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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:The other fix they put in is kind of janky as well. The store is now guaranteed to have at least one key in stock on each floor, but only if you haven't picked up any keys that have randomly dropped. This means that if one does randomly drop, you have to ignore it until you find the store, buy the key(s) there, then go back and pick it up. To discourage this behavior, there is also a character that steals anything that gets left on the ground except for hearts and then vanishes for some asinine reason. You can make him go away by catching him in the act and shooting him but then he just comes back no matter what and it's so stupiddddddddd
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Aug 15, 2016 23:59
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CJacobs posted:To discourage this behavior, there is also a character that steals anything that gets left on the ground except for hearts and then vanishes for some asinine reason. You can make him go away by catching him in the act and shooting him but then he just comes back no matter what and it's so stupiddddddddd Hearts and keys at least. I think armor is exempt as well, but I never have any reason to leave it behind so I'm not sure on that. Would be nice if it would leave ammo as well, since there are a lot of times where ammo will drop on floor one before I've found any weapons and then the rear end in a top hat rat steals it as soon as I enter the next room. Maybe I'm just bitching because I've been playing it a lot recently, but it's frustrating to have a really great game like this get bogged down by so many terrible or outright confusing design decisions. e: Nope, he steals armor as well if you leave it for whatever reason. Only things he doesn't steal are health, keys, blanks, and hegemony credits. NoEyedSquareGuy has a new favorite as of 00:15 on Aug 16, 2016 |
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Aug 16, 2016 00:07
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CJacobs posted:To discourage this behavior, there is also a character that steals anything that gets left on the ground except for hearts and then vanishes for some asinine reason. You can make him go away by catching him in the act and shooting him but then he just comes back no matter what and it's so stupiddddddddd Which is also just so mind loving blowingly stupid. The idea is that you should just keep moving forward rather than trying to min-max your drops, which is a fine position to take. But drops are so rare that you have no choice! Then you take a game that is better in every comparable way, Nuclear Throne -- if an item drops, it's on the field for a very limited amount of time, so you either go get it now or lose it forever. But you also get lots of drops. AND you get a guaranteed weapon and big ammo crate on every level. It's no weird metagamey conditional bullshit like coolness or "hey you might get a key if you haven't picked one up yet hurrr," you just get a weapon on every floor. At least one. You can get lots, if you're lucky, but you always get one. It's not always a good weapon, but it's a roguelite and that's how they work. But at least it's something.
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Aug 16, 2016 00:08
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Walton Simons posted:trle.net might tickle your fancy, there's still a surprisingly active modding scene for the PS1-era games (about half a dozen levels a month) and the best thing is that you don't need to own the original games, they're all self-contained .exes. What what. I never knew such a thing existed. Holy smokes, I've got to check this out. Thanks for the heads up!
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Aug 16, 2016 00:58
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Nuclear throne really is the answer to everything bad about gungeon. It's just such a goddamn shame because gungeon has really cute personality and makes you want to like it Then you get to floor 4 without a single ammo drop and slowly lose to attrition when you are left, quite literally, with a pea shooter. And all the enemies have twice as much health as they did on floor 1. You look at your list of 8 entertaining and wacky guns, all completely empty, and think "yep this sure is a game with some cool guns, that I can use."
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Aug 16, 2016 02:31
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Yeah I bought Gungeon at release but it felt like the only progress I made was unlocking some shop that lets me..buy guns that will maybe show up in the gungeon. great. Bosses have so much health that if you didn't get a good gun you're just gonna be plinking away at it forever.
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Aug 16, 2016 02:37
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RyokoTK posted:It's no weird metagamey conditional bullshit like coolness or "hey you might get a key if you haven't picked one up yet hurrr," you just get a weapon on every floor. There is actually some very polite metagamey bullshit going on- miss the weapon chest twice, get a big fat weapon chest with three current-level weapons; miss the rad canister, get a bigger one; if you're low on health sometimes the rad canister is instead a giant heal. Basically they give you a lot of assistance and a hell of a lot of guaranteed power, then ratchet up the enemy threat level to compensate. Also they made killing the carcasses in the desert mandatory, and since they are very likely to drop weapons you will almost never hit the first boss without something fun to kill him with. Also also the early stages have a high likelihood of spawning enemies that drop absurd amounts of rads, so you're very likely to level fast and feel like this is "a good run" before you hit the meatier challenges. Meanwhile the rainbow chests in Gungeon are so absurdly rare that they might as well not have been included, and they shatter the game's difficulty because it is entirely based on scarcity.
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Aug 16, 2016 04:00
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I don't think there is such a thing as a "bad run" in Nuclear Throne, at least not in the way that there is in Isaac or Gungeon. Not until you're at the skill level where your baseline for a good run is looping twice. If a good run to you is killing L0 Throne 2, you can do it with all sorts of lovely weapons and mutations; simply being alive is enough to make a run good. Which I think is what sets NT apart from most other roguelites. Health is pretty drat common, and good gear is not that hard to find, and you very rarely get screwed into taking bad perks, but you're at best three hits away from death. The entire drat game is a razor's edge. Meanwhile if you play a game like Isaac, screw up and take two dumb hits in the first level, it might not be worth the time to keep playing. I'm sure there are little things meant to normalize the RNG in NT for the sake of quality of life, but it's not really patching holes in bad game design the way that mercy-dropping you one key because the entire floor iced you out is. Any weapon you get out of the box in 1-1 in NT, aside from the Screwdriver, is enough to get to at least Crystal Caves. RyokoTK has a new favorite as of 04:47 on Aug 16, 2016 |
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Aug 16, 2016 04:37
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CJacobs posted:I love Bloodborne and have played what must be several hundred hours of it since buying my PS4, but Yahargul and the Nightmare of Mensis are souring my friend on the game and it's sad to watch. Like all Souls games, they seem to have forgotten how to make videogames halfway through. Instead of balancing things out they plopped in a bunch of repeat enemies that do a million damage and said "there it's fine". If you have less than 30-ish vitality, you die in one hit from basically any attack- two hits if you're lucky. It just sucks because up until Yahargul the game is really good about enemy health vs enemy damage, but right at the end it jumps right the gently caress off a cliff. Generally the game is great about punishing failure in a respectful way but the last 2 main areas are basically Bloodborne telling you to eat poo poo and die trying. On this note, gently caress THE SWAMP POISONOUS SLOW MOVING SWAMP AREAS, they are in every single Souls game.
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Aug 16, 2016 04:46
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Alteisen posted:On this note, gently caress THE SWAMP POISONOUS SLOW MOVING SWAMP AREAS, they are in every single Souls game. Dark Souls 3 gives you toxin swamps.
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Aug 16, 2016 05:01
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Nuebot posted:Dark Souls 3 gives you toxin swamps. They had one in Demon's Souls, but it was a small area at the final boss of a branch. Is it the same this time around? I'm guessing no.
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Aug 16, 2016 05:50
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Gitro posted:They had one in Demon's Souls, but it was a small area at the final boss of a branch. Is it the same this time around? I'm guessing no. They're both fairly small, fortunately, and you technically don't have to go into either (but you'll be missing out on a fair amount of stuff if you skip them so they're not all that optional)
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Aug 16, 2016 07:49
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Toxin in DS3 is thankfully much less worse than Plague in DeS. You can feasibly heal through it.
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Aug 16, 2016 07:55
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Yeah, having your very damaging DoT effect also cut your healing to 25% was maybe not the best choice. Outside of multiplayer there were like 3? places to get hit with it and one of those was a non-respawning black phantom, but still.Qwertycoatl posted:They're both fairly small, fortunately, and you technically don't have to go into either (but you'll be missing out on a fair amount of stuff if you skip them so they're not all that optional) At least that I guess. E.Y.E: Divine Cybermancy is fun and cool but holy hell does it suffer from some bad design as you get further in. The levels are a bit too big and a bit too empty and there's sometimes a major lack of direction. Gunships can and will spawn out of sight, fly up behind you and kill you before you can react. One of the end paths involves a level with all of one enemy in it and I'm pretty sure it's entirely avoidable, but you can easily spend half an hour wondering around trying to find this one dude who's hidden in an out-of-the-way place. Then the final level is a bunch of high health, high armour, high damage dudes who are a massive pain to fight. You have a cool, flexible arsenal and can use maybe 3 or 4 weapons because you absolutely have to have armour piercing if you want to kill them before you've died 3 times. The aim jiggle when you get hit is really obnoxious and can make it impossible to effectively shoot back at whatever's hitting you. There are rear end in a top hat cloaked snipers with a laser sniper rifle (that you can't get) and because they're hitting you continuously it's really hard to kill them if they hit you before you find where they are. Also you have to run through it 3 times to get the real ending but at least it goes pretty fast after you spend the first time levelling/unlocking stuff.
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Aug 16, 2016 11:48
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Enter the Gungeon: The strange thing about Gungeon is that as you continue to play the game, get better and learn how to game the systems they have in place then the problems with ammo and drops start to dry up dramatically without the game itself changing at all. Like first of all the chest quality can be very deceptive, there are some loving amazing weapons in blue and even brown chests, and some pretty bad stuff in Red or Black chests. The mailgun and Sling, both brown chest items, are great at killing bosses, and blue chests have some really good shotguns like the Elephant Gun. I actually think the 'Don't open brown chests' is really misleading advice for newcomers, if you don't have a weapon before the first boss you probably should open a brown chest since almost every gun you'll get out of it is better than you're character's starting weapon and will be a big boon against the boss. Even if you get an item instead some of the brown chest items are very useful like Double Vision or the Cog of Battle. Of the two chests on each floor one will always have a weapon and the other an item, while a boss will always drop a weapon if you haven't picked one up on that floor yet, so use that to your advantage if you're tight on weapons. You should be getting an absolute minimum of one key per floor, the shop will always have one to buy if you haven't already picked up a key on that floor, that means if one appears in a room or secret room you can just leave it there until you find a shop to ensure the shop will have a key too, just don't pick it up until you find that shop. Its a pretty dumb system but its useful to keep in mind for maximum keys. As you get better you might consider going through the secret floors for more stuff. NPCs like Winchester, the Gunsling king and the Lost Adventurer are really useful if you find them, Winchester is probably the most consistent source of Black and Red chests in the game (assuming you can aim) while the other two offer simple challenges that will always give you a reward, I once got the Clone off the king which might be the very best item in the whole game while the adventurer gave me the ridiculously powerful Gunther another time. I know this is a bit cheesy overall, but of all the roguelikes I've played I honestly think Gungeon is the one where you can overcome RNG most easily with simple skill and knowledge, I get hosed over a lot more in Binding of Isaac and FTL. After playing a ton of the game I'm actually really impressed at how few dud guns there are considering the sheer number of them, pretty much everything has a place, like incapacitating tough enemies, Boss killing or dealing with rooms of lots of weak foes. I find I go back to Gungeon a lot more than Nuclear Throne. I poo poo talked Gungeon a lot earlier in this thread in comparison to Throne but when I gave it a second chance I really warmed to it while Throne just got kind of old really quick.
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Aug 16, 2016 11:55
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Please pitch to me a rogue-like as someone who hates rogue-likes, and who only beat FTL by cheating.
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Aug 16, 2016 12:12
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Please pitch to me a rogue-like as someone who hates rogue-likes, and who only beat FTL by cheating. If you like FPS, Ziggurat is basically roguelite Serious Sam. It's not a top-level roguelite but it's fun enough and RNG can't mess with you too badly. As far as shootmans games goes it's very fast and the weapon selection is pretty cool. Alternatively, Crypt of the Necrodancer is a basic rhythm game on top of a basic turn-based dungeon crawler roguelike and it ends up being greater than the sum of its parts.
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Aug 16, 2016 12:45
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Please pitch to me a rogue-like as someone who hates rogue-likes, and who only beat FTL by cheating. I'd try to sell u on downwell but the final level becomes a literal bullet hell and I've only gotten through it once.
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Aug 16, 2016 12:55
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Nuebot posted:Dark Souls 3 gives you toxin swamps. blooming moss clumps are easy to come by in ds3
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Aug 16, 2016 12:56
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Please pitch to me a rogue-like as someone who hates rogue-likes, and who only beat FTL by cheating. Life, permadeath as you've never seen it before!
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Aug 16, 2016 13:11
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Please pitch to me a rogue-like as someone who hates rogue-likes, and who only beat FTL by cheating. Dungeons of Dredmor is a shitload of fun. It was my first real roguelike and it took me a while before I made it off the first floor, but you can make pretty fun characters by combining skills like swordplay, fire magic, and being canadian. The items are all really fun, and the crafting system lets you make cool gear more or less when you want it if you invest in it. Also, using the archeology skill, you can send artifacts you don't want to the Indiana Jones warehouse for experience points.
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Aug 16, 2016 13:22
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Action Tortoise posted:I'd try to sell u on downwell but the final level becomes a literal bullet hell and I've only gotten through it once.
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Aug 16, 2016 13:40
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Please pitch to me a rogue-like as someone who hates rogue-likes, and who only beat FTL by cheating.
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Aug 16, 2016 13:44
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:I got to the dumb boss in Downwell and killed it with the same move it killed me so I got the achievement but didn't unlock anything o r see the ending I like the idea of the boss, but the changing speed whenever you transition to the next phase is usually what killed my runs.
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Aug 16, 2016 14:09
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FactsAreUseless posted:Crypt of the Necrodancer is not only a neat rhythm game with a cool concept, it's one of the best dungeon crawlers I've ever played. The actual roguelike elements of it are really, really well-designed. Ehhhh. They're tightly executed, but simple. If you play Necrodancer as the Bard (who gets to completely ignore the rhythm element) it's sort of a dull game. Granted, with the rhythm elements the simplicity is a blessing because it gets pretty loving hard when you're expected to make an action four times per second.
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Aug 16, 2016 14:50
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It breaks my heart whenever I hear about people actually playing the game primarily as the Bard. If you really can't keep rhythm then it's a way to get something out of the game I suppose but it removes 90% of what's interesting and fun about it.
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Aug 16, 2016 14:51
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Please pitch to me a rogue-like as someone who hates rogue-likes, and who only beat FTL by cheating. Do you mean like an actual roguelike, because if so then look at dungeons of dredmor (and I don't ask to be pedantic but because you might be asking for one of two pretty much opposite things, not sure which). Dredmor has actual graphics and a good sense of humor which makes it way more palatable than the typical ASCII art fare. If you want a roguelite then nuclear throne for sure, and crypt of the necrodancer is very solid too. Faster than light, isaac and gungeon are all garbo RNGfests that should be avoided
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Aug 16, 2016 14:59
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RyokoTK posted:Ehhhh. They're tightly executed, but simple. If you play Necrodancer as the Bard (who gets to completely ignore the rhythm element) it's sort of a dull game.
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Aug 16, 2016 14:59
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Rogue Legacy is my favourite roguelike/lite, because it relies entirely on player skill and not just monster spawns or RNG nonsense - in addition, the game's central method of advancement is tied to death, so when you die it's not a bad thing, it means you can strengthen your guy and get better. Too many roguelikes are just "Oh you didn't get far enough to get anything worthwhile! Time to start from zero, all that progress is simply gone."
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Aug 16, 2016 15:10
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Rogue Legacy falls into that pitfall as well, doesn't it? Especially late game when the upgrades are really expensive.
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Aug 16, 2016 15:26
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RyokoTK posted:Rogue Legacy falls into that pitfall as well, doesn't it? Especially late game when the upgrades are really expensive. Yeah, but only late in the game - and even then, that's after you've got a shitload of upgrades and can make your way through a large portion of the game, and at that point the enemies aren't really getting stronger anymore so it's mostly up to player skill. And of course if you want, you can just take longer routes to your destination so that you make more money - also you can equip the armor that gives you bonus gold, if you're so inclined.
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Aug 16, 2016 15:37
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Spelunky technically fits into roguelites, and that's one of the best controlling platformers ever. Hard as gently caress though.
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Aug 16, 2016 17:00
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Please pitch to me a rogue-like as someone who hates rogue-likes, and who only beat FTL by cheating. I think I'm in the same boat as you, having maybe 30 minutes each in BoI and FTL and no patience for RNG fuckery, and I'm going to second Ziggurat. It's a fast-paced FPS with a bunch of neat weapons and plenty of chances to use them. It's the only roguelite I've been able to stomach long enough to beat the final boss. I've been eyeing Nuclear Throne for a while, and I might pull the trigger on it next time it's on sale. Rogue Legacy is okay, but I found that it eventually turned into a meat grinder because I couldn't get to the fourth boss, and wasn't getting enough money to upgrade myself. I can't really help you with traditional roguelikes, since that type of gameplay doesn't keep me interested enough to play for great lengths of time.
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Aug 16, 2016 17:01
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Binding of Isaac was pretty good, Rebirth was enjoyable, but then Afterbirth was absolute poo poo. All of the new bosses got a gigantic health bar (some even get damage resistance equal to your attack so that the fights are even more of a slog), the challenges are absolute garbage, and there was an unnecessary nerf for the Stopwatch, an item you get after getting the donation machines found in shops to 999. The item in question rarely shows up in shops, and costs 30 pennies, so sometimes even if you do see it, you won't be able to get it. It was one of the best items in the game, because it made every enemy (and enemy projectiles) slow, but with how it works now, you have to get hit for it to work. I feel like if you have an item that'd take hours upon hours of playtime to unlock, and with the mentioned RNG to even seeing it, that it has the right to be a "win" button if you can even get it. Nicalis doesn't agree, but then again, they hosed up publishing La Mulana for the Wii, so I'm surprised they're even getting work any more. If they ever do another game, it should be a collaboration with Chucklefish, I'd love to see that disaster.
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Aug 16, 2016 19:04
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My problem with where Isaac is is that there are so many loving items now and a lot of them don't really have an indication of why they do. I get that that's the pill gimmick, but like the tarot cards and 2/3 of the items have no immediately recognizable effect. I feel like I have to have a guide out just to see what I'm doing. It was fine when it first came out but there are so many layers of content now.
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Aug 16, 2016 19:40
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Along the side scrolling hack and slash of Rogue Legacy is Super House of Dead Ninja. Really really fun, pretty cheap Rouge like where you dash down through as many floors as you can killing enemies w/ your sword/main and your side thrown weapon, encountering bosses as well as you go on. It gets pretty hard but there are a ton of unlockables to give you more weapons, magic, health, speed, time, whatever, and they're portioned out at a satisfying rate as you play. It's got a cool a e s t h e t i c as well, and I'd say it's really worth the $5 or less you can usually get it for
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Aug 16, 2016 20:54
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Please pitch to me a rogue-like as someone who hates rogue-likes, and who only beat FTL by cheating. 20XX is Megaman X but with rogue-like elements. It is very fun because it is Megaman X. You can even play as not-X and not-Zero. The main paths through levels are fairly straightforward, the optional paths for upgrades get pretty romhacky though.
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Aug 16, 2016 22:33
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FactsAreUseless posted:Crypt of the Necrodancer is not only a neat rhythm game with a cool concept, it's one of the best dungeon crawlers I've ever played. The actual roguelike elements of it are really, really well-designed. Not to mention the soundtrack is loving amazing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqJfqIwpXZ8
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Aug 16, 2016 22:52
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The soundtrack is unquestionably the best part about Necrodancer. Hotline Miami is kinda the same way.
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Aug 16, 2016 23:07
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Serendipitously, Nuclear Throne is the headliner on the most recent Humble Bundle, so you can grab it (and a bunch of other good games) for $10.
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Aug 17, 2016 00:35
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