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ImpAtom posted:In that case I think it's more that Conroy is good for a very specific kind of Batman. He is (more or less) compassionate-sounding. He can get angry or serious but when he does it is because someone has done something unforgivable rather than because it is his default state. He did JLU dick Batman fairly well. I do think it has more to do with a lack of Andrea Romano. I mean, I just realized a couple weeks ago that she was the voice director for Legend of Korra which answered so many questions on how the readings of some seriously lovely character dynamics can be so well done. You do have a point, though, about Conroy's niche.
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Aug 7, 2016 19:05
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I think Conroy has a lot of range, but they really really should have considering getting West in for The Killing Joke. I just finished it by the way. It's such a huge mess although I dislike the Babs stuff a lot more watching it. It's a train wreck, but its intentions are very clear. It's still a mess. The biggest bummer is that Hamill knocks it out of the park. His pre-Joker is really great, and honestly they should have done more with it.
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Aug 7, 2016 20:42
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Yeah, if someone wanted to "pad out" The Killing Joke because they're a dumb rear end in a top hat who thinks an animated film needs to be a certain length for people to feel like they got their money's worth, you'd think they would've added more down-on-his-luck comedian Joker scenes instead of what they added.
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Aug 7, 2016 23:16
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I don't disagree because what they added was a dumpster fire, but how much more is there to do with that? Like 30 minutes of even more bad poo poo happening to Joker?
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Aug 7, 2016 23:45
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Hey, I don't know. Maybe more scenes of him being normal before things go bad. Maybe an extremely painful extended scene of him bombing on stage.
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Aug 7, 2016 23:47
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A fifteen minute bad stand up act would've been dope.
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Aug 8, 2016 00:06
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Lurdiak posted:Yeah, if someone wanted to "pad out" The Killing Joke because they're a dumb rear end in a top hat who thinks an animated film needs to be a certain length for people to feel like they got their money's worth, you'd think they would've added more down-on-his-luck comedian Joker scenes instead of what they added. The thing is that the actual Killing Joke adaptation is incredibly stilted in places because they're straight adapting what's on the page. Like the moment where the Joker snaps and realizes what's happened to him really doesn't have much gravitas to it. Like show him trying to rub it off, getting more desperate, clawing at his face, realizing what's happened to himself. Have him get desperate and start to crack. Have the laugh start small and get big. The ending moment itself is incredibly lacking as well. Conroy and Hamill do a good job, but the voice direction was way off. The Joker should be caught in a bad belly laugh, crying laughing, like he can't control himself and Batman just gets caught up in it. Like that initial "Heh" should be really small and build up. Hamill knocks it out of the park when he has that lucid moment and tells Batman that he's too far gone.
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Aug 8, 2016 01:16
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Most of the dialogue sounds stupid as hell when read out loud. You can tell how much trouble they had fitting all those words to the actions on the images once they had to be matched together temporally. It was definitely written for the page and to be read by a viewer. And everyone sounds manic as gently caress spilling out all that dialogue, especially Hamill.
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Aug 9, 2016 00:04
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And for something that might actually be Mark's performance, he never gets a chance to do his trademark Joker thing where he gets serious and talks to himself in a low, considering voice before just snapping up into crazy excited Joker.
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Aug 9, 2016 11:52
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I'm watching Young Justice right now, and I'm on the episode with the Injustice League, and wow is Brent Spiner a poor choice for Joker. I'd heard it about it, but wow is hearing it a completely different experience. Although looking at his IMDB he's going to be Riddler in Justice League Action? That seems like a much better choice. Other than that though, so far I'm largely enjoying it, although I'm not looking forward to that timeskip for season 2.
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Aug 14, 2016 08:09
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Young Justice season one is really superb. The characters are really rich, developed really well, and there are some episodes that are genuinely heart-wrenching to watch. I actually watched the Joker episode you mention first, wrote it off as not for me, then went back later at the insistence of a friend and watched from the start. To anyone on the fence, the whole season works much better watched as a whole. You can't really watch individual episodes at random in the same way as you can with B:TAS or JLU - the whole thing is one big ongoing plot with characters that change and grow on a per-episode basis. It's very satisfying, and probably the most successful a DC cartoon has ever been in doing something like that. Sadly though, I think season two overreaches in a big way. The timeskip is the least of its problems: it uses that timeskip to introduce like six or seven new characters, most of whom are never developed at all beyond "here's their name and their powers", and it's a tragic shame because you get excited about like, "oh cool, Batgirl is in the show now!" but then it turns out she has no personality, motivation, or character arc. Same goes for characters like Nightwing, Wonder Girl, Tim Drake, etc. It's a very stark contrast from the attentive character writing of the first season.
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Aug 14, 2016 14:06
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Also, they told the story of what happens during the timeskip, much of which ends up being plot-important to season two, in a tie-in game for the Wii. It's just a bad look all around.
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Aug 14, 2016 14:07
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I don't get why they thought that video game would be the best way to tell that story. Looking at it, Nightwing is in the game, so it can't even be in the middle very much.
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Aug 14, 2016 15:13
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Pure speculation, but maybe it was a marketing thing? Famously, executives around the show were worried that boys weren't buying toys. Maybe they thought they'd buy a game instead.
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Aug 14, 2016 15:19
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The game also got delayed for a very long time, it was supposed to come out between the two seasons but wasn't actually released until after the show had been cancelled. There were also supposed to be companion comics running throughout season 2 to focus on some of the characters and fill in gaps, but they were cancelled too. I feel like it would have worked better if they'd released this stuff as smaller mobile games or digital first $.99 comics but it was really a few years early for those things to be commonplace. I really liked Young Justice and the universe they set up and it's pretty frustrating we only got to see some of it.
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Aug 14, 2016 15:38
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I wish we could've kept that version of Batman. I'd read his comic/watch his show/play his game. As long as he brought the kids and all that.
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Aug 14, 2016 16:09
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TheThirst posted:The game also got delayed for a very long time, it was supposed to come out between the two seasons but wasn't actually released until after the show had been cancelled. There were also supposed to be companion comics running throughout season 2 to focus on some of the characters and fill in gaps, but they were cancelled too. I feel like it would have worked better if they'd released this stuff as smaller mobile games or digital first $.99 comics but it was really a few years early for those things to be commonplace. I really liked Young Justice and the universe they set up and it's pretty frustrating we only got to see some of it. Don't forget that the development team went on record saying that if the game was a success, then they would make another game as the fabled third season of the show.
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Aug 14, 2016 16:19
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Don't forget that the development team went on record saying that if the game was a success, then they would make another game as the fabled third season of the show. And this was said at launch, trying so hard to wring out some cash from gullible kids.  Did the game actually tell the story or whatever? I've never seen a human speak about it beyond "wow this is a bad dumb diablo clone sorta, with sub-PS2 problems"
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Aug 14, 2016 16:27
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Technically, it told the story. There were cutscenes. It just didn't tell it very well, and the cutscenes were Warcraft III-esque "two character models run cycle into place and talk at each other".
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Aug 14, 2016 16:52
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SonicRulez posted:I don't get why they thought that video game would be the best way to tell that story. Looking at it, Nightwing is in the game, so it can't even be in the middle very much. The entire show was basically murdered by marketing and execs worried about merchandising.
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Aug 14, 2016 17:13
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The ridiculous seven season plan probably had something to do as well.
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Aug 14, 2016 18:51
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Seven seasons? Yowza. Speaking seriously, I don't know if the issues with Season 2 were caused by executive fiddling, but Season 2 had issues in a big way that would have made me kind of leery of the show continuing anyway. Like, there were some great moments in S2 - the stuff with Blue Beetle, Artemis, Black Manta, Sportsmaster - but a lot of it was very, shockingly weak compared to the tightly-written strength of S1 (I'm looking at you, Arsenal and Lagoon Boy and the god drat Kroliteans). Hard to say if S3 would have been worse or better. Anyone who hasn't should check out Young Justice season one, though. It's legitimately fantastic and probably doesn't get enough love.
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Aug 14, 2016 18:59
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ArmyOfMidgets posted:The ridiculous seven season plan probably had something to do as well. The general consensus is that both YJ and GL:TAS were victim of the failure of the GL movie since it took a toll on merchandising partners (YJ having some notoriously lovely toys didn't help either) CN moving on from action shows and focusing into comedy didn't help either.
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Aug 14, 2016 18:59
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Android Blues posted:Seven seasons? Yowza. Well looking at the given that YJ had issues with selling toys, it seems to me that the point of a time skip with a new cast and a tie in video game meant to bridge the gap is to sell other things, and is not the kind of thing that TV writers would come up with. If these guys were passionate enough to plan out years of stories, I don't see them going, "and then we just get rid of the old cast and make people buy a video game that we farm out to some lovely company if they want this part of the our story, then we can have all these new characters who we won't have time to develop."
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Aug 14, 2016 19:05
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Greg Weissman is all about the long game, and to be fair he's mostly good at it. Spectacular Spider-Man hurts because it could've had a clean ending, but instead plants hooks for stuff that will never come. And there's Gargoyles Season 3. I'd really love to see him be able to actually follow through with something.
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Aug 14, 2016 20:29
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Yeah, that's true, I know a lot of kids' action figures sales practises rely on phasing out old characters for new. In light of that, the suddenly massively bloated, underdeveloped cast in S2 might make a bit more sense.
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Aug 14, 2016 20:30
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Ideally I would like to see every creator get their entire vision out because then the story can succeed or fail based solely on its worth. However, I would also like creators to be conscientious of the fact that they are never allowed that kind of freedom and should probably compensate for it. The Spider-Man 3 principle if you will.
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Aug 14, 2016 20:39
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Android Blues posted:Sadly though, I think season two overreaches in a big way. The timeskip is the least of its problems: it uses that timeskip to introduce like six or seven new characters, most of whom are never developed at all beyond "here's their name and their powers", and it's a tragic shame because you get excited about like, "oh cool, Batgirl is in the show now!" but then it turns out she has no personality, motivation, or character arc. Same goes for characters like Nightwing, Wonder Girl, Tim Drake, etc. It's a very stark contrast from the attentive character writing of the first season.
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Aug 14, 2016 21:09
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Kurzon posted:A curious thing about Season 2 of Young Justice is the plot device it uses to get the Justice League away from Earth for the whole season. The Light mind-controlled the League and had them wreck poo poo up on Rimbor so that they'd get arrested - why not just command them to fly into the Sun? The Leaguers then turn themselves in to the Rimbor authorities, despite it being common knowledge that the Rimbor court system is openly and proudly corrupt. That Green Lantern would surrender himself to a lesser authority was also weird. The other weird thing was why none of the kid superheroes tried to do a background check on the Reach. Like maybe contact the Green Lanterns, or just stop and ask Mongul what he meant when he implied the Reach had bad intentions. All went according to plan. AKA, a Darkseid did it.
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Aug 14, 2016 23:14
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:The general consensus is that both YJ and GL:TAS were victim of the failure of the GL movie since it took a toll on merchandising partners (YJ having some notoriously lovely toys didn't help either)
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Aug 16, 2016 00:36
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As good as Weissmann can be, he tends to overdo it with the world building, to the detriment of the actual plot. The world tour in Gargoyles is way too long and basically shelves Lexington, Broadway and Brooklyn for a huge part of the series to establish a bunch of spin-off that never came to be anyway.
e X fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Aug 16, 2016 |
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Aug 16, 2016 14:27
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e X posted:As good as Weissmann kann be, he tends to overdue it with the world building,  Phone posting, huh.
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Aug 16, 2016 16:43
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Lurdiak posted:
Just posting in two different languages. e X fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Aug 16, 2016 |
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Aug 16, 2016 16:44
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Holy poo poo, DC just announced an animated Batman '66 movie called Return Of The Caped Crusaders with Adam West, Burt Ward and July Newmar doing voices. It comes out October 11
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Aug 17, 2016 17:25
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I hope it looks like the cheap faux-anime all their current animated movies do!
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Aug 17, 2016 17:27
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Dacap posted:Holy poo poo, DC just announced an animated Batman '66 movie called Return Of The Caped Crusaders with Adam West, Burt Ward and July Newmar doing voices. It comes out October 11 There is a quick trailer for it here : http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-cast-of-batman-66-returns-for-a-new-animated-movie-1785400516
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Aug 17, 2016 19:00
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Wow upwards of THREE frames of animation per second!
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Aug 17, 2016 19:07
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Adam West sounds like he's phoning it in.
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Aug 17, 2016 19:21
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TFRazorsaw posted:Adam West sounds like he's Bat-phoning it in.
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Aug 17, 2016 19:23
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Adam West is almost 90 years old. He sounds perfectly fine for a 90 year old trying to put on a convincing performance of an action hero 60 years younger than him.
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Aug 17, 2016 20:35
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