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Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!

AbrahamLincolnLog posted:

You can level mechanics by prying open doors with a makeshift crowbar. Prying doors has zero chance of breaking them, unlike windows, so you can just sit there and <a>ctivate -> door -> <c>lose -> door until Mechanics 2. :v:

Unless you're playing some gimmick like archer-only, or for roleplay, I can't think of a single reason to spend points on a skill.

i've found negotiation 2 to be helpful for a really bad day start because it tends to give you an 80%+ chance to convince your starting NPC to leave the burning building and get nuts with zombies instead of dying immediately

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GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013

Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.

Angry Diplomat posted:

Strength and Intelligence are absolutely worth investing in, because high Strength makes you more damaging with throwing, melee, and bows and lets you carry more (and I think escape grabs more easily), and high Intelligence makes learning skills faster (especially when reading books) and generally speeds the skill grind up a fair bit, plus I think it might reduce your chances of failing and/or wasting materials when crafting.

Nah, not really. I mean, most of the skills have what essentially amounts to a floor, based on the equipment and approach you're hoping to use, but advancing beyond that floor has relatively small returns. Sure, strength does more damage... but skill does more damage as well, and you're most in need of reliable character based damage in the early game where the benefits of the skill points far outweigh the benefits of the stats, and there's plenty of stuff you can do to boost strength later when you most need it, especially if you've invested a few points in the relevant skills...

quote:

A very strong character with the traits that increase carry weight and storage volume can fairly easily haul around an insane quantity of poo poo, which is very useful in the early game and a major quality of life improvement in the late game.
Or you can just grab a shopping cart, carry only what you need, or get a vehicle. The last bits a lot easier and less frustrating if you start with a pile of skill points already in that skill.

Equipment is more important than stats, and starting with skills let's you more reliably access and make use of high end equipment earlier without having to do a bunch of boring, time consuming grinding (which also keeps you in a fragile state for much longer at the same time)

quote:

If you're going to invest in a skill at character creation, I'd go with dodging. It produces an immediate impact on your survivability in a bad situation and it's a bitch to quickly train up from 0 unless you find a dance book.

Well at least we're agreed about dodging being good.

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!

GlyphGryph posted:

Nah, not really. I mean, most of the skills have what essentially amounts to a floor, based on the equipment and approach you're hoping to use, but advancing beyond that floor has relatively small returns. Sure, strength does more damage... but skill does more damage as well, and you're most in need of reliable character based damage in the early game where the benefits of the skill points far outweigh the benefits of the stats, and there's plenty of stuff you can do to boost strength later when you most need it, especially if you've invested a few points in the relevant skills...
could you go on about what exactly you can do to boost strength later, because the only things that come to mind are crap like hydraulic muscles from biomods (which has a prohibitive cost) and mutations (which we just finished talking about)

Doomsayer
Sep 2, 2008

I have no idea what I'm doing, but that's never been a problem before.

You're forgetting the most Cataclysm method of all: a SHITLOAD of drugs. If you're not methed out to the point that you can rip a zombie's face in half with one bare hand, you're not playing it right.

Or just use the "skills increase stats" mod I guess

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!
drugs are more of a gimmick to me than starting with skills. yeah, drugs are fun as hell in this game, but from a practical perspective the downers are really harsh and if you get addicted and need to sleep/wait it off it becomes a colossal pain in the dick.

Doomsayer
Sep 2, 2008

I have no idea what I'm doing, but that's never been a problem before.

I'm sorry that sounded like a solution other than the correct one which is MORE DRUGS

Shalebridge Cradle
Apr 23, 2008


Doomsayer posted:

You're forgetting the most Cataclysm method of all: a SHITLOAD of drugs. If you're not methed out to the point that you can rip a zombie's face in half with one bare hand, you're not playing it right.

Or just use the "skills increase stats" mod I guess

That actually brings up a question I've had about drugs. I keep finding "low grade" meth but is there actually high grade stuff in the game?

Uh just asking for a friend

Sage Grimm
Feb 18, 2013

Let's go explorin' little dude!

Doomsayer posted:

I'm sorry that sounded like a solution other than the correct one which is MORE DRUGS

Reminder of the Cataclysm LP and the Whitesnow character with his infinite doses of cocaine. Flamed out in the most post-apocalyptic way possible.

Also of the current character who's essentially a hobo with a constant need for alcohol.

Angry Diplomat
Nov 7, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging
Shopping carts are useful but require a bit more babysitting than "be swole and have deep pockets," and the latter method remains useful when passing between Z-levels, passing over furniture or terrain features of literally any kind, or crowbarring open windows to climb into houses from the rear at night for tactical espionage burgling. Plus the latter method can ALSO grab a shopping cart for functionally infinite practical storage in basically any situation, and remains a useful sanity-saver well into the bionic supermutant solar survivormobile stage of the game. It's good, sorry :colbert:

Also once you know how to semi-reliably survive the early game, you shouldn't really need any starting skills except for challenge scenarios.

Coolguye posted:

could you go on about what exactly you can do to boost strength later, because the only things that come to mind are crap like hydraulic muscles from biomods (which has a prohibitive cost) and mutations (which we just finished talking about)

Other than bionics, mutations, and just constantly taking a poo poo-ton of drugs, your options for in-game stat increases are basically a) permanently-on UPS MP3 player with a ton of downloaded music off SD cards so that you're perpetually elated, b) editing your save file, and c) lol get hosed funhaver, enjoy your lovely stats for the rest of forever

Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Aug 10, 2016

Artificer
Apr 8, 2010

You're going to try ponies and you're. Going. To. LOVE. ME!!

ro5s posted:

I've always liked that the optimal survivor for the end of the world is a genius with the body of Adonis, who has no idea how to use the internet of bake a potato.

Fortunately there are books that will teach you how to bake a potato even after the apocalypse.

Leal
Oct 2, 2009
I like to embark with a few points in driving so my character isn't a complete loving moron and can do basic things like "Keep a car going 10 down a completely empty street straight". There is zero reason for me to lose control of my car driving slower then a granny without turning the vehicle, I mean car wheels automatically turn to neutral position if you let them go so that means my character is randomly deciding to jerk the wheel for no reason.

AbrahamLincolnLog
Oct 1, 2014

Note to self: This one's the shitty one
I've literally never seen that happen even with 0 driving skill.

Leal
Oct 2, 2009
Maybe that was just something in earlier versions of the game and I've been traumatized by it and keep putting points in driving long after it stopped being an issue.

esquilax
Jan 3, 2003

AbrahamLincolnLog posted:

I've literally never seen that happen even with 0 driving skill.

I've seen it all the time? You're going in a straight line then the vehicle jerks to one side. If you're going fast or holding down 5 then you can totally crash into things. Unless they changed it, it shuts off at 4 skill I think.

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!
if you see 'you fumble with the (vehicle)'s controls' then that means your heading has changed due to lack of skill. it happens 25% less often per level of skill, which means, yes, it stops happening entirely at 4.

AbrahamLincolnLog
Oct 1, 2014

Note to self: This one's the shitty one
Uh, okay. I've been playing on the latest experimentals for almost two months now and literally never seen that happen once. :shrug:

Solid Poopsnake
Mar 27, 2010

by Nyc_Tattoo
Nap Ghost

AbrahamLincolnLog posted:

Uh, okay. I've been playing on the latest experimentals for almost two months now and literally never seen that happen once. :shrug:

I just grabbed the latest and it still happens for me? :shrug:

Anyway, my contribution to stats vs. skills is that I StatsThroughSkills. I take Night Vision, Packmule, whatever gives me Pentjak Silat, and then spend the rest on skills. Silat helps with the cudgel, the makeshift machete, and the survivor machete. Sometimes I also take fast learner and fast reader because gently caress it

Roobanguy
May 31, 2011

Angry Diplomat posted:

a) permanently-on UPS MP3 player with a ton of downloaded music off SD cards so that you're perpetually elated

Wait, what? You can add music to MP3 players?

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

AbrahamLincolnLog posted:

You can level mechanics by prying open doors with a makeshift crowbar. Prying doors has zero chance of breaking them, unlike windows, so you can just sit there and <a>ctivate -> door -> <c>lose -> door until Mechanics 2. :v:

Unless you're playing some gimmick like archer-only, or for roleplay, I can't think of a single reason to spend points on a skill.

You can grind even faster by making a bunch of makeshift lockpicks (also useful for grinding fabrication up to 1), then just spamming them on a locked door. One of the recent experimentals seems to have nerfed lockpicking at mechanics 0, so you'll try literally 50+ times on a single door. I got up to like mechanics 0/85ish% with a stack of 10 before I broke the whole stack.

goatsestretchgoals fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Aug 11, 2016

Angry Diplomat
Nov 7, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

Roobanguy posted:

Wait, what? You can add music to MP3 players?

Yeah, unless it was taken out. You need one of those pocket PC things that can download data from SD cards. Once in a while you'll download some songs. I can't remember whether you have to use an MP3 player with the pocket PC somehow, but I know you can build a bigger library of music to increase the morale bonus the MP3 player caps out at with extended listening. I had something like +60-+80 morale from a UPS MP3 player on a UPS bionic equipped Robocop who listened to music literally 24/7 forever while shotgunning Atomic Coffee and blowing zombies the gently caress up with a fusion laser rifle

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!
I like to think that you just keep getting more and more of the Payday 2 soundtrack and you keep blasting all the loud assault themes

Ms Adequate
Oct 30, 2011

Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling



I think vehicle control or loss thereof is modified by what you're actually driving. I was peeling around a city on multiple raids in a cop car I found with basically zero issues even at 0/1/2 driving, but after I upgraded it (i.e. bolted a shitton of rams and armor onto it) it became prone to sliding around the place. Could be the K Friction rating or something, or just the mass, or mass relative to engine, I dunno.

Any guess who has cybernetically enhanced tentacle arms :getin:

AbrahamLincolnLog
Oct 1, 2014

Note to self: This one's the shitty one
That must be it. I'm still at a point where I've yet to find a welder in any game, and I've literally never had any issue driving in un-modified cars.

Unrelated question: are there any better reach attack weapons than the steel/knife spear? The wiki doesn't seem to have much info.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...

AbrahamLincolnLog posted:

That must be it. I'm still at a point where I've yet to find a welder in any game, and I've literally never had any issue driving in un-modified cars.

Unrelated question: are there any better reach attack weapons than the steel/knife spear? The wiki doesn't seem to have much info.

Item browser is a godsend. Clicking on development at the top will take you to the latest experimental build list of reach attack weapons too.

e: Some weird things are on the stable list, the development listing is much more accurate so I'm altering the link.

Ignatius M. Meen fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Aug 11, 2016

AbrahamLincolnLog
Oct 1, 2014

Note to self: This one's the shitty one
That's perfect! Thanks.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin

Sage Grimm posted:

Reminder of the Cataclysm LP and the Whitesnow character with his infinite doses of cocaine. Flamed out in the most post-apocalyptic way possible.

Also of the current character who's essentially a hobo with a constant need for alcohol.

I knew there was something I was forgetting.

nftyw
Dec 27, 2006

It is a game... where you will put your life on the line.
Lipstick Apathy
Not sure if it got nerfed yet but the bullwhip had a range attack that stunned enemies, which meant that they stumbled around helplessly for a bit while you could fire arrows into them. Worked great if you had a fence to hide behind and helped train melee very quickly.

Ms Adequate
Oct 30, 2011

Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling



I had a deathmobile and great weapons and armor, I was on day 87 and I had a couple of pretty kickass bros with me, and I loving pressed the wrong button and walked into a door instead of peeking, the turret I suspected was on the other side chewed me up immediately.

Is there a support group for roguelike players? :smithicide:

AbrahamLincolnLog
Oct 1, 2014

Note to self: This one's the shitty one
Whoever mentioned taking the dancer class and then another two points in dodge, loving amazing. Did that, so four starting dodge, plus Self-Defense Classes (Ninjutsu), Light Step, Night Vision. I can silently infiltrate virtually anything, and even when I do get into a fight, I make no sound, and nail knuckles pretty much chews up low level zombies that have a near zero chance of hitting me.

This is incredibly fun.

Angry Diplomat
Nov 7, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging
Has anyone else found the Military Base set piece on the world map? I thought it would be another NPC hub like the survivor centre, but that is not at all what I found in, and beneath, it :stare:

AbrahamLincolnLog posted:

Whoever mentioned taking the dancer class and then another two points in dodge, loving amazing. Did that, so four starting dodge, plus Self-Defense Classes (Ninjutsu), Light Step, Night Vision. I can silently infiltrate virtually anything, and even when I do get into a fight, I make no sound, and nail knuckles pretty much chews up low level zombies that have a near zero chance of hitting me.

This is incredibly fun.

If you want to try something goofy and fun, try making a really really strong industrial cyborg (or whatever one starts with hydraulic muscles) with points in unarmed and the fighting style that enhances Strength's damage contribution and gives a bonus against larger enemies (is it Krav Maga? Whichever one gives that awesomely crazy flying knee move). Then just run around the city roundhousing zombies through windows and using your hydraulic muscles to hit Hulks so hard that they die and then their flying corpses slam into the zombies behind them, who also die.

Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Aug 14, 2016

Ms Adequate
Oct 30, 2011

Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling



What's the recommendation for dealing with turrets? I have a couple on a road near my motel, I can avoid them but it's a pain. There are also some milspec turrets at a military outpost I wouldn't mind raiding. Do I just need to find a sniper rifle and git gud with it?

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

Mister Adequate posted:

What's the recommendation for dealing with turrets? I have a couple on a road near my motel, I can avoid them but it's a pain. There are also some milspec turrets at a military outpost I wouldn't mind raiding. Do I just need to find a sniper rifle and git gud with it?

Try fighting at night. Stay just out of their light radius and shoot. You're not in a hurry so don't just blaze away. Take precise shots, and wait between shots to dissipate recoil.
Any kind of rifle should be able to do it like this, or even a good bow.

Note: Advice may be several versions out of date. Responsibility not accepted if it gets you killed.

The Lone Badger fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Aug 15, 2016

Leal
Oct 2, 2009
This is going to be lame but drag a bunch of zombies to them, the turrets don't have infinite ammo. You might be able to find some EMP grenades which can work, some turrets (provided my only experience is the 9mm machine gun ones) have shorter range then your throwing range.

AbrahamLincolnLog
Oct 1, 2014

Note to self: This one's the shitty one
EMP grenades are by far the best way. One shot, from distance. Disables them, so you can pick them up, fill them with ammo, and place them back down; they recognize you as friendly and will mow down the dead.

nftyw
Dec 27, 2006

It is a game... where you will put your life on the line.
Lipstick Apathy
If you can find a Robotics book and can grind electronics and computer skill, and find hackPRO software on a usb drive and a laptop computer, you can gather up some stuff and make a control laptop and remotely program hostile turrets to be friendly, walk up to them, turn them off, loot their ammo and then gut them for parts or use them as a lamp for your base. This is nice because at least in stable, you can load a thousand batteries in one and go wild in laboratories.

Ms Adequate
Oct 30, 2011

Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling



Thanks for all the advice! I'll try shooting them for now but I'm definitely keeping an eye out for the stuff needed to hack, that sounds like good poo poo right there.

Leal posted:

This is going to be lame but drag a bunch of zombies to them, the turrets don't have infinite ammo. You might be able to find some EMP grenades which can work, some turrets (provided my only experience is the 9mm machine gun ones) have shorter range then your throwing range.

That's my usual tactic and it has worked for me before, but all the turrets I'm currently dealing with are in the middle of nowhere and kiting any meaningful number of zombies would take a stupid amount of time, time in which I am certain fifty six zombie meese will come out of the woods and murder me. Almost died hiking back overland from a FEMA camp last (in-game) night due to a loving zombie horse :gonk:

Dirk the Average
Feb 7, 2012

"This may have been a mistake."
You can also wear heavy armor and stand at maximum range from the turret at night. It's unlikely to kill you in one salvo, and you can always back up and heal. It's incredibly risky, but with sufficient armor, it usually works.

King Doom
Dec 1, 2004
I am on the Internet.
I've had success dealing with turrets by building a giant U shape on the front of my deathmobile, driving up so it fits around them and blocks them and then getting out and cutting the U part off the truck and leaving it there. Not exactly the quickest way to do it, but potentially the safest.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

King Doom posted:

I've had success dealing with turrets by building a giant U shape on the front of my deathmobile, driving up so it fits around them and blocks them and then getting out and cutting the U part off the truck and leaving it there. Not exactly the quickest way to do it, but potentially the safest.

If you're going to go that far then just keep moving and run the turret over. They're not durable, being rammed with a deathmobile will take them out zero problem.

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Suspect Bucket
Jan 15, 2012

SHRIMPDOR WAS A MAN
I mean, HE WAS A SHRIMP MAN
er, maybe also A DRAGON
or possibly
A MINOR LEAGUE BASEBALL TEAM
BUT HE WAS STILL
SHRIMPDOR
Wrong thread, drat you mobile.

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