|
Hasn't that article been dismissed as bullshit and contradicted by other Microsoft employees? If your own employees and partners all have to caveat answers to licensing questions then maybe you have made things far too complicated 
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 17:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 16, 2024 14:41 |
|
|
Nuclearmonkee posted:loving lol they didn't even pull out that second bit of the question. At least it gives an honest answer! They should have replied with just yes. I mean they kinda did that anyway.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 17:12
|
|
|
Thanks Ants posted:Hasn't that article been dismissed as bullshit and contradicted by other Microsoft employees?
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 17:38
|
|
|
Docjowles posted:DevOps This seems like a good time to ask about my situation. I've been working in IT for about 5 years now. Started on help desk, now I'm doing things like server and e-mail migration/deployment. When I decided I wanted to have a career in IT the thought process I went through was that it would be cool to do scripting and automation. The broad idea of being a SysAdmin. When I tell people this they always reply that what I want to do is DevOps. Problem is, I don't really know what that means. Sure, I get the philosophy behind it. I read The Phoenix Project. How the hell does it apply to me though, and how would I shift over into it?
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 17:41
|
|
|
anthonypants posted:If they have, I haven't seen it. There wasn't a blog post about it but a lot of assertions are made in that post that aren't reflected by the reality of the license agreements, and if you get an MS licensing partner to answer questions then they contradict the blog post. Unfortunately it still comes up when people look for information about CALs, and some resellers will get lazy and just reference it because it means they sell more product. None of the MS licensing documentation makes any reference to devices grabbing DHCP leases, they all talk in terms of users using devices. And users are employees or contractors, not a visiting salesman wanting to jump onto your guest Wi-Fi. The use cases for device CALs are so limited and the majority of organisations aren't going to be using that licensing model, so it avoids a lot of those hassles anyway. Thanks Ants fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Aug 28, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 17:44
|
|
|
We moved a client from Skype to Skype for Business and it has been an absolute nightmare. Connecting from Skype for Business to external consumer Skype users just straight up doesn't work 75% of the time. God damnit Microsoft
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 18:00
|
|
|
We use device CALs for our point of sales systems since they're used by many users, most of whom don't have domain accounts. That's about the only scenario I can think of.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 19:15
|
|
|
snackcakes posted:This seems like a good time to ask about my situation. I've been working in IT for about 5 years now. Started on help desk, now I'm doing things like server and e-mail migration/deployment. No one here knows what devops is either.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 19:47
|
|
|
fartt
Chickenwalker fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Sep 23, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 20:03
|
|
|
Chickenwalker posted:Thanks for this. Second part of my question is: is WDS garbage? I've been using some open-source thing some guy threw together for my imaging server for a while now and it's great, but it's only great as long as you never need to update the images. Note that you need a Windows Server CAL for WDS whether you intend to hook the computer up to a domain or not. (This is mostly relevant for OEM use cases, point-of-sale systems, etc.).
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 20:21
|
|
|
The Fool posted:No one here knows what devops is either. Just another in the long line of nonsense buzzwords. Bin it with the other cyber cloud Web 3.0 disruptive game changers. My only observed example of "devops" consisted of giving developers increased control/admin access over their infra which always works out as well as you expect.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 20:23
|
|
|
Nuclearmonkee posted:My only observed example of "devops" consisted of giving developers increased control/admin access over their infra which always works out as well as you expect.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 20:24
|
|
|
Chickenwalker posted:Thanks for this. Second part of my question is: is WDS garbage? I've been using some open-source thing some guy threw together for my imaging server for a while now and it's great, but it's only great as long as you never need to update the images.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 20:31
|
|
|
Vulture Culture posted:It pissed off the company BOFH but they were able to deliver features into the hands of users and keep the company afloat? They hosed with prod over a series of months until they eventually brought down a a system which interfaced between customer orders and manufacturing in the middle of the day, which screwed up the production schedule for a few weeks and cost a lot of money. After that sanity was restored and a proper dev to production life cycle was established with superfluous things like "rollback plans" "code review" and "notification of stakeholders". The whole thing started because our dba was an rear end in a top hat and was generally hell to work with. He looooved telling people no. We ended up putting in octopus deploy which largely removed him from everything but code review in the end. It was a lovely place to work and I'm glad I'm not there anymore.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 20:49
|
|
|
Sounds like your company didn't actually do devops, they just did a really lovely thing instead and called it devops?
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 20:56
|
|
|
NippleFloss posted:Sounds like your company didn't actually do devops, they just did a really lovely thing instead and called it devops? In my limited bubble the only devops outcomes I've seen or heard of first hand could be described exactly like that. The twisted retarded version of agile software development and devops.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 21:03
|
|
|
Gonna start a company, give every single person, from the architects to the housekeepers domain admin rights. It's DevOps.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 21:03
|
|
|
Why limit the domain admin rights to employees? You don't want to limit the potential of your customers either.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 21:11
|
|
|
Nuclearmonkee posted:In my limited bubble the only devops outcomes I've seen or heard of first hand could be described exactly like that. Well yea, but that's because those shops are basically a cargo cult of good IT practices. They try to ape the form without an understanding of the means or methods. That doesn't mean devops is a meaningless buzzword, just that a lot of the people talking about it don't actually know what they're talking about.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 21:15
|
|
|
NippleFloss posted:That doesn't mean devops is a meaningless buzzword, just that a lot of the people talking about it don't actually know what they're talking about. You just defined what a buzzword is.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 21:24
|
|
|
Nuclearmonkee posted:You just defined what a buzzword is. A buzzword is not meaningless or nonsense by necessity. Devops is a buzzword because it is popular jargon, but it also means something. YOLOsubmarine fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Aug 29, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 21:28
|
|
|
snackcakes posted:This seems like a good time to ask about my situation. I've been working in IT for about 5 years now. Started on help desk, now I'm doing things like server and e-mail migration/deployment. I think maybe what they're trying to tell you is that you want to get into operations, as opposed to traditional corporate IT. Like most things in tech, I don't think there's an agreed upon, standard definition of ops. But I'd basically call it IT where your "customers" are the company's internal development teams, and the product you're supporting is the software they write in-house. So you're not generally resetting passwords and operating the Exchange server. You're helping them build and operate the server infrastructure where the apps the company writes and sells run. This type of environment is, to me, vastly more interesting and rewarding than corporate IT. Your job title may well still be sysadmin or whatever. But the type of challenges and techniques you'll encounter are vastly different.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 02:20
|
|
|
Docjowles posted:This type of environment is, to me, vastly more interesting and rewarding than corporate IT. Your job title may well still be sysadmin or whatever. But the type of challenges and techniques you'll encounter are vastly different.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 03:45
|
|
|
Nuclearmonkee posted:Just another in the long line of nonsense buzzwords. Bin it with the other cyber cloud Web 3.0 disruptive game changers. This actually seems to be a pretty common stumbling block within many IT organizations- different people having different working definitions for shared terms. It is especially true when IT orgs are restructuring and bringing in talent from varied backgrounds/companies. It's a good practice to take steps to periodically ensure that everyone is on the same page in this regard, from a high level within different areas throughout the org.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 03:55
|
|
|
adorai posted:I think that probably has to do with scale. In your typical enterprise IT, you are probably expected to do a limited number of things. That may also be true in a typical ops role. In a devops role, you probably have much greater authority to do 'things'. I would say a smaller enterprise is probably going to be just as exciting and fun because you also have a lot or latitude there.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 04:34
|
|
|
Vulture Culture posted:Most jobs with the word "DevOps" in the title are basically glorified Jenkins babysitters.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 04:40
|
|
|
I've interviewed for 2 DevOps roles. One was for a mid sized energy company that had an actual, real life, hella fast agile tempo in a .net environment that required DevOps to sort through tons of SCOM (iirc) reports to hunt down errors from the latest sprint. The other was for a boutique software company that describes their devs as artisans and the interview was extremely awkward and then they asked me to automate the provisioning of a three-tier web stack. Haven't gotten around to starting on doing that yet, but it seemed extremely goddamn legit and the people who interviewed me seemed really smart. I had a job on an application development team that wasn't referred to at all as DevOps. Lots of meetings and coordinating with the IT department on this that and the other thing, did things like worked to get app-only calls through Azure AD/O365 SharePoint to work for a dev of ours. Troubleshot IIS issues where applicable, most everything was heavily siloed though. Made me think maybe I could get into DevOps and enjoy it. Then I had that interview at the software company that asked me to code stuff and was like, Christ I am nowhere near this level cause I don't even know where to start doing what they asked me to do.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 05:08
|
|
|
adorai posted:so that's a +1 to devops being a dumbass buzzword? Fudge posted:company that describes their devs as artisans and the interview was extremely awkward
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 05:33
|
|
|
Vulture Culture posted:People have hosed up the entire connotation of DevOps so badly that I'm frankly all in favor of going back to "Agile operations" like it's 2007 No matter what words you pick eventually it will become popular enough that CIOs and CTOs will begin intoning it like a magical incantation and every job posting will include it in the title.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 05:39
|
|
Vulture Culture posted:
Calling it an interview is probably a stretch too. They were like 'we just wanted to get to know you! Here's our kata.' I was kinda like what the hell your recruiter had my resume I didn't list anything even approximating what you're asking me to do here. I'm gonna do it tho cause I have a deep existentsial dread about being a Windows/network administrator guy. Someday the cloud is going to take all the jobs. Luckily I'll have pivoted into being a lumbersexual software craftsman.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 05:46
|
|
|
Fudge posted:Here's our kata.' I'm almost too afraid to ask, but what is a kata in this context?
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 07:41
|
|
|
Welcome to my dojo
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 07:43
|
|
Che Delilas posted:I'm almost too afraid to ask, but what is a kata in this context? Automating deployment of a three tier web application stack OR code a CI tool. I don't know if they cribbed the term from lean or karate.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 12:07
|
|
|
Che Delilas posted:I'm almost too afraid to ask, but what is a kata in this context? People who are way too into the Lean process pretend that using common Japanese words will help them be more like Toyota. (It just makes everyone look at them like they eat lead paint.)
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 12:37
|
|
|
This is amazing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 12:39
|
|
|
NippleFloss posted:No matter what words you pick eventually it will become popular enough that CIOs and CTOs will
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 15:10
|
|
|
Fudge posted:Calling it an interview is probably a stretch too. They were like 'we just wanted to get to know you! Here's our kata.' I was kinda like what the hell your recruiter had my resume I didn't list anything even approximating what you're asking me to do here. Yeah if you are in infrastructure you better be learning how to virtualize and automate all the things, unless you are OK with being the poo poo on IT janitor at a smallish place since I don't think those jobs will be going out of style anytime soon. Everyone needs to have a little lumbersexual software craftsman in them.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 16:01
|
|
|
Stumbled upon this today  any time travelers here?quote:Requirements:
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 18:15
|
|
|
When it comes to MS CALs I wish they'd just use something simple, like how tall a stack of $100s would take care of everything. "Yes, Mr. Trauma, your environment requires a 4.5 inch stack annually."
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 18:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 16, 2024 14:41 |
|
|
Dick Trauma posted:When it comes to MS CALs I wish they'd just use something simple, like how tall a stack of $100s would take care of everything. "Yes, Mr. Trauma, your environment requires a 4.5 inch stack annually." Our annual MSFT spend would be a stack of 100's 43 feet tall 
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 18:53
|
|