A lot of folks in the industry try for it, but he's actually good at it.

My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010

ProfessorCirno posted:

EDIT: On these forums, his bigger claim to fame is talking big poo poo about INNOVATING THE INDUSTRY and then rolling out mechanics that are decades old and claiming he totally invented them, and then doing them real lovely because he's terrified of leaving his d20/D&D/simulationist design fetish behind.
That's right, wasn't he the one who wrote a long column about a new gameplay mechanic, still in early stages but promising as an idea, and you could call it suchandsuch, and it was clearly a very basic 4E mechanic down to the name?

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

My Lovely Horse posted:

That's right, wasn't he the one who wrote a long column about a new gameplay mechanic, still in early stages but promising as an idea, and you could call it suchandsuch, and it was clearly a very basic 4E mechanic down to the name?

The most famous example was Passive Perception. Which wasn't even a 4th edition thing so much as a 3rd edition thing:

quote:

Automatic Searches: Dungeon adventures can be grindingly slow if the PCs make Search checks to scour every last inch of the place. You can keep things moving along by assuming that, as experienced adventurers, the party searches as it travels unless circumstances dictate otherwise. The searching specialist (usually the rogue) simply takes 10 as the PCs explore the dungeon, which is enough to reveal basic traps, hiding places, and obstacles. But never abuse this arrangement by jacking up the Search DCs of traps and hidden items. If the players start to suspect they are missing things, their characters will just revert to frequent Search checks. Keep high-DC checks for locations where the PCs would expect important things to be well hidden—and well defended.

Alternatively, use logic in the placement of your traps (see Chapter 6 for more about trap philosophy). Just as a PC isn’t likely to fill his home with pitfalls and spring-loaded arrows, so too do dungeon dwellers keep their living areas easy to get around in. Reserve traps for defending places ordinary denizens aren’t likely to go, such as inside a treasure vault, or in front of defensive emplacements. The PCs won’t have to waste time looking for traps in mundane locations. Springing an unexpected trap can be fun—but avoid the temptation to do it more than rarely, or constant searching will again become the default.

That's from page 92 of the Dungeonscape 3.5e supplement

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

It's fine.
Don't worry about it.

My Lovely Horse posted:

That's right, wasn't he the one who wrote a long column about a new gameplay mechanic, still in early stages but promising as an idea, and you could call it suchandsuch, and it was clearly a very basic 4E mechanic down to the name?

He is also famous for trying to justify the awful discrepancies in feat choices in 3e (toughness vs power attack) as intentionally offering "trap options" for inexperienced players. There was also a ramble in there about timmy cards in MtG to support his thesis which completely missed the point of timmy cards. And yeah like Cirno said he's still caught very much in the all-powerful wizards playing alongside "realistic" fighters dichotomy of 3e. There's a giant power gap between Numenara's spell casters and melee fighters; like the casters getting time control powers around the same time the meleers get "oooh look, you can stab someone with a spear and then also smack them with the haft!"

Numenara was also where he decided to reinvent the death spiral!

quote:

I’m a dreamer. I’ve had a lot of dreams. But for twenty years, two dreams of mine have stuck with me, no
matter what else I was doing or what I was working on. Projects came and went, but these two dreams
always hovered in the background.

The first was a roleplaying game system where players got to decide how much effort they wanted to put into
any given action, and that decision would help determine whether their action would succeed or fail. This would
be a simple but elegant system where sustained damage and physical exertion drew from the same resource (so
as you became wounded, you could do less, and as you became exhausted, you were easier to take down). Where
your willpower and your mental “power points” were the same thing, and as you drew on your mental resources,
your ability to stave off mental attacks waned. And where it was all so integrated into the character that it was easy
to process and keep track of. But most of all, I dreamed of a game system that was designed from the ground up
to be played the way people actually played games, and to be run the way that game masters really ran them.

The second dream that stuck with me was a world that fused science fiction and fantasy, but not in the usual
mixed-genre sort of way. Instead, it was a place that felt like fantasy but was actually science fiction. Or perhaps it
felt like science fiction but was actually fantasy. Could I achieve both at once? The well-known quote from Sir Arthur
C. Clarke that “any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic” seemed to lie at the heart of
this concept. In my mind, I envisioned strangely garbed priests chanting well-rehearsed prayers and invocations,
using sacred instruments and making precise gestures, but then we realize that the instruments are technological
in nature, and some of the gestures are actually fingers playing over buttons or sections of a touchscreen...

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
On the one hand, Ptolus did sort of illustrate how Cook had a fairly good understanding of what it meant to play in 3rd Edition, and what a world taken to that system's logical conclusions would look like.

For example, the high-level dungeon's description of its walls and environs is very "Wizard-proofed":

quote:

Powerful dweomers infuse Jabel Shammar, making it impossible for mortal magic to affect or damage the outer walls in any way, including bypassing them with teleport, incorporeality, or divination spells like scrying. Using a spell like commune to find out anything about the interior is also impossible—even the gods cannot look inside. This effect is only one-way, from the outside in. Thus, one can teleport out of a tower or scry someone in Ptolus from within the confines of the fortress.

The outer walls and doors remain similarly immune to brute force; they cannot be harmed physically. None of this affects summoning creatures into the fortress by forces or casters within the fortress. Summoning something out of Jabel Shammar is impossible, though, as is summoning something into the fortress when the summoner stands outside its walls.

None of this is true of the interior walls, which have their own unique characteristics in each tower. However, note that no walls, ceilings, or floors in Jabel Shammar (except in the sub-levels) are actually stone, although most appear to be. Thus, spells like passwall, stone shape, and phase door do not work on them.

Each individual tower is distinct from the others in this regard. One cannot teleport or scry, for example, from the interior of one tower to another, although from one room to another in the same tower such magic functions normally.

Unless stated otherwise, doors are made of adamantine and are one inch thick. They have a hardness of 20, 40 hit points, and a break DC of 35. They are not locked unless so stated in the individual locale descriptions.

Windows in the outer walls are opaque black from the outside and function the same as the walls they are set into. However, a pervasive magic keeps all chambers in the towers (except the dungeons) lit in a shadowy illumination. No spell, item, or effect short of the direct intervention of a deity can brighten the lighting here. Darkness spells can make it darker, however.

Unless otherwise stated in this chapter, assume that all magical effects of the fortress of Jabel Shammar have a caster level of 25th for the purposes of dispel magic and spell resistance. The Dread One was incredibly powerful.

On the other hand, if he was aware of all that, and still believed that Wizards and Clerics and Druids were fine and dandy existing in the same gameplay space as Fighters, well ...

quote:

While classes like rogues are tailor-made for urban adventuring, DMs will discover that spellcasters truly shine in city adventures, which usually give the players far more control over when and where they will face encounters. This means that spellcasters are more likely to expend their resources all at once rather than conserving them. Urban adventures, as opposed to dungeon adventures, are far less likely to have multiple dangerous encounters in rapid succession in one day.

The strength of fighters, rogues, barbarians, and so forth is that they have no expendable resource; a fighter can swing his sword as many times as he wishes over the course of one day, and as long as his hit point total doesn’t get too low, he can handle many encounters, one after another, without difficulty. The fact that this kind of adventuring does not happen often in a city virtually negates this strength, however.

The DM needs to remain aware of this issue. Occasionally creating urban adventures with multiple encounters, or mixing in more dungeon-style scenarios with the urban adventures, helps restore balance. Some DMs may want to offer treasure that gives the “nonexpendable resource” classes interesting, nonstandard abilities. For example, say the fighter’s cool magic sword is made of stone and can cast wall of stone once per day. Now the fighter can take advantage of the same situational benefits (fewer encounters) as the group’s spellcasters, even if in a small way.

He gets so loving close: Fighters don't have an expendable resource (and he even says it in a way that's straight out of grogs.txt), but watch out, they might run out of HP ... but that isn't an an expendable resource because :psyduck:

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Is there anything to prevent the old trick of "let's just take the doors off the hinges and carry them out"?

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!
Presumably the hinges aren't on the exterior.

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

It's fine.
Don't worry about it.

Zereth posted:

Is there anything to prevent the old trick of "let's just take the doors off the hinges and carry them out"?

maybe he adjusted the loot levels of the dungeon to based on the assumption that PCs would do that?

"what's that? you're upset that all you found in the dungeon was a lovely +1 sword? well maybe you should've bothered to steal each of the 10 adamantine doors! they were worth 489,000 gp apiece, you know." :smugwizard:

gradenko_2000 posted:

On the one hand, Ptolus did sort of illustrate how Cook had a fairly good understanding of what it meant to play in 3rd Edition, and what a world taken to that system's logical conclusions would look like.

For example, the high-level dungeon's description of its walls and environs is very "Wizard-proofed":

also maybe I'm missing something here but what stops a wizard player from getting frustrated that they can't use any useful spells and firing off disintegration rays at all the walls?

Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Aug 15, 2016

RocknRollaAyatollah
Nov 26, 2008

Lipstick Apathy
Monte Cook made the worst version of the World of Darkness to date. It's the equivalent of the XBOX 360 Shadowrun game in terms of ports but less than mediocre in execution. It's like a combination of STALKER and some lovely setting where vampires, mages, and werewolves are just types of people possessed by demons. I might be wrong about the mages but that's what it came down to. He is incapable of thinking outside of his own box.



This poo poo is ridiculous by the way and probably the $190 price tag.

RocknRollaAyatollah fucked around with this message at 13:38 on Aug 15, 2016

SunAndSpring
Dec 4, 2013
4d10's?! Monte, you're getting dangerously off the rails here.

ProfessorCirno
Feb 17, 2011

The strongest! The smartest!
The rightest!

RocknRollaAyatollah posted:

Monte Cook made the worst version of the World of Darkness to date. It's the equivalent of the XBOX 360 Shadowrun game in terms of ports but less than mediocre in execution. It's like a combination of STALKER and some lovely setting where vampires, mages, and werewolves are just types of people possessed by demons. I might be wrong about the mages but that's what it came down to. He is incapable of thinking outside of his own box.



This poo poo is ridiculous by the way and probably the $190 price tag.

On one hand this is the dumbest looking loving thing possible.

On the other hand...

SunAndSpring posted:

4d10's?! Monte, you're getting dangerously off the rails here.

He's learning.

(watch as you only roll them in pairs. And then add them together.)

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

Monte Cuck

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
TBF 2d10 is still a drat sight less swingy than 1d20.

On an unrelated note: I finally discovered a dice roller that isn't blocked at work. What'd be a nice PBP to run?

long-ass nips Diane
Dec 13, 2010

Breathe.

Classic Traveller

edit: Pendragon

long-ass nips Diane fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Aug 15, 2016

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

RocknRollaAyatollah posted:



This poo poo is ridiculous by the way and probably the $190 price tag.
Good. loving. Lord.

Man, when your RPG has a special card-holding hand statue and a ~secret envelope~, you really need to take a step back and think about what you're doing with your life.

FMguru
Sep 10, 2003

peed on;
sexually

RocknRollaAyatollah posted:

Monte Cook made the worst version of the World of Darkness to date. It's the equivalent of the XBOX 360 Shadowrun game in terms of ports but less than mediocre in execution. It's like a combination of STALKER and some lovely setting where vampires, mages, and werewolves are just types of people possessed by demons. I might be wrong about the mages but that's what it came down to. He is incapable of thinking outside of his own box.
The classic WoD is the real world*, but with vampires and magicians and poo poo doing things just outside most people's view. It's a secret structure overlaying our world, that monsters walk hidden among us and use us a pawns...or fodder.

Monte's Cook's version of the WoD has a giant hellgate open in the Midwest and leave it a blasted ruin** with large groups of vampires, demons, and ghosts wandering around openly and threatening to overrun the world.

It's pretty much the exact opposite of everything that defines the WoD. It might be the most misconceived RPG supplement ever.


* Well, the real world as seen through the lenses of films like Se7en and The Crow.

** How could they tell??!? :stat: :wal:


Evil Mastermind posted:

Good. loving. Lord.

Man, when your RPG has a special card-holding hand statue and a ~secret envelope~, you really need to take a step back and think about what you're doing with your life.
In Cook's defense, he was called a fool when he released his Ptolus campaign setting as a single 900 page book (with excellent production values) for $120 a decade ago, and he sold out his entire stock of those, and quickly too. Plenty of nerds have money and are willing to spend it.

My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010

I call the Fighter, in the Wizard's Tower, with the Candlestick of Darkfire.


e: someone's gonna use the Sooth Deck for coasters before the evening is over.
e2: my group has a medaillon that is given to the person who makes the worst pun until a worse one comes along, as a token of shame or triumph depending on who you ask, and I can't really see a better way to include one.

My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Aug 15, 2016

Haystack
Jan 23, 2005





gradenko_2000 posted:

On an unrelated note: I finally discovered a dice roller that isn't blocked at work. What'd be a nice PBP to run?

Ars Magica

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

Swagger Dagger posted:

edit: Pendragon

Haystack posted:

Ars Magica


THIS!!!

Haystack
Jan 23, 2005





Pendragon Magica

Simian_Prime
Nov 6, 2011

When they passed out body parts in the comics today, I got Cathy's nose and Dick Tracy's private parts.
It's like Cook saw the Cones of Dunshire game from "Parks & Rec." and didn't realize it was intended as parody.

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

Winter is the season of research for the WizardKnights.

BrainParasite
Jan 24, 2003


RocknRollaAyatollah posted:




This poo poo is ridiculous by the way and probably the $190 price tag.

Where are the agriculture credits?

CottonWolf
Jul 20, 2012

Good ideas generator

Evil Mastermind posted:

Good. loving. Lord.

Man, when your RPG has a special card-holding hand statue and a ~secret envelope~, you really need to take a step back and think about what you're doing with your life.

I have a pathological hatred of non-book physical junk, so that's definitely not for me, but you're crazy if you don't think that won't appeal directly to the hoarding nerve-centers of a good proportion of tabletop fans.

It'll fund in less than 24 hours.

long-ass nips Diane
Dec 13, 2010

Breathe.

The Numenera fanbase will fund it really quickly.

paradoxGentleman
Dec 10, 2013

wheres the jester, I could do with some pointless nonsense right about now

gradenko_2000 posted:

TBF 2d10 is still a drat sight less swingy than 1d20.

On an unrelated note: I finally discovered a dice roller that isn't blocked at work. What'd be a nice PBP to run?



For major irony points, I recommend a game that requires no dice rolling, such as Chuubo.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

Oddly enough, Monte posted this article about a week ago: Monte Says: Share the Cost.

quote:

But consider this: what if a game group recognized all the hard work a GM put into prepping a game, teaching the rules, and all the rest, and chipped in to help pay for the games? Or, in some cases what if the non-GMs did some legwork, found a cool new game they wanted to play, bought it together, and presented it as a gift to the GM. Imagine—just imagine—the incentive to plan and run a great game a GM would have if his or her group did such a thing? And imagine the message that sends: “You’re a great GM, and always provide a lot of fun for us. We bought what looks like a cool game. Will you run it for us?” I know I’d be honored if a game group did such a thing for me. And I think I speak for most GMs in that regard.

Now, this can go for adventures, sourcebooks, and accessories as well. Hell, it can go for the pizza and soda and snacks. But honestly, because of that collector mentality that so many gamers have, I can think of no better way to make a meaningful gesture of appreciation to a great GM than to buy (or pay for) the games and materials that help the whole group have fun. It’s a group activity, so why not make it a group expense?

Your GM is worth it.
But I'm sure that's a complete coincidence.

I mean, as a lifelong GM I've never expected my group to pitch in and all buy me a game for me to run for them. But then, very few of the games I run require extra frobbery and such to actually play.

RocknRollaAyatollah
Nov 26, 2008

Lipstick Apathy

Swagger Dagger posted:

The Numenera fanbase will fund it really quickly.

It'll fund within the first 6 hours.

I'm beginning to think Monte Cook is on the Scientology model. In order to reach the next level of gaming, one must spend $190 on a game with a vaguely white supremacist, crypto-fascist name.

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






RocknRollaAyatollah posted:



This poo poo is ridiculous by the way and probably the $190 price tag.
That poo poo is worth, what, $100 maybe? I know that I've purchased board games for that price with more complex parts than this.

Edit: Of course the actual books for the game have a price as well, but unless we're talking about a three-book set with 16 full-color plates in the middle then I still doubt the set is worth anything close to $190.

NGDBSS fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Aug 15, 2016

Haystack
Jan 23, 2005





NGDBSS posted:

That poo poo is worth, what, $100 maybe? I know that I've purchased board games for that price with more complex parts than this.

loving Cthulu Wars was $150 :allears:

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






Haystack posted:

loving Cthulu Wars was $150 :allears:
Hey, if Monte Cook wants to put out a boxed set with a bunch of specialized minis, then more power to him.

Unfortunately what he's instead selling are mostly special pieces of paper.

CottonWolf
Jul 20, 2012

Good ideas generator

I can't even really tell what it is. At first I thought it was a KULT-esque gnostic inspired setting, but it's definitely not anywhere near as dark as KULT.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

NGDBSS posted:

Hey, if Monte Cook wants to put out a boxed set with a bunch of specialized minis, then more power to him.

Unfortunately what he's instead selling are mostly special pieces of paper.
Well, that and the ~experience~ of his game, whatever the hell it's supposed to be.

grassy gnoll
Aug 27, 2006

The pawsting business is tough work.

gradenko_2000 posted:

TBF 2d10 is still a drat sight less swingy than 1d20.

On an unrelated note: I finally discovered a dice roller that isn't blocked at work. What'd be a nice PBP to run?

What is it? Orokos doesn't actually work here, and Invisible Castle's dead, so I'm in the market for something similar.

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gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

grassy gnoll posted:

What is it? Orokos doesn't actually work here, and Invisible Castle's dead, so I'm in the market for something similar.

Reddit, for better or worse: https://www.reddit.com/r/rollme/comments/21j68m/introducing_the_new_rollme_bot/

Me geeking out over it: https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/4xp69g/dd_via_reddit_you_asked_so_lets_make_it_happen/d6i6k8h?context=3

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